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Donald Trump Enters 2016 Presidential Race


aztek

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The unrealistic goal of continually growing at "x%" is one of the major problems.

While I perceive flaws in the system I feel need addressed I don't find pathetic as an apt adjective. For all those flaws there is no other country I would prefer to be a citizen of than the U.S. (though there are many I hold respect for).

We are like a very extended dysfunctional family. We can squabble and fight among ourselves but when an outsider takes a shot at us such as with 9/11 they get the realization that we will coalesce temporarily setting aside our differences to go and wreak havoc on those responsible (as Afghanistan unfortunately found out by the Taliban initially sheltering Bin Laden). And we have friends who will usually come along to help with the beat down... :devil:

Yes, the taliban certainly learned not to mess, didn't they. I mean, where are they now?

:unsure:

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I could prattle on about freedoms, liberties, and opportunity but even though I have been fortunate enough to have traveled outside the U.S. quite a bit and witness amazing things it really boils down to this.

I was born an Appalachian Redneck and remain one at heart. The furthest from those mountains I have been able to feel at home is in the "Pennsylvania Dutch country" which leaves those mountains less than a day trip away. Within a decade I intend to partially retire and move back into those mountains preferably on a plot of land where the driveway is long enough that the walk from the front porch to the mailbox sitting along the road is a hour long hike.

Though not as tall as the Rockies or world reknown as the Alps(I have been to both and they are breathtaking) nothing compares to watching a morning mist rise from valleys or the sun setting behind the peaks in Appalachia.

Your mileage may vary :D

Edit to add- few other places have the lyrical baying of a Treeing Walker, Redbone, Bluetick, or Leopard hound rising in the night as like a lullaby for those not trudging through the woods chasing after a rascally racoon...

Many people from many different countries feel the same for similar reasons. It's why occupations don't work and guerrilla war does.

Interesting question, going on slightly of a tangent about patriotism; the things that are described there are largely natural things, wildlife, natural beauties and so on. Few of them are anything to be greatful to whichever form of Goverment a country might have. I feel the same; it's definitely the things that Nature provides that makes a country worth being proud of rather than politics or Freedom or Democracy or stuff like that, which is largely, of course, fraudulent.

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Occupations can work if the occupation is steadfastly and fairly implemented with long term goals maintained by the occupying force. Last I checked, the U.S. still has forces deployed in Germany, Japan, and other areas that were occupied after WW2. We still maintain a presence in South Korea. The "failed occupations" have all occurred from the Vietnam war and after where the public willingness to keep American lives in danger for decades while those countries stabilise and rebuild is what seems to have wavered. I am not saying it is totally wrong, but to compare the short time and resources (not dollar amount but resources on the ground) we used in Afghanistan to the time and resources spent helping Japan rebuild seems that we kind of short changed the Afghanis compared to the Japanese.

That's probably because Germany and Japan stopped being "occupied" in the sense of militarily defeated not very long into the 1950s, and since then the American presence has been to Protect and Defend them (however necessary it may still be, which is a very debatable point, and the US presence on Okinawa particularly is rather unpopular with a sizeable sector of the population). For 'Stan and Iraq, it does seem as if the intention was just to get revenge on them, and having ground them into the dirt show them who was in charge, rather than having any real interest in building Freedom and Democracy.
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While I perceive flaws in the system I feel need addressed I don't find pathetic as an apt adjective. For all those flaws there is no other country I would prefer to be a citizen of than the U.S. (though there are many I hold respect for).

That's just because of personal bias, like a lot of people from a lot of countries have. If you're born somewhere, or have roots there, you're likely to be biased towards it (especially if fed propaganda as well).

Pathetic might be the right adjective, people fooling ourselves we're the greatest, but objectively, we're clearly not even close. We're the laughing stock of the world because of that misplaced arrogance and obliviousness to the world around us. We don't have a realistic self-image at all and we're ignoring problems because of it.

