Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

1,400 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Tony S.

Interestingly, fam is Welsh for "mother" (plural famau).

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/welsh-word-for-5116e40694ac48f654cb7b6816177e0e717237c6.html

As a Celtic language, the ancestor of Welsh will have diverged from Frisian (Germanic) after the revolt of Syrhêd Kælta, commencing in 1631 BC. Modern Welsh, however, is also heavily influenced by Latin, especially in its vocabulary, though the Latin (Italic) and Celtic language families are in any case more closely related to each other than either is to Germanic, suggesting a more recent common origin, or at any rate long geographical or cultural propinquity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ott

updated 5-language versions of 1-hour OLB intro-video

videosnew.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

WAG ÀND WÁK

 

I almost thought I discovered a new word with WAGRUM/ WAGARUM but saw that it was already discussed. So I will simply reinforce what was said with two words from my [Afrikaans] Beknopte Verklarende Woordeboek, Kritzinger & Eksteen, 8th edition 1989:

 

1. waag, ge-, jou aan onsekerheid blootstel; iets gevaarliks onderneem; op die spel sit (...)

2. wag, -te, (noun) iem. wat wag staan, brandwag, sterrewag; (...) ge-, (verb) versuim, verwag (...)

 

1. == hazard, risk, venture, dare, chance, stake, gamble (link)

2. == (noun) watch, gaurd , sentry (link); (verb) to wait, to stay, to pause (link)

 

Possibly WÁG(-UM) refered to outside walls, where one waagd (that is risked) more to go. WÁGRUM could well refer to a gaurdroom or watchroom.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ott
Posted (edited)
On 9-4-2018 at 4:36 PM, Tony S. said:

Since Münster has been in the news, for all the wrong reasons, perhaps it's an appropriate time to ask why Ottema, in his notes, identified it so clearly as the Manna-gârda-forda (and variants) in the OLB. The names are not similar, and indeed "Münster" must be derived from the same source as the English minster, found in so many place-names, from the Latin for monastery. Do we have any other evidence that Münster was Manna-gârda-forda?

Apparently, Münster has been known as Mimigernaford, Mimigardaforda, Monegerdeforda, Minigerdeforde, Irmegardafoerda (and probably more varieties) in old sources. Ottema's source may have been J. Dirks (1846) "Geschiedkundig onderzoek van den koophandel der Friezen" - see image.

Since Ottema did not include this in his booklet with historical notes to the OLB (merely the footnote in the translation), he probably thought it needed no explanation.

Note that Furde (German Furt, English Ford) means a fordable/ wadable/ passable (undeep) part of a river/ stream.

Munster.jpg

Edited by Ott
added info 'Furde' / Ottema

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tony S.
21 hours ago, Ott said:

Apparently, Münster has been known as Mimigernaford, Mimigardaforda, Monegerdeforda, Minigerdeforde, Irmegardafoerda (and probably more varieties) in old sources. Ottema's source may have been J. Dirks (1846) "Geschiedkundig onderzoek van den koophandel der Friezen" - see image.

Since Ottema did not include this in his booklet with historical notes to the OLB (merely the footnote in the translation), he probably thought it needed no explanation.

Note that Furde (German Furt, English Ford) means a fordable/ wadable/ passable (undeep) part of a river/ stream.

Munster.jpg

Thanks, that's pretty conclusive. It might be worth compiling a list of all geographical place-names in the OLB (with spelling variants) and, where possible, identifying them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ott

That is what I am working at (also: personal and tribe/folk names), as it will be one of the supplements to my new translation.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tony S.
7 minutes ago, Ott said:

That is what I am working at (also: personal and tribe/folk names), as it will be one of the supplements to my new translation.

Excellent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

FLÉTE JEFTHA BEDRUM

 

The following fragment reminded me of something I read in a linguistic book a while back:

 

[082/19-20]

HWIL THAT ALREK DROK TO KÀMPANE WÉRE

WAS THÉR EN WLA FIN TO THÉRE FLÉTE JEFTHA BEDRUM FON THÉRE MODER INGLUPTH.

