Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

[Flashbangwallop]

Jan Ott: It seems it's much the same as The Iliad. The closer you get to a straight interpretation the harder it becomes to read to our modern ears.

Today there is a trend to what I consider gobble de gook as in text messaging. I'm sure you have seen the trend without more of my explanation.

[Ott]

a man named William Barnes had defended the OLB

Do you have as source for that?

"The pure Friesic and easy wording of the Oera Linda Book must be most welcome to students of English and Saxon, as a widening of the now too narrow ground of the early speech of our fore-fathers."

Wm. Barnes.

Macmillan's Magazine, April 1877, p. 465.

[Ott]

[The Puzzler]

Do you have as source for that?

"The pure Friesic and easy wording of the Oera Linda Book must be most welcome to students of English and Saxon, as a widening of the now too narrow ground of the early speech of our fore-fathers."

Wm. Barnes.

Macmillan's Magazine, April 1877, p. 465.

I only read it in a magazine article in New Dawn (by Frank Joseph, who is a bit sensationalist) but the article did quote him as saying it for MacMillan Magazine. I'll get the New Dawn issue # to source his Tacitus comment.

It says: "William Barnes, a contemporary authority on Anglo-Saxon antiquities, declared in London's MacMillan Magazine that it featured far too many verifiable historical details for anyone other than a trained scholar to have included. As internal evidence he cited some convincing, obscure parallels from Germanicus of Tacitus."

July-August 2013 New Dawn page 33 (unsure where the actual citation is for him saying that though). Possibly found in his book Survivors of Atlantis 2004, which article says most of the text is sourced from.

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/back-issues/new-dawn-139-july-august-2013

Edited October 24, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

In the 19th century, writers such as Charles Dickens, Thomas Hardy and William Barnes advocated linguistic purism and tried to introduce words like birdlore for ornithology and bendsome for flexible. A notable supporter in the 20th century was George Orwell, who advocated what he saw as plain Saxon words over complex Latin or Greek ones, and the idea continues to have advocates today.

A noted advocate of English linguistic purism was 19th-century English writer, poet, minister, and philologist William Barnes, who sought to make scholarly English easier to understand without a classical education. Barnes lamented the "needless inbringing" of foreign words; instead using native words from his own dialect and coining new ones based on Old English roots. These included speechcraft for grammar, birdlore for ornithology, fore-elders for ancestors and bendsome for flexible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_purism_in_English

This is basically what I see in the OLB, the words are not Latin or Greek hence why I insist on finding them in non-Latin or Greek roots.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Anglo-Saxon_origin

[Ott]

[The Puzzler]

Nice.

Just an editing thing, (You know me, gotta put my 2c in.) Adela STRUCK first, rather than STROKE first and I think SPEAR is better than STAFF (even though sword actually contexts better as Sandbach has it, swinging it above her head, but it's not really the word either).

gêr 6, gê-r, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Ger, Speer; ne. spear (N.); Vw.: s. et-, -fa-n-g, -jev-e*; Hw.: s. gâ-r-a; vgl. got. *gais, an. geirr, ae. gār, as. gêr* (2), ahd. gēr; Q.: R, H, W; E.: germ. *gaiza-, *gaizaz, st. M. (a), Spieß (M.) (1), Stab, Speer, Ger; idg. *g̑ʰaiso-, Sb.,

gar (n.) pike-like fish, 1765, American English, shortening of garfish (mid-15c.), from fish (n.) + Middle English gare, gore "a spear," from Old English gar "spear," from Proto-Germanic *gaizaz "spear" (cognates: Old Norse geirr "spear; point of an anvil," Old Saxon, Old High German ger, German Ger "spear"), from PIE *ghaiso- "a stick, spear" (see goad (n.)). The fish so called for its long sharp snout. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=spear&searchmode=none

[Ott]

Adela STRUCK first, rather than STROKE first and I think SPEAR is better than STAFF (even though sword actually contexts better as Sandbach has it, swinging it above her head, but it's not really the word either).

Thank you very much, Puzzler. I will change it into "struck".

As for GÉRT, I posted on 18-04-2013:

Wirth (German, 1933): "und ihr Schwert gleich lang"

Jensma (Dutch, 2006): "en haar zwaard evenveel"

All translations assume - from the context - that GÉRT means sword.

