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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]


Abramelin

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re page 106 ...... My effort JO

if conflict (war) looks likely , said Fasta , then stock up your neighbourhoods ( further down this page , you say behof = stock ,

so is behod not just same word different tense , word ending ? makes sense also if you think war is imminent to stock up provisions)

inform (communicate the threat) to all your neighbours , help (back up, defend )all your neighbours , and in return they should all do the same with you.

is thina red navt god noch..... if your councels advice was not good enough , i cant offer you anything better.......their faces reddened , and their shoulders dropped ,

like translation of muge for experience(d)

thrjia thrritich ( three times 30 feet high )..flat fon boppa (either flat or open ?) on top ......an lith huske ther uppa ( a little

hut upon it ?) ...hwana man tha stara bisieth.....(for the men that study the stars )

on either side of the tower are the state houses , 3 x 100 feet long ,bred thrija sivgun fet , (3 x 7 feet broad ).... just as a matter of interest a book about the celts says that " it was by the law decreed that the house of a chief/noble should measure 37 feet ,and the lords of 30 feet , each abode becoming smaller as your station in life warranted...... i wonder if someone has read the law of thrija sivgun fet as thirty seven feet , instead of three times seven feet ? maybe that unusual bredth is a regulationary measurement ?

bred threja sivgun fet elika hach bihalva.........Broad 3 x 7 feet , and half as much in height (bihalva )

around the birch is a ring ditch in the roman (craft ) style ?... depth 21 feet , width 36 feet , and from the top of the tower you can see the shape of the jol wheel........ i wonder if there were six bridges across the ring ditch ?

re the last paragraph may just put a note that the famna were taught by the mothers how to use the krudon (herbs) for healing .

what time period are we talking about here exactly JO , there is much talk going on elsewhere about who were the first to use baked bricks in Europe , at the moment the concensus seems to be the Greeks , maybe we can beat that nation ?

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My effort JO

I appreciate the effort and I'm sure you had fun doing it, so I don't want to discourage you, but most of it is really too far fetched for me to reply to it all. But for a more literal translation that you can compare with, I would recommend the one by Hans Olav Lien ("Apol" earlier in this thread), here and here (go to "106").

"bát.sjochtig" is dutch "baat-zuchtig", literally something like "benefit-greedy"

what time period are we talking about here exactly JO

Sixth century BCE.

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I appreciate the effort and I'm sure you had fun doing it, so I don't want to discourage you, but most of it is really too far fetched for me to reply to it all. But for a more literal translation that you can compare with, I would recommend the one by Hans Olav Lien ("Apol" earlier in this thread), here and here (go to "106").

"bát.sjochtig" is dutch "baat-zuchtig", literally something like "benefit-greedy"

Sixth century BCE.

Ha Ha ..yes i do enjoy trying to translate it , even though i mostly get it wrong ,and thanks for the Hans Olav Lien translation

i have never seen that one before, and i must admit that a literal translation makes me much happier than one that is

interpreted........you would never know that from my woeful attempts however,....i dont know why the majority of us Brits

are so bad at languages.......Thank God most of the world knows how attrocious we are , and has decided to speak our

language to save our blushes.

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The continuation of Apollania Oera Linda's diary (6th C. BCE), followed by the full text of this section (translation only).

OLB109EN.jpg

OLB110EN.jpg

OLB111EN.jpg

OLB112EN.jpg

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Now I will write myself, first about my burgh, then about my experiences.

My burgh is in the northernmost part of Liudgarda. The tower has six sides, is triple thirty feet high, flat on top, and has a small observatory. On each side of the tower is a building, long three hundred, wide triple seven feet and equally high, except the roof which is curved. All of locally fired bricks. None are brought in from outside. The burgh is surrounded by a dike and then a moat, deep tripe seven, wide triple twelve feet. Looking down from the tower, one sees the shape of the wheel.

Between the buildings on the south side, a variety of native and foreign herbs grow, of which the maidens must learn all powers. On the north side are fields only. The three northerly buildings are stored with corn and other stock. Two on the south are to house and school the young maidens. The southernmost building is the burgh maiden's home. In the tower hangs the sacred fire. The walls are decorated with precious stones. On the south wall, the Tex is written, with right of it the primal teachings and left of it the laws. The remaining three walls contain other texts. At the dike near the burgh maiden­'s home are the oven and a treadmill for flour, worked by four oxen.