 

Perhaps BEDRUM was in that time a new coinage for ‘flat’, since it is composed of two root words, where flat from only one.

 

flat (n.)

1801, "a story of a house," from Scottish flat "floor or story of a house," from Old English flett "a dwelling; floor, ground," (...)

 

 

M. Philippa e.a. (2003-2009) Etymologisch Woordenboek van het Nederlands

flat zn. ‘etagewoning; flatgebouw’

(...)

Ontleend aan Brits-Engels flat ‘verdieping van een huis’ [1801], ‘appartement, flatwoning’ [1824], een aan het bn. flat ‘plat, vlak’ aangepaste ontlening aan Schots flet ‘verdieping van een huis’. Dit is een specifiek Schotse betekenisontwikkeling van Middelengels flet ‘kamer’, Oudengels flet ‘woning’

 

Under the heading ‘Attitudes to anglicisms --> Previous attitudes’. The book The Influence of English on Afrikaans, B.C. Donaldson, Academia (J.L. Van Schaik) publishers, 1991, pg.67:

 

---

 

The “resignation syndrome”, like the pronksugsindroom [glamour-seeking-syndrome], is also an attitude of the past. Another example of it is provided, rather surprisingly, by Smith (1962:64) in a column he wrote in Die Suiderstem from 1936-39:

 

“Veral waar dit selfstandige naamwoorde geld, is dit in die reël doeltreffender om, net soos die Nederlanders, ‘n kort Engelse woord oor te neem en nie ons vernuf te verspil op die smee van allerlei onpraktiese samestellinge vir woorde soos flat, handicap, record, sandwich, scrum, en ander soortgelyk benaminge nie. Vir lift is al voorgestel hyser, hysbak, hysbys, hystoestel en ligter; maar geen enkele van hierdie woorde geniet algemene erkenning nie, en lift is nog altyd verstaanbaarder as hulle almaal. Vir flat is al aan die hand gegee deelwoning, kamerwoning, verdiepingwoning, vloerwoning – ja, selfs plat!”

 

“Especially where nouns are concerned, it is, as a rule, better to adopt a short English word as the Netherlanders do, instead of wasting our time trying to create all kinds of unpractical compositions for words like flat, handicap, record, sandwich, scrum, and other words like these. For lift has been suggested hyser, hysbak, hysbys, hystoestel en ligter; but none of these words are commonly recognised, and lift has always been easier to comprehend than all of them. For flat has been suggested deelwoning, kamerwoning, verdiepingwoning, vloerwoning – yes, even flat!”

 

---

 

How time roles on.~

Namely that ‘bedroom’ may have been a neologism for ‘flat’, and that flat remains even as new words for it are constantly thought up (Engl. apartment, Afr. woonstel etc.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

KANS LAKT

 

[201/15]

THÁ ÁSKAR MÉNDE THAT KANS HIM TO LAKTE.

 

An early example of the phrase ‘fate smiled on’. More literally ‘chance smiled on’ but these are interchangeable as far as the meaning is concerned.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

WRAK ÀND WRÁK

 

[140/03-06]

Quote

 

THACH SAHWERSA EN TOGHATER EN MISSTAP HÉDE

SÁ WÀRTH HJA THAT RING FORJÁN.

THA WRAKKA SÉIDON HJA MOST MÀN HELPA

ÀND VMBE SIN AJN SÉLE TO BIHALDANE MOST MÀN FÜL ANDA CHERKE JÁN.

 

 

Ottema [pg.189-191]

Quote

Doch zoo ergens eene jonge dochter een misstap gedaan had, werd haar dat spoedig vergeven; de zwakken, zeiden zij, moest men helpen, en om zijne eigene ziel te behouden, moest men veel aan de kerk geven. 

This word fits better with Dutch ‘wrak’ (English wrack) and is still recognisible in plural where the end –A becomes an –e as in Afr. wrakke, Gr. Wracke.

