Area 51 and extra-terrestrial life both exist

[Merc14]

I am surprised at the reaction to any condemnation of nasa and their policies

It is a reaction to people making things up whole cloth in support of their conspiracy theories that generates a response. It is the sheer stupidity of assuming that NASA is the only space agency on earth and therefore is in control of all information regarding space that gets people riled. NASA is far from perfect and its decisions are bound by politics and the public's fickleness about spending money on space exploration but this constant screech about covering up discoveries gets old after awhile, especially when the evidence is based on ignorance.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Merc14

[Shouldthisexist]

It is a reaction to people making things up whole cloth in support of their conspiracy theories that generates a response. It is the sheer stupidity of assuming that NASA is the only space agency on earth and therefore is in control of all information regarding space that gets people riled. NASA is far from perfect and its decisions are bound by politics and the public's fickleness about spending money on space exploration but this constant screech about covering up discoveries gets old after awhile, especially when the evidence is based on ignorance.

I was watching star talk last Monday night, and Neil degrease Tyson interviewed mr NASA director and he made a interesting statement. Bear with me this is a loose statement he made. He said that NASA has tried to set the goals but it will be the private companies and everyone else to push the envelope and help make new discoveries.

[Sundew]

Fact: Area 51 or its equivalent exists and is most likely a military testing facility for new and exotic aircraft as far as I can tell.

Supposition: Alien life exists. Statistically that is likely, given the number of planets in the universe, but to my knowledge absolute proof is still lacking.

Probable fantasy: We have captured alien spacecraft at Area 51. Doubtful, but who knows; the base is generally off limits.

[Merc14]

I was watching star talk last Monday night, and Neil degrease Tyson interviewed mr NASA director and he made a interesting statement. Bear with me this is a loose statement he made. He said that NASA has tried to set the goals but it will be the private companies and everyone else to push the envelope and help make new discoveries.

I'd have to see exactly what he said and in what context but they have been pushing a philosophy of NASA teaming with industry to push the boundaries of exploration and exploitation of space resources. SpaceX is a good example of how that teaming works. I think they want to go more into the field of studying distant space and how the universe works and leave traveling to the Moon to industry as NASA has already broken the code on how to do that. Personally I think it is a rational philosophy to have given the ups and downs that go along with being a government entity. The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) is NASA's job rather than repeating a trip to the Moon because industry would have little interest in building a JWST.

[Shouldthisexist]

I'd have to see exactly what he said and in what context but they have been pushing a philosophy of NASA teaming with industry to push the boundaries of exploration and exploitation of space resources. SpaceX is a good example of how that teaming works. I think they want to go more into the field of studying distant space and how the universe works and leave traveling to the Moon to industry as NASA has already broken the code on how to do that. Personally I think it is a rational philosophy to have given the ups and downs that go along with being a government entity. The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) is NASA's job rather than repeating a trip to the Moon because industry would have little interest in building a JWST.

I apologize I have been searching for a link but haven't been able to find one yet that isn't the whole episode. It was stated about how they could apply advancements they where developing in space for more commercial use around the world was a project of NASAs.

And I was mentioning all this to try and help show some people reading a sometimes over looked point. There are plenty of private space agencies and such that have amazing programs. So the theory that " government controlled " NASA is keeping all these space secrets is mind boggling to me.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Shouldthisexist

[badeskov]

I am surprised at the reaction to any condemnation of nasa and their policies

Really? Would you mind elaborating on that point a bit?

Cheers,

Badeskov

[psyche101]

So where's all this swamp gas is coming from?

UFOlogy.

Yeah well I don't exactly trust NASA with the truth and neither do alot of others.

Who do you trust?

Bob Lazar?

[psyche101]

You make a strong point. The militarization of space would become our top priority.

Yeah, but the FTB's are not going to go for common sense. They are going to tell us they are already here and being covered up, so NASA would not get anything.

[psyche101]

Like anyone with a soul and a good heart cares what this nasa random has to say about anything. Liars they all are in my opinion.

