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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

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Piney
On 12/2/2018 at 7:06 AM, Pierre Jakob said:

While thinking of NOCHT I was reminded of the name Enoch, which is not Jewish but Frisian (ENOCH = enough).

That's stretching "mass comparison" to the extremes. Because a word sounds the same. It doesn't mean they are related.  

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Pierre Jakob

FromFinland, does the Bock Saga say anything about pentagrams?

 

I found it interesting how they view the expansion from Hel the North Pole by 6 HEXA in a hexagramical fashion (if I recall correctly).(Could you perhaps tell more about this?)

 

This is a significant link between the old Fryan and Finnish cultures I think – the significance of the sixspoke wheel hardly needs mentioning.

 

From Wiki-surfing I found that an older simbol for Venus was apparantly the pentagram:

Quote

 

Ein früheres Venussymbol war in der Antike das Pentagramm, sowohl für die Göttin – bei den Sumerern die Inanna, in Babylonien die Ištar – als auch für den Planeten. (Wiki)

 

 

Also Venus might = Frya.

 

Then if one looks at the modern simboles for Earth [] compared to Venus [], these are mirror images of each other. If the pentagram was an older simbole for Venus, perhaps an inverted pentagram could have counted for earth? Or the inverse.

 

I also realise there are many other – even astronomical – interpretations of the pentagram so this is only a light-hearted guess.

Edited by Pierre Jakob
added last two lines
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Van Gorp
4 hours ago, Razumov said:

You can prove anything and nothing with this kind of analysis. I have never once seen it lead to the falsification of a theory. It ALWAYS confirms what the researcher already believed. As such it is simply and endless supply of false positives that mean nothing and lead nowhere.

If you were really looking for the remains of a lost high civilization, you would be looking for math, not language, as math doesn't mutate anywhere near as quickly as language does.

It's not about proving anything, unless it means 'proeven' in its literally meaning from where the word comes: 'proef' means tasting in Dutch.

The proof is in the eating?

Well, that's what i like: geneughte van de taal (to tell, here you have your match with the math: tellen).

 

We'll see where it leads, and en cours de route: the beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

For this one it could lead to the idea that the Dutch word 'verknochten' does not come from verknoffen/vernkopen as one could believe.

The F comes from the CH, like after comes from achter.

 

Verknocht than comes from Vergenoegd and the KNOCHT is not KNOFT but geNOCHT (geneughte).

So not binded by enstrengling by a knot, but by the nocht it brings.

 

Just using OLB as inspiration and nochta :-)

 

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Pierre Jakob
On 12/3/2018 at 8:50 AM, Pierre Jakob said:

(...)

Also that the word - as far as our current understanding of its etymology is concerned - comes from the monasteries in Germany, makes me think that some "umwertung" (: changing of meaning) might have occured if the root of the word was indeed NOCHT which is understood as pleasure a.o.

(...)

For the difficulty to reconcile ‘nuchter’ with NOCHT, that is to say pleasure with stoicism, which are seamingly opposites – I know of one other example.

 

The word for ‘sin’ in the Teutonic languages is ‘sonde’ (sünde) – while this word seems suspiciously close to sound, gesond, Gesund which means health (see table below with Dutch etymologiebank as source). Simmilarly the word ‘sin’ in English is what is generally understood as ‘sense’ in the other NW-block languages.

 

SOUND / GESOND = HEALTH

SONDE / SIN = ?

os. gisund (mnd. gesunt);

os. sundia (mnd. sünde);

ohd. gisunt(i) (nhd. gesund);

ohd. sunta (nhd. Sünde);

oe. gesund (ne. sound).

oe. syn(n) (ne. sin);

mnd. sunt (> nzw. sund); nfri. sûnd (nfri. sûn) [Zonder voorvoegsel]

ofri. sende, sinde (maar nfri. sûnde, sonde is ontleend aan het nnl.);

on. synd (wrsch. ontleend aan het mnd.; nzw. synd); alle ‘zonde’

 

Whether (ge-) sond is an old word I do not know*, but with the simple addition of an -e (which is a common deflective-sound after a hard ‘d’ or ‘t’) the meaning changes from health to ‘sin’.

 

*One finds in the OLB: VRSÔNDATH, translated by Ottema as verzand (i.e. sand as verb: "to bury or fill in with sand.")

 

Old Frisian for sand was sond, perhaps sand and sound (gesond) has a common root:

 

as in what is healthy

appears as if sanded (polished)

which is sound

and clear like glass.

 

Sand seems to be a main ingredient in making glass, which is at least 3600 years old according to Wikipedia.

