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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

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The Puzzler

Americanaryan, the links are interesting but I was under the impression the C282Y was spread by Vikings..

http://www.hemochromatosisdna.com/about-the-disease/viking-ancestry#.WiNfC4jXerU

 

 

Edited by The Puzzler
Took out some blah blah
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The Puzzler

I do however think all this worldwide priestly class does stem from one very ancient source. The  Bible goes straight into the building of the most ancient towns, Erech etc, some sort of pre-history is already with these people at that point, kept as Josephus says by a very ancient priesthood but many of these people fell into ways that were seen as evil, not part of who the Jews became, like Druids or Babylonian priests/priestesses. The core is the same though imo, maybe stemming back even tens of thousands of years, before Gobekli Tepe by eons. 

Aristotle says the Jewish priesthood came from India. 

The Magi that announced Jesus birth seem to have caused the Jews a lot of trouble, offshoots from Persia looking for power.

Its one of the main reasons I like the OLB, I can see the manipulations of the Magi as quite real.

Edited by The Puzzler
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The Puzzler

What we can't escape however between Jews and Celts is red hair.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair

The Ligurians, strangely enough with Scotland being described as Liguria in Himilcos periplus, the Ligurians near Italy are described as thus: 

 

Lucan in his Pharsalia (c. 61 AD) described Ligurian tribes as being long-haired, and their hair a shade of auburn (a reddish-brown):

...Ligurian tribes, now shorn, in ancient days

First of the long-haired nations, on whose necks
Once flowed the auburn locks in pride supreme

According to Plutarch, the Ligurians called themselves Ambrones, which could indicate a relationship with the Ambrones of northern Europe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligures

Columbus was Ligurian.

 

 

 

 

Edited by The Puzzler
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The Puzzler

Ironically, earlier on, Celts were generally not described as having red hair but yellow, the red heads were Germanic and old Thracian.

The Beaumont theory on pre-Celtic Britons being a Germanic Belgae type, as per van gorps comment re Britain being a penal colony in the OLB. Australia was a penal colony, in short time, colonists usually inhabit penal colonies, for admin. If nothing else.

 

 

Edited by The Puzzler

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Van Gorp
19 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Did we ever agree on what the etymology of KALTA was?

On the other side of the Scheldt, at Flyburgt, Sijrhed presided. This maiden was full of tricks. Her face was beautiful, and her tongue was nimble; but the advice that she gave was always conveyed in mysterious terms. Therefore the mariners called her Kalta, and the landsmen thought it was a title.

Etymology for KILT came up as KJALTA - to tuck up, to swaddle - to WRAP (up her words in mysterious terms). O.N

Then that sounds like a connection to her name being relative to KELTS, maybe their real etymology too.

Maybe I already said it or someone else did, too long, too bad a memory but I get stuck on small things... which I'm trying to clarify.

I think from the verb 'Kallen' (to talk, see call https://www.etymonline.com/word/call):

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M029681

See another passage in OLB:

  "No true Frisian shall speak ill of the faults of his neighbours Nên æfta Fryas skil ovira misslêga sinra nêste malja nach kalta"

 

Interesting though the Kilt, the Celts as those wearing the Kilt? May be. I think of Kleed and Kilt as the same (om-hulsel wrapped around the body), and the wrapped-up words can be from the same: ge-huld in mysterie and formulas (flauwe kul?). Here i think the other connection with Kelt and Cold comes from the same: when it's cold (koud), people walk ge-huld (wrapped up). Another word for kallen is kouten -> hullen & houden. When we see this we can think of cold and hold stemming from the same: wrapped up or fixed (i just think of hout, wood as being the primary source for keeping things on their place). Geld as money normally keeps it value also (geld=gold=goud=ge-houd).

Because that is my opinion: the hard K can be replaced with soft G.  The Kelts are the Gauls (later also the Wallons(GU=W).

