Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

[Ott]

I forgot to mention that Texel is pronounced Tessel in North-Holland.

[FFv3]

13 hours ago, Tony S. said:

Each traditional county, or shire, in England has a county top, though there are often other beacons in the same shire as well. I suspect that these beacons, and the network they form across the land, are the original boroughs described in the OLB, spreading light to their districts and guiding the way. It is even possible that the word beacon itself, from Old English bēacn (sign, portent - related to beckon) shares a common root with burch, or borough.

I'm always delighted to read your thoughts on the British isles. Context wise, it may interest you that my country had in the Viking age a beacon fire system that went deep inland from the coastline. Usually from hill fort to hill fort, to alarm common folk to enemy ships sighted at the coastline and to call inland towns for military reinforcements. Use of that exact system is apparent in Battle of Herdaler (link), which took place in the western Uusimaa region on a coastline called Bálagarðssíðu 'balefire-place-coastside'. Geographically it's exactly the same land area as Odenmaa 'Odin-land' the holy Æsir land in Bock saga tradition from the same geographical area.

What you wrote on the circular street layout reminds me a bit of an another aspect of Bock saga. In it the cultural information centre is the Odenmaa mentioned above, of which goes out roads, sea routes and a constant traffic of various messengers. These messengers head into various inland valleys and towns to see the common non-Æsir people. There they deliver the latest news and judgements on all kinds of things orally and the place for that job is called rasti 'an even cross', as in a Celtic cross. Central market places and empty plazas make fine places for that kind of public hearings, implying indirectly that these rasti locales might have had similar street layout. I'll be sure to keep my eyes open for indications of any such archeological remnants.

 

Quote

Why have we never noticed this before: Thessaloniki AND Stavre on Chalkidiki. ... Near the coast they found an island with two deep bays so it looked like three islands. ... Some wanted to call it Fryasburg, others Nef-Tunia; but the Magyars and the Finns pleaded it should be called Tyr's Burg."

At the centremost of those "islands" lies an ancient town called Toroni. As in Thorri the king not explicitly named in Oera Linda tradition, yet silently lingering there in the background as can be noted by comparing the Scandinavia episode to correspoding Norse sagas of Hversu.../Fundinn traditions. (Also echoed in corrupt form in Danish Gesta Danorum's tale of Olmar and Thor the Long.)

But wait!

It gets even better.

According to Oera Linda and other narratives, the name Tyr was special to Finns. Please read:

Quote

Finns pleaded it should be called Tyr's Burg. Týr was the name of one of their gods and it was on his annual day that they had landed there. – Oera Linda book

Thorri was a noble king; he ruled over Gothland, Kvenland, and Finland. To him the Kvens sacrificed that it might be snowy, and that there might be good going on snow-shoon. That was their harvest. That sacrifice was to be at mid-winter; and the month Thorri [tammikuu 'oak-moon/January'] was called after it. – Hversu Noregr Byggðist

Now these Kven people are called today the people of Kainuu region and Kajaani town dwellers. Amongst other names their homeland has been misunderstood as 'woman land' or Terra Feminarum, from Swedish kven land -> kvinna land 'woman land'. Hence in Christian chronicles of Adam of Bremen the lewd tales from Woman Land and in later Norman-Arab Tabula Rogeriana the association of Magi to Baltic Amazon islands. Even Hindus and Buddhist know the place as a Nordic land of women. Already before all of them in 98 AD one Roman historian called Tacitus had in his Germania described this land of women and called it (ch. XLV) by tribal name Sitones. This implies that the Thorri worshipping Kven Finns were also known by Mediterranean peoples under name Sitones. From the two Norse saga accounts we can read that one of the two Finnish army groups took the northern Fennoscandinavian route through northern Finland and Lappland, thus making it very likely that these very same Kven-Sitones took part also in the larger Scandinavian operation. Meaning that some or all of the Oera Linda Finns are of the Kven-Sitone ethnicity.

So, back to Greece. Where do we find this ancient town of Toroni mentioned above? In area called Sithonia!

Makes you think, eh? For sake of an argument, let's for the moment remove the Oera Linda book from the image. We have only the Mediterranean toponyms, Roman source Germania and the medieval Norse sagas. It still matches: Toroni-Sithonia versus Thorri-Kven-Sitones. This can't be deducted into the Mediterranean toponyms merely colouring the history books, for it doesn't explain the Kven aspect. We Finns really did have once gods of war called Turisas/Turilas, Iku-Tiera, Tuuri and Old Man of Tyrjä. Even the associated saga lore memory of once Finnish Gotland seems to be a real memory ("Thorri was a noble king; he ruled over Gothland, Kvenland, and Finland").