 

Also in context of the priests satanic opinion of ‘sin’ or SIN, which is the origin of that word, ‘the wrecks’ or ‘wretched girls’ fits better than ‘weak’.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

LÉT UT.SA

 

The word LÉTSA seems to not have been decifered yet. Possibly it is a compination of LÉT (also spelled LÉD, LÉTH: leed) and SA, a variant of ‘to see’.

 

~ LÉT~

 

[017/14-15]

Quote

 

FORTH MOT.I NÉI THA LÉTSA. THÀT IS THENE HÉLENER.

THÉR MOT SJA JEF ER ÁK BISÉTEN IS FON KVADA TOCHTUM.

 

 

(Ottema pg.27)

Quote

 

Vervolgens moet hij naar den leetse, dat is naar den heelmeester, die moet zien of hij ook bezocht is van kwade tochten.

 

 

(Wirth pg.22)

Quote

 

Dieser bringt ihn zum Burgmeister, fürder zum Leetse, das ist der Heiler : der soll sehen, ob er auch heimgesucht ist von argen Seuchen.

 

 

~SA~

 

[069/11-12]

Quote

 

TO LESTEN KÉMON HJA BY EN LAND THÀT BJUSTRE SKRÍL UT.SA.

MEN HJA FONDON THÉR EN HAVES MVDA.

 

 

(Ottema pg.97)

Quote

Ten laatste kwamen zij bij een land, dat er zeer schraal uitzag, maar zij vonden daar eene havenmond.

 

(Wirth pg.59)

Quote

Zuletzt kamen sie an ein Land, das sehr karg aussah, aber sie fanden dort einen Hafenmund.

 

LÉTSA ==> Someone who looks (SA) at peoples pain (LÉT).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ott

Great that you are taking a fresh look at undecifered words, Pierre. Here are some of my thoughts about it.

SA is indeed used as past tense of 'to see' (SÉ): saw (Dutch/German: zag/sah).

SA is also used for 'to be'/ 'being' (Dutch/German: zijn/sein):

[161/23] VS MILDSA [MILD.SA] - our being mild

[162/10] FRÍ.SA ÀND RJUCHT.HÁ (to be free and to have justice/'right')

LÉT seems related to Dutch 'letsel' (injury, obstacle)

LÉTSA appears in Old-Frisian dictionaries as letza, leza, leka, leischa (Richthofen 1840, meaning: Artzt; medical doctor). It mentions varieties Ahd. lahhi, ags. laeca, lece, lyce, isl. laecknari, engl. leech, dän. laege.

Perhaps this is also helpful, from 1834 German dictionary (E.G. Graff):

My feeling is that it could be related to 'lezen' which used to mean collect, gather; this could have been about collecting healing herbs. Still a guess. This English etymology site also mentions it: https://www.etymonline.com/word/leech

lahhi.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

FINGR. FINGRUM ÀND FIN.GÁRA

 

Jan Ott’s post about a possible etymology for ‘finger’ was very close and inspired me to try as well.

 

After a skalkse photo of a women sleeping, he ends the post by placing an accent on the E (“FIN-GER = FIND-GÉRA”). This gave me the idea to do the same, but with an A.

 

If the vowel between G and R (FING-?-R) was shortened over time, it may have just as well been an A as an E, or these may have crossed later as they are wont to do. The –UM indicates a plural, but so can an –A. (Rule 1: “Note: some of these plurals also occur as ending with -UM in stead of -A.”)