Some people luckily do have a decent view of our strengths and weaknesses (like you seem to at least understand we have flaws), but all those genuine "we're the greatest and do everything perfect"-attitudes we have running around here is what's preventing America from becoming great. Accept flaws, and work on them, instead of ignoring them or fighting tooth and nail to convince others we have no flaws.

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My mindset is that I'd rather do something then nothing. You propose doing nothing and say that someone out there will notice and decide to act differently, when what you are forgetting is that all those you are seeking to influence simply don't care. If 51% of everyone refused to vote, still the majority candidate would win, yes?

They certainly do care, they care so much they are liable to make voting mandatory, like was done in Australia. You give them - that establishment you so love to hate, and pray your hero will deconstruct - power with e ve ry vote you cast. A nosedive in the number of people voting would directly indicate a nosedive in confidence of the political arena. And refraining from voting would not be the only aspect of it, obviously. You and millions of Americans would actually need to get off your combined arses to make a difference, actually ACT against these liars instead of casting your little vote and 'hope for the best'.. Like you have been doing everytime. Get active for a change, stop these fools from destroying your country. Again, what you are doing when you vote is effectively approving A] the way the system is set up and B] the deceptive nature of the present political culture, being lied to on a structural basis. A + B = a festive invitation to being.. well.. ****ed.. like you increasingly have been the last couple of decades.

I just cant believe you cannot see the mindnumbing illogic of 'choosing the best liar', youre not only accepting a culture of deceit, but even consciously setting yourself up to be lied to. Which person in his right mind would not only accept a culture of deceit prevalent throughout the management of his company (against the companies interest), and would even select the CEO which has proven to be the 'best liar' of them all?! Thats literally insane, pure and simple.

And on the other side we have you, who doesn't vote and just goes online and complains about everyone else who does vote.

I complain about people cheering on those who lie to them. Crazy sh* huh. Then we have you, who proposes to keep giving power to a system that facilitates election by virtue of big business and deceptive politics - for all intents and purposes approving a government not by, and not for the people - while lamenting the state of affairs / hoping for change. Guarantee for success, Im quite sure. You and people with your attitude are truely a Founding Father's Nightmare.

You imagine that if everyone refused to vote for liars, that honest people would step up and take over? I fear that is naive. It would take a remarkable and miraculous change in US Society to allow that to happen.

If the American People would stop accepting being lied to, what every rational human being would demand, yes. These people keep doing it, increasingly so, because you people (are so dumb to) allow it. Its not rocket science. You imagine voting for the best liar will somehow change your government for the best? I fear that is naive, extremely so.

"Revolution is the only Option." ........ Finally you are clear.

Well sir, you cannot change a system by voting, by giving it legitimacy, power. True change takes true effort, dust needs to be kicked up. So yes, a revolution would be the only option.

Edited by Phaeton80
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You've been talking a lot about how voting never changes things and so on, and in a two-party hegemony you may well be right, but would you say the same about a system of Portional Representation like in your own country, where there's loads of parties, even one specially for animals! ? Is it just the American system (and to a large extent the UK), or is it the same with all so-called "democratic" systems (as opposed to the so-called "Democratic" Party, which we all know isn't), in the end?

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My mindset is that I'd rather do something then nothing. You propose doing nothing and say that someone out there will notice and decide to act differently, when what you are forgetting is that all those you are seeking to influence simply don't care. If 51% of everyone refused to vote, still the majority candidate would win, yes?

They certainly do care, they care so much they are liable to make voting mandatory, like was done in Australia. You give them - that establishment you so love to hate, and pray your hero will deconstruct - power with e ve ry vote you cast. A nosedive in the number of people voting would directly indicate a nosedive in confidence of the political arena. And refraining from voting would not be the only aspect of it, obviously. You and millions of Americans would actually need to get off your combined arses to make a difference, actually ACT against these liars instead of casting your little vote and 'hope for the best'.. Like you have been doing everytime. Get active for a change, stop these fools from destroying your country. Again, what you are doing when you vote is effectively approving A] the way the system is set up and B] the deceptive nature of the present political culture, being lied to on a structural basis. A + B = a festive invitation to being.. well.. ****ed.. like you increasingly have been the last couple of decades.

