Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

[Passing Time]

currently reading Barddas - a collection of original documents, illustrative of Welsh/Cymric/Celtic MS .

interestingly it says :- there were 10 symbols/letters in the possesion of the Cymry from the very beginning , even

before they came to Britain from the area of Syria , these 10 symbols were kept as a secret by the druidic record

keepers of the nation.

later in the time of Dyvnwal Moelmud ap Dyvnvarth ap Prydain , a new speech was inaugurated , with 16 new letters

(symbols ) different from the 10 , and Moelmud divulged these 16 to the keepers of the Law of the land.

later in the time of Beli Mawr ( Beli or Heli the Great )son of Manog , King Paramount of Britain , these 16 letters were

given to more of the people , he decreed that no King , Judge or Teacher should obtain office without being in

possesion of the knowledge of the 16 symbols .

In the time of Taliesin the symbols were extended to 18 , and were also given to the Bards. Later still these principal

letters were again increased to 20 letters by Geraint the Blue Bard.

At the time of the uprising of Owain Glyndwyr the number of letters had risen to 24 , however the uprising was defeated

and in punishment the Welsh were prohibited from the use of their letters , by banning use of velum and paper , and

the destruction of many of the old records...........The Bards, teachers and recorders were forced into re-introducing

the use of the old 10 symbols and the cutting of them on sticks , and engraving of them on stone (the old Coelbren

alphabet ).......sieve and basket makers would carve the old alphabet into their products , and sell them to the people

who sought the knowledge of the sybols , under the noses of those that had banned the newer letters. and the knowledge of these symbols has now continued down to those now living.

The Welsh now say they can date in some cases their MS , by the number of letters used in their composition , just had a thought that over the years of interest in OLB , whether anyone has made a study of the number of letters used in the earlier compositions , to see if there were later additions of extra letters (symbols ) in some of the later sections ?????

i have seen it mentioned here that some spellings of some words change from earlier to later authors , how about the number of symbols used .

Edited May 2, 2016 by Passing Time

[Tony S.]

The first plan for the Wewelsburg estate, from 1941 (below, left), has a large circular road, 1270 metres in diameter, surrounding an inner, circular wall, 680 metres in diameter, with radial access roads in a six-spoked wheel design, centred on the north tower. In the second plan, from 1944 (below, middle), the large outer road has been abandoned, and the triangular construction to the south of the castle has a different shape. There are numerous other changes in detail. Note also that because of the original configuration of the castle, the Jol symbol created by the ground plan is tilted -15 degrees from true north, as can be seen when it is overlaid on a modern map (below, right).

[Tony S.]

Viewed from the south, the castle looks like this:

The north tower is at the top of the picture. When the vault was constructed in its basement in the 1930s, the intention was that the room should be entered from the castle's inner courtyard, through the entrance in the south wall of the north tower. The necessary staircase, however, was never completed.

Entering the crypt from the south, and facing north, the steps into the circular fire pit are directly ahead. On the far side of the pit, in the north, is a block of stone. At -60 and +60 degrees from this are two more blocks of stones, corresponding to the two upper diagonal spokes of the Jol. The perpetually burning flame in the middle, marking the exact centre of all the circles described above, would have been fed by two gas pipes laid under the stone floor, though it was never lit.

I'm preparing a paper on this for a peer-reviewed journal, and would welcome any suggestions.

[Tony S.]

Looking at the -15 degree tilt from true north a little more closely, I think I may have solved another mystery, namely, the meaning of the so-called "Black Sun" mosaic. Though there is no evidence it was called that at the time, the "Black Sun" mosaic is located on the floor of the room above the crypt, and therefore directly over the fire pit. Here's a view facing north:

Or in fact, not precisely north, as the following diagram shows. The window on the right of the central pillar faces north, whereas the pillar (one of 12 in the room) is -15 degrees from true north. For convenience I'll call this the "axis of the mosaic" and have illustrated it below, by placing a Jol symbol in the tower, rotated -15 degrees.