But i think question remains open whether the Celts are called like this for the colder climate, the kiltlike robes clothes or as followers of a 'kallende' mother.

Edited by Van Gorp
changed robes into clothes: more appropriate noun for the topic: cloth and cold :-)
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The Puzzler

Van Gorp, thanks for the food for thought.

Edited by The Puzzler

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The Puzzler

It's just about defining the name that the OLB translates the Celts to but I agree it works well as kalta = speak, chatter (to call, shout) https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gala

Moving on...

Edited by The Puzzler
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Ott
On 12/3/2017 at 2:40 AM, The Puzzler said:

Did we ever agree on what the etymology of KALTA was?

One more note on "kàlta":

A modern cognate is Swedish: kälta - to nag, whine.

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Van Gorp

In addition to another intriguing word used in OLB and discussed more in detail by Ott: "Od" :-)

 

Od trâd to-ra binna: ænd nw bârdon ek twilif svna ænd twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle mænneska kêmen.

Translated by Sandabach:

Hatred found its way among them. They each bore twelve sons and twelve daughters—at every Juul-time a couple. Thence come all mankind.

I remember Ott mentionning the possible wrong translation, maybe even the opposite.

 

Hadewijch (a 13th century, sic!!, mystica) used the word 'orewoet'.  'De Minne' or the divine (transcendental) love.

Here the original description in Dutch: http://hadewijch.net/orewoet/

Here the English google translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhadewijch.net%2Forewoet%2F

 

" The Hadewijch expert of Jozef van Mierlo has carefully examined how Hadewijch uses this key word. According to him, 'orewoet' has everything to do with a firm, passionate love of love. "

...

" Other researchers and translators from Hadewijch have shown that 'orewoet' has to do with a 'strong and burning desire' (De Paepe, Mommaerts), 'impetuous urge' (Mommaerts) and a 'crazy and frightening desire' (Vekemans). It is striking that the English and French translations refer much more to 'anger' and 'madness' (madness, violence, fureur). "

-> indeed, we see this also with Sandbach

 

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The Puzzler

Another tricky one.

 

Edited by The Puzzler

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Skirnum
On 15.12.2017 at 10:14 PM, Van Gorp said:

In addition to another intriguing word used in OLB and discussed more in detail by Ott: "Od" :-)

 

Od trâd to-ra binna: ænd nw bârdon ek twilif svna ænd twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle mænneska kêmen.

Translated by Sandabach:

Hatred found its way among them. They each bore twelve sons and twelve daughters—at every Juul-time a couple. Thence come all mankind.

I remember Ott mentionning the possible wrong translation, maybe even the opposite.

Maby you have read something like this before...

Maria Kvilhaug translates Od or Odr as Spirit. I have read her big book about Old Norse mytology called the seed of Yggdrasil. Odin is then translateed as master of spirit, or someone who has followed the spirit to its origin or something like it. (maby my own words  :-) Maria mention it here.


Here is another one.Óðr (pronounced roughly “OH-thur,” with a hard “th” as in “the”) is an Old Norse word that has no direct equivalent in modern English. The word, and the wonderful concept to which it refers, is as little understood today as it was ubiquitous in pre-Christian Germanic mythology and religion.

Óðr is generally translated as something along the lines of “divine inspiration” or “inspired mental activity.”[1] While such translations will do where óðr is only mentioned in passing as part of a larger discussion, they gloss over the richness and dynamism of the word and its connotations, and are therefore inadequate for lengthier considerations of óðr such as the one in which we happen to find ourselves just now.