Everywhere else in OLB, GÉRT means desire (Dutch: begeerte).

It is used in the combination MANGÉRTE = girl or young woman, as a name (the daughter of PIRE) and her followers, the GÉRTMANNA.

In the fragment, I don't think it meant sword, but something like a staff or long rod.

Hettema Oldfrisian dictionary (1832): Gerd, geerd = roede (rod)

Etymologiebank: garde = rod, stick

Gtb: garde, gaarde, gerde = rod

I thought of adding this to the final version:

To be complete here is the last page of this section:

And a text only version of Brunno + eulogy:

These are writings by Brunno who was scribe at this burgh.

After Adela's followers had made copies of the writings on the walls of their burghs, they decided to elect a folk-mother. A meetings was organized for that here. As suggested by Adela, Tuntia was nominated. That would have succeeded, but then my burgh-maiden intervened. She had always hoped to become mother, because most elected mothers had been burgh-maiden here. When it was her turn, she opened her false lips and spoke:

"You all seem convinced that Adela was right, but that will not keep me silent. Who is Adela anyway and why do you praise her so much? She was burgh-maiden here, what I am now. But does that make her wiser or better than me and all the others, or is she more traditional? If so, she should have become mother when she was elected. But no, she preferred marriage with all connected joys and pleasures, instead of watching over herself and the folk in solitude. She may be very clairvoyant, but I am not blind either. I have observed that she adores her beloved. That is admirable indeed. But I also notice that Tuntia is Apol's cousin. I rest my case."

The chieftains very well understood her hidden agenda, but the folk became split in two and the majority being from here refused to grant Tuntia the honor. Reason ended, knives were drawn, but no mother got elected. Shortly after that, one of our messengers killed his companion. Because he had no criminal record, my burgh-maiden had permission to just banish him. But instead of delivering him to Twiskland, she fled with him over the Weser, straight to the magus. To please his Fryan community, he made her mother of Godaburgh in Skeanland. But wanting more, she told him that if he could remove Adela, he would conquer whole Fryasland. She said she hated Adela for having prevented her from being elected mother. If he would promise her Texland, her messenger would guide his army. All this was confessed by her messenger.

The second report.

Fifteen months after the last assembly, it was friendship- or winnemonth [May]. All surrendered to joy and happiness and none cared about anything but seeking pleasure. But Wralda would teach us not to neglect wakefulness. In the midst of festivities, a dense fog developed, obscuring our region. Pleasure left us, but wakefulness did not replace it. The beach guards had left their signal posts, nor was any of them at the access roads. When the fog dissolved, the sun glanced through the clouds. All came outside again, cheering and yelling. The singing youth paraded with blossoming branches that spread a lovely fragrance.

But while everyone bathed in delight, treason had landed, with horses and riders. Like all evil, they were helped by the dark and had sneaked through the paths of Lindawood. Twelve girls with twelve lambs and twelve boys with twelve calves passed by Adela's door. A young Saxman rode a wild bull that he had caught and tamed. They were decorated with a variety of flowers and the girls' linen tunics were fringed with rhinegold. When Adela came outside, flowers rained upon her head. All cheered and the boys' horns resounded.

Poor Adela, poor folk! How short will your joy last. When the procession was out of sight, a group of Magyar riders came galloping straight towards Adela's home. Her father and her husband were still sitting on the bench. The door was open, and inside stood Adelbrost her son. When he saw that his parents were in danger, he took his bow and aimed at the gang leader, who tumbled and fell in the grass. The second and third met a similar fate. Meanwhile, his parents had taken their arms and approached them recklessly. The gang could easily have taken them, but Adela struck first.

At the burgh she had learned to handle all weapons. She was seven earth-feet tall and her staff was as long. She swung it over her head three times and when it struck, another attacker bit the grass. Helpers came from around the corner, so the gang was defeated and caught. But it was too late. An arrow had hit her in the chest. The insidious magus had poisoned the tip, causing her death.

~

Ode to the burgh-maiden

Yes, distant comrade.

Thousands have come and yet more are on their way.

Why? To learn from Adela's wisdom.

Indeed she is prime! She was always ahead of her time.

Oh, argh! What could she have done?

She spun and wove her own linen shirt and woolen tunic.

What could have increased her beauty?

Not pearls, as her teeth were whiter.

Not gold, as her hair shone brighter.