LOL, it takes a soul and a heart to see through the nefarious plans of NASA does it?? No brains or anything like that?

LOL - you are right, a brain would not let you get this far.

[psyche101]

I am surprised at the reaction to any condemnation of nasa and their policies

Not surprised at hearing the same old same old CT garbage again and again.......

You do realise that NASA is a civilian agency right?

Edgar Mitchell is an Astronaut who is well known for being outspoken on the ET visitation subject, was a former Astronaut, and insists that NASA is on the level. I do not agree with his alien musings, but his experience cannot be questioned and his outspoken support of the ETH illustrates no NASA friendly bias..

Edited June 22, 2015 by psyche101

[H132]

I'm kinda of confused as to what NASA has to do with Area 51 to begin with in order to make such a statement. While Area 51 is a military installation, NASA is a civilian space program. I mean, sure this does not mean that there isn't plenty of military/civilian interaction between government and NASA (as we know) but will a super-secret Military operation simply be thrown into the mix with a civilian based operation? I don't think so.

NASA (specifically Bolden) is simply making bias and compartmentalized statements on things they are not even fully integrated with - based on a "visit". It would be like me saying "There is no such thing as Bigfoot" having visited only the edge of the woods (or even just a few feet into it). They are not simply going to take Bolden into Area 51 and start him off with a nice little tour of the UFO holding centers followed up by a handshake with an Alien.

Besides, if anyone here is keeping up with the general consensus of things, it is 'believed' that all of the alien technology is kept southwest of Area 51 in nearby S4 and/or relocated to Dulce and other locations unknown.

Furthermore, the non-existence of aliens or ships at area 51 doesn't imply that it was never there. Neither does it insinuate that it could not have been moved elsewhere or originated elsewhere.

All in all, Bolden is just another man who was never privy to the truth because, as ex-Military Intelligence, I do know that the last person you want to feed ATS information to is someone who will be making a lot of public statements. The US President didn't even have my level of clearance... and I was never privy to any alien or UFO operations. On that note, I think that Bolden is full of crap and most likely was not even visiting Area 51 but was actually in (his words exactly) "a place called that".

[Emma_Acid]

Yeah well I don't exactly trust NASA with the truth and neither do alot of others.

Firstly - so what.

Secondly - I love how people voice their desperate mistrust of Nasa based on absolutely nothing at all. "Never a straight answer!!!!" - you mean, the answers they've given don't match up with the version of reality you have in your head.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

Thread cleaned.

A couple of points here:

If you make extravagant claims without evidence it is unreasonable to expect that they won't be questioned.

It is unacceptable to make personal attacks. That includes accusing people of being trolls simply because they DO question your claims.

Now can we discuss the topic without bickering please.

[Merc14]

I'm kinda of confused as to what NASA has to do with Area 51 to begin with in order to make such a statement. While Area 51 is a military installation, NASA is a civilian space program. I mean, sure this does not mean that there isn't plenty of military/civilian interaction between government and NASA (as we know) but will a super-secret Military operation simply be thrown into the mix with a civilian based operation? I don't think so.

NASA (specifically Bolden) is simply making bias and compartmentalized statements on things they are not even fully integrated with - based on a "visit". It would be like me saying "There is no such thing as Bigfoot" having visited only the edge of the woods (or even just a few feet into it). They are not simply going to take Bolden into Area 51 and start him off with a nice little tour of the UFO holding centers followed up by a handshake with an Alien.

Besides, if anyone here is keeping up with the general consensus of things, it is 'believed' that all of the alien technology is kept southwest of Area 51 in nearby S4 and/or relocated to Dulce and other locations unknown.

Furthermore, the non-existence of aliens or ships at area 51 doesn't imply that it was never there. Neither does it insinuate that it could not have been moved elsewhere or originated elsewhere.