The word had cognates – words that mean the same thing and have the same linguistic origin – in the other Germanic languages, which attest to its universality throughout the ancient Germanic world. For example, in Old English it was wod, and in Old High German it was wuot. All of these originally stem from the Proto-Germanic *woþ-, which in turn stems from the Indo-European *uat-. Words from other branches of the Indo-European family of languages that were based on this root include the Latin vates, “soothsayer” or “poet,” and the Old Irish fáith, “seer” or “prophet.”[2]

Other Germanic words that originated in this same root – to cite but a few of the many – include Old English woþ, “sound, song, voice, poetry,” and woþbora, “poet, orator, prophet;” Old Saxon wodian, “to rage, to be raving mad or crazy;” and Old Norse øsa, “to make raving mad or crazy.”[3] Even the name of Odin himself is derived from this word (Old Norse Óðinn, “Master of Óðr“). Hence the famous remark by the eleventh-century German historian Adam of Bremen: “Wodan, id est furor” (“Odin, that is, furor”).[4]

Óðr is a force that causes people to create or perform any of the arts; to pronounce a prophecy; to enter an ecstatic trance, as in shamanism; to produce scholarly works; to enter into the battlefield frenzy that was the hallmark of Odin’s elite warriors, the berserkers and úlfheðnar; or to become possessed or go mad.

Óðr is a power that overwhelms and infuses one’s being to its core, which ousts one’s mundane consciousness and turns one into a frenzied, ecstatic vessel for some mysterious, divine agency that is palpably present in the act. This could certainly happen in the realms of life with which we associate the relatively neutered modern English world “inspiration,” such as the arts and acts of clairvoyance, but it could also happen in cases where we wouldn’t typically use “inspiration,” such as scholarly writing, the fury of the warrior in the heat of battle, or insanity (and here we must bear in mind that “’madness,’ to earlier peoples, did not mean loss of control; it meant control by Someone Else: inspiration or possession”).[5]

Of course, if we were to use the word “inspiration” in its original sense – “to be under the immediate influence of God or a god”[6] – then “inspiration” and óðr would effectively be synonymous. But since “inspiration” has gradually lost these connotations of divine agency and seen its range of meaning narrow over time, it’s important to point out this distinction.

And as if its range of associated acts or spheres of life wasn’t extensive enough, óðr was also the means by which knowledge of the higher or subtler sort was acquired. This should be implicitly evident in its being behind scholarly works, prophecies, and visionary trances, but I discuss some of the epistemological (theory of knowledge) implications of óðr directly and at some length in the article on the tale of The Mead of Poetry. Speaking of which…

 

Edited by Skirnum
..
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Ott

I like this post, but add a note to the following statement:

On 12/17/2017 at 7:38 PM, Skirnum said:

All of these originally stem from the Proto-Germanic *woþ-, which in turn stems from the Indo-European *uat-.

To wit: be aware that these 'proto-' words were provided by models, based on questionable assumptions.

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Skirnum
On 14.1.2018 at 11:42 AM, Ott said:

To wit: be aware that these 'proto-' words were provided by models, based on questionable assumptions.

 

Yes, and a good thing to keep in mind. I guess a translator must have many considerations in mind.


You probably know this, but I can mention it anyway. The word Od is used in Voluspa when Ask end Embla is created after the dwarfs.

18.
Önd þau né áttu,
óð þau né höfðu,
lá né læti
né litu góða;
önd gaf Óðinn,
óð gaf Hænir,
lá gaf Lóðurr
ok litu góða.

Here we can see that Odin gave “ond” ,soul, life or breath, Hænir, the chicken gave “od” spirit, mind, poetry, and Lodur gave vitality and colors. I will not comment this much except that the chicken gave Od. It is a bit funny I think, that a chicken or hen with its chattering gave human its gift. In my mind it is a good picture of the rational mind without the real inspiration (Od) from our origin. (Wralda)

The real meaning of the word “Od” might be lost to us, but so is Freyas husband in the Myths. She keeps searching and crying for him. His name is Od or Odr.

Just some thoughts from me…

Edited by Skirnum
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Ott

There is an interpretation of Hænir meaning rooster (German: Hahn, Dutch: haan) rather than chicken, but that is just one of many. German wiki has some interesting info: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hönir

Do you read German?