What about the etymology? In native language we have a rather manly siitoin 'breeding one', surviving in term siitoin-ori 'breeding horse' and as a family name. The surname was writen Sitoine in the early 18th century and it's assumed that there existed a town with the name Siitola already in middle ages (source). Rather curiously a folklore from the same source puts that one folk ancestor known for fishing and called Siitoin sent two of his adult sons to the outer world, hence the toponyms and locales bearing his name. It just happens that chief Finnish sage and god Väinämöinen (Ægir/Hler) is a notorious fisherman in SKVR poetry (painting), called a siittäjä 'breeder' and has two outward going heroes Tor and Tyr as his champions in Bock saga and is related in various Norse tales to two Finnish warhosts heading into the west. Many 18th century folklores collected in my country retained genuine medieval heathen lore but in degenerated form. For example, the pagan memory of human chieftain Untamo survived in some towns as a high fantasy folktale of two silly giants Un and Tam. This makes me just wonder how old that folklore story of fisher Siitoin and his two outward bound sons really is...

As for the Mediterranean etymology, a source on Phoenician religion mentions this:

Quote

According to Philo of Byblos, the Phoenician author Sanchuniathon explained Dagon as a word for "grain" (siton). Sanchuniathon further explains: "And Dagon, after he discovered grain and the plough, was called Zeus Arotrios." The word arotrios means "ploughman" or "pertaining to agriculture" (from ἄροτρον, 'plow'). – Wikipedia on Dagon (see visual chart here)

Now lads. Do I need to tell you that the great grandfather of Kven king Thorri is no other than ploughman Kari-Ilmarinen, named explicitly as 'air' and 'king' cf. Zeus. In Finnish SKVR poetry he is called taivaan takoja 'a hammerer of the heavens', cf. Dagon and lightning aspect of Zeus and Thor. Taivaan/taivas is the same root word as teo/deus 'god' and Zeus. Thus the title taivaan takoja equals 'Zeus Dagon'. As per Wikipedia in the nearby island of Athos in "the fifth century there was still a temple and a statue of "Zeus Athonite", suggesting a link between Sanchuniatohn's Siton-Zeus and Sithonia-Athos. That northern island also has one Karyes, called already in 800s AD an "ancient seat of the council", possibly echoing the name Kari of this international god figure. Indeed, we could research the Mediterranean Sithonian toponyms for more clues. We find toponym Sarti - saari ('island') or alternatively Saari ('Finland') and another toponym Valti - valtias ('ruler'), echoing the above.

Note also that the same Sithonian locale has also curious toponym Vourvourou. Is that not Greek varvara/Βαρβάρα? From Wikipedia: "In the 10th century, the area was known as the "land of the Vourvourioi" or 'a land of foreigners'.

Edited April 16, 2019 by FFv3

[Tony S.]

11 hours ago, FFv3 said:

I'm always delighted to read your thoughts on the British isles. Context wise, it may interest you that my country had in the Viking age a beacon fire system that went deep inland from the coastline. Usually from hill fort to hill fort, to alarm common folk to enemy ships sighted at the coastline and to call inland towns for military reinforcements. Use of that exact system is apparent in Battle of Herdaler (link), which took place in the western Uusimaa region on a coastline called Bálagarðssíðu 'balefire-place-coastside'. Geographically it's exactly the same land area as Odenmaa 'Odin-land' the holy Æsir land in Bock saga tradition from the same geographical area.

What you wrote on the circular street layout reminds me a bit of an another aspect of Bock saga. In it the cultural information centre is the Odenmaa mentioned above, of which goes out roads, sea routes and a constant traffic of various messengers. These messengers head into various inland valleys and towns to see the common non-Æsir people. There they deliver the latest news and judgements on all kinds of things orally and the place for that job is called rasti 'an even cross', as in a Celtic cross. Central market places and empty plazas make fine places for that kind of public hearings, implying indirectly that these rasti locales might have had similar street layout. I'll be sure to keep my eyes open for indications of any such archeological remnants.