Outside the burgh wall, the burgh masters and defenders live. Their surrounding dike has the size of one 'stand'; not a sailor's - but a solar stand, of which twice twelve go in a natural day. On the inside of the dike, five feet below, is a platform with three hundred crossbows, covered by wood and leather. Besides the homes of the 'insiders', the dike encloses another triple twelve emergency homes for 'outsiders'. The field is both meadow and for military practice. South of the outer dike is the Liudgarda, surrounded by the great Linda Wood. Its shape is triangular, with the base on the outer south side, so it has optimal sunlight, as many exotic trees and flowers grow there, brought by the sailors. All other burghs have the same shape as ours, the one of Texland being the very largest and ours second large. The tower of Fryasburgh on Texland reaches the clouds and the rest of the burgh is in proportion to it.

Tasks on our burgh are divided so that seven young maidens attend the sacred fire in three-hour shifts. In the remaining time they do housework, learn and sleep. After seven years of watching, they are free. Then they can go among the people to ward morals and give advice. After having been maiden for three years, they can sometimes join the older maidens. The scribe must teach the maiden apprentices to read, write and calculate. The veterans must teach them justice and duty, knowledge of seeds, herbs and healing, histories, tales, songs and anything else they may need for giving advice. The burgh maiden teaches them how to apply all this when advising people.

Before a burgh maiden can be installed, she has to cross the land for a whole year, accompanied by three veteran masters and maidens. I did so too. My journey was along the Rhine, this shore upstream and on the other side off stream. The more upstream I came, the poorer the people seemed to me. Piers had been made everywhere to catch sand, which was then filtered on sheepskins, to win gold. But the girls did not wear golden crowns of it. There used to be even more, but since we lost Skeanland (with its iron), they went to the mountains to delve iron ore, which they melt into iron.

Above the Rhine, between the mountains, I have seen 'Marsata' or lake dwellers. Their houses are built on poles, for protection against wild beasts and evil people. There are wolves, bears and terrible black lions. They are also the 'Swetsar' or neighbors of the near Kreaklanders, Kelta followers and the savage Twiskers, all eager to rob and plunder. The Marsata live from fishing and hunting. The skins are prepared with birch bark and sewn by the women. The small skins are soft like maidens' felt. The burgh maiden at New Fryasburgh told us that they were good and simple people, but without that knowledge, I would have thought they were savages rather then Fryas, judging by their brutal looks. Their skins and herbs are exported by the sailors of the Rhine dwellers.

Along the other side of the Rhine it was the same, all the way to Lydasburgh. This burgh had a great lake where people also lived in pole houses. They were not Frya's folk, but black and brown men, who had served as rowers to help the naval crew come home. They had to stay there till the fleet would leave again.

Finally we arrived at Alderga. At the sou­thern head of the harbor is the Treasure­burgh, a stone building where a variety of exotic shells, horns, weapons and clothes are kept, brought by the sailors. A quarter from there is the Alderga, a great lake surrounded by richly decorated barns, houses and gardens. In the lake lay a great fleet, with flags in various colors. On Fryasday the shields were hung on board. Some shone like the sun. The shields of the witking (sea king) and his deputy-by-night had a golden edge.

A canal was dug behind the lake, going from there, along the burgh Forana, to end with a narrow mouth into the sea. For the fleet this was the way out and the Flee the way in. Both sides of the canal have beautiful houses of bright colors, with gardens that are surrounded by evergreen hedges. I saw women there wearing tunics of felt similar to writing felt. As in Staveren, the girls were decorated with golden crowns on their heads and rings around their arms and ankles.

South of Forana is Alkmarum. This is a mare or lake with an island on which the black and brown men abide, like they do at Lydasburgh. The burgh maiden of Forana told me that the burgh masters visit them daily, to teach them what true freedom is and how people ought to live gently together in order to gain blessing of the world's spirit. If any of them was interested and able to understand, he could stay until he was fully educated. That was done to elevate the foreign folks and to win allies everywhere.