Here's a view facing south:

Again, not exactly south. Also notice that the spokes are misaligned between the two photos. This is because the door to the tower is neither in the south, nor on the axis of the mosaic (as I've defined it above), a consequence of the asymmetrical layout of the castle (see model in previous post). The difference between the axis of the mosaic and and the angle of the door is another 15 degrees.

The 15 degree difference between the axis of the mosaic and true north is, I believe, referenced in the design of the mosaic itself, with its L-shaped spokes. If we rotate the mosaic by 15 degress and lay it over itself, we get the following:

A wheel with 24 spokes, and 4 concentric circles. Once again we see the Jol, hidden in full view.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Tony S.

[Tony S.]

In the following diagram I have overlaid a Jol symbol with the "Black Sun" mosaic:

The Jol symbol is rotated -15 from true north, and is aligned to what I have called the "axis of the mosaic". The door to the tower is located -15 degrees from the axis (i.e. -30 degrees from true south).

[Ell]

The chandelier appears to have eight spokes.

[Passing Time]

Looking at the -15 degree tilt from true north a little more closely, I think I may have solved another mystery, namely, the meaning of the so-called "Black Sun" mosaic. Though there is no evidence it was called that at the time, the "Black Sun" mosaic is located on the floor of the room above the crypt, and therefore directly over the fire pit. Here's a view facing north:

Or in fact, not precisely north, as the following diagram shows. The window on the right of the central pillar faces north, whereas the pillar (one of 12 in the room) is -15 degrees from true north. For convenience I'll call this the "axis of the mosaic" and have illustrated it below, by placing a Jol symbol in the tower, rotated -15 degrees.

So what is your thinking Tony......does the Black centre indicate Big Bang , then the long North/South etc lines show where

North / South was for millenia , until the outside of the circle is more recent times ......and the diagram is showing how the

alignment of North/South has been knocked off its axis by 15 degrees.

[Tony S.]

So what is your thinking Tony......does the Black centre indicate Big Bang , then the long North/South etc lines show where

North / South was for millenia , until the outside of the circle is more recent times ......and the diagram is showing how the

alignment of North/South has been knocked off its axis by 15 degrees.

Nothing so cosmic, in my opinion, and I have serious doubts that the term "Black Sun" was ever applied to the mosaic by its builders (though I'm willing to be convinced otherwise). The ends of its spokes are offset from the main parts of the spokes by 15 degrees, as a result of the L-shapes. This precisely mirrors the fact that the axis of the Jol symbol laid out in the plans for the surrounding countryside is offset from true north by exactly the same amount, 15 degrees. The design, therefore, was simply a consequence of this.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Tony S.

[Passing Time]

Ok so they were aware of the 15 degree offset ,as shown by the diagram...... and built according to it ....... then the question becomes why !......... Alewyn ?

http://impactsurvivors.com/

Edited May 10, 2016 by Passing Time

[Tony S.]

Ok so they were aware of the 15 degree offset ,as shown by the diagram...... and built according to it ....... then the question becomes why !......... Alewyn ?

http://impactsurvivors.com/

The -15 offset from true north displayed by the plans for the circular constructions around the castle are caused by the configuration of the castle itself. The plans preserve and vastly extend the triangular shape of its walls, and these are similarly offset. Why the castle was offset like this is another question, and could be simply as a result of the landscape.

[Passing Time]

Viewed from the south, the castle looks like this:

The north tower is at the top of the picture. When the vault was constructed in its basement in the 1930s, the intention was that the room should be entered from the castle's inner courtyard, through the entrance in the south wall of the north tower. The necessary staircase, however, was never completed.

Entering the crypt from the south, and facing north, the steps into the circular fire pit are directly ahead. On the far side of the pit, in the north, is a block of stone. At -60 and +60 degrees from this are two more blocks of stones, corresponding to the two upper diagonal spokes of the Jol. The perpetually burning flame in the middle, marking the exact centre of all the circles described above, would have been fed by two gas pipes laid under the stone floor, though it was never lit.

I'm preparing a paper on this for a peer-reviewed journal, and would welcome any suggestions.