When Alfred Watkins published his classic book The Old Straight Track in 1925, and introduced the concept of ley lines to the general public, he envisaged them primarily as a means for ancient people to travel from one part of the country to another, without getting lost, in those days before roads and maps. In other words, they were lines of sight, marked with promininent features in the landscape, of which beacons were the most important. Other features included standing stones, earthworks and stone circles, built by men to flesh out the routes between natural prominences, but the beacons, which can easily be seen for 40 or 50 miles, even on days with poor weather - that is, from one shire to another - were the foundation of the system. But this, however, can only be the case if the beacons were kept lit at all times, day and night, for otherwise they would be useless, a fact that never seems to have occurred to Watkins (or rather if it did, he never mentioned it), nor indeed to any of his successors in the field of study now known as earth mysteries.

In more recent, historical times, beacons were used to warn of approaching armies, bent on plunder and invasion. The attacks of the Vikings are the archetypical example of this, but the system continued to be employed for centuries thereafter. Very famously, for example, during the attempted invasion of the Spanish Armada in 1588, when the whole country was mobilised within an hour. Even as late as Napoleonic times the system was still in use, but since then, the beacons have generally been lit to mark special royal occasions, such as the Queen's Golden Jubilee. But all these uses have one thing in common - not only are the beacons not kept alight at all times, but it is essential that they not be. In other words, we see a crucial change of use.

This was brought home to me on a field trip to Barr Beacon, Staffordshire, from which, on a good day, once can see seven different shires (the site of the beacon itself is now occupied by a First World War memorial built in the style of a Greek temple). Looking around at the fields and villages laid out before us, land that has been occupied and cultivated for at least six milliennia, one member of our group asked a rather obvious question - where had they got all the wood from, to keep the fire burning at all times? After all, in terms of trees, the place is actually fairly desolate, though it's a great deal better than it was in the early 1970s, judging by film evidence. Most of the trees in the square enclosure to the south of the beacon, as seen in the above photo (left of picture), are less than 50 years old. We know that before the arrival of farmers, Britain was densely forested from one end to the other, but only tiny pockets of this primeval woodland survive today. What happened to it all? There was nothing haphazard about Neolithic forest clearance, with people spreading randomly from one place to another, chopping down trees as they went, because archaeology tells a very different story. The entire system absolutely required that the forest be cleared and consumed. Society was stable, therefore, precisely for the reason that each community had to support a beacon, or burch, with it's perpetually burning fire. And with such stability comes political authority, exercised by the very people who ran the beacons.

 

[Pierre Jakob]

On 4/15/2019 at 9:34 PM, Van Gorp said:

(...)

To drag, dragen could then stem from trekken, what has in it's form (at least for me) a more natural explanation than dragen, namely: toe-rekken.

(...) 

Hello Van Gorp, good to see that you are still a-lif(e) !

Interesting etymology for trekken. There may be more words with prefixes (like to- and be- especially) that have fallen so as to look like they are a part of the word-core itself.

I recently found a new etymology for Dutch tornen, German trennen (both: to rend, to break, to tear [of cloth]). The OLB spelling makes it likely that this word is actually a composition between TO and RENNA (Engl. rend).

 

[139/02] TO RENNANDE HJARA KLÁTHAR TO FLARDUM ÀND TO SKÉRANDE HJARA HOLA KÀL.

[077/12] MEN ASER FALLEN WAS GVNGON SINA NÉIMANNINGA ALRING AN VSA ÉWA TORENA == Ottema (pg. 107): Maar toen hij gestorven was, gingen zijne opvolgers al spoedig aan onze wetten tornen

[89/11] THRVCH ALTHUS DÉNNERA RENKA BROCHTON HJA TWÍSPALT IN OVIRA STÁTHA ÀND TORENDON HJA THAT BAND SÁDÉNE FON ÉN == Ottema (pg.125): Door dusdanige ranken brachten zij tweespalt over de staten, en tornden zij den band zoodanig van een,

 

This is not seen by mainstream etymologists:

Quote

 

J. Vercoullie (1925), Beknopt etymologisch woordenboek der Nederlandsche taal, Den Haag / Gent

tornen, tarnen o.w., Mnl. tornen, tarnen en ternen + Hgd. trennen: oorspr. onbek., misschien een uitbreiding van den wortel van teren.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Pierre Jakob

[FFv3]

5 hours ago, Pierre Jakob said:

I recently found a new etymology for Dutch tornen, German trennen (both: to rend, to break, to tear [of cloth]).

Finnish tora 'quarrel', verb torailla 'to quarrel/wrangle', adjective toraisa 'angry/hateful'.