Edited by Pierre Jakob
editing

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Razumov
On 12/2/2018 at 4:00 PM, Van Gorp said:

Jews take names with meaning and reform it to a lesser meaningful name: Enoch=Heinik (Ik Hein)

Heinen: like in om-heining (enclosure, to fence, to keep together by seperation).

People trying to cope with the massive cognitive dissonance caused by their harebrained theories often resort to nonsense word games like this.

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Van Gorp
16 hours ago, Razumov said:

People trying to cope with the massive cognitive dissonance caused by their harebrained theories often resort to nonsense word games like this.

To spell the word is to HASPEL it into parts. 

It is a spel.

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Abramelin
22 hours ago, Van Gorp said:

To spell the word is to HASPEL it into parts. 

It is a spel.

'Please, try to read and understand this pdf about Proto Germanic instead of happily playing with words under the name of 'alternative etymology '.

https://folksprak.org/common/material/pdf/A-Grammar-of-Proto-Germanic.pdf

 

 

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Van Gorp
1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

'Please, try to read and understand this pdf about Proto Germanic instead of happily playing with words under the name of 'alternative etymology '.

https://folksprak.org/common/material/pdf/A-Grammar-of-Proto-Germanic.pdf

 

 

 

Correction, it is under the name of 'true etymology' :-)

What you brought up is a summary about an alternative and theoretical construct, gladly taken over by people not having a clue how words are meaningfully formed in their origin. And I confess: there are many :-)

I'm not into theory, I leave that for others ...

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cormac mac airt
On 12/4/2018 at 6:59 PM, Razumov said:

People trying to cope with the massive cognitive dissonance caused by their harebrained theories often resort to nonsense word games like this.

That's why many of us at UM identify such nonsense as "Lego-linguistics". One can pretty much make it say/mean anything one wants it to. 

cormac

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Van Gorp

Yes that's true, you can make much of it.

That's why it is called 'spelen' (to play), to give some room for mouvement but in the right direction.
And have some spillovers if you want, you see 'afspoelen' 'afspelen' (spill, axe) and the unrollment of the thread?
Spell the word, is to unroll it bit by it (by meaningfull parts) in an easy and playfull way.
That's why we call it 'een tekst afhaspelen' for to recite a text bit by bit as if it was childplay easy.

Why do we need this play? Just let it be: because it's not that we can do it now for intrepretation afterwards
that it is not also used as a common denominator when the word was formed.

It had to play on the mind with its true meaning for the first second it was uttered, then it's a good word.

Take press: that's the way we understand the written word.
Where does it come from? In my language it comes from 'persen' (yes yes, to press)

Pers en press are the same for you and i. Parsing a code is also pressing the code through
(door, deur, why don't you say in English the same for through?) the interpreter.
Just pressing the ink, the letters, the pencil, the clay, whatever used ...

P and V can be interchanged, than we come directly to the 'verse'.

For me fine to find a theory to fit all and more ...
Mean time, having fun :-)

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Pierre Jakob

SÉLICH

 

This word appearing in the following Gestalten in the OLB (Ott):

 

SALICHHÉD [36], SÉLIGHÉD [pp.158(3x),159]

NL: zaligheid

E: delight, blissfulness

 

In German also as selig, Seligkeit.

 

Quote

 

zalig bn. ‘intens gelukkig; het eeuwig heil deelachtig; verrukking teweegbrengend, heerlijk

(...)

Os. sālig (mnd. saligselig); ohd. sālīg (nhd. selig); ofri. sēlich (nfri. sillich); oe. (ge)sǣlig ‘gelukkig’ (ne. silly (zie onder), vero. seely); on. sælligr; < pgm. *sēlīga- ‘gelukkig’.
Afleiding van sēli- ‘id.’, waaruit: oe. un-sǣle ‘boosaardig’; on. sæll ‘gelukkig’ (nzw. säll ‘gelukzalig’); on. úsæll‘arm(zalig)’ (nzw. usel ‘slecht’); got. sēls ‘goed, deugdelijk’.
Verdere herkomst onzeker.

(...)

(Etimologiebank)

 

 

I propose that this is simply the word SÉLE with an -ICH suffix (see -ig here).

 

So that saligheid means to have soul (: soulfulness).

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Van Gorp
3 hours ago, Pierre Jakob said:

SÉLICH

 

This word appearing in the following Gestalten in the OLB (Ott):

 

SALICHHÉD [36], SÉLIGHÉD [pp.158(3x),159]

NL: zaligheid

E: delight, blissfulness

 

In German also as selig, Seligkeit.

 

 

I propose that this is simply the word SÉLE with an -ICH suffix (see -ig here).