I just cant believe you cannot see the mindnumbing illogic of 'choosing the best liar', youre not only accepting a culture of deceit, but even consciously setting yourself up to be lied to. Which person in his right mind would not only accept a culture of deceit prevalent throughout the management of his company (against the companies interest), and would even select the CEO which has proven to be the 'best liar' of them all?! Thats literally insane, pure and simple.

That's BS, if the US FedGov cared about the voters, they'd already have made voting compulsory. Australia implemented compulsory voting to try to eliminate the disenfranchisement of the poor, not to maintain some kind of control.

Why would I act? I like my "best liar". I told you why even... A liar will always have advantage over honest people, and so if the US has a liar in charge (A good liar, not a Hillary bad liar), then we'll have advantage.

I'm not sure why you even have such moral outrage over lying. It is a very natural thing for humans to do.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/05/18/were-all-lying-liars-why-people-tell-lies-and-why-white-lies-can-be-ok

http://elitedaily.com/life/culture/are-we-all-little-liars/

I'd argue that most CEOs are the best liars in their company. They need to be able to be truthful and deceitful as needed.

A person who is honest is a victim to someone who is not.

And on the other side we have you, who doesn't vote and just goes online and complains about everyone else who does vote.

I complain about people cheering on those who lie to them. Crazy sh* huh. Then we have you, who proposes to keep giving power to a system that facilitates election by virtue of big business and deceptive politics - for all intents and purposes approving a government not by, and not for the people - while lamenting the state of affairs / hoping for change. Guarantee for success, Im quite sure. You and people with your attitude are truely a Founding Father's Nightmare.

Who's lying to me? Everyone... So we should just let the government collapse by lack of electing officials? Fantastic... OH! But you're from Belgium right? You are used to governments collapsing.

As far as I know Thomas Jefferson made Campaign Promises just as Trump and others have. I don't see anything different in our system from the time of the Founding Fathers. They'd call me a model citizen for voting in all elections, paying my taxes and working to make my country a better place. You, I think they would call a anarchist, not a revolutionary.

You imagine that if everyone refused to vote for liars, that honest people would step up and take over? I fear that is naive. It would take a remarkable and miraculous change in US Society to allow that to happen.

If the American People would stop accepting being lied to, what every rational human being would demand, yes. These people keep doing it, increasingly so, because you people (are so dumb to) allow it. Its not rocket science. You imagine voting for the best liar will somehow change your government for the best? I fear that is naive, extremely so.

I don't imagine it will improve my government, but I know that it will provide our country with better leadership. You are the one who wants to change the government, I want to have the best leader. A liar is a better leader then an honest man.

"Revolution is the only Option." ........ Finally you are clear.

Well sir, you cannot change a system by voting, by giving it legitimacy, power. True change takes true effort, dust needs to be kicked up. So yes, a revolution would be the only option.

I thought the Founding Fathers voted on everything. Even if they should rebel, and if they should fight back.

So what again was the true effort you are doing? Because it sounded to me like the effort you were putting forward was to do nothing.

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That's just because of personal bias, like a lot of people from a lot of countries have. If you're born somewhere, or have roots there, you're likely to be biased towards it (especially if fed propaganda as well).

Possibly, but that bias does not make one incorrect.

Pathetic might be the right adjective, people fooling ourselves we're the greatest, but objectively, we're clearly not even close. We're the laughing stock of the world because of that misplaced arrogance and obliviousness to the world around us. We don't have a realistic self-image at all and we're ignoring problems because of it.

We're the laughing stock of the world yet our defense spending has basically subsidized miltary spending for all of Europe and parts of Asia allowing them to spend that money elsewhere.

