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Beany

Texas and the Obama takeover

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.ZZ.

Because Aztek, certain mindsets are simply obsessed with race. Even if it were only white people that in no way equates to a white power movement.

Kari, you're exhausting my like quota for the day, and many others too. You're all leaving me with little to say.

Yamato, awesome video. Makes me want to try it.

England did not grant US anything, nor did it matter if they did. We declared our independence. Frankly, we were tired of giving a crap what England thought. Also, I'd consider the formation of America a win on all fronts. Perhaps everyone did tire of the warring, not sure tbh, but all the goals on our end were achieved. That's a win.

Secession does not have to be a bloody war. The only ones who would create that reality is the very government that Beany is demanding these Texans obey. I don't have a certain number or percentage in mind but if enough of Texas decides they want out, state their case and show their plan, so long as it doesn't involve becoming a third world dictatorship which we all know it won't, I don't see any reason that a secession can't be peaceful. The Feds are the only ones who would turn it bloody.

As for how educated these folks are, well you don't know but your implication is that they are a bunch of toothless backwoods racists hillbillies who couldn't live without people like you in the world. Lots of baseless insults for people you don't know.

So much going on in this thread, I forget what all else I had in mind. Had a bunch of quotes ready but it would've been a ridiculous multi-quote bomb so I shot from the hip.

Thank you for that!

I've been biting my tongue throughout her posts, but I'm nearing my limits.

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Collateral Damage

Because Aztek, certain mindsets are simply obsessed with race. Even if it were only white people that in no way equates to a white power movement.

England did not grant US anything, nor did it matter if they did. We declared our independence. Frankly, we were tired of giving a crap what England thought. Also, I'd consider the formation of America a win on all fronts. Perhaps everyone did tire of the warring, not sure tbh, but all the goals on our end were achieved. That's a win.

Secession does not have to be a bloody war. The only ones who would create that reality is the very government that Beany is demanding these Texans obey. I don't have a certain number or percentage in mind but if enough of Texas decides they want out, state their case and show their plan, so long as it doesn't involve becoming a third world dictatorship which we all know it won't, I don't see any reason that a secession can't be peaceful. The Feds are the only ones who would turn it bloody.

As for how educated these folks are, well you don't know but your implication is that they are a bunch of toothless backwoods racists hillbillies who couldn't live without people like you in the world. Lots of baseless insults for people you don't know.

I was about to post a **** storm full of rage towards certain people in this thread, but then I saw your post and instantly lost the urge to do so, thank you for that! I'm glad others are still capable of seeing the world in a logical sense.

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KariW

England did not grant US anything, nor did it matter if they did. We declared our independence. Frankly, we were tired of giving a crap what England thought. Also, I'd consider the formation of America a win on all fronts. Perhaps everyone did tire of the warring, not sure tbh, but all the goals on our end were achieved. That's a win.

Secession does not have to be a bloody war. The only ones who would create that reality is the very government that Beany is demanding these Texans obey. I don't have a certain number or percentage in mind but if enough of Texas decides they want out, state their case and show their plan, so long as it doesn't involve becoming a third world dictatorship which we all know it won't, I don't see any reason that a secession can't be peaceful. The Feds are the only ones who would turn it bloody.

As for how educated these folks are, well you don't know but your implication is that they are a bunch of toothless backwoods racists hillbillies who couldn't live without people like you in the world. Lots of baseless insults for people you don't know.

So much going on in this thread, I forget what all else I had in mind. Had a bunch of quotes ready but it would've been a ridiculous multi-quote bomb so I shot from the hip.

Totally agree with everything you just said! :)

Edited by KariW
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preacherman76

I'm part of we the people, and I would be a raving madwoman if anyone started an armed rebellion that would take away my rights. I'm all for the United State of America, e plurabus unum, you know. Sorry if I misunderstood you, Bama13.

Really? Cause that's happening right now, and you don't seem to be the least bit bothered by it. Heck you are speaking out against folks who want to stop it.

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aquatus1

Never said the colonists won the war all by themselves, just that they won, which they did.

And i disagree, and have already explained why. Leave to the audience to determine which of us has the best reasoning.

What makes you think that the US military, which is comprised mostly of people that live here, would fight against their families, friends and neighbors?

I don't.

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maxcred

The level of paranoia in some of the posts here is hard to believe. I can't believe anyone would think that the United States would invade one of its own states. What could possible be gained by that? You don't invade youself. Countries invade other lands because of some benefit to themselves, such as safety or monetary gain. The U.S. has nothing to fear from an invasion by Texas which is a nonsenical idea and texans already pay federal income taxes so there is no monetary gain. Texans also must abide by federal laws so the idea of an invasion to control the citizens makes no sense. We have in the US the most democratric and participatory government in history. As much as some people like to complain it is still government 'by the people' so I think its plain to see there will be no internal invasion by the U.S military on land already part of the U.S.