If it means 'to tear of cloth', isn't it a sound emulation of the actual tearing: traa-traa? Like word crow emulates the craa-craa sound of the bird and word rake emulates the hraa-hraa sound of the dry leaves being swept away.

[Van Gorp]

23 hours ago, Pierre Jakob said:

...

There may be more words with prefixes (like to- and be- especially) that have fallen so as to look like they are a part of the word-core itself.

...

This is not seen by mainstream etymologists:

Spot on imo.

I even think it is not only limited to prefixes, but small sentences can, by the passing of time and dialect pronounciation, be compressed and ultimately forming a word.

OLB hints allready in that direction with examples as Druids, as for 'Trouw wijden'.

 

BW Hietbrink has a very remarkable example (or is it ingenuity?) for the word 'tomahawk', ax used by the Indians.

Probably only to be fully appreciated by people understanding the dialect as spoken by Limburgers, the region Hietbrink is from (maybe also others with kindlike dialect).

But the 'tomahawk' used on the other side of the sea, does exactly what we say we do with it:

"Doa mee houw ik" :-)

Literally translated:

"There with hew I"

So, the tool i use to hew.

 

For me it is not really about the exactness of this statement.

But the legacy of this type of wordforming could be much more real than what is now considered by 'specialists', when they take halt with their beloved specialised opinion: origin unknown. 

Imo very amusing:

"We have no clue, cause from the start we are on the wrong track.

But as we are the self professed specialists, all possible meaningfull explanations are mere guessing in the wild"

[Ott]

I ran into this one today:

Quote

tyrant (n.) c. 1300, "absolute ruler," especially one without legal right; "cruel, oppressive ruler," from Old French tiran, tyrant (12c.), from Latin tyrannus "lord, master, monarch, despot," especially "arbitrary ruler, cruel governor, autocrat" (source also of Spanish tirano, Italian tiranno), from Greek tyrannos "lord, master, sovereign, absolute ruler unlimited by law or constitution," a loan-word from a language of Asia Minor (probably Lydian); Klein compares Etruscan Turan "mistress, lady" (surname of Venus). [...]
Originally in Greek the word was not applied to old hereditary sovereignties (basileiai) and despotic kings, but it was used of usurpers, even when popular, moderate, and just (such as Cypselus of Corinth), however it soon became a word of reproach in the usual modern sense. (www.etymonline.com/search?q=tyrant)

www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/tiran

Quote

"ontleend aan Grieks túrannos ‘heer, meester, vorst, tiran’, van onbekende verdere herkomst."

(i.e. of unknown origin)

The long-lasting conflict there has been between the Fryas and the Tyranians, as suggested by OLB, could be a clue.

[Van Gorp]

Nice, too-ren tee-ren ty-ren ...

Tear tear teer teer toor toor sounds like TarTar (TReiTeReN=TaRTeRReN= a TORMENT tears one up)

Tering (digesting) is than related to the tearing of the food?

Tieren (shouting) the tyran could have done also :-)

 

[Pierre Jakob]

THÍR & BOK

 

Týr I actually planned on posting about today, so it is good that so much of him/ them have been found this week.

This deity, like Wodin, can be explained by the old Frya language of which many Teutonic words today still retain the meaning.

Van Gorp just mentioned Dutch verb ‘tieren’ which means (1) to rave, rage, go wild and also (2) to thrive, prosper, flourish. A third and today forgotten meaning is: (3) glowing, bright, glorious, magnificence. This 3^rd archaic meaning (plus the first two ofcourse) is in my opinion a much better explanation for the etymology of Týr than has been guessed up till now. (see Taaldacht vergeten woorden, ‘tier’)

That the OLB spelling of THÍR could then become Týr is certainly possible, since Y and Í sounds often umlaut eachother – this is even evident in the pictographical nature of the letter-symbols, while in one case (Y) the accent is to the back, indicated by a staff queer to the left, and in the other (Í) the accent is sharper, forwarded and indicated thus. Note both of these sounds (as well as J) stem from ‘I’ and can also be symbolised by it.