In the Fire Pit is the North Stone in the North , or on the 15 degree offset ?

[Tony S.]

In the Fire Pit is the North Stone in the North , or on the 15 degree offset ?

I don't know, unfortunately. When I e-mailed the castle museum they were very unforthcoming. Here's an example of a photo that shows the smaller crypt windows from the outside:

They appear to be offset from the larger windows in the room above by 15 degrees. This would make the stone in the north of the fire pit exactly due north. But I would prefer to wait until an on-site investigation can be conducted.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Tony S.

[Van Gorp]

Ok so they were aware of the 15 degree offset ,as shown by the diagram...... and built according to it ....... then the question becomes why !......... Alewyn ?

http://impactsurvivors.com/

I just came to see that on the website you linked to, the biography is not yet updated (cfr passing away).

The last modification date seem to be 27th april 2014, which corresponds with the time of Alewyn's passing away (April 30 2014).

I wonder also what significance of the 15 degree offset could mean in the 'black sun' symbol.

It is striking that it corresponds 1 hour(if you look at the symbol as an 24hours clock) or 1/2 hour (on a 12hour clock scale). Why are our clocks anyway 12h?.

Could it be 1/2 month? I have the feeling time is related in some form ... nevertheless...

Could this 'offset' in the symbol be related also with the sun being 'higher' before aldland sunk? Hence, also maybe a shift in moment of rise/fall of the sun?

Also the direction by which Fryas land is described before Aldland sunk, is done by an approx 45-90 degree alteration of the cardinal directions we know today.

"By morne paldon wi ovir it uter ende thes aster-sê, by êvind an thene middelsê"

Eastward (rising sun) our boundary went to the extremity of the East Sea, and westward (setting sun) to the Mediterranean Sea (popular translation)

This is what Albert Delahaye was saying altogether: our present West was the North in an earlier time (by which our present South was the earlier West), only the 'modern' time Delahaye is talking about occurs much later then 2000 years BC.

I keep finding it strange that OLB would have 'years' as the standard for describing in earlier times still earlier periods.

I thought that the first (and by wide a much more practical) counter used as a counting standard were the cycles of the moon instead of the sun (present notion of year).

Could there have occured (not only in OLB) a general misunderstanding of related timeframes in the past, by neglecting what kind of "year" one is talking about?

Edited May 11, 2016 by Van Gorp

[Tony S.]

I just came to see that on the website you linked to, the biography is not yet updated (cfr passing away).

The last modification date seem to be 27th april 2014, which corresponds with the time of Alewyn's passing away (April 30 2014).

I wonder also what significance of the 15 degree offset could mean in the 'black sun' symbol.

It is striking that it corresponds 1 hour(if you look at the symbol as an 24hours clock) or 1/2 hour (on a 12hour clock scale). Why are our clocks anyway 12h?.

Could it be 1/2 month? I have the feeling time is related in some form ... nevertheless...

Could this 'offset' in the symbol be related also with the sun being 'higher' before aldland sunk? Hence, also maybe a shift in moment of rise/fall of the sun?

Also the direction by which Fryas land is described before Aldland sunk, is done by an approx 45-90 degree alteration of the cardinal directions we know today.

"By morne paldon wi ovir it uter ende thes aster-sê, by êvind an thene middelsê"

Eastward (rising sun) our boundary went to the extremity of the East Sea, and westward (setting sun) to the Mediterranean Sea (popular translation)

This is what Albert Delahaye was saying altogether: our present West was the North in an earlier time (by which our present South was the earlier West), only the 'modern' time Delahaye is talking about occurs much later then 2000 years BC.

I keep finding it strange that OLB would have 'years' as the standard for describing in earlier times still earlier periods.

I thought that the first (and by wide a much more practical) counter used as a counting standard were the cycles of the moon instead of the sun (present notion of year).

Could there have occured (not only in OLB) a general misunderstanding of related timeframes in the past, by neglecting what kind of "year" one is talking about?

A day of 24 hours is referenced in the OLB:

Thju ringdik thêra is en stonde grât, nên stjurar, men svnna stonde, hwêrfon twya twilif vppen etmelde kvma.