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Skirnum
On 21.1.2018 at 10:29 AM, Ott said:

There is an interpretation of Hænir meaning rooster (German: Hahn, Dutch: haan) rather than chicken, but that is just one of many. German wiki has some interesting info: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hönir

Do you read German?

No, I don’t read much German. Yes Hænir can of course be a rooster. A rooster witch song calls upon the sun rice, or it can call upon war or other events.

 

 But I like Maria Kvilhaugs explanation. She writes that Hænir offers thought. She says that the linguist have really struggled with this name, but that it actually means “chickens” (plural form). The only thing she can think of is that the name is a humorous way of referring to the chattering, clucking sounds of thought within our heads. And this is in her opinion what Hænir is offering – thought. In the Ynglinga saga it is said that Hænir is advised in all matter by the giant Mimir, Mimir means memory and memory always advises thought.  

 

Maria Kvilhaug divides Odr into three main meanings.

 

-          The first meaning is spirit, as Odin is the God of inspiration and otherworldly knowledge, and the giver of breath.

-          The second meaning is poetry, since Odin is the god of poetry.

-          The third meaning is ecstasy, or frenzy.

 

 The three meanings can again be divided and given different names. Like Odin, vili and ve. Or Odin, hænir and lodur. Heimdallr, Njord and Frøy. Odin, Thor and Loki. It all depends on the poets purpose, as I understand it.

 

Many ways to see it, I think…

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Ell
On 15-12-2017 at 10:14 PM, Van Gorp said:

Od trâd to-ra binna: ænd nw bârdon ek twilif svna ænd twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle mænneska kêmen.

Translated by Sandabach:

Hatred found its way among them. They each bore twelve sons and twelve daughters—at every Juul-time a couple. Thence come all mankind.

I do not know the context of that quote. Hence I do not know who 'they' are.

However, the number twelve in the context of Juul-time does suggest that it refers to twelve months. If so, apparently each month had a male and a female aspect.

 

Later: cogitating upon Od, it occurred to me that the name might refer to the sun.

Edited by Ell
Later thought.

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Ell
On 3-12-2017 at 9:49 PM, Van Gorp said:

I think from the verb 'Kallen' (to talk, see call https://www.etymonline.com/word/call):

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M029681

See another passage in OLB:

  "No true Frisian shall speak ill of the faults of his neighbours Nên æfta Fryas skil ovira misslêga sinra nêste malja nach kalta"

 

Interesting though the Kilt, the Celts as those wearing the Kilt? May be. I think of Kleed and Kilt as the same (om-hulsel wrapped around the body), and the wrapped-up words can be from the same: ge-huld in mysterie and formulas (flauwe kul?). Here i think the other connection with Kelt and Cold comes from the same: when it's cold (koud), people walk ge-huld (wrapped up). Another word for kallen is kouten -> hullen & houden. When we see this we can think of cold and hold stemming from the same: wrapped up or fixed (i just think of hout, wood as being the primary source for keeping things on their place). Geld as money normally keeps it value also (geld=gold=goud=ge-houd).

Because that is my opinion: the hard K can be replaced with soft G.  The Kelts are the Gauls (later also the Wallons(GU=W).

But i think question remains open whether the Celts are called like this for the colder climate, the kiltlike robes clothes or as followers of a 'kallende' mother.

raaskallen

I agree: Kalta may very well mean 'talker'.

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Tony S.

Flamborough Head (literally, "flame borough head") is a promontory on the east coast of Yorkshire, England. It is the closest area of land still above water to the Dogger Bank in the North Sea. Flamborough Head is separated from the rest of England by a Neolithic earthwork called Dane's Dyke (which, despite its name, predates the Vikings by thousands of years), and has been the location of a beacon, and more recently a lighthouse, for at least four millennia.