Not jewels, as her eyes, though soft as of lambs,

were so glowing that one hardly dared see in them.

But why talk of beauty?

Frya could not have been more beautiful.

Yes, comrade. Frya, who had seven beauties,

of which her daughters inherited one each, or at most three.

But even if she had been ugly, she would have been dear to us.

Was she heroic? Listen, comrade.

Adela was our reeve's only child, seven earth-feet tall.

But even greater than her shape was her wisdom,

and her courage was like both combined.

Imagine! There once was a peat fire.

Three children had jumped upon that stone grave.

Wind stoked up the fire.

They screamed but their mothers were desperate.

Then Adela came, crying: "What are you waiting for?

Try to help them and Wralda will give you strength!"

She leaps to the small wood,

grabs some alder stems, and makes a bridge.

Now the others come to help and save the kids.

They come back here every year with flowers.

Three Phoenician sailors tried to abuse our children.

But Adela heard them scream and came.

She knocks the molesters out

and to make them admit how unworthy they are,

she ties them to a distaff.

Their foreign masters came to look for them and became furious

when they saw how they had been humiliated.

But guess what they did when we told them everything.

They bowed for Adela and kissed the fringe of her tunic.

But come, distant comrade!

The forest birds flee for the numerous visitors.

Comrade, learn about her wisdom!

Near the stone grave, mentioned in the ode, Adela was buried. This was written on her gravestone: "Do not hurry, for here lies Adela."

Edited October 26, 2015 by Jan Ott

[Passing Time]

Thank you for the feedback, PT.

anda" - where do you think this refers to a tribe or nation?

maybe page 1 lines 14 - 15 anda , tys , allen......Tys also mentioned again page 39.

i wondered why your page 3 was new to me..... but you may remember when i had a break in , and lost my computer amongst other things ,along with my original identity on UM . i got the original pages of the OLB MS from your blog , and have only just realised i think you missed out page 3 .... dont know if you were aware .

The sentence here is :- Tha nei that er mar vrhlapen weron as thriv et melda was all Go.red Anda Tys and Alen say by hiara kumste. ......what do you think this sentence says then JO ????

and could the vrhlapen refer maybe to the Laplanders ??

Edited October 26, 2015 by Passing Time

[Passing Time]

Hello Passing Time,

I had not heard of the OLB until Abe started the thread and as the thread developed so did my interest.I haven't read the OLB ,and through the efforts of the members that have engaged and shared their views I have gained a worthwhile source of historical information, thanks to all of you. I have always worked in the construction industry and applied myself to learning to expand my understanding in that area of my life, I found this site by accident when I first started using a computer and used this site to develop computer skills,which in turn gave me an opportunity to explore history much to my surprize.

jmccr8

Thanks jmccr8 , i had also been reading their thread for about 18 months before i decided to take the time to read OLB ,

and i agree with you i also learned a lot of history from their informative posts .i think you would get even more out of the

thread in my opinion if you were to read it ...... thanks again for your reply jmccr8.

[Ott]

Tys also mentioned again page 39.

p.001 - ANDA TÍS

p.039 - IN THA TÍS

Still a Frisian expression: "yn'e tiis" - in a/the knot, confused

source

Tha nei that er mar vrhlapen weron as thriv et melda was all Go.red Anda Tys and Alen say by hiara kumste. ......what do you think this sentence says then JO ????

Dutch/Frisian (literal:)

Doch na dat er meer verlopen waren als drie etmalen was al/heel Gouw-raad yn'e tiis en al één zo bij haar komst.

English literal gibberish:

But after more were/had passed than three days+nights, (the) whole district-council was confused and all one (the same) as at their arrival (coming).

Sandbach:

Then at the end of three days the whole council was in confusion, and in the same position as when they came together.

My new interpretation:

But after more than three days and nights the whole council was confused and had made no progress.

and could the vrhlapen refer maybe to the Laplanders ??

no, just like dutch "verlopen", german "verlaufen" - passed by

makes sence in the context

Edited October 27, 2015 by Jan Ott

[Passing Time]

p.001 - ANDA TÍS

p.039 - IN THA TÍS

Still a Frisian expression: "yn'e tiis" - in a/the knot, confused

source

Dutch/Frisian (literal:)

Doch na dat er meer verlopen waren als drie etmalen was al/heel Gouw-raad yn'e tiis en al één zo bij haar komst.