 

So that saligheid means to have soul (: soulfulness).

 

I like.

To have a 360 degree view on it: how do you see 'zielig' (pathetic) in this?

 

What seems to me rather antonyms 'zalig' and 'zielig' are then based on the same ...

Is that a matter of convention you think?

Because why not  even so say in modern Dutch 'zielig' for blissfull.

At these times I think no Dutch speaking person would use it like this, afraid to be mistaken.

The one I can think is convention, because what more can address the soul then the state of blisfullness.

Is it compassion with the other?

 

 

 

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Razumov

So what are the outlines of this Frisia theory?

What is the time frame?

Was this a high civilization?

Is this Hyperborea?

Are they Neanderthal?

Is it on the inside or outside of the earth?

Is this pre or post flood?

46413b.JPG?v=1493075254

 

 

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Pierre Jakob
15 hours ago, Van Gorp said:

(...)

Because why not  even so say in modern Dutch 'zielig' for blissfull.

(...)

In this case SÉLE might have splintered in Dutch (gerekde É => Á, so selich => salich) while retaining the É in German (selig).

Then on another occasion the same root SÉLE does not become an Á but an 'ie' sound (siel).

But even this etymology that: SÉLICH = SÉLE + -ICH is not sure, because SALICHHÉD is also used in the text, indicating they did not feel the root of the word to be SÉLE which is always spelled with an 'É'.

 

So why we do not say 'sielig' today I cannot say. If this etymology is correct then it is simply bad luck that 'siel' and 'salich' is so far removed from SÉLE and SÉLICH.

 

zersplinterung

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FFv3
On 4.12.2018 at 8:18 AM, Pierre Jakob said:

FromFinland, does the Bock Saga say anything about pentagrams?

I found it interesting how they view the expansion from Hel the North Pole by 6 HEXA in a hexagramical fashion (if I recall correctly).(Could you perhaps tell more about this?)

If we understand pentagram purely as crossing lines type of motif, then no. But there is a lot on the meaning of various star outline shapes. In Ior Bock's 1996 book, five pointed star is mentioned a being a star of mankind, both female and male. The story also uses traditional word related to Christmas dwarfs and little elves (tomtar) to describe the mankind. Six pointed star is mentioned to represent the mythic figure of Balder, alias Lemminkäinen. Seven pointed star is said to represent Oden, echoing traditional Swedish and Finnish names for seven star Big Dipper (Oden's vagn and Otava).

As for the hexes, they are ring lands. As in central holy land surrounded by countless circle shaped lands which also form circles. In this sense the closest circle of lands consists of six lands, but as the circle diamater grows when moving outwards, the amount of lands grows at the same time. 'Land' is understood here as notional division of mankind into administrative regions, less to do with actual geography (seas, mountains...) as such. Those described for Finland, western Russia and Baltics states echo those known from other historical sources. Most of the alleged ancient Finnish administrative regions are recognisable for their modern counterparts.

Overall this is a variant of the international Atlantis myth. Instead of circling zones of water and land (as how formations like the Eye of Sahara could have had it), we have circles of lands. The Indian variant of the international Atlantis myth takes it apparently also downwards in a seemingly Dante-like fashion, with several underground levels of Patala and Atala. Some of the peculiar details over there echo the non-Bock saga Finnish language Atlantis traditions (lustful women of Atala cf. sea king Ahti the Islander having erotic affairs with 1000s of women, the character also attested briefly as Auða of Finland in ch. 17 of Ynglingasaga tradition).

Now, other than the first surrounding circle consisting of six regional lands, Ior and some of his friends opinioned that if we understand the concept literally, there would be empty areas left between the countless circles shaped administrative areas. Thus the idea of literal hex-shaped countries, as they would lock up perfectly as in honeycombs. The idea may be a derivative of the title for the administrative governors rabi, from Swedish bi 'bee' (a thing echoed in Finnish language SKVR poetry). The people of northern England have also Raby castle, Raby street etc. suggesting the naming pattern is no way peculiar to Finnish regions alone (king Rapo of Rapola hill fort, Raseborg castle etc.).

Edited by FFv3
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FFv3
On 8.12.2018 at 12:28 AM, Razumov said:

So what are the outlines of this Frisia theory?

What is the time frame?

Was this a high civilization?

Is this Hyperborea?

Are they Neanderthal?

Is it on the inside or outside of the earth?

Is this pre or post flood?

Dude u high or Hyperborea or wut?

 

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FFv3
On 6.12.2018 at 6:08 PM, Abramelin said:

Right on introduction: "Proto-Germanic (PGmc) is the reconstructed language"... "As a reconstructed language, Proto-Germanic is not attested in texts; the material on which it is based is found in the attested dialects that developed from it".

