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Beany

Texas and the Obama takeover

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Skep B

"once you're in, you can't get out", isn't a union of equals, it's a prison.

If Texas thinks it can go it alone in the 21st century and the majority of locals vote for it - let it. It's called "Freedom" and it's something you Americans proudly promote as being your core virtue.

Yeah, but Freedom for us is kind of like Coca Cola claiming "coke brings life"

It's just a catchphrase.

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aquatus1

"once you're in, you can't get out", isn't a union of equals, it's a prison.

Or a gang. Which isn't all that different from a Union.

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Beany

So what happens if those people want out are a minority within the state of Texas? Because right now, that seems to be the case?

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aztek

nothing will happen , as it is the case now.

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F3SS

So what happens if those people want out are a minority within the state of Texas? Because right now, that seems to be the case?

Then they probably won't get too far trying to secede.

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.ZZ.

So what happens if those people want out are a minority within the state of Texas? Because right now, that seems to be the case?

Using that hypothetical scenario, I'm pretty sure the Patriots of Texas will assist in their departure.

The gates of freedom swing both ways.

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Yamato

If Texas secedes, is Obama going to be an American Hero for invading it and restoring the union like Abraham Lincoln?

Would Cameron be a hero for invading Scotland if the recent vote for Scottish independence went the other way?

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KariW

IMO, Lincoln's Civil War helped to secure the human rights of a minority of people and in the case of Texas and other states who want to secede, it would be to deny them their rights as free Human Beings!

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Paranormalcy

Even if there is a ceremonial or honorary agreement that Texas is essentially "part of the US, but only barely and can leave anytime", this is 2015, the US is still a global superpower and the interactions with other states as well as international has incalculable threads and subtle influences and considerations. Anyone that thinks ANY state would be allowed to "leave" the US is mistaken. If necessary, its membership would clearly be enforced militarily.

A state leaving "the union" is a threat to national security - I think we all know how the US feels about that. You can talk all you want about theoretically honored agreement but if you actually asked any influential federal agency or even lawyer, all this hopeful talk would come to a close rapidly. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying what is - there is exactly 0.00~% chance Texas or any other state would be allowed to secede.

Edited by Paranormalcy

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Yeah, but Freedom for us is kind of like Coca Cola claiming "coke brings life"

It's just a catchphrase.

WAIT ar you telling me that coke isn't an efficacious necromantic agent?

Ohh bum.....

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Beany

I want to say thank you to everyone participating in this discussion. I can read & research the topic, but getting the information firsthand gives me a far better feel for how people are thinking and feeling, and it has a much greater impact on me.

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aztek

one needs to look at what happens in ukraine right now, parts want to brake off, and ukraines gvmnt sends in army to make sure it wont happen, it is a war out there that claimes at least 6000 lives. it would be over long time ago if russia was not fighting a war there on rebels side.

another example transnistra republic, brake away region of moldova, they fought for a year or two, in 90s, also with russian help, so moldova backed off, now transnistra is separate country,, even thou they have their own passports, but no one recognises them as a country, they need moldova pasports, or any other passport to enter any country. same with ukraine lugansk and donetsk republics.

however in both cases violence was initiated by original "host " country,

Edited by aztek
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Sir Wearer of Hats

The Union is stronger with all parts within it.

Now, from what I can tell, Texas pulls it's weight and is effectively the equivalent of a European country's worth of people and landmass. Texas pulling out will damage the Union, and make Texas about as important as New Zealand on the International Stage, but will it affect Texas negatively?

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Yamato

Let's see. No more Social Security, no more Medicare, no more Medicaid, no more Obamacare, no more interstate commerce made regular, no more enforcement of contracts, no more national defense, just for starters. But let's just entertain national defense, or rather, the idea of not having any. There's a good baseline for discussion that's probably never been seen before.

But let's pretend Texas is so arch-conservative it doesn't need any of that stuff! Texas might turn into Switzerland when it doesn't have a God-sized military or the fear peddlers lurking around every corner trying to exploit it.