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maxcred

of course you do not know, but if state of texas wants to leave the union, they wont ask anyone's opinion, but people of texas.

You might want to do some research on that.

What about Texas, which according to legend retains its own special secession clause? Supreme Court Justice Salmon P. Chase settled that question all the way back in 1869:

When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/no-you-cannot-secede-from-the-united-states-2012-11#ixzz3ZVdnMuid

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Beany

Really? Cause that's happening right now, and you don't seem to be the least bit bothered by it. Heck you are speaking out against folks who want to stop it.

You know what, from your perspective, your are right. I don't see it that way myself, but there are a lot of people mistrustful of big government, and for what they feel are very good reasons. I'm not as distrustful as some, and I don't have the sames fears, but I think I get it. As a country, we've gotten ourselves into a terrible pickle, and I, for one, am struggling to see a way out of it. I don't think literally tearing ourselves apart is an answer, though, as I see that as creating as many if not more problems that it solves.

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Beany

You might want to do some research on that.

What about Texas, which according to legend retains its own special secession clause? Supreme Court Justice Salmon P. Chase settled that question all the way back in 1869:

When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.

Read more: http://www.businessi...1#ixzz3ZVdnMuid

Thanks for introducing some facts & history into this rather emotionally loaded topic. Is this "special secession clause" one of those things floating around that is being used as a legal basis for secession, does anyone know?

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KariW

To be honest, I really don't think there is a "Special Secession clause", and I can't see it being used to justify Secession. But the secession of a state could be legally accomplished through a Convention Of States, which has been gaining steam since Mark Levine drew attention to Article 5. I also find it interesting that no less than 30 states have signed petitions to secede from the union, and I have heard the number is as high as 50, but I can't verify that number. Its good to know that Texas is not going it alone, and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me a bit if another State beat Texas to the punch.

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aztek

To be honest, I really don't think there is a "Special Secession clause", and I can't see it being used to justify Secession. But the secession of a state could be legally accomplished through a Convention Of States, which has been gaining steam since Mark Levine drew attention to Article 5. I also find it interesting that no less than 30 states have signed petitions to secede from the union, and I have heard the number is as high as 50, but I can't verify that number. Its good to know that Texas is not going it alone, and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me a bit if another State beat Texas to the punch.

I doubt any other state besides TX can sustain themselves, may be ca can, sure other states sign petitions, but I doubt the goal is to really brake away, at least for now. and I really do not think 1869 law would not be loopholed around if tx politicians really want to. that sure wont stop them, not by itself.

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aquatus1

Agreed.

"So, are we then agreed and committed to severing our ties with the United States, and moving forward as an independent country, with all that such entails, so that each of us may be free once more?"

"Hey, wait...isn't there a law against that?"

"What? Why would there be...Oh, geez, dang, Bob's right, guys, it is illegal to secede from the country. Sorry, revolution's called off."

"Aw, man, I took tomorrow off from work for this! That sucks!"

Edited by aquatus1

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KariW

I doubt any other state besides TX can sustain themselves, may be ca can, sure other states sign petitions, but I doubt the goal is to really brake away, at least for now. and I really do not think 1869 law would not be loopholed around if tx politicians really want to. that sure wont stop them, not by itself.

I agree with you there, Ultimately if Texas wants to secede, they will secede, and then they will no longer be bound by ANY US Supreme Court decision. Another thing to consider is that if the Federal Gov't doesn't abide and adhere to it's own laws and constitution, Why should Texas? Still, my Husband and I have been following the progress of the Convention of States very closely - if they can pass amendments which restrict and nullify the abuses of the Federal Government, then there will be no need to secede. Like others, .my husband and I moved to Texas incase it does decide to secede. We are giving it 2 years, and if thing's show no sign of getting any better, we have decided to move to another country before we incorporate.

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Bama13

And i disagree, and have already explained why. Leave to the audience to determine which of us has the best reasoning.

I don't.

Then what did this mean (from post #46):

The U.S. government isn't going to have the disadvantages that the British government did. The troops are here, not an ocean away. The weapons aren't just better, they are superior. The personnel are trained on the exact same land, using tactics from all around the world, with the emphasis on flexibility and dominance of the battlefield. War is nothing at all like it used to be centuries ago. A civilian resistance would have no chance against a modern military.

What modern military were you talking about? I thought it was the US military.

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aquatus1

Then what did this mean (from post #46):

The U.S. government isn't going to have the disadvantages that the British government did. The troops are here, not an ocean away. The weapons aren't just better, they are superior. The personnel are trained on the exact same land, using tactics from all around the world, with the emphasis on flexibility and dominance of the battlefield. War is nothing at all like it used to be centuries ago. A civilian resistance would have no chance against a modern military.