English literal gibberish:

But after more were/had passed than three days+nights, (the) whole district-council was confused and all one (the same) as at their arrival (coming).

Sandbach:

Then at the end of three days the whole council was in confusion, and in the same position as when they came together.

My new interpretation:

But after more than three days and nights the whole council was confused and had made no progress.

no, just like dutch "verlopen", german "verlaufen" - passed by

makes sence in the context

Agree your explanation is much better than my theory..... i defer to you JO

[The Puzzler]

Jan said: All translations assume - from the context - that GÉRT means sword.

Everywhere else in OLB, GÉRT means desire (Dutch: begeerte).

It is used in the combination MANGÉRTE = girl or young woman, as a name (the daughter of PIRE) and her followers, the GÉRTMANNA.

In the fragment, I don't think it meant sword, but something like a staff or long rod.

Hettema Oldfrisian dictionary (1832): Gerd, geerd = roede (rod)

Etymologiebank: garde = rod, stick

Gtb: garde, gaarde, gerde = rod

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please yourself of course, rod, staff...a Gar is a spear though, really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gar_(spear)&redirect=no

gêr 6, gê-r, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Ger, Speer; ne. spear (N.);

gâra 1, gâ-r-a, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Rockschoß, spitzes Ackergerät, spitzes Ackerstück; ne. coat-tail, sharp tool, narrow field; Hw.: s. gê-r; vgl. ae. gāra, ahd. gēro; Q.: U; E.: s. germ. *gaizō-, *gaizōn, *gaiza-, *gaizan, Sb., Spitze; vgl. idg. *g̑ʰei- (1), V., Sb., antreiben, bewegen, schleudern, Geschoss, Pokorny 424; L.: Hh 34a, Hh 139a

rōde 4, rōd-e, rōd, afries., st. F. (ō): nhd. Galgen, Rute; ne. gallow, rod;

Tacitus (Germania 6) describes the equipment of the Germanic warrior as follows:

Even iron is not plentiful with them, as we infer from the character of their weapons. But few use swords or long lances. They carry a spear [hasta] (framea is their name for it), with a narrow and short head, but so sharp and easy to wield that the same weapon serves, according to circumstances, for close or distant conflict. As for the horse-soldier, he is satisfied with a shield and spear; the foot-soldiers also scatter showers of missiles each man having several and hurling them to an immense distance, and being naked or lightly clad with a little cloak.

The term is also used by Eucherius of Lyon, Gregory of Tours and Isidore. By the time of Isidore (7th century), framea referred to a sword, not a spear. Since Tacitus reports that the word is natively Germanic,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period_spear

Seems a likely name for GERmans themselves.

framia 2, fromia, fra-m-ia, fro-m-ia, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. nützen; ne. be of use;

Dutch begeerte = desire; really means this: (just for interest)

beget (v.)

Old English begietan "to get by effort, find, acquire, attain, seize" (class V strong verb, past tense begeat, past participle begeaton), from be- + get (v.). Sense of "to procreate" is from c. 1200. Related to Old High German pigezzan, Gothic bigitan "to get, obtain." Related: Begot; begotten.

Get: Old English, as well as Dutch and Frisian, had the verb almost exclusively in compounds (such as begietan, "to beget;" forgietan "to forget"). Vestiges of an Old English cognate *gietan remain obliquely in modern past participle gotten and original past tense gat, also Biblical begat.

Edited October 28, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

"Do not hurry, for here lies Adela."

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela.

Don't step too forceful because here lies Adela.

I do like Sandbach's poetic...

TREAD SOFTLY, HERE LIES ADELA

hāstich 1, hā-st-ich, afries., Adj.: nhd. gewaltsam; ne. forcible;

[Ott]

a Gar is a spear though, really.

But it reads GÉRT with a T, not GAR or GER.

Hettema Oldfrisian dictionary (1832): Gerd, geerd = roede (rod)

Etymologiebank: garde = rod, stick

Gtb: garde, gaarde, gerde = rod

GERMAN would have come from GÉRT-MAN.

It also makes more sense to swing a staff around your head before striking, than a spear. Spears are thin, light and sharp, so they can be swirled over great distance.

[Ott]

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela.

Don't step too forceful because here lies Adela.