 

And for a more interesting one:

 

Quote

 

Puck is a mischievous pre-Christian nature spirit, a "woodwose" in the archetype of the Horned God. The pagan trickster was reimagined in Old English puca (cf. Old Norse puki "devil") as a kind of half-tamed woodland sprite, leading folk astray with echoes and lights in nighttime woodlands or coming into the farmstead and souring milk in the churn. Significantly for such a place-spirit or genius, the Old English word occurs mainly in placenames, which strongly suggests that the Puca was older in the landscape of Britain than the language itself. Since the O.E.D. debates whether the origin is Germanic (Old Norse puki) or Celtic (Welsh pwcca and Irish pooka), Puck's origins may lie on an even deeper language layer, before the Celtic and North Germanic language families split..

(...)

In Ireland "puck" is said to be sometimes used for "goat".

[Puck: Fact-index.com]

 

   ~ ~ ~

 

The etymology of puck is uncertain.^[1] The modern English word is attested already in Old English as puca (with a diminutive form pucel). Similar words are attested later in Old Norse (púki, with related forms including Old Swedish puke, Icelandic púki, and Frisian puk) but also in the Celtic languages (Welsh pwca, Cornish bucca and Irishpúca).

(...)

The term pixie is in origin a diminutive of puck.

[Wiki]

 

 

Now any one with even Wikipedia level knowledge of the Finnish Joulupukki will immediately recognize the same root in Puck as in ‘pukki’ ==> Bock!

 

Illustration from the title page of Robin Goodfellow: His Mad Pranks and Merry Jests (1629)

[Van Gorp]

Possible etymoligical link Tyre - 'Terenburg' (Terwaan)

Terwaan -> TerenBurg

 

When one notices that Terwaan (Terenburg) and St-Omar (Sithieu of Sitdiu) are located in the same area close to sea, one can imagine the remarkable analogy with the couple Tyre-Sidon.

St Omar

[Pierre Jakob]

On the ‘Gools’

 

The word GOLA retains an interesting word in Afrikaans which essentially means ‘to deceive’. I am not sure if Dutch also has it, maybe as gogelen? I’m not home so I can not check my Van Dale dictionary and cannot find anything online.

See here for photos of the verb goël (Dutch reconstruction ought to be *gogelen) and noun derivatives. (A reminder that Afrikaans verbs can be read as Swedish ones but without the -a)

 

 

[Van Gorp]

42 minutes ago, Pierre Jakob said:

On the ‘Gools’

 

The word GOLA retains an interesting word in Afrikaans which essentially means ‘to deceive’. I am not sure if Dutch also has it, maybe as gogelen? I’m not home so I can not check my Van Dale dictionary and cannot find anything online.

See here for photos of the verb goël (Dutch reconstruction ought to be *gogelen) and noun derivatives. (A reminder that Afrikaans verbs can be read as Swedish ones but without the -a)

 

 

So we know now where google gets its name :-)

I think goochelen = ge-huichelen

Huichelen

FEIGN, PRETEND or make use of the illusion

 

 

[Pierre Jakob]

48 minutes ago, Van Gorp said:

So we know now where google gets its name :-)

I think goochelen = ge-huichelen

Huichelen

FEIGN, PRETEND or make use of the illusion

Of course! Thanks I forgot about that. I see goochelen is said to be derived from joke, jokken (used in OLB as JOK) – this is possible. (I am surprised huichelen is not also claimed to come from Latin jocus.)

But for goochelen to come from GOLA is not entirely unlikely, as the middle part (goochel-) could have developed in the various languages. The trickerish nature is also one that the Fryas assoiciated with the Gaullians (Gools), just as they did the Finns with fine-ness, themselves with free-dom etc.

 

GOLA: to deceive, trick; also Gallia (Old-Frisian)

• gøjle – Danish
• gjøgle – Norse
• gyckla – Swedish
• gaukeln – German
• goochelen – Dutch
• goël – Afrikaans

 

Compare KUL (07 Dec. 2013) which rings  koeël in Afrikaans with the others:

Quote

 

2)

kule - norwegian

kúla - icelandic

kula - swedish

kugle - danish

kugel - german

kogel - dutch

(bullet, ball - english)

 

 

Afrikaans words tend to soften in the middle where a ‘ch’ or ‘g’ sound usually is in Dutch and German. Most of these can probably be described as the degeneration of the language, but some seem to coincide with the way they were pronounced in the OLB writing, which would make them relics. For example:

• SÉJEN: seën in Afrikaans, segen in Dutch & German
• LÉJEN: leuen in Afr., lie in English,  leugen & lügen in Dutch & German
• RÉIN: reën in Afr., rain in English, regen in Dutch & German

 

Also a word that might share a root with KUL is Dutch verb kullen (: to trick or hoodwink)