"The fortification outside is an hour long—not a seaman’s hour, but an hour of the sun, of which twenty-four go to a day." (Sandbach)

(Note that the original says "twice twelve" rather than "twenty-four", if this is significant)

I don't know, as yet, what the significance of 15 degrees is, other than its being 1/24 of a complete circle. A slippage of the pole is indeed a possibility, or perhaps it has something to do with the direction of the magnetic pole in previous millennia. Then again, maybe it signifies the position of an astronomical event, such as the rising of a particular star at the winter solstice in 2194 BC - Frya's watch star, perhaps? But this is pure speculation at the moment, and more work needs to be done.

[Passing Time]

I am just totally thinking out loud here , but isn't the black sun supposed to be the sun inside the earth , in the hollow

earth theory..... could it be refering to a crustal shift over the inner iron ball ........does not make it what happened,

but is there any evidence of the nazi's thinking it did ??

[Tony S.]

I am just totally thinking out loud here , but isn't the black sun supposed to be the sun inside the earth , in the hollow

earth theory..... could it be refering to a crustal shift over the inner iron ball ........does not make it what happened,

but is there any evidence of the nazi's thinking it did ??

There is no good evidence that the mosaic in the north tower was ever referred to as the Black Sun before the 1990s. It's true that Karl Wiligut had theories concerning old and new suns (though not a "black" sun), and it is he who chose Wewelsburg in the first place, but I think that the mosaic has been seriously misinterpreted in modern times. For example, every single online source I have found claims there is an identical design on a monument to Bismarck in Hamburg, but having found a photo of it, this claim is clearly wrong. The Hamburg design only has eight spokes:

There may well be some sort of cosmic symbolism involved in the various motifs found at Wewelsburg, but we should be very careful not to speculate beyond the evidence. It is obvious that the whole complex, with its perpetual flame and concentric Jol wheels, was inspired by the OLB. But beyond this, we cannot as yet say, without further investigation. I strongly suspect that a detailed survey of the castle will uncover more OLB symbolism, which has hitherto been overlooked by historians because they didn't know what they were looking for. In fact, I'll go further. As FromFinland reminded us a few months ago, Wiligut was no stranger to the OLB, having written the following:

The institution of girls' schools developed out of the extremely ancient "Modranekth."

²

[

²

"society of maidens"] [...] So, for example, it came about that virgins who were chosen as BURGMAIDENS had to conform special conditions. [...]

The corps of maidens was organized in four groups, which are: The lowest group, the HEXAS [witches], had as their duty the care and preservation of the eternal flame and its kindling for purposes of signaling (by day with smoke, by night with a bright flame)[*]. Fire was fetched from these women as a part of certain ceremonies or ritual (Ara-Ryta] for the lighting the hearth-fire of newly married couples. As a part of land-taking or new settlement ceremonies, or when perhaps the hearth-fire had gone out, fire was kindled from live coals from these eternal fires. The Hexas were initiated into herbology in some tribes and communities in addition to their service relevan to the fire. [...]

From this presentation of the basic division of the

Maidenschaft

it is clear what a deep meaning the position of women had in past times. In the clan she was the protector and irector of honor of men as well as women. In the tribe she was the representative of high idealistic flights of thought and the kindler of enthuasism for great aims in the interest of the tribe and folk. [...]

Closely connected to the cosmos, to the All and to God, and reflecting the rhytmic lwas of these in her soul, she was the bearer of the whole of our tradition in our prehistoric past. It was with this understanding that the education of the female youth was designed. [

The Secret King

, translated by Stephen Flowers, 2001.]

I suspect it was Wiligut who was behind the redesign of Wewelsburg to remodel it as a burch. But a burch without a buchfam and famna is no burch at all, so what did he have in mind? Rather than getting bogged down in speculation about geometry, this latter question, I believe, will be the most fruitful avenue of research.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Tony S.

[FromFinland]

[...] isn't the black sun supposed to be the sun inside the earth [...]

but is there any evidence of the nazi's thinking it did ??