All in all, Bolden is just another man who was never privy to the truth because, as ex-Military Intelligence, I do know that the last person you want to feed ATS information to is someone who will be making a lot of public statements. The US President didn't even have my level of clearance... and I was never privy to any alien or UFO operations. On that note, I think that Bolden is full of crap and most likely was not even visiting Area 51 but was actually in (his words exactly) "a place called that".

Bolden was asked a question by a 10 year old British boy about aliens at Area 51 and he answered with the below statement which was subsequently overblown by a reporter from the Telegraph. Also, remember that Bolden was a Major General in the USMC so very well could've visited a restricted area in the desert. The article is here as per the OP http://www.telegraph...ad-of-Nasa.html

Asked by 10-year-old Carmen Dearing if he believed in aliens, he said: "I do believe that we will someday find other forms of life or a form of life, if not in our solar system then in some of the other solar systems - the billions of solar systems in the universe.

“Today we know that there are literally thousands, if not millions of other planets, many of which may be very similar to our own earth. So some of us, many of us believe that we're going to find...evidence that there is life elsewhere in the universe."

Major Bolden also admitted that Area 51 existed but said the US government was not hiding alien life there.

“There is an Area 51,” he said. “It’s not what many people think. I’ve been to a place called that but it’s a normal research and development place. I never saw any aliens or alien spacecraft or anything when I was there. I think because of the secrecy of the aeronautics research that goes on there it’s ripe for people to talk about aliens being there.”

Edited June 22, 2015 by Merc14

[Calibeliever]

Not a strong point at all,The impracticality of arming space vessels for war is infinite.

You underestimate the human ego. No matter how futile the attempt, if we really felt there was a threat from space we would attempt to counter it with every resource at our disposal. We'd throw rocks at them if we had to. We are stupid like that. The only other explanation (if we really knew aliens existed and were capable of destroying us) would be that the aliens are already running our governments and military. And if that's the case, then they aren't doing any better job of it than humans.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Calibeliever

[Suttho Reme]

So let me add this: every one of us realizes, that if the man was being honest, he would have had to have added, "Of course, if Area 51 WERE holding evidence of alien craft or even possible evidence of alien technology in any manner whatsoever, it WOULD be beyond top secret, and for national security and other reasons, I would be required to deny the existence of such evidence, right? But no, it's not there."

Because we all know that, by definition, keeping a secret does require that one does not divulge that secret, or even allow for its existence. Deny, deny, deny. It's the only "honest" way to keep a secret- 100%.

[Merc14]

So let me add this: every one of us realizes, that if the man was being honest, he would have had to have added, "Of course, if Area 51 WERE holding evidence of alien craft or even possible evidence of alien technology in any manner whatsoever, it WOULD be beyond top secret, and for national security and other reasons, I would be required to deny the existence of such evidence, right? But no, it's not there."

Because we all know that, by definition, keeping a secret does require that one does not divulge that secret, or even allow for its existence. Deny, deny, deny. It's the only "honest" way to keep a secret- 100%.

I think you are missing the point here, which is that the head of NASA just declared that it is almost guaranteed that life exists off of earth. This is now the official , for al intents and purposes, stand of the US on extraterrestrial life. This I the big news, not his answer about Area 51 and aliens that some 10 year old asked him (because 10 year olds believe this stuff but adults shouldn't).

[Celia-Lilly]

I don't think that extraterrestrial life should be limited at exoplanets. On earth we have so many different species living in so many different environments. For example, there are microorganisms that can survive in extremely hot and dark places and we've got plants that purely survive off of carbon dioxide. I think a lot of planets that may come across as lifeless to us, probably have a lot of life swarming on it. The only thing we would benefit from finding earth-like planets would be the fact there could be a small chance in finding an intelligent life form like ourselves. But extraterrestrial life is everywhere, hence we can't even have the same species on the same planet as there are thousands of different life-forms on our planet, so it would only be naïve to think that earth species are the only species in the universe

[Merc14]