[Ott]

In this context the following may be relevant. It was already pointed out by Ottema in 1878, when he was already utterly ignored by ruling-class-approved media and scholars:

Pomponius Mela (III.48): Galizena - translation F.E. Romer, 1998 - source

Quote

In the Britannic Sea, opposite the coast of the Ossismi, the isle of Sena [Sein] belongs to a Gallic divinity and is famous for its oracle, whose priestesses, sanctified by their perpetual virginity, are reportedly nine in number. They call the priestesses Gallizenae and think that because they have been endowed with unique powers, they stir up the seas and the winds by their magic charms, that they turn into whatever animals they want, that they cure what is incurable among other peoples, that they know and predict the future, but that it is not revealed except to sea-voyagers and then only to those traveling to consult them.

Latin in original: ... Gallici numinis oraculo insignis est  ... Gallizenas vocant ...

This strongly resonates with the following OLB fragment [p.61/ 63]:

Quote

Now we will write about the war of the burg maidens Kelta and Minerva and how we thereby lost all our southern lands and Britannia to the Gools.* (...) When Kelta saw that her scheme failed, she went from bad to worse. She secretly invited Magyars to come and teach sorcery, and when she thought she had learned enough from them, she threw herself into the arms of the Gools. All these misdeeds did not improve her position though. When she realized that the steersmen shunned her ever more, she tried to win them back through fear. At full moon, when the sea was stormy, she walked the wild waves, shouting at the steersmen that they would all perish if they did not worship her. She also blinded their eyes so that they mistook land for water and water for land, causing many a ship to be lost with crew and cargo.

* or Gauls/ Gaels/ Galli? (GOLA/ GOLUM/ GVLUM)

[Pierre Jakob]

Has anyone found out what Inka's name means from an Old-Frisian perspective? It must mean something, seeing as these people still used normal words from their language for name-giving.

The 3 Old-Frisian dictionaries I checked  mostly give the equivalent of 'dairy products'...

From Hettema 1832:

 

I wondered whether it could be related to 'ink' (used for writing), if so it is hard to link that with 'dairy products'.

[FFv3]

On 21.4.2019 at 12:00 PM, Pierre Jakob said:

Van Gorp just mentioned Dutch verb ‘tieren’ which means (1) to rave, rage, go wild and also (2) to thrive, prosper, flourish. A third and today forgotten meaning is: (3) glowing, bright, glorious, magnificence. This 3rd archaic meaning (plus the first two ofcourse) is in my opinion a much better explanation for the etymology of Týr than has been guessed up till now. (see Taaldacht vergeten woorden, ‘tier’)

That the OLB spelling of THÍR could then become Týr is certainly possible, since Y and Í sounds often umlaut eachother – this is even evident in the pictographical nature of the letter-symbols, while in one case (Y) the accent is to the back, indicated by a staff queer to the left, and in the other (Í) the accent is sharper, forwarded and indicated thus. Note both of these sounds (as well as J) stem from ‘I’ and can also be symbolised by it.

Dutch language may have retained to key here. THÍR is Norse Þorri son of Snæs is Finnish Iku-Tiera son of Niera (note OLB uses the correct native spelling, instead of the Norse one).

Children of this THÍR/Þorri/Iku-Tiera are boys Nórr (norja 'fit'), Górr (koria 'handsome') and a girl Gói (kointähti 'beginning-star/Venus'). The meaning of their father's name had always eluded me, as it doens't mean anything in Finnish. Closest match was tiernapoika from Swedish stjärna 'star'. Mr. Bock had also spoken of similar topics, noting that stjärnor 'stars'  and "nor" would have been an Æsir title (of hence Nórr?). This third understanding above definitely fits the larger pattern with all the names and titles referring celestial and astronomical phenomena (for example Odin/Oden as 'sun'). Hence also in Norse saga tradition him as a noteworthily major king.

Quote

Has anyone found out what Inka's name means from an Old-Frisian perspective? It must mean something, seeing as these people still used normal words from their language for name-giving. ... The 3 Old-Frisian dictionaries I checked  mostly give the equivalent of 'dairy products'...

Not exactly, but how about Yngvi-Frey now that we have establisted OLB as part of both Sumerian (Inkishush) and Norse genres: "The name is in origin a hypocorism of names beginning in the element Ing- (such as Ingar, Inger, Ingrid, Ingeborg, Ingram, Ingvild, Ingunn etc.). These Germanic names made reference to either the god Ing or to the tribe of the Ingvaeones (who were presumably in turn named for the god)." (source)

In the 'Odin-land' of Uudenmaa we have one medieval town Inkoo, thought either to refer into rivers or into male name Inge as in above (source).