What modern military were you talking about? I thought it was the US military.

It was. The U.S. military is far superior, far better trained, far better equipped, and any battle that any civilian, or even semi-professional, group attempted against them would be over in short order.

That was the answer to that question. In your last post, you asked a different question. It should not surprise you that the answer is different.

That any battle waged would be over in short order is all but given. That any battle would take place is highly doubtful, for a variety of reasons, one of them being that very few of our modern soldiers would willingly take arms against the citizens of their country.

Highly doubtful, not impossible, but highly doubtful.

Edited by aquatus1

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Buzz_Light_Year

When I'm unhappy with the government I participate in elections, I campaign, I register people to vote, I work the phone banks. I suffered through Nixon, Reagan, Bush, and Bush, and was thoroughly ticked at all of them, and not once did I ever think that it was time for an armed revolution. I could spend way too much time here enumerating the causes of my disgust. Bottom line, you win some, you lose some, the pendulum swings one way and then the other. The current folks in DC and elsewhere were elected by the majority of voters. You may not be happy with it, I may not be happy with it, but in a democracy, the majority rules. Well, except for the 2nd Bush re-election, when the Supreme Court named him president.

Therein lies your problem the US is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic. I see the years of indoctrination has not been wasted on you.

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. ”

~Thomas Jefferson

“A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference. ”

~Thomas Jefferson

“All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression. ”

~Thomas Jefferson

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cmaracing

Dear Texas:

This conversation is the most idiotic one I have ever seen, I love Texas but the vitriol has gone to far, lets look at some things first,

even if Texas got its independence then what, you honestly believe you can protect yourself against the Mexican army or the cartel's even if you could then what, you would need your own currency just that alone would have an disastrous outcome that has never been seen in history.

Texas has no trading partner no currency besides oil that fluctuates in price, some farming what else, Texas at this moment receives more Federal funds than it pays in.

Texas is like the kid that wants to live on there own but needs mom and dad to pay there way, and don't give me this bull about freedom, it was us northerners that initiated and fought for independence while Texas was still Mexico and it was us northerners that came out on top of the north south disagreement "lol" and in the end the Great Land of Texas couldn't even protect the ALAMO.

Texas has every right that every other state has "you welcome from the northerners that gave you the Constitution" its called representation, use it but don't abuse it.

Sincerely Yours

Fellow American

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KariW

Dear Texas:

This conversation is the most idiotic one I have ever seen, I love Texas but the vitriol has gone to far, lets look at some things first,

even if Texas got its independence then what, you honestly believe you can protect yourself against the Mexican army or the cartel's even if you could then what, you would need your own currency just that alone would have an disastrous outcome that has never been seen in history.

Texas has no trading partner no currency besides oil that fluctuates in price, some farming what else, Texas at this moment receives more Federal funds than it pays in.

Texas is like the kid that wants to live on there own but needs mom and dad to pay there way, and don't give me this bull about freedom, it was us northerners that initiated and fought for independence while Texas was still Mexico and it was us northerners that came out on top of the north south disagreement "lol" and in the end the Great Land of Texas couldn't even protect the ALAMO.

Texas has every right that every other state has "you welcome from the northerners that gave you the Constitution" its called representation, use it but don't abuse it.

Sincerely Yours

Fellow American

ROTFLMAO! I may totally disagree with your post, but I absolutely LOVE your spunk and feistiness, Cmaracing! No one can say you don't have real American Spirit! Your post brought a big grin to my face. :D

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Beany

Therein lies your problem the US is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic. I see the years of indoctrination has not been wasted on you.

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. ”

~Thomas Jefferson

“A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference. ”

~Thomas Jefferson

“All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression. ”

~Thomas Jefferson

I suppose it's easier to believe I've been indoctrinated and dismiss the concerns I've voiced than to address the practical issues of secession. That's an ad hominem argument, BTW, one of the most common errors in critical thinking.

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Bama13

Dear Texas:

This conversation is the most idiotic one I have ever seen, I love Texas but the vitriol has gone to far, lets look at some things first,

even if Texas got its independence then what, you honestly believe you can protect yourself against the Mexican army or the cartel's even if you could then what, you would need your own currency just that alone would have an disastrous outcome that has never been seen in history.

Texas has no trading partner no currency besides oil that fluctuates in price, some farming what else, Texas at this moment receives more Federal funds than it pays in.

Texas is like the kid that wants to live on there own but needs mom and dad to pay there way, and don't give me this bull about freedom, it was us northerners that initiated and fought for independence while Texas was still Mexico and it was us northerners that came out on top of the north south disagreement "lol" and in the end the Great Land of Texas couldn't even protect the ALAMO.

Texas has every right that every other state has "you welcome from the northerners that gave you the Constitution" its called representation, use it but don't abuse it.