HASTICH = hastily

don't hurry ~ take some time to ponder

Edited October 28, 2015 by Jan Ott

[Ott]

I am happy with all feedback, whether I use it to change my mind or not.

Here is three I did today. I will not post everything here, to keep some surprises for the final version, but it may help to get some new people (or veterans newly) interested and perhaps (re-) join the discussion.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Jan Ott

[Ott]

Dutch begeerte = desire; really means this: (just for interest)

beget (v.)

Old English begietan ...

No.

oldsaxon geron (middledutch geren); oldhighgerman geron (middlehighgerman gern, begern; newhighgerman only begehren); oldfrisian iëria (newfrisian begear(j)e)

source

Edited October 28, 2015 by Jan Ott

[Ell]

I have suggested that that word, 'tex', might have been the result of metathesis: tex(=teks) >> kest. 'Kest' is the word used in those Old Frisian Law texts when they mention regulations.

Ik neem dit ook mee in mijn boek.

[Ell]

kest=kvast then I'd say.

kest 73, kes-t, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Küre, Beliebung, Wahl, Wahlmöglichkeit, Wertgegenstand, Forderung eines Eides, Eid, Eidesleistung; ne. choice, worthy object (N.), claim (N.) of an oath, oath (N.); ÜG.: lat. cōnstitūtio L 15, ēlēctio KE; Vw.: s. kê-r-e-, liōd-, nê-d-, ze-r-k-, -fri-ō-nd; Hw.: vgl. ae. cyst, as. kust*, ahd. kust*; Q.: S, B, R, E, H, W, Jur, L 15, KE; E.: germ. *kusti-, *kustiz, st. F. (i), Wahl, Prüfung; s. idg. *g̑eus-, V., kosten (V.) (2), genießen, schmecken, Pokorny 399; W.: nfries. kest; L.: Hh 57a, Hh 163, Rh 866b

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kvast

Danish for tassel.

A kind of bur used in dressing cloth; a teasel.

From Middle English tesel, tasil, tasel, tosel, from Old English tǣsel, tǣsl, from Proto-Germanic *taisilō, *taislō ‎(“thistle”), from Proto-Indo-European *dāy- ‎(“to separate, divide”). Cognate with Scots tasil, tassill ‎(“teasel”), German Zeisel ‎(“thistle, teasel”). Related to tease

Tassel:

In the Hebrew Bible, the Lord spoke to Moses instructing him to tell the Israelites to make tassels (modern Hebrew tzitzit) on the corners of their garments, to help them to remember all the commandments of the Lord and to keep them (Numbers 15:37-40), and as a sign of holiness. The religious Hebrew tassel, however, bears little resemblance to the decorative one which eventually became popular in Europe, especially France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tassel

This I will also include in my book.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Ell

[Ell]

kest equates to oath in the Old Frisian texts. Among these was the oath of equality taken ... 'Djt is dio aerste kest aller Fresana ende

The Fryans took the oath to Frya's constitution and this happened at Texland.

Also there is ATH (OE) that's what I think is the meaning of 'atha' as 'friends' (Athens)

This I will also include in my book.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Ell

[Ell]

The book it will be published in, both in Dutch and in an English version, I have not yet published. I am waiting upon the cover for the Dutch edition. The friend who made the cover for the English edition had a hard disk crash some weeks ago and lost her earlier work, so she will have to build up the cover again - and she is busy with other projects.

Besides, I do not place links here, because then people start accusing me of promoting my own books.

She provided me with new covers last Tuesday. This night I have added some from this thread to the Dutch version; Thursday I will do the same to the English version.

[The Puzzler]

HASTICH = hastily

don't hurry ~ take some time to ponder

I first thought it could only be hasty, but then wondered by Sandbach would have tread softly, I found it and linked it, in the Frisian dictionary in same post, forcible, forceful, that's the context he has used and I agree it sounds nice.

hasty is not wrong, but hastich meant forcible as well as rushed.

Edited October 29, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

"Tread softly" is a good translation.

I have come to appreciate Sandbach more than I did. Some of his sentences cannot be improved or even equalled.

But when I can think of a solution that is different and just as good, I tend to use that and not his, to provide the reader who knows his already a fresh look.

Who wants to compare his to mine (so far) can look here.

[Ott]

... can look here.

here is the right link