I have also been in the Saxanamarks, at the burgh Mannagardaforda, but I saw more poverty there, than I met wealth here. [Possible missing fragment: I asked the burgh maiden to explain this difference.] She answered: "When a marriage candidate in the Saxanamarks comes for a girl, she asks him: Can you protect your house against the banned Twisklanders? Have you killed one yet? How many oxen have you caught and how many bear and wolf skins have you brought to the market? A result is, that the Saxon women do the agricultural work and not even one out of hundred can read or write. Another result is, that no one has a motto on his shield, but merely the garble shape of some beast he has slain. The end result is, that they have become very brave, but almost as dumb as the animals they catch and as poor as the Twisklanders they fight.

Earth and sea were made for Fryas folk. All our rivers run into the sea. Lyda's and Finda's folk will wipe out each other and then we must populate the empty lands. In exploring the seas lies our prosperity. If you want the highlanders to take part in our wealth and wisdom, I will give you some advise. Make it custom for the girls to ask their lovers, before they say yes: What have you seen from the world? What can you tell your children about foreign lands and folks? This way, the most heroic lads will come to us. They will become wiser and richer, and we will no longer need those useless types.”

The youngest of the maidens that were with me, was from the Saxanamarks. When we came back, she asked leave to go home. Later she became burgh maiden there and as a result we now have so many Saxmen among the sailors.

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Couple of things from page 28.........tojenst over tha dena marka and that juttar ? i note Apol says Jut means collect , so are the Jut-tar collectors of Tar ? as well as amber collectors ..... as just a paragraph down it says ... dana wonon wi kaper and iser bi.junka TAR , pak and suma or behof from them , or their land .

the reference to plantinga ( a colony ) with a birch fam , wonder if this name could have any connection to the Plantagenets ,or plantagena of future British Royalty from Brittany ?

Brittania that was that land thera bannalinga ( why are they called Bannalinga.....banned i understand.... but i thought the word linga meant language ??

brittania that was that land thera bannalinga , theremith hulpe hiara birchfam wei brith weron umbe hira lif to behaldana ,that for that hia navt to bak kuma ne skolde

i think this word brith , could be BERITH ( as in ba'al berith , or el-berith ) it means a covenant or pledge, so the banned person ,was under covenant (pledge ) never to return from Britain. from the wording it could be the burchfams life was the one held under covenant , and therefore to her was their life beholden , ??

have any of you noticed that on some pages there is the same word twice , i have seen (and and ), also other doubles , at first you just think its a scribal error , not concentrating and writing the same word twice , but on seing the (hark hark)repeated words , i got to wondering if , just like JO did on a couple of his translations he writes the last couple of words from one page , as the first couple of words for the next , for continuity , but this also used to be done for the reader to make sure there were no pages missing............could this be an indication that whilst hidde was making a copy just as he said , and that as he turned the wet page , in some instances he re-copied both the last , and the first duplicate words into the middle of his new copy page ..............how could that occur if de linden or Ottema and co were making it up as they went along...... it would not.......surely they could not have been devious enough to conscieve this as a ploy to make it look copied.

That us land sa rum and grat were hedon wi felo asondergana namon , thera tham saton biasten tha dene-marks wrdon juttar heten , ut havede hia tom.et navt owers ne dedon as barn-sten juta ,

that our land was so spacious and large ( is hedon the same word as heton, heten ?) we called our fellows by the undergone names.those sat by the aster , the denemarka were named Juttar .

This one could be the interesting one..............tham ther saton uppa e.landa wrdon Letne heten , thruch dam hia mest al vr leten levadon .

them there sat on the upper (islands or East.lands ?) were named Letne ( how about this being LA TENE , and maybe later Leiden)

( i note Apol translates this last part as "through them who mostly lived desolate ") but what do you think leten levadon means ?)

i think it could be livadon not levadon , and is "where we let them live ".

alle strand and skor hemar fon a dene marka alont there sand.fal ( note in India in Gujerat , where minnagara is by the Vindhya mountains there is also a town/village called Sanval......another coincidence ?) nw skelda.

http://www.indiamapp...-kantha//sanval

note:- on another page banas kantha is called bana skantha, th = old d = Skanda

all beach and shore dwellers from denmark to the sandfal, new/now Skelda (which Apol translates as Schelte ).... but if Letne relates to LaTene , then although to the Scans it probably meant "new Schelte" , but to those who write the history books,i think they called the people living there Kelts/Celts

Edited by Passing Time
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Does Fara just mean something which is not here and now , ie either along time past , or a long time in the future , or a long way away in either time or distance ?,