 

Now, GÁRA is still recognizable in Afr. ‘opgaar’:

 

Quote

 

op’gaar, -ge-, versamel, bymekaarmaak

(*Ndl: vergaren, verzamelen, verwerven, vergaderen)

(De: sammeln, zusammenbringen, speichern, aufmessen (Getreide), aufstauen, vergattern)

(Eng: collect, accumulate, amass (riches), store up, hoard, husband, treasure (up), salt away or down, conserve, gather)

 

 

*Note:

Quote

De vormen vergaderen  en vergaren werden eeuwenlang in vrijwel alle betekenissen door elkaar gebruikt; pas in de 19e eeuw vond de definitieve scheiding plaats tussen intransitief vergaderen ‘bijeenkomen van mensen’ en transitief vergaren ‘verzamelen, bijeenbrengen van zaken’. (Source) [Also see this post which helps a lot]

 

‘gaar’ also means (well) cooked, finished, done etc. (Ndl.)(De.)

 

From my Tweetalige Woordeboek/ Bilingual Dictionary; Bosman - Van Der Merwe - Hiemstra, Pharos; Eigth Revised and Enlarged Edition by:  P.A. Joubert & J.J. Spies, 2003:

 

Quote

gaar ge-, vid. opgaar. ~boord garboard, ~boordgang garboard strake. gaarder -s collector, receiver (of revenue)

 

~

 

Consequently we can conject:

FIN.GÁR or FIN.GÉR

in plural:

FIN.GÁRUM (also FIN.GÁRA)

FIN.GÉRUM (also FIN.GÉRA)

 

~ ~

 

fyn opgaarders == (re-)fine(d) gatherers == fein Sammlers == FIN.GÁRUM ==> FINGRUM

 

~ ~ ~

 

Part IV ~ ALGADUR, TOGADUR, GÁD, [TOGHATER]

 

Quote

 

TOGADUR (together) is used once in the OLB.

In oldfashioned Dutch this would be tegaar or tegader, but in modern Dutch the word is samen.

A nice example of an Oldfrisian word that survived in English, but not in Dutch.

 

ALGADUR or ALGÁDUR is used 14 times + once as ALGÁDER = total 15 times.

In English this would be allgather, allgether or alltogether.

In oldfashioned Dutch and various dialects allegaar is known. Modern Dutch is allemaal.

 

There is a word that appears thrice, in three different spelling varieties:

GÁDA, GÁDE, GÁD ~ meaning: partner (oldfashioned Dutch: gade)

This word might be related too.

 

 

[019/14-15] MÉNA ÉWA

Quote

 

2. ALLERA MANNALIK MÉI.T WIF SINRA KÉSA FRÉJA

ÀND EK TOGHATER MÉI EFTER HJRA HELD.DRVNK BJADA THÉR HJU MINTH.      

 

            

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob
Posted (edited)

An interesting article on the German Wiki about the time before Time:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldenes_Zeitalter

Of note is one Frisian Philosopher who seems to have defended the theory of the Golden Age by postulating a natural or cosmic change, I think this is it:

Romein_erfl_Hemsterhuis.gif

https://www.rug.nl/library/heritage/hemsterhuis/hemsterhuisalexis.pdf

I can’t read French, so that is all I have to say.

--

NOCHTA THÉR NW VRLÉREN SEND.~

Edited by Pierre Jakob
Changed 'Dutch' to 'Frisian' Philosopher, because Y-chrosomes
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

BUKJA

 

The word BUKJA first caught my attention last year whilst reading through the old forum discussions. My first reaction was to interpret it through my mothertongue, namely Afr. ‘bokkie’(compare Frisian bokje) --: this is the deminutive of ‘bok’ (De. Bock, Eng. buck) and is used among other things as a pet name between lovers.

 

An example (* indicates a reconstruction):

 

*OCH MIN BUKJA, THU LIKST LJAFLIK.

Ag my bokkie, jy lyk lieflik.

Jou look lovely my deer.

 

The context as far as I can see allows for this, but ‘buikje’ or the dimunitive of womb also makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

SKÁK SKÁKTH?

 

The game of skaak (Engl. chess) is supposed to derive its name through Roman and Arabic languages from the Persian word shāh, which means king.