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aztek

Tx is gonna keep Pantex Plant, right?

Edited by aztek

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Drayno

God help anyone that attempts to invade Texas.

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.ZZ.

Hah, Abbott just asked Obama for FEMA help with the floods. I wonder if they are going to set up the shelters in the Walmarts! http://trailblazersb...as-floods.html/

Yeah, that is just hilarious.

14 dead and counting, yeah, that's real funny alright.

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Doc Socks Junior

Funny? No.

Ironic? Yes.

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ShadowSot

Is there any president in recent history who hasnt had a big hoopla about Fema camps and Martial Law?

1999, 2001, 2012, now 2015.

I remembet reading the same about Kennedy and FDR.

But no, this time the sky is actually falling.

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Varelse

What is wrong with a group of people, in this case, Texans (and possibly other states). who seek Freedom and Liberty from an oppressive Fed. Gov't, from forming their own country, as long as they do it "peacefully and democratically" as outlined in their state constitutions - who has the right to deny them their freedom, and constitutional rights? Just my opinion. :)

In a perfect world...but this is not that. Far from it. The irrationality of these tin hatters is beyond belief. I would think, strategically speaking, the US military wouldn't have to set foot in a seceded state if they wanted it back. Simply scuttle the gear that can't be removed from federal bases and installations, evactuate those who want out and then completely embargo the state. Oklahoma was on board years ago, as was Louisiana and New Mexico. And the gulf? They won't even be able to access the oil platforms - companies like Exxon and Shell will **** and relocate elsewhere. As for the people, lets see how long Tx soccer moms and their polo shirted husbands can tolerate rations from Mexico. Rations they'd only get by agreeing to a more porous border and an a-load of natural gas.

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Shayde

Forgive the next question, but it's linked to a post made on the Jade helm thread in the conspiracy forum.

So, the good folk of Texas are concerned that this upcoming exercise is in fact a barely hidden takeover of their state, yes?

But I assume that Texas has a good few US military installations already in operation, yes? I mean giving the size of the nation it's a fair bet that each state has at least two of the military branches stationed in each.

So, by that reckoning, the flaming army/ air force/ navy where applicable is already maintaining a presence in the states under threat from this not-very-secret seizure so if they are really taking a state over, they've got a heck of a head start!

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KariW

The irrationality of these tin hatters is beyond belief.

Totally agree with you here! :tu:

I would think, strategically speaking, the US military wouldn't have to set foot in a seceded state if they wanted it back. Simply scuttle the gear that can't be removed from federal bases and installations, evactuate those who want out and then completely embargo the state.

In a perfect world yes, but as you pointed out -This is far from a perfect world. And there are an infinite amount of ways to get around embargos, IMO!

Edited by KariW

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Yamato

The corporate owners of these greasy D and R politicians will simply make their angry phone calls ("I'm done supporting you") over such a preposterous notion as Secession...the politicians will be handing out sweets to Texas if it behaves itself, let's get real.

It's pretty clear who runs this show, and it isn't the illegal lawmakers we vote for. It isn't we the people either. Phaeton posted an amazing video from Ivy League (Yale?) research showing that the will of the people has nothing to do with the laws we live under. Everyone promptly ignored it. Let's get real. We're at the will of wealthy political activists. We vote for their dupes. And way too many of us are way too pleased with the results that we keep voting for it again and again.

The Corporations not getting political kickbacks are leaving our country and setting up HQ's in foreign lands so they don't have to pay our prohibitive taxes. How come the R's and the D's don't care about that? The slimy little horse traders! Why isn't our government more business-friendly, to ALL businesses, and stop the scissoring with the oil and "defense" companies? Federal government's ONLY role in the US economy should be: Lower corporate taxes to the global median/mean so American businesses stay American, enforce the contracts, prosecute the fraud, keep interstate commerce regular (infrastructure et al), and otherwise - just get out of the way and let the economy be what it really is. Then we can have that balanced-budget Amendment we all like to love on in a vacuum.

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