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my post 355 refers to OLB page 48 , not 28 sorry.

re Sand-fal and Sanval in India , if bana Skanda was the early name , then this could be another

land the banned were sent to , dont forget also the early name of Barat for India , non aspirated

BRT and Britain BRTN , and the first king supposed to have come to these islands PRTLN

Partalon remembering P,B,V are often inter-changeable, the maha- great barata BRT,

and again the Vedas and the Scanda Eddas, the Skanda purana ,

when Alexander was about to invade India , King Porus/Poros seemed to recognise him for

some reason there was some mutual respect , did Porus recognise something in his name

they call him I-SKAND-ER

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I don't think the JUTTAR collect tar as well as amber.

jāta***, jā-t-a***, afries., st. V. (2): nhd. gießen; ne. pour; Vw.: s. bi-, ūt-; Hw.: vgl. an. gjōta, ae. géotan, anfrk. gietan, as. giotan, gētan, ahd. giozan; E.: germ. *geutan, st. V., gießen; idg. *g̑ʰeud-, V., gießen, Pokorny 448; s. idg. *g̑ʰeu-, V., gießen, Pokorny 447; L.: Hh 52a

gut (n.) Old English guttas (plural) "bowels, entrails," literally "a channel," related to geotan "to pour," from Proto-Germanic *gut-, from PIE *gheu- "pour" (see found (v.2)). Related to Middle Dutch gote, Dutch goot, German Gosse "gutter, drain," Middle English gote "channel, stream." Meaning "abdomen, belly" is from late 14c. Meaning "narrow passage in a body of water" is from 1530s.

http://www.etymonlin...ex.php?term=gut

That's what I assume it's related to. Abe used to go on about "beach combing", pouring sand to extract the amber. It seems that's how you do get amber from sand, these days they dredge it mostly.

I'm not sure where Apol is getting 'collector' from, maybe from the concept of "beach-combing"... collecting things which you have sieved or poured out of the sand.

Thêra tham saton biâsten tha Dênemarka wrdon Juttar hêton, uthâvede hja tomet navt owers ne dêdon as barn-stên juta

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BANNALINGA seems to equate to "long banished" with banna being banished and linga=lenga=lang = long

Again, these are just my guesses.

Interesting that bana with one n means murderer.

Edited by The Puzzler
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BANNALINGA seems to equate to "long banished" with banna being banished and linga=lenga=lang = long

Similar words in Dutch (and English, see words in bold):

zuigeling - infant, suckling

vluchteling - refugee, 'flightling'

dopeling - child that is being baptised, 'dipling'

sterveling - mortal, 'starveling'

tweeling - twins, 'twoling'

huurling - mercenary, hireling

zwakkeling - weakling

etc.

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Couple of things from page 28.........tojenst over tha dena marka and that juttar ? i note Apol says Jut means collect , so are the Jut-tar collectors of Tar ? as well as amber collectors ..... as just a paragraph down it says ... dana wonon wi kaper and iser bi.junka TAR , pak and suma or behof from them , or their land .

the reference to plantinga ( a colony ) with a birch fam , wonder if this name could have any connection to the Plantagenets ,or plantagena of future British Royalty from Brittany ?

Brittania that was that land thera bannalinga ( why are they called Bannalinga.....banned i understand.... but i thought the word linga meant language ??

brittania that was that land thera bannalinga , theremith hulpe hiara birchfam wei brith weron umbe hira lif to behaldana ,that for that hia navt to bak kuma ne skolde

i think this word brith , could be BERITH ( as in ba'al berith , or el-berith ) it means a covenant or pledge, so the banned person ,was under covenant (pledge ) never to return from Britain. from the wording it could be the burchfams life was the one held under covenant , and therefore to her was their life beholden , ??

have any of you noticed that on some pages there is the same word twice , i have seen (and and ), also other doubles , at first you just think its a scribal error , not concentrating and writing the same word twice , but on seing the (hark hark)repeated words , i got to wondering if , just like JO did on a couple of his translations he writes the last couple of words from one page , as the first couple of words for the next , for continuity , but this also used to be done for the reader to make sure there were no pages missing............could this be an indication that whilst hidde was making a copy just as he said , and that as he turned the wet page , in some instances he re-copied both the last , and the first duplicate words into the middle of his new copy page ..............how could that occur if de linden or Ottema and co were making it up as they went along...... it would not.......surely they could not have been devious enough to conscieve this as a ploy to make it look copied.

