Doc Socks Junior Posted July 11, 2015 #251 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Norbert, you raise valid concerns, but valid concerns in certain areas don't negate valid concerns in other areas. Also, excellent avoidance of Fess asking if you'd taking 13 million illegals. Very Neo-esque. *insert GIF of Matrix bullet-dodging 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted July 11, 2015 #252 Share Posted July 11, 2015 As Ron Paul has noted on many occasions building a wall serves two purposes. Sure it can be used to keep people out but historically it also can be used to keep people inside. The solution to the illegal immigration problem is solved by ending the incentive which draws them there. Crossing illegally across the border is the means to get to this incentive. End the welfare state and the problem is solved. It's pretty simple really. Or, as usual in America, allow the infestation of cultural collectivism to continue to manifest and argue with yourselves until your face goes blue..... red, white and blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted July 11, 2015 #253 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I agree with acidhead. A wall is a fun idea but we do need to crush the incentives further and foremost. And no Norbert it isn't the "only" thing but is just one major thing that needs put in check. Again though, why don't you harbor the world's downtrodden? We do enough but I'm sick of it being expected and sick of others feeling entitled to our generosity. Why is it that the needs of America's citizens are second to the desires of what everyone elsethinks we should do for everyone else? I know why you won't take up my offer to take our illegals. Because you don't want to and it isn't your responsibility to care for them which is understandable but why should we have to? Why is it our burden? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.ZZ. Posted July 11, 2015 #254 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Problem with the wall idea is that 33%-50% of illegal immigrants are visa over stayers who just fly in on airplanes. Then there are those who abuse the Border Crossing Card system. All a wall does is give more taxpayer money to states like Texas who already get way more than what they pay back. And we really can't p*** off Mexico for that matter either because we moved a good chunk of our manufacturing there. It's all this business and trade that is making the border porous in the first place. If someone really wanted to solve the immigration problem, we would have to change the constitution to get rid of anchor babies, change how we do our work visas ( or do away with them), and actually punish businesses and owners that hire them (like Donald Trump). If there is nothing for them to come to, they will not come. Is this just more Texas bashing from you or do you have proof of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 11, 2015 #255 Share Posted July 11, 2015 http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20120805-texas-can-no-longer-complain-that-it-gives-more-than-it-gets-from-federal-government.ece and https://www.nationalpriorities.org/smart/texas/dynamic/ Telling a known truth isn't bashing by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Krupe Posted July 11, 2015 #256 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) As Ron Paul has noted on many occasions building a wall serves two purposes. Sure it can be used to keep people out but historically it also can be used to keep people inside. The solution to the illegal immigration problem is solved by ending the incentive which draws them there. Crossing illegally across the border is the means to get to this incentive. End the welfare state and the problem is solved. It's pretty simple really. Or, as usual in America, allow the infestation of cultural collectivism to continue to manifest and argue with yourselves until your face goes blue..... red, white and blue. Why don't we just lower ourselves to below the level of Mexico? That would de-incentivize people. After all, isn't that what a lot of people are claiming is happening to America anyway? And just how do you end the welfare state? Stop paying welfare benefits and other entitlements? Your post reminds me of this classic cartoon: Edited July 11, 2015 by Leo Krupe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 11, 2015 #257 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) Yeah, should see it as a compliment that, despite everything that's happened since there was last a President worthy of the name, the US is still seen as the country everyone wants to get to. That's how to see it. Think positive. Edited July 11, 2015 by Norbert the Incredible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.ZZ. Posted July 11, 2015 #258 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) http://www.dallasnew...-government.ece and https://www.national.../texas/dynamic/ Telling a known truth isn't bashing by the way. From your first link: But a 2011 report by the Government Accountability Office found that all 50 states received more than they paid from 2005 to 2009; Texas got $1.03 for every dollar it paid in gas taxes. Your other link shows that Texas ranks 46th out of 50 in receiving more than they "give back". Yeah, Texas gets "Way more than they give back". By the way, how did your state do? Edited July 11, 2015 by ZZ430 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted July 11, 2015 #259 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) Yeah, should see it as a compliment that, despite everything that's happened since there was last a President worthy of the name, the US is still seen as the country everyone wants to get to. That's how to see it. Think positive. Yes and we want to take everyone in... The right way. It's almost no different than leaving your door open for strangers to crash your house and expect you to pay them for it be it food, shelter or money. I guess you're one of those guys who doesn't believe in borders huh? Edited July 11, 2015 by F3SS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted July 11, 2015 #260 Share Posted July 11, 2015 After seeing a couple references to a wall "keeping people in" I have to wonder: how many US citizens try to cross the border on foot through the desert to sneak into Mexico? I'm not arguing either for or against the wall at this point, just trying to keep the arguments already presented on an even keel. If the worst that can be said about a wall is that it keeps people in, that might be bad for the one or two affected but it's really not much of an argument against it. Even with a wall there would still be legal border crossing points. I'm sure most travelers to Mexico use these already and therefore wouldn't be inconvenienced in the slightest. On the other hand it might help to deter the thousands who travel from south to north knowing from the outset that they will be trying to enter illegally. If that was not their intention then they would also use the legal crossing points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 11, 2015 #261 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Your other link shows that Texas ranks 46th out of 50 in receiving more than they "give back". Yeah, Texas gets "Way more than they give back". By the way, how did your state do? Two things: 1: I don't rally care about Texas other than I would rather not give more money to receiver states. 