One hiccup in our Housing market plunges the world into a recession. Contrast that with Greece who is bankrupt, being propped up by Germany through multiple EU bailouts, and it hasn't even affected the majority of the EUROZONE other tha. an annoyance at repeatedly bailing them out.

Some people luckily do have a decent view of our strengths and weaknesses (like you seem to at least understand we have flaws), but all those genuine "we're the greatest and do everything perfect"-attitudes we have running around here is what's preventing America from becoming great. Accept flaws, and work on them, instead of ignoring them or fighting tooth and nail to convince others we have no flaws.

Most of the flaws I perceive are forays into socialistic programs on the part of the government modeled on European Programs. People tend to complain we spend "X" dollars on "defense" but only "x" on this (pick your favorite pet project) social program. I have no problem with that, The government is actually tasked with defense, not with doing the things the majority of the social programs are aimed at. I have no major issues with Social Security, Medicare, or even limited WIC. I do have issues with longer term welfare programs like SNAP, Ag Subsidies, and Municipal Tax breaks going to corporations in order to attract or keep a plant in the area.

I have even stated compared to the failed lunacy called Obama Care, I would rather the government simply expand Medicare to all giving it more price bargaining power at the same time. With Obama Care there has been a net gain in high usage people being insured and a net loss in overall number of people covered since it's implementation. No reductions in the cost of healthcare have been realized and the price of mediocre plans continually rises. A lot of people I know have lesser quality plans now than they did before Obama Care due to premium increases. I know small businesses with only 5-10 employees who ended up dropping the health insurance from their benefits package because of cost increases. How many small businesses are contracting out positions or only filling them part time to stay under the number of employees before they are mandated to offer coverage thanks to price increases? If your going to socialize healthcare, you may as well just expand Medicare deductions and give Medicare to every one. There will still be a large market for private supplementary insurance, though the employment base in the health insurance sector will take a rather large hit.

To point on flaws coming from the right of the Aisle, Congress has done little to nothing of what we actually task them with in the constitution. Instead they spent a good deal of time publicly lashing out at the Iran Nuclear deal in a seeming attempt to derail negotiations there instead of allowing the negotiating to take place, then either ratify or dismiss the treaty. Constant attempts at repealing Obama Care without having a valid replacement plan attached to the bill. Almost 8 years of drama about spending bills when Congress are the ones actually spending the money, the executive branch is merely administering what Congress has spent.

The list can go on. But for all of that, I still see in the U.S. a better mix of Upward mobility, freedom, and personal liberties than elsewhere in the world. So yeah we have our issues but contrast our issues to those in many of the other countries that consider us a "laughing stock" and then truthfully answer which is better.

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A person who is honest is a victim to someone who is not.
A liar is a better leader then an honest man.

Thats some utterly hopeless, insane nonsense. My god man, what the hell is wrong with you.

OH! But you're from Belgium right? You are used to governments collapsing.

Yeah thats right; Amsterdam (city), the Netherlands (state/region), Belgium (country), EU (union). You probably were a true topography buff back in the day werent you.

So what again was the true effort you are doing? Because it sounded to me like the effort you were putting forward was to do nothing.

Then you might want to read my posts again. Just like you might want to read up on topography, how the world looks ouside US borders. Now if youll excuse me, its time for my daily Belgian waffle.

Edited by Phaeton80
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Yes, the taliban certainly learned not to mess, didn't they. I mean, where are they now?

:unsure:

In a worse position than they were when in power beforehand. Though in a weird way I do respect the difficult choice to shelter their compatriot and not take the expedient means of maintaining power by handing him over. That whole region (and Africa) is a mess because of partitioning by Colonial powers on a basis convenient to them and treating all Brown skinned people as the same, not taking into account there are cultural differences which should have been respected.

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Then you might want to read my posts again.

This was you, yes?

I vote void, thats exactly right. I take that little form, do absolutely nothing to it, and dump it in the box.