That us land sa rum and grat were hedon wi felo asondergana namon , thera tham saton biasten tha dene-marks wrdon juttar heten , ut havede hia tom.et navt owers ne dedon as barn-sten juta ,

that our land was so spacious and large ( is hedon the same word as heton, heten ?) we called our fellows by the undergone names.those sat by the aster , the denemarka were named Juttar .

This one could be the interesting one..............tham ther saton uppa e.landa wrdon Letne heten , thruch dam hia mest al vr leten levadon .

them there sat on the upper (islands or East.lands ?) were named Letne ( how about this being LA TENE , and maybe later Leiden)

( i note Apol translates this last part as "through them who mostly lived desolate ") but what do you think leten levadon means ?)

i think it could be livadon not levadon , and is "where we let them live ".

alle strand and skor hemar fon a dene marka alont there sand.fal ( note in India in Gujerat , where minnagara is by the Vindhya mountains there is also a town/village called Sanval......another coincidence ?) nw skelda.

http://www.indiamapp...-kantha//sanval

note:- on another page banas kantha is called bana skantha, th = old d = Skanda

all beach and shore dwellers from denmark to the sandfal, new/now Skelda (which Apol translates as Schelte ).... but if Letne relates to LaTene , then although to the Scans it probably meant "new Schelte" , but to those who write the history books,i think they called the people living there Kelts/Celts

Juts as collectors seems very possible in the the light of 'jatten' (or gappen) as 'stealing' as it used in Dutch too.

See 'strandjutter'.

What were they collecting on the beach? :-) I will look up who else was active in the amber trade.

PT, you with your keen smell on oriental species: how do the 'Jats' in India connect to this?

Where they jews, and was Jesus then spotted in Jatland too?

What stays remarkable if we go along with OLB is the fact that a Jesus as a Saint Isa in Kashmir is since some years in debate, only mostly not ascribed as being born there.

If you take the possibility of some historical deplacements in observation, this one is interesting. Then Thomas or Mary as possible long life friend must have been Frisian sturar :-)

Also to be checked further.

Edited by Van Gorp
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See 'strandjutter'.

In the late seventies there was a TV series in the Netherlands, after a 1940 book, "Sil de Strandjutter", filmed on one of the "Wadden" islands, ofwhich Texel is the largest.

What stays remarkable if we go along with OLB is the fact that a Jesus as a Saint Isa in Kashmir is since some years in debate, only mostly not ascribed as being born there.

It is possible that JES-US was one of the various names of Buddha and that Isa (or whatever his name was) from Nazareth studied in Kashmir and took or got "Jesus" as name, after one of Buddha's names. There are also indications that he lived there after the crucifiction (that did not kill him as he was taken off the cross in time and cured from his wounds). There are good documentaries that argue for this and it is clear that this would take away one of the main foundations of the Christian doctrine.

Edited by Jan Ott
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Juts as collectors seems very possible in the the light of 'jatten' (or gappen) as 'stealing' as it used in Dutch too.

See 'strandjutter'.

What were they collecting on the beach? :-) I will look up who else was active in the amber trade.

that will be interesting VG

PT, you with your keen smell on oriental species: how do the 'Jats' in India connect to this?

Where they jews, and was Jesus then spotted in Jatland too?

What stays remarkable if we go along with OLB is the fact that a Jesus as a Saint Isa in Kashmir is since some years in debate, only mostly not ascribed as being born there.

If you take the possibility of some historical deplacements in observation, this one is interesting. Then Thomas or Mary as possible long life friend must have been Frisian sturar :-)

Also to be checked further.

will see what i can find out about the Jats , last time i looked into indian religions the closest connections i could find was the references to the Ajivika , who were a third religious sect in India which was prominant at the same time as Budhism , and Mahavira the founder of Jainism . ( all three founders lived around the same time. circa 550 BC ) its founder was Gosala Makhali ( which resounded with the name Gosa Makonta in the OLB ) the word ending vika , suggested a loose connection with vikings , and they were a male and female group of ascetics that went about their life naked .....and were called the 'naked ones' at one time this made me think of the scans going into battle naked, and i also contemplated the name of Alexanders men being the Macedons (thinking n = m (nn), - naked-ones )

re Jesus and the story of his friend in india being a frisian as per OLB, that was what my last paragraph was tongue in cheek hinting at in my last paragraph of post 349 , Jesus said he had come "for the Gentiles", if Gentiles is Gentes of the isles......how about if he really said " from the Gent-Isles".........What a turn-up if Jesus was Frisian Magian like his OLB friend. :whistle:

( the 3 Magi at his birth looking for the Magian Messiah ) where are they supposed to be

buried.... in Cologne .