I don't think that extraterrestrial life should be limited at exoplanets. On earth we have so many different species living in so many different environments. For example, there are microorganisms that can survive in extremely hot and dark places and we've got plants that purely survive off of carbon dioxide. I think a lot of planets that may come across as lifeless to us, probably have a lot of life swarming on it. The only thing we would benefit from finding earth-like planets would be the fact there could be a small chance in finding an intelligent life form like ourselves. But extraterrestrial life is everywhere, hence we can't even have the same species on the same planet as there are thousands of different life-forms on our planet, so it would only be naïve to think that earth species are the only species in the universe

Just so you know, an exoplanet is ANY planet that exists outside our star's influence, not just those in the "habitable zone" and welcome to UM! That said, I think most would agree with you that life can exist in the most extreme of conditions, in places that were unimaginable just a decade ago. The problem, I am guessing, is that those life forms will be much harder to find and prove they exist than life that operates on a calmer planet. Plus we know what to look for on a "earth-like" given the conditions are similar to ours. Exciting times.

[Shouldthisexist]

Just so you know, an exoplanet is ANY planet that exists outside our star's influence, not just those in the "habitable zone" and welcome to UM! That said, I think most would agree with you that life can exist in the most extreme of conditions, in places that were unimaginable just a decade ago. The problem, I am guessing, is that those life forms will be much harder to find and prove they exist than life that operates on a calmer planet. Plus we know what to look for on a "earth-like" given the conditions are similar to ours. Exciting times.

Yes this seems to be the common problem with finding life. There is every chance that life could be different then ours. The problem is as merc stated we don't know what to look for. It's a Easter egg hunt so to say but we don't know if we are looking for eggs or something totally different.

And I think we search mainly in the habitable zones because with the limited amount of resources those are the most likely to sustain life. So science isn't trying to rule out the others just doing the best they can with what they have.

[aquatus1]

Extra-terrestrial life does exist, the head of Nasa has confirmed...

No. No, he did not.

Nasa Administrator Major Charles Frank Bolder Jr said that alien life does exist...

No. No, he did not.

"I do believe that we will someday find other forms of life or a form of life, if not in our solar system then in some of the other solar systems - the billions of solar systems in the universe. Today we know that there are literally thousands, if not millions of other planets, many of which may be very similar to our own earth. So some of us, many of us believe that we're going to find...evidence that there is life elsewhere in the universe."

There we go.

[Leo Krupe]

No. No, he did not.

No. No, he did not.

There we go.

It's astonishing how people twist words around, isn't it? The positive side of my brain says it's just human fallibility, but the cynical side says it's deliberate.

[badeskov]

In Denmark we have DTU Space, which I am sure you know really means "Danish Taste Unbelievable in Space".

We are also members of ESA, or the "Evil Space Aliens".

Yup. And DTU space has made some quite remarkable contributions givens it's size and funding.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[Leo Krupe]

Yup. And DTU space has made some quite remarkable contributions givens it's size and funding.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Serious question, because I honestly don't know, and would like to. Would you name some? That's not snark, or sarcasm, and I don't doubt it, but I'd like to be educated. Thanks.

[badeskov]

Serious question, because I honestly don't know, and would like to. Would you name some? That's not snark, or sarcasm, and I don't doubt it, but I'd like to be educated. Thanks.

No worries, Leo. DTU Space is a fairly new institution at DTU (or, internationally know as TUD - Technical University of Denmark). It was established in 2007 ( I moved to the US in 2001, but know a few folks there as even though it was not established when I got my degree, but I was a few buildings away from where it is now and know a few folks there), not from scratch, but from assimilating different and diversely located space exploration activities that dated back to the 1960's.

They are too small for independent missions in space, but specialize in magnetic and optical sensors for international missions.Here is an example of an upcoming mission they are in on, but they have been on numerous previous missions with their gear. Again, they are a small entity and so are their contributions, but personally I find them pretty amazing given their size and funding. Maybe personal bias a bit ;-)

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited June 26, 2015 by badeskov