How is that action? Though I suppose it is as much action as I do. But, then, I didn't say I was trying to do anything, but you did.

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Thats some utterly hopeless, insane nonsense. My god man, what the hell is wrong with you.

What the hell is wrong with you? From my point of view, you are the one babbling insane nonsense.

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How is that action? Though I suppose it is as much action as I do. But, then, I didn't say I was trying to do anything, but you did.

This might come as a reality shaking shock to you, but the concept of 'action' is not limited by issuing votes like a good docile citizen. You know something is very wrong when a Dutchman needs to point this out ad naseum to an American.

What the hell is wrong with you? From my point of view, you are the one babbling insane nonsense.

Dude, anyone stating "A person who is honest is a victim to someone who is not" and "A liar is a better leader then an honest man" - in an attempt to rationalise the political culture of deceit - is quite objectively, certifiably insane. Unless youre living in lalaland, where such twisted crazyness is the norm. Oh wait..

Edited by Phaeton80
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This might come as a reality shaking shock to you, but the concept of 'action' is not limited by issuing votes like a good docile citizen. You know something is very wrong when a Dutchman needs to point this out ad naseum to an American.

Dude, anyone stating "A person who is honest is a victim to someone who is not" and "A liar is a better leader then an honest man" - in an attempt to rationalise the political culture of deceit - is quite objectively, certifiably insane. Unless youre living in lalaland, where such twisted crazyness is the norm. Oh wait..

Not insane. It is the thoughts of a Realist. One who realizes how this world works. Funny how no one other then you has every thought I was insane. So we have you on one hand, and everyone else on the other. Hummmm.... Who should I trust...

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So yeah we have our issues but contrast our issues to those in many of the other countries that consider us a "laughing stock" and then truthfully answer which is better.

You wont like the truth though. "Make America great again" won't ever happen if we don't get our feet back on the ground.

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You wont like the truth though. "Make America great again" won't ever happen if we don't get our feet back on the ground.

I agree, and have never claimed Trump is the answer to "Make America Great" again. If there were a "None of the above" slot on the ballot that precluded the two presumptive nominees from being able to run ever again I would gladly tic that box. Another issue is that the majority of the campaign promises about radical change are empty. Even if some magical third party dark horse came striding out of nowhere and won the election, ink on the newspapers heralding the landmark event would not be dry before leaders from both main parties met and agreed to work together to ensure that it would be a one term third party presidency.

Liberals whinge about defense spending, Neocons sob over wasting money on social programs. Neither side actually proposes anything to reduce the size of the government and overall spending. Even with the creative accounting methods used by Congress which would send up red flags to the IRS if private companies copied the model they are unable to balance a budget. Both sides point their fingers at the other but both have crumbs all over their fingers from dipping in the cookie jar. Libertarians and some conservatives now bemoan a missed opportunity with Ron Paul but that is as delusional as millenials thinking Bernie would be able to accomplish what nonsense he is promising.

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Ok so he misspoke on the abortion issues, that will bring him down, but he `s right our economy going down the tubes, that he maybe can fix .

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump predicted that the United States is on course for a "very massive recession," warning that a combination of high unemployment and an overvalued stock market had set the stage for another economic slump.

"I think we're sitting on an economic bubble. A financial bubble.

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Ok so he misspoke on the abortion issues, that will bring him down, but he `s right our economy going down the tubes, that he maybe can fix .

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump predicted that the United States is on course for a "very massive recession," warning that a combination of high unemployment and an overvalued stock market had set the stage for another economic slump.

"I think we're sitting on an economic bubble. A financial bubble.

Yes donald trump and every other american who has graduated high school can see that high unemployment and corporate wall street hijinx are leading us to economic destruction. This does not necessarily qualify him or any of the other millions of high school graduates in this nation to be president.

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Yes donald trump and every other american who has graduated high school can see that high unemployment and corporate wall street hijinx are leading us to economic destruction. This does not necessarily qualify him or any of the other millions of high school graduates in this nation to be president.