 

Quote

 

(Wiki:) The game was taken up by the Muslim world after the Islamic conquest of Persia, with the pieces largely keeping their Persian names. The Moors of North Africa rendered Persian "shatranj" as shaṭerej, which gave rise to the Spanish acedrex, axedrez and ajedrez; in Portuguese it became xadrez, and in Greek zatrikion, but in the rest of Europe it was replaced by versions of the Persian shāh ("king"). Thus, the game came to be called:

 

ludus scacchorum or scacc(h)i in Latin,

scacchi in Italian,

escacs in Catalan,

échecs in French (Old French eschecs);

schaken in Dutch,

Schach in German,

szachy in Polish,

šahs in Latvian,

skak in Danish,

sjakk in Norwegian,

schack in Swedish,

šakki in Finnish,

šah in South Slavic languages,

sakk in Hungarian and

şah in Romanian

 

 

Note:

Quote

 

(Wiki:) Diese Ansicht geht im Wesentlichen auf zwei Schachforscher des 19. Jahrhunderts, Antonius van der Linde (!) und Von der Lasa zurück und kulminierte 1913 im umfassenden "A history of Chess" des Engländers H.J.R. Murray.

 --

[German Wiki translated:] This theory [that the seeds of chess sprung from India and developed from there to Persia and finally to Europe] is essentially the work of two researchers from the 19th century, Antonius van der Linde (!) and Von der Lasa and culminated in the work of H.J.R. Murray "A history of Chess" in 1913.

 

 

Compare these Frisian words:

 

skaak == positie van de koning(?) waarin deze in de volgende zet genomen kan worden.

skake [ww.]== Schaken, schaak spelen.

skake [ww.]== (Een vrouw) ontvoeren.

skaker [z.nw.]== Schaker, man die een vrouw schaakt, ontvoert.

 

Quote

 

(schaak: bn. ‘in een positie waarin de koning(?) geslagen kan worden’)

(...)

Ontleend aan middeleeuws Latijn sca(c)cus, sca(c)chus ‘schaakstuk’, mv. ‘schaakspel’ [midden 9e eeuw; Niermeyer], of aan Frans eschac, mv. eschas [ca. 1165; Rey], variant van eschecs ‘schaakspel’ [1080; Rey], ook eschec ‘de situatie waarin koning of koningin geslagen kan worden’ [ca. 1170; TLF], die beide via het Arabisch ontleend zijn aan Perzisch šāh ‘koning’, met name ‘koning in het schaakspel’. Mogelijk is de -c aan het woordeinde in het Frans ontstaan onder invloed van eschec, eschac ‘(oorlogs)buit’, ontwikkeld uit Frankisch *skāk ‘id.’, zie → schaken 2, omdat de uitroep eschac! ook geïnterpreteerd kon worden als ‘buit!’.

 

 

Quote

 

schaken 2 ww. ‘(een vrouw) ontvoeren’

(...)

Bij het zn. schaak: mnd. schāk; ohd. scāh; ofri. skāk, skākrāf; alle ‘(gewelddadige) roof’, < pgm. *skēka-. Oudfrans eschec ‘buit’ (verouderd, en niet verwant met het onder → echec en → schaak behandelde woord) is ontleend aan een onl. vorm *skāk.

Bij het zn. schaker: mnd. schaker; ohd. scāhhāri (nhd. Schächer); ofri. skāker(e); oe. scēacere; alle ‘rover’. Gezien de wijdere verspreiding is dit geen nomen agentis bij een werkwoord, maar bij het zn. *skēka-.

 

 

OLB variants: SKÁKA, SKÁKANA, SKÁKJA, SKÁKTH, SKÁKTON

 

Schaken or its varients are usually used to refer to the abduction of Fryan women or children and is used instead of RAWA (to rob).  RAWA is usually used for the robbing of things and non-Fryan people (see [209/01] and [157/05] where ‘roven’ is used instead of ‘schaken’ for the stealing of women.)

 

~

 

About the supposed Indian origin from where the Persian word shāh would be derived, I do not know enough to comment on. But that the root of skaak and other NW-block variants stems from shāh, seems dubious when compared to old Frisian SKÁK as the etymological source.