2: I don't think you are understanding the links I provided. There is more to receiving federal money than gas tax and the chart you are referencing where Texas ranks 46 out of 50 is how much an individual resident gets. If you actually read the article you will see that Texas contributes 221 billion while taking 238 billion for a net contribution of -17 billion. You are right about Iowa. It is also a recipient state. We pay 18.4 billion and take 27 billion for a net contribution of -9 billion. And for the record I am totally against spending tens of billions of tax dollars building a worthless wall in Iowa as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted July 12, 2015 #262 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) I too do not believe that the will to actually build a wall exists. Even if it's possible it is one hell of grandiose claim to say that a wall will be built by US and paid for by Mexico seemingly just because he says that they will. Edited July 12, 2015 by F3SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted July 12, 2015 #263 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Why don't we just lower ourselves to below the level of Mexico? That would de-incentivize people. After all, isn't that what a lot of people are claiming is happening to America anyway? Or we could just be serious and do some homework instead. End easy citizenship, either birthright or amnesty. Does that make us lower than Mexico, whatever that means? It would only take a miracle because of toffee nosed liberals and conservatives pining for minority votes every election season and making scapegoats out of illegal immigrants. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted July 16, 2015 #264 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well on the bright side the IS hasn't claimed all this as part of their nefarious strategy and devious scheme ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.ZZ. Posted July 19, 2015 #265 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Well, The Donald sure stepped in it this time: http://www.nytimes.c...war-record.html Now he is scrambling to explain it. It's not working. http://www.huffingto...b065dfe89e9162? Edited July 19, 2015 by ZZ430 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted July 19, 2015 #266 Share Posted July 19, 2015 "He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.” said the Donald. Classic Trumpspeak! Translation: He likes winners. He doesn't like losers. And the GOP field responds to Trump's shameless slander: “Donald Trump owes every American veteran and in particular John McCain an apology,” said Rick Perry. “Here’s what I think they’re going to say: ‘Donald Trump, you’re fired,’ ” Lindsey Graham said. “I unequivocally denounce him,” Mr. Walker said. "Duh? I really like Donald Trump, a whole, whole bunch." thought Ted Cruz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KariW Posted July 19, 2015 #267 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Well, The Donald sure stepped in it this time: it was only a matter of time...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 19, 2015 #268 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Well, The Donald sure stepped in it this time: http://www.nytimes.c...war-record.html Now he is scrambling to explain it. It's not working. http://www.huffingto...b065dfe89e9162? Actually if you read down toward the bottom, some of the other things he said about the subject of religion show a rather refreshing flippancy. He seems rather refreshingly down to earth on that subject, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted July 19, 2015 #269 Share Posted July 19, 2015 “Well, I was turned off at the very start because I didn’t like his language,” Becky Kruse, of Lovilia, Iowa, said of Mr. Trump, not mentioning his comments about Mr. McCain. Ms. Kruse said she likes Mr. Trump’s hard line on immigration and came to the event considering him. “I was not too impressed,” she said, noting Mr. Trump’s comment about not seeking God’s forgiveness. “He sounds like he isn’t really a born-again Christian.” Forget Trump's attack on McCain and his military service - this is the reason Trump won't accede to the Presidency. He isn't religious enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 19, 2015 #270 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Forget Trump's attack on McCain and his military service - this is the reason Trump won't accede to the Presidency. He isn't religious enough. Well, I can't forget that there are Chicken Hawks who got themselves 3 deferrals during the Vietnam era (the last for "medical reasons") criticizing those who did their duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KariW Posted July 19, 2015 #271 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Personally, I couldn't care less about Trump's personal relationship with God - totally unimportant to me. He could be an atheist, and I would be fine with it! His views on the current status of our economy is far more important, IMO. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted July 19, 2015 #272 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Seeing that he's always talking about his own personal business dealings in seemingly every speech, and granted that he made $360 million in income last year, the economy must be doing just fine for him. What does a real estate investor who banks hundreds of millions a year know about the state of the economy? What does Trump care about people who don't make as much money as he does? He hates losers. He couldn't care less about people barely making ends meet. For him to have some kind of populist message showing concern or compassion for the little guy? Donald Trump is as far away from that as any hypothetical candidate could be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted July 19, 2015 #273 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Like Donald said and what many heard ... Mr Trump is just gonna pay the bill to make America great again ... more discerning citizens would have heard something else between the breaths ~ ~ edit : never mind Edited July 19, 2015 by third_eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted July 19, 2015 #274 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Personally, I couldn't care less about Trump's personal relationship with God - totally unimportant to me. He could be an atheist, and I would be fine with it! His views on the current status of our economy is far more important, IMO. His views? What view is that? That the economy is NOT in good shape right now? Pretty sure that is the view of every single presidential candidate. But, Donald Trump is taking the typical political stance (Democrat or Republican)..."The economy is bad..I'm going to fix it! I'm not going to tell you how I will do it though!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Krupe Posted July 19, 2015 #275 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Here's a clip of what to expect under President Trump: Edited July 19, 2015 by Leo Krupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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