What amazes me is the stock index was rated too high before the housing bubble collapsed. But we go right back to needing the index back to pre crash levels and the same unrealistic growth expectations less than a decade later. Perhaps some of the intellectual elite we rely on as experts need to ask for refunds on their higher education degrees. At the very least we should slow down our blind faith in what they yammer on about.

Take the auto bailout, not only did we sign over large welfare checks to the companies, we also instituted a "cash for clunkers" program that removed so many used vehicles from the market it priced the remaining ones out of reach for many of those who can least afford an automobile. No doubt the program was well intentioned to help keep domestic production afloat during recovery but it did not take an economic genius to figure out the repercussions on our poorest communities would be to pile a larger mountain of debt on top of them as they were forced to take out larger loans in order to have an automobile.

Edited by Jarocal
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Yes donald trump and every other american who has graduated high school can see that high unemployment and corporate wall street hijinx are leading us to economic destruction. This does not necessarily qualify him or any of the other millions of high school graduates in this nation to be president.

I think he could fix it with his wheels and deals with the world and should be given a chance. Like he say if we don't fix our county first, we wont have a country left to deal with the other issues.

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Take the auto bailout, not only did we sign over large welfare checks to the companies, we also instituted a "cash for clunkers" program that removed so many used vehicles from the market it priced the remaining ones out of reach for many of those who can least afford an automobile. No doubt the program was well intentioned to help keep domestic production afloat during recovery but it did not take an economic genius to figure out the repercussions on our poorest communities would be to pile a larger mountain of debt on top of them as they were forced to take out larger loans in order to have an automobile.

So do you agree with me that federal intervention ergo monetizing problem areas such as the auto industry is a bad idea? Or do you agree with docyabut that Trump is particularly a genius who's going to wheel and deal better deals for all the stoopid people?

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So do you agree with me that federal intervention ergo monetizing problem areas such as the auto industry is a bad idea? Or do you agree with docyabut that Trump is particularly a genius who's going to wheel and deal better deals for all the stoopid people?

I think the government needs scaled back immensely. Bailouts should not have happened. "To big to fail" is simply a means to prolong the status quo. Propping up automakers saved some short term pain but also stifled entrepreneurial innovation which may have occured. Bailing out the large financial institutions merely promulgated a "business as usual" mindset in the upper echelon instead of spreading their client base into smaller more stable institutions.

In regard to Trump's deal making abilities I find them moot as he now is viewed as a reality tv caricature by a large part of the international community in the same way as Putin, Iran, and N. Korea seem to view Obama as timid. The democratic party will not work with him seeing as the GOP seem to be doing everything they can to ensure he is not the candidate regardless of their voter's wishes. Neither Trump or Sanders if elected will be able to accomplish anything on their ticket out of pure spite from the leaders controlling their parties. Simply for not bowing out and letting the establishment candidate chosen by their respective party leaders have their expected due. Third Party candidates should be praying for a Trump/Sanders race as it is their best chance to siphon off enough votes to force the media to include their candidates in the debates for the next election cycle.

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I think 3rd parties can siphon off of Clinton most of all, she's the establishment candidate. Trump and Sanders are already perceived as being alternatives to the establishment, making them more siphon-proof.

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Stopping a Clinton is no small task but the GOP is submissively and necessarily placing their worst contender against her onto the field. What percentage of the US votes can Trump get in the general election at this point? 38%?

He'd get killed if the election was tomorrow. So, what would you guys like Donald Trump to say to Hillary Clinton between now and the election to turn the tide of the war?

BTW, have those black guys who "got a chopper in the trunk for Donald Trump" been visited by the Secret Service yet?

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...BTW, have those black guys who "got a chopper in the trunk for Donald Trump" been visited by the Secret Service yet?

That part. I'm curious as to what the allusion is to. I'm at a loss.

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