Here's what mrs Gabriele Winckler-Dechend was able to tell in 1997 based in her close friendship with Wiligut and others in the 1930s:

[Q:] The inlay design in the floor of the colonnade hall of the Wewelsburg castle has been described, among other things, as a twelve-rayed "Black sun" (also "Sadaer" or "Santur"). The skalds of the Middle Ages were still familiar with the myth of the "Black Sun," which is long frozen and exists parallel to the active sun (SOL) and the passive/invisible sun (SUN). Wiligut seems to have passed corresponding information on to Emil Rüdiger. Can you say a bit about this? Did Himmler concern himself with such matters? Can the floor design in the Wewelsburg be understood in this sense?

[A:] It seems to me that a definite correlation between the "Black Sun" and the design in the colonnade hall is quite improbable. Only very recently [1990s?] have I heard anything about about a "Black Sun". I find this to a rather unusual theory, not to mention a foggy one. If the suggestion for the design is supposed to have come from the colonel [Wiligut], I would be more inclined to say that the "12" has to do with the zodiac and the other meanings to which the holy number corresponds. One need only recall for example the old night watchman's song, "Twelve young men stay true ...," or Egyptian number-mythology, which Emma Schiller (in those days her name was still Emma Delbrueck), a friend of my mother's and the colonel's, researched at lenght. In addition there was an event which had an immediate significance in this context: we were taking a walk with the colonel on the Hohentwiel, which he was very interested in because there werer a number of prehistoric sites there. On the way up I found a conspicuous stone in the shape of a semi-circle, about 12 centimeters wide, 9 centimeters high, and 2 centimeters thick. Because it apparently bore a sign, the colonel advised me to take it with me. At home cleaned the stone and rubbed it with Vaseline – and then twelve small circles, evenly distributed over the semi-circle, appeared very clearly. With great fascination, the colonel interpreted these as signs of the zodiac. He asked me if I might give him the stone as a gift, which I naturally did, even though I was later sorry not to have it anymore. (Flowers 2001, 148.)

Perhaps the sun design on the floor was made to imitate the old migration period Germanic art. Please see here and here (second image). I recall seeing similar motifs also on the Baltic and Estonian jewelry of about the same time period. I have no clue what the 1997 questioners reference to Middle Ages skalds refers into. I have read a plenty of Nordic material and do not recall reading of such a thing like even once. Any ideas, anyone?

Edited May 12, 2016 by FromFinland

[Tony S.]

I've ordered the Flowers (Edred Thorsson) book on Wiligut so perhaps I'll be able to say more when I've read it. But for now, I can't help noticing that those two terms, Sadaer and Santur, are highly reminiscent of Sætere and Saturn, respectively. Sætere was the supposed Germanic deity proposed by 19th century scholars to account for the name of Saturday, not willing to believe that it was simply named after the Roman god. In other words, all these words mean the same thing - Saturn. Saturn is black in its traditional colour attribution, and in astrological terms has a somewhat negative reputation. It is a large gas giant (almost like a miniature "sun" that was never lit) and in ancient times was the furthest known planet. If the "Black Sun" ever referred to anything real, could it simply be Saturn?

But in terms of Wewelsburg and the OLB, I think we need to look at the actual functions of the rooms in the north tower (only two rooms were ever completed). We know that the room with the mosaic was intended as a meeting hall for senior SS leaders. In other words, it's primary function was military and secular, and the mosaic should be seen in light of this (and we must resist the temptation to assume that every brick and lick of paint meant something profound and mystical). Historians, up to now, have had no idea what the vault, or crypt, below it was intended for, but I think it's clear that if the castle redesign had ever been completed, the vault would have been staffed with a burchfam and famna, complete with foddik. It's role, being religious in nature, would have been the exact opposite of the room above, or a complement to it, if one prefers. The castle, therefore, would have had the dual function of a religious centre and a military headquarters, exactly like a burch. To this, we can also add an educational purpose, with the proposed school, and a whole host of other activities.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Tony S.