[Van Gorp]

13 hours ago, Pierre Jakob said:

Has anyone found out what Inka's name means from an Old-Frisian perspective? It must mean something, seeing as these people still used normal words from their language for name-giving.

 

Personal opinion.

Inka makes me think of Henk.

When looking more into detail about 'HENDRIK', most conclude it means something like king, 'ruler' of the place or in general stemming from good family.

 

INCA:

it was used widely among the Incas for "man of royal blood"

 

 

 

[Van Gorp]

Maybe of some relevance: patronyme HINQUE

[Pierre Jakob]

8 hours ago, Van Gorp said:

Personal opinion.

Inka makes me think of Henk.

When looking more into detail about 'HENDRIK', most conclude it means something like king, 'ruler' of the place or in general stemming from good family.

 

INCA:

it was used widely among the Incas for "man of royal blood"

Wiarda (1786) says Inka is related to 'Anke' which apparantly still means 'butter' in Switzerland. Anke is also a popular girls name still today

 

The English meaning of 'lord, ruler' > Spanish > South-American aboriginy would have developed subsequent to the colonisation. I am more interested in what 'Inka' meant to the Fryas when they named their children that ca. 4000 years ago. 'Dairy products' as a given name is probably not that strange I guess, when one remembers that even types of fruit were and are popular given names (ex. Pierre = pear, Braam = broom or bramble berry etc.)

 

[Pierre Jakob]

A word I can scarcely believe has not been guessed before:

 

WR.BÉRA (Ouroboros, Uroborus) = WR (ur-) + BÉRA, BÁRA (to bear, give birth, occur, reveal, disclose) + Greco-Roman suffix -os

• Dutch/ German cognate Urbar, oorbaar: in reference to land – being fruitful, useful, beneficial
• Literal meaning of some primordial happening, disclosure, revelation, origin
• Can easily be regarded as a primordial symbol of Wralda along with:
  • T.ANFANG: the Potential
  • T.BIJIN: the Beginning
  • ÉWA: aeon, eternity, equality, law, justice, marriage

 

EDIT:

Ur-bear can also refer to the star constallation (here on Fryskednis | here from Mr. Bernhard Schaub (42:00 - 47:00)

Edited April 23, 2019 by Pierre Jakob

[Pierre Jakob]

1 hour ago, Pierre Jakob said:

...

EDIT:

Ur-bear can also refer to the star constallation (here on Fryskednis | here from Mr. Bernhard Schaub (42:00 - 47:00)

Ourobor-os could also refer to Other-bear ==> ÔRA.BÉRA

[Van Gorp]

9 hours ago, Pierre Jakob said:

The English meaning of 'lord, ruler' > Spanish > South-American aboriginy would have developed subsequent to the colonisation. I am more interested in what 'Inka' meant to the Fryas when they named their children that ca. 4000 years ago.

 

" The term Inka means "ruler" or "lord" in Quechua and was used to refer to the ruling class or the ruling family.^[13] The Incas were a very small percentage of the total population of the empire, probably numbering only 15,000 to 40,000, but ruling a population of around 10 million people.^[14] The Spanish adopted the term (transliterated as Inca in Spanish) as an ethnic term referring to all subjects of the empire rather than simply the ruling class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_Empire

 

Maybe I misinterpreted that part of your post ...

A sortlike 'Henk' as abbrevation for Hendrik doesn't seem for you plausible to be used as a child name 4000 years ago?

Personally, I don't see much difficulty in that.

 

Maybe another interesting one:

what do you think 'Tünis' meant back then, and could it be (etymologically) related with all the Teunis, Theunis, Theunissen from these days?

 

For me in the same mindset the duo could nowadays also be called  : Henk & Teunis :-)

[Van Gorp]

On 22-4-2019 at 10:02 AM, Pierre Jakob said:

Has anyone found out what Inka's name means from an Old-Frisian perspective? It must mean something, seeing as these people still used normal words from their language for name-giving.

The 3 Old-Frisian dictionaries I checked  mostly give the equivalent of 'dairy products'...

From Hettema 1832:

 

I wondered whether it could be related to 'ink' (used for writing), if so it is hard to link that with 'dairy products'.