DoggerBank940x440.jpg

In ancient times the beacon, a perpetually burning flame, was situated on the south coast of the peninsula, at Beacon Hill above South Landing. In the 17th century a new lighthouse was built further inland to the north-east, and in the 19th century another one, at the eastern end of the promontory, which is still in use today. Note also the layout of the village of Flamborough, with its circular road pattern

f10.jpg

Beacon Hill, where archaeologists have found Neolithic remains, is now part of a farmer's field and has little external evidence of its former use. Just visible in the picture below, on the horizon, is the new lighthouse, gleaming white.

f01.jpg

Nearby is a Second World War bunker, or "pillbox" as they are called, one of many hundreds along the east and south coasts of England. These were built as watch posts to guard against German invasion. The line of trees in the distance, on the horizon, is where Dane's Dyke is located.

f04.jpg

The tunnel under the pillbox is blocked off, but leads directly under the cliff where the Neolithic beacon was situated. Note also the sad state of the structure, with graffiti and empty beer cans all over the place.

f03.jpg

During my most recent visit to Flamborough Head, last August, I spoke to a number of people in the village pubs, trying to find evidence of local folklore that might shed more light on the history of the place. Many people told me about the legend of the white lady, a ghost who walks the clifftop path from Beacon Hill to Dane's Dyke. Is it possible that she is a memory of the ancient priestesses who tended the flame thousands of years ago? The village is also host to a large fire festival around Yule time (in fact, New Year's Eve).

http://flamboroughfirefestival.org/

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Ell
On 15-2-2018 at 1:04 PM, Tony S. said:

Many people told me about the legend of the white lady, a ghost who walks the clifftop path from Beacon Hill to Dane's Dyke. Is it possible that she is a memory of the ancient priestesses who tended the flame thousands of years ago?

No.

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Tony S.
7 hours ago, Ell said:

No.

Stories of white ladies, or ladies in white, are very common at ancient and historic sites in England. For example, at the Rollright Stones, a Neolithic stone circle on the border of Oxfordshire and Warwickshire, where I've spent many days and nights as a volunteer warden, many people have sensed the presence of a white lady, guarding the place.

gettyimages-556449161.jpg?w=768&h=512&cr

In 2015, the remains of a Pagan priestess were discovered at the circle.

"An amateur metal detector enthusiast was stunned when he unearthed the remains of a 1,400 year-old Saxon skeleton. What's even more shocking is that the remains are thought to be those of a pagan witch."

"A large spindle whorl was also found suggesting the skeleton was a spiritual woman of high status from about 600 AD."

http://www.itv.com/news/central/2015-08-07/man-discovers-1-400-year-old-saxon-skeleton-believed-to-be-pagan-witch/

stream_img.jpg

It's true that this woman was not from the Neolithic. In fact, she was a Saxon, who, along with their fellow Frisian tribes the Angles and Jutes, invaded and settled in Britain after the fall of the Roman Empire. It's well-known archaeologically that the Pagan Anglo-Saxons re-occupied ancient sacred sites, and venerated them as dwelling places of the ancestors. This is always reflected in local folklore. At the Rollrights there are tales of a witch and her coven who turned an invading army to stone. Another story says that on certain special nights of the year, such as Yule and May Eve, the stones wake up and go down to the stream to drink. Given the date of the woman's remains, around AD 600, she would have been among the last of the Pagan priestesses who were free of Christian attemps to suppress them.

Edited by Tony S.
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Ott

Interesting posts, Tony.

I found out recently that Knul also died in 2014, so that in a short period of time, we lost three main contributors, as Alewyn and Apol also died (2014 and 2016 resp.).

Puzzler and Abramelin seem to not have been active for quite some time now. Perhaps they may come back again or we can revive this thread by attracting some new members.

Here is something new to think about:

 

Earlier it was suggested that the the Pelasgians were sea people.

Wikipedia:

Quote

 

"According to Herodotus the Aeolians were previously called Pelasgians."

"Originating in Thessaly, a part of which was called Aeolis, the Aeolians..."

 

The mythological Aeolis was son of Hellen and brother of Xuthus.