"is found in the attested"

Sure it is.

That's why all the asterisk words in it...

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Abramelin
On ‎10‎-‎12‎-‎2018 at 12:46 AM, FFv3 said:

Right on introduction: "Proto-Germanic (PGmc) is the reconstructed language"... "As a reconstructed language, Proto-Germanic is not attested in texts; the material on which it is based is found in the attested dialects that developed from it".

"is found in the attested"

Sure it is.

That's why all the asterisk words in it...

It's indeed a reconstructed language, but it is based on linguistics and not on 'happy hour' nonsense..

Btw, based on another reconstructed language, Proto Indo-European, linguists were able to translate Hittite. I don't think Van Gorp would be able to that, using his version of linguistics...

 

 

Edited by Abramelin
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Van Gorp

Off course Abe means some things seemingly doesn't make sense to him, rather than it doesn't make sense at all.

 

The sense of a sentence?

For us it is all the same.  It goes together, tegader, dat gaat samen :-)

We don't need any theoretical reconstruction for this.

 

But to meet in the middle: let's look at the reconstruction knowledge of 'HESP':

https://linguistics.ucla.edu/people/Melchert/fsjasanoff.pdf

Many words, and for everyone open to retrieve the sense of it as he likes.

 

For me, a take one picture as it is told to say more than 1000 words.

St-Eloy-gedroogde-hesp-IPR_9546web.jpg?i

 

 

And now we all know where Spain got it's name from ?

But actually, that's no now-is.

Edited by Van Gorp
HISPANIA :-)

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Pierre Jakob

Feeder-theft?

feeder_theft.JPG.2585b1c663d1ee61a5dd6e5d19e00f0d.JPG

 

A suggestion that FÀDER.RÁV in the primal text of Frya does not refer to “father” but to “feeder”.

 

This because Wralda’s spirit is said in the second point to be the only thing to one should give kneeling thanks, thus to receive kneeling gratitude from others would equal the reverence that is due to the World, or ‘God’.

 

Clearly there must have been an error or mix-up while writing this part over, but whether one takes FÀDER. RÁV or FODER.RÁV as correct it may well both refer to feeder, just with different flexions of the vowel.

 

The À sound can easily be equated with the E sound, this then stretched to the É sound which would make the word FÀD = FED and FED to FÉD (: fed, past tense of feed = [AL.]FÉDER a name also used for Wralda). Otherwise one can read it as FODER.RÁV which is exactly the same.

 

Note that FÀDERJA is used once in the text, for this I have no explenation. “Feeder-theft” in the same sense and sentence (SIN) referring to Wralda makes more sense to me than “father-theft”.

 

[12 / 5-10]

Quote

 

4. NIM NÀMMAR KNI.BUWGJANDE TÁNK FON.JV NÉSTON ÁN.

THJUS ÁGATH WRALDA.S GÁST.

NID SKOLDE J BIKRJUPA.

WISDOM SKOLDE J BILÀKA

ÀND MIN FAMNA SKOLDON JO BITÍZA FON FÀDER.RÁV

 

 

Ottema, pg.21

Quote

 

4. Neem nimmer kniebuigende van uwen naaste dank aan,

deze behoort aan Wraldas geest. De nijd zoude u bekruipen ; de

wijsheid zoude u belagchen; mijne maagden zouden u betigten

van vaderroof.

 

 

Wirth, pg.18

Quote

 

4. Nehmt nimmer kniebeugend Dank von eurem Nächsten an : solches gehört

dem Geiste Wraldas. Neid würde euch bekriechen, Weisheit würde euch

verlachen und meine Maiden würden euch des Vaterraubes bezichtigen.

 

 

Sandbach, pg.21 (online)

Quote

4. Let not your neighbour express his thanks to you on bended knee, which is only due to Wr-alda’s spirit. Envy would assail you, Wisdom would ridicule you, and my maidens would accuse you of irreverence.

 

Ott, provisional-translation (here)

Quote

4. Never accept obeisance from your kinsmen, for it is due to Wralda's spirit. Envy would follow you, wisdom would ridicule you and my maidens would accuse you of father-theft.

 

=========

 

[189-190 / 30-32,1] Rika’s rede about name-stealing

Quote

 

MEN THÀT.NE MÀN HIM LÉT FÉDER HÉTE VMBE THAT.ER TÁT SÍ.

THÀT STRID WITH.ÀJEN ALLE RÉDNUM.

 

 

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Ott

I have always read 'father-theft' as all-father/ all-feeder - theft, because it is the only thing that makes sense.

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