Sincerely Yours

Fellow American

"northerners...fought for independence"

"you welcome from the northerners that gave you the Constitution"

Now that's funny. Do the names: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, George Mason, or Patrick Henry mean anything to you?

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Beany

Totally agree with everything you just said! :)

I love the forgone conclusion that places blame on the Feds, no matter what. On one hand we've got a bunch of secessionsts who surely are armed to the teeth and prepared for battle, in case they can't achieve their goal peacefully, with a scapegoat, the Feds already in place. Beautiful set up: whatever happens it's not our fault. It's this kind of thinking & lack of logic that scares the tweet out of me, frankly. You know how you feel about the Feds? That's exactly the same way I feel about the secessionists. So we do share the same sentiments, at least.

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Bama13

I love the forgone conclusion that places blame on the Feds, no matter what. On one hand we've got a bunch of secessionsts who surely are armed to the teeth and prepared for battle, in case they can't achieve their goal peacefully, with a scapegoat, the Feds already in place. Beautiful set up: whatever happens it's not our fault. It's this kind of thinking & lack of logic that scares the tweet out of me, frankly. You know how you feel about the Feds? That's exactly the same way I feel about the secessionists. So we do share the same sentiments, at least.

While not everything is the Feds fault they have no one to fault but themselves. If they would simply obey the Constitution then they wouldn't get so much of the blame. But they over reach their constitutional authority and grab as much power from the States and the people (Amendments IX and X) as they can. With more power comes more blame when things go wrong. So instead of people being mad at their state government they get mad a the feds. As least that is how I see it.

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KariW

Again some very good points, Bama13. If they would just adhere to the constitution and stop targeting hard working American citizens - there would be no problem, but then again there are very sinister forces at work in our country that want to deny us our rights as human beings, chief among them is that right to defend ourselves with deadly force.

I have always been of the mindset, that if an entity (person/gov't) draws "first blood" and is the primary aggressor in an argument - they alone bear full blame for anything that follows, as the other person/side is simply reacting to that aggression, and they have the absolute right to "Finish the fight" if you get my meaning. Agression, which seeks to deprive citizens of their Constitutional and Human Rights should not be tolerated on any level. This is just my personal point of view.

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Gromdor

If Texas was one of my family members, I would be having it tested for dementia. There is a certain level of rationality that you have to possess to continue to be a productive member of society. Thinking that your sons and daughters serving in the military are out to get you is the level of thinking that sends Grandpa or Grandma to the assisted living home and away from the shotgun rack,

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.ZZ.

Dear Texas:

This conversation is the most idiotic one I have ever seen, I love Texas but the vitriol has gone to far, lets look at some things first,

even if Texas got its independence then what, you honestly believe you can protect yourself against the Mexican army or the cartel's even if you could then what, you would need your own currency just that alone would have an disastrous outcome that has never been seen in history.

Texas has no trading partner no currency besides oil that fluctuates in price, some farming what else, Texas at this moment receives more Federal funds than it pays in.

Texas is like the kid that wants to live on there own but needs mom and dad to pay there way, and don't give me this bull about freedom, it was us northerners that initiated and fought for independence while Texas was still Mexico and it was us northerners that came out on top of the north south disagreement "lol" and in the end the Great Land of Texas couldn't even protect the ALAMO.

Texas has every right that every other state has "you welcome from the northerners that gave you the Constitution" its called representation, use it but don't abuse it.

Sincerely Yours

Fellow American

Dear Fellow American from an undisclosed northern state:

Please indulge me while I engage in another "idiotic conversation"

I'm happy to see you love Texas, we would welcome you.

Texas has no trading partner no currency besides oil that fluctuates in price, some farming what else, Texas at this moment receives more Federal funds than it pays in.

"Besides oil"? 2.2 million barrels a day isn't exactly chump change, and production is increasing:

http://www.upi.com/B.../8461427805372/

"Some farming"? A quote from the Texas Dept of Agriculture:

https://www.texasagriculture.gov/About/TexasAgStats.aspx

  • Texas leads the nation in cattle, cotton, hay, sheep, goats and mohair production.
  • Texas leads the nation in number of farms and ranches, with 248,800 farms and ranches covering 130.2 million acres.
  • Texas has more women and minority farm operations than any other state in the nation.
  • Texas also leads the nation in value of farm real estate.
  • Rural lands, including privately owned forest, total 142 million acres, 84% of the state's total land area.
  • 12% of Texas' population resides in rural areas.
  • 1 of every 7 working Texans (14%) is in an agriculture-related job.
  • 98.6% of Texas farms and ranches are family farms, partnerships or family-held corporations.
  • The average age of Texas farmers and ranchers is 58 years.

Texas has every right that every other state has "you welcome from the northerners that gave you the Constitution" its called representation, use it but don't abuse it.

Funny stuff there.

Edited by ZZ430
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