 

Very interesting, that INKA DAIRY link. Wonder also what the origin would be ...

For ink (inke, inkt, inker, encre) could be

'In-ga', like the ink goes into the paper and linnen?

Or 'hang', like it hangs on other surfaces?

Or 'in-keer', like it turns into the surface?

 

What is used with dairy proces is the 'karnton' (keeren ton) , in an earlier version handled with the 'zwengel' -> zwaai-hengel

Maybe the word Inka is to be found from the proces. Then who knows hink, henk could be used to handle the machine making the butter.

 

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnen mind the name of the dairy company

 

A kind of second meaning for 'Hinken': with hobble as we know it still?

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Van Gorp
dairy company called Freia, another company is called Inza

[Van Gorp]

Sideway: more on the proces of making Inka dairy products:

important aspect is the sINKing (zINKen) of the substances to make milk/butter.

[FFv3]

In post #1708 I touched upon how Oera Linda book claims that the Eurasian Stealing of Sampo narrative took place in Frisian coast. And how we Finns understand there to be little support for that understanding from SKVR poetry tradition.

Until today, that is.

In 1821 one Jyrki Kettuńe (surname is spelled Kettunen in modern usage), from Karelian town of Vuokkiniemi, sung a poem song to nationally famous folklore collector Zacharias Topelius on this very topic. For brevity I have left out the lines 1-50 that deal the usual stuff, like the verbal exchanges between the matron and male hero, and the lines 61 onwards that deal with the ensuing pursuit, sea battle, defeat of the matron and loss of treasure into seas.

SKVR I1 63 a (source). Lines 51-60

Finnish original                              English translation

Siit on vanha Väinämöinen           Then the old Väinämöinen
Sormin soitti kanteletta,                 By fingers played the kantele instrument
Kielin kantelen pakasi.                   Made sounds with kantele strings.
Nukuttihin pohjon kansa.               Made people of North asleep.
55 Siitä vanha Väinämöinen          55 Then the old Väinämöinen
Saapi sitte sammon tuolta             gets then the Sampo treasure from there
Pohjolan kivi mäestä,                     from stone hill of North,
Yhäksän lukun takoa.                    from behind nine locks.
Siitä vanha Väinämöinen              Then old Väinämöinen
60 Laski pitkin Pohjon merta.        60 Sailed by North sea. 

Sailed by North sea ... or sailed by North Sea?

Locally we call it Pohjanmeri (map). "Pohjo" is an archaic variant spelling of Pohja ('north', 'at bottom level') and it was up to the folklore collector whether he records the orally sung words as one compound word or not. For example, in modern times we Finns would write the line 57 "kivi mäestä" 'of stone hill' as a single compound word "kivimäestä", implying that "Pohjon merta" could be as well be understood as "Pohjanmerta" or 'by North Sea'.

I have no clue how old the word Pohjanmeri is in Finnish usage. It's very close to Swedish Nordsjö 'North sea' and possibly loan or relative of it. Knowing that Finland was part of Swedish kingdom from c. 1250 to 1809, we need to ask how old is the Swedish corresponding term? Wikipedia tells us:

"Name Nordsjö has it's roots in a variant of German language spoken in medieval times by the peoples who at that time lived at the North Sea's southeastern shoreline, for example for example Frisians. ... In connection with maps from the Hanseatic League, the name spread throughout Europe." (source)

"It is suspected that the North Sea got its name from the Frisians who inhabited the Dutch coast at the time. For these coastal residents, the North Sea formed a counterpart to the Zuiderzee - southern, at least seen from Friesland and the parts of the North Sea coast located nearby. [2] For the inhabitants of the Netherlands in a general sense, the North Sea is also situated mainly to the north. The word Northeff has been used in Frisian since at least the middle of the 13th century, in Middle Dutch in the forms Nortzee or Noertzee since the end of the 13th century. In Old English we have known the name Norðsæ since the third quarter of the 10th century, later in the Middle Ages also as North-se, but this word subsequently fell into disuse. ... Already in the late Middle High German, the designation Nordermer, Nortmer or Nordersê came up." (source)

So it was a medieval name - Oera Linda book tradition text claims to be from the mid-1200s, or about the same time as Finland became wholly Christian. Over time the memory of Frisian North Sea could have been blurred and become mixed with another similar name, the Gulf of Bothnia or Pohjanlahti of the Baltic Sea (map).

Edited April 24, 2019 by FFv3