[FromFinland]

Good catch on the Saturn, Tony - I didn't recognise it myself. (I need to recalibrate my celestial recognition skills for possible next encounter with skaldic poetry.)

[Ell]

I have no clue what the 1997 questioners reference to Middle Ages skalds refers into. I have read a plenty of Nordic material and do not recall reading of such a thing like even once. Any ideas, anyone?

An eclipse?

[Tony S.]

I've been reading through the book on Wiligut (The Secret King, Flowers & Moynihan), which arrived a few days ago, and have just come across the following passage from an article Wiligut wrote for Hagal magazine in 1935 (Flowers translation):

There is a DIFFERENCE between the twelve zodiacal [Tyr-Kreis] signs and the twelve constellations of the ecliptic.

The twelve zodiacal signs are INVISIBLE! They are measurements of an arc.

They are arrived at when the zodiac - assuming the beginning of spring as the point of division of the year - is divided into twelve zones of equal size, which results in zones of 30 degrees each!

The "face" of every "clock" even bears witness to the zodiac . . . of course, the number "12" comes exactly in the middle and so "Aries" begins at exactly 15 degrees between the numbers 12 and 1, i.e., it is located at the first zone. For now, we will not get into the reason for this.

So here we have the explanation for the 15 degree offset in the layout of Wewelsburg, and in the so-called "Black Sun" mosaic too. It is to do with the precession of the equinoxes and astrological ages, and the well-known fact that the zodiacal constellations no longer correspond to their respective signs, having gradually moved away from them. At one point later in the article Wiligut even mentions the coming of the age of Aquarius. I'll post more when I find it.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Tony S.

[Van Gorp]

I wonder also what significance of the 15 degree offset could mean in the 'black sun' symbol.

It is striking that it corresponds 1 hour(if you look at the symbol as an 24hours clock) or 1/2 hour (on a 12hour clock scale). Why are our clocks anyway 12h?.

Could it be 1/2 month? I have the feeling time is related in some form ... nevertheless...

As I read the quote you gave, I wonder where the precession comes into play with 15 degrees.

Doesn't he just mentions the fact that from 15 degrees of a sign's highest place in zodiac, the next sign start to replace the previous?

Which is pure mathematical logic if you want 12 signs in a 360° zodiac, each reigning 30 degrees?

Lasting still 15 degrees further, untill that next sign is at his peak?

[Tony S.]

As I read the quote you gave, I wonder where the precession comes into play with 15 degrees.

Doesn't he just mentions the fact that from 15 degrees of a sign's highest place in zodiac, the next sign start to replace the previous?

Which is pure mathematical logic if you want 12 signs in a 360° zodiac, each reigning 30 degrees?

Lasting still 15 degrees further, untill that next sign is at his peak?

Later in the article Wiligut states that each astrological age lasts 2,160 years and that we are currently between the start of the age of Pisces, and that of Aquarius. He then lists the ages in order: Taurus, Aries, Pisces etc. He also equates the 12 signs of the zodiac with runes, stating that these are derived from "Atlantean" times. In other words, if we are currently about half way between the beginning of the age of Picses and that of Aquarius, we are 15 degrees into the age of Pisces. I also note, though he doesn't actually say this, that the destruction of Atland in 2194 BC occurred about half way through the age of Taurus, requiring 15 degrees before the start of the age of Aries.

You are right, of course, to say that this is all pure mathematical logic, and I think this was probably the basis of the intended symbolism. But going further than this, the theme is of lost ancient wisdom that can be restored if we have they key, which in Wiligut's opinion is to be found in the runes.

[Van Gorp]

Thanks for this extra information Tony.

[Ott]

On 1.5.2016 at 5:30 PM, Ott said:

A new source for all you OLB students: the original manuscript with line numbering (downloadable PDF).

https://issuu.com/oe.../docs/olb_1_ott

Here is the new provisional transliteration. An introduction is given on the first 5 pages. When all is done and improved, a high quality printed version will be made available. Next part will be the new English translation!

http://issuu.com/oeralinda/docs/olb_2_ott?e=24682331/36153363

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Ott