 

"Xuthus" is thought to mean light blond (or 'yellow' hair) and the name Hellen (HEL.LÉNJA) is used and explained in OLB.

Is it a coincidence that Thessaly resembles TEX (Dutch 'Texel' is pronounced Tessel) and Aeolians could be derived from JOL (yule or wheel)?

Two important if not sacred concepts in the OLB.

(I am making a list of Roman names that could be explained through OLB-Frisian, like Julia - JOL, August - HÁGEST: highest, Diana - THJANJA: to serve, Livia - LJAVJA: to love, Vesta FÀSTA, etc.)

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Tony S.
21 hours ago, Ott said:

Interesting posts, Tony.

I found out recently that Knul also died in 2014, so that in a short period of time, we lost three main contributors, as Alewyn and Apol also died (2014 and 2016 resp.).

Puzzler and Abramelin seem to not have been active for quite some time now. Perhaps they may come back again or we can revive this thread by attracting some new members.

Here is something new to think about:

 

Earlier it was suggested that the the Pelasgians were sea people.

Wikipedia:

The mythological Aeolis was son of Hellen and brother of Xuthus.

 

"Xuthus" is thought to mean light blond (or 'yellow' hair) and the name Hellen (HEL.LÉNJA) is used and explained in OLB.

Is it a coincidence that Thessaly resembles TEX (Dutch 'Texel' is pronounced Tessel) and Aeolians could be derived from JOL (yule or wheel)?

Two important if not sacred concepts in the OLB.

(I am making a list of Roman names that could be explained through OLB-Frisian, like Julia - JOL, August - HÁGEST: highest, Diana - THJANJA: to serve, Livia - LJAVJA: to love, Vesta FÀSTA, etc.)

Very sorry to hear about Knul. There will be none of us left at this rate.

Mention of Apol reminds me that there is another Greek name used in the OLB, both in the form of Apol itself, and as Apollonia (in various spellings). Kornêlja is the Roman name Cornelia. There is also an Enoch, which is Hebrew, of course, rather than Greek. Other names, such as Minno (for Minos), Minerva, Sêkrops (Cecrops), Ulysus (Ulysses), Kalip (Calypso) and and even Jes-us refer to specific individuals in Greek or Roman mythology, rather than being examples of different people with the same name.

What are your views on the identification of peoples? The OLB mentions the Kâd-hêmar, who have a connection with both the Phoenicians and the Celts (followers of Kalta). As has been pointed out before, in posts from years ago on this thread, the name Kâd-hêmar is reminiscent of the Tyrian (Phoenician) Cadmus. Originally, before the revolt of Kalta, the Kâd-hêmar were one of the ten Frisian tribes listed by the OLB. Can we identify all ten of these in Classical or later sources? Some are more obvious than others.

Juttar - Jutes
Lêtne - Letts
Stjurar - Sturii
Sêkæmpar - Sicambrians
Angelara - Angles
Kâd-hêmar - the people who later became followers of Kalta, i.e. Celts
Saxmanna - Saxons
Landsâton - ?
Mârsata - Marsacii
Holt- or Wodsâta - people of Holstein

According to glottochronology, the split between the Celtic and Germanic languages occurred during the second millennium BC, which fits the OLB chronology for the revolt of Kalta (interestingly, however, the split between Celtic and Italic, including Latin, is more recent). I'm not sure about the Letts in the above list, however, since the Letts, i.e. Latvians, are Baltic speakers. But we must also acknowledge that there were apparent Germanic speakers who were not counted among the Frisians, most notably the Twiskar. The name of the Landsâton seems so general that they could be located almost anywhere.

The suffix sâton or sâta in the above names also appears in the English shire names of Somerset and Dorset. It simply means settlers, and is related to seat, sit.

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Ott

Yes, these 'names' were rather descriptions, some of which later became a name of which the original meaning later seems to have been forgotten.

Like the current term Frisians is used differently from Roman Empire times, one must be careful not to get confused.

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