 

This would then also call in to question whether the king or the queen (:volksmoeder) was the object of the game.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ott
On 9-6-2018 at 8:12 PM, Pierre Jakob said:

... the deminutive of ‘bok’ (De. Bock, Eng. buck) and is used among other things as a pet name between lovers.

The word for a male animal used for a male lover makes sense, but for a female or young girl?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob
1 hour ago, Ott said:

The word for a male animal used for a male lover makes sense, but for a female or young girl?

Yes, but then only by her lover and always in dimunitive form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob
Quote

bokkie

Otherwise, it is used for young boys in the context of sports. But I think this is because of the national Rugby team name and rugby leagues for youngsters derived from that name (die Springbokke).

 

A possibility which I haven't considered untill now - but I think more unlikely than the obvious buik-je - is that BUKJA referred to a young boy, a young bok-je.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skirnum

I just wanted to share this one.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ott

What is the relevance for this thread besides the image of Nehalennia?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skirnum
6 hours ago, Ott said:

What is the relevance for this thread besides the image of Nehalennia?

The story of Idun is one of the Norse myths memory of the loss of the symbolic female with her symbolic apples. Oera Linda book is also about this loss as I see it. The loss of wisdom. The interesting thing is, however, that two widely different sources talk about the same thing, but in different ways. Therefore, I think it is relevant. As I see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre Jakob

Something that struck me while reading the following:

 

[101/01-02] False priests and servants of god

Quote

 

MEN THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA

THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA.

 

 

PRESTER here reminded me of praise (Nl. prijs De. preisen), namely god’s servants or praisers. Although it would be a more likely link if the first ‘E’ was accentuated, which it is not, still I thought it noteworthy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Van Gorp
On 4-6-2018 at 1:33 PM, Pierre Jakob said:

FINGR. FINGRUM ÀND FIN.GÁRA

 

Jan Ott’s post about a possible etymology for ‘finger’ was very close and inspired me to try as well.

 

After a skalkse photo of a women sleeping, he ends the post by placing an accent on the E (“FIN-GER = FIND-GÉRA”). This gave me the idea to do the same, but with an A.

 

If the vowel between G and R (FING-?-R) was shortened over time, it may have just as well been an A as an E, or these may have crossed later as they are wont to do. The –UM indicates a plural, but so can an –A. (Rule 1: “Note: some of these plurals also occur as ending with -UM in stead of -A.”)

 

Now, GÁRA is still recognizable in Afr. ‘opgaar’:

 

 

*Note:

 

‘gaar’ also means (well) cooked, finished, done etc. (Ndl.)(De.)

 

From my Tweetalige Woordeboek/ Bilingual Dictionary; Bosman - Van Der Merwe - Hiemstra, Pharos; Eigth Revised and Enlarged Edition by:  P.A. Joubert & J.J. Spies, 2003:

 

 

~

 

Consequently we can conject:

FIN.GÁR or FIN.GÉR

in plural:

FIN.GÁRUM (also FIN.GÁRA)

FIN.GÉRUM (also FIN.GÉRA)

 

~ ~

 

fyn opgaarders == (re-)fine(d) gatherers == fein Sammlers == FIN.GÁRUM ==> FINGRUM

 

~ ~ ~

 

Part IV ~ ALGADUR, TOGADUR, GÁD, [TOGHATER]

 

 

[019/14-15] MÉNA ÉWA

            

 

 

 

I fully agree with the 'gathering' the fingers do.

On top, they all look like pins (or vins or fins as you will) too me as well.

Mind the dutch word 'pink' (how is it in Afrikaans pinkie?) as the little pin: pinn-eke :-)

 

So a finger (vinger) seems to me right as it says: a pin-gaar, fin-gaar, vin-gaar.

So when we use our fin-gaar to gather stuff together, we actually catch it with our 'vangers'.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.