Edited by Passing Time
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Similar words in Dutch (and English, see words in bold):

zuigeling - infant, suckling

vluchteling - refugee, 'flightling'

dopeling - child that is being baptised, 'dipling'

sterveling - mortal, 'starveling'

tweeling - twins, 'twoling'

huurling - mercenary, hireling

zwakkeling - weakling

etc.

More like this you reckon... sounds fair enough.

-ling diminutive word-forming element, early 14c., from Old English -ling a nominal suffix (not originally diminutive), from Proto-Germanic *-linga-; attested in historical Germanic languages as a simple suffix, but probably representing a fusion of two suffixes: 1. that represented by English -el (1), as in thimble, handle; and 2. -ing, suffix indicating "person or thing of a specific kind or origin;" in masculine nouns also "son of" (as in farthing, atheling, Old English horing "adulterer, fornicator"), from PIE *-(i)ko- (see -ic).

Both these suffixes had occasional diminutive force, but this was only slightly evident in Old English -ling and its equivalents in Germanic languages except Norse, where it commonly was used as a diminutive suffix, especially in words designating the young of animals (such as gæslingr "gosling"). Thus it is possible that the diminutive use that developed in Middle English is from Old Norse. http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

I will look up who else was active in the amber trade.

The "Gutones" are mentioned as collecting amber. They collected it and sold it on to the Teutons/Germans who traded it further. They must be the Juttar,however I see a connection to the Jutes also, who lived in Jutland, with the Teutons themselves inhabiting southern Jutland, it seems they would be the neighbours of the North living Jutes...

Jutland itself is a haven for amber collecting, it's also on "an estuary of Ocean", the Skagerrak.

Edited by The Puzzler
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The "Gutones" are mentioned as collecting amber. They collected it and sold it on to the Teutons/Germans who traded it further. They must be the Juttar,however I see a connection to the Jutes also, who lived in Jutland, with the Teutons themselves inhabiting southern Jutland, it seems they would be the neighbours of the North living Jutes...

Jutland itself is a haven for amber collecting, it's also on "an estuary of Ocean", the Skagerrak.

Waddell in his introduction to his translation of the British Edda has a very interesting take on the trans-migration of myths from one country ( culture ) to another , it is rather a long introduction ,but well worth the read IMO .

https://archive.org/...age/n5/mode/1up

he says the Sumerian Serpent Princess called Gunn Ivo , of the Temple E.DEN (obviously EDEN of the bible ) is Guen Ever (Queen Ever ) who later became Guinevere , in the Arthurian romances , that King Arthur ( who incidentaly British History tells never actually became crowned King of the Britons ) was Thor ... but as Her-Thor , or Heer-Thor .

That Min in Sumerian means second , or following the first , so Minerva may mean (anag. ERVA TO EVER . The 2nd queen after Eve or Ever ) note :- also in OLB history , Minerva was the second in line to Rosamund , who was Frya's first choice as new mother . followed by Minerva , and then if they both declined , third was Syrhed , ( Catherine or Kat-lip )

There is also some info in this intro re the Sumerians being the first Gut-ones , Gutians , Goths ... Juts also being a version of Goths, Gotts , and that Cat , Catti is also a version of the same name.

So Waddell seems to believe Wodin was an enemy of Heer-Thor ,Baldr was Wodins son (Nimrod ?) (also Bal or Ba'al )who warred with the Scythians of Heer-Thor , who at first were scattered , but then rallied to attain a peace , Heer-Thor took Wodins daughter Guen-Ever as his wife , and had a son ( ? Enoch , Enough , ) way back around 3200 BC , and that these other Myths have all grown up out of other cultures adaptations of the original histories of real human beings ( not Gods ) and the names and tall tales have been adapted as Mythology in the various countries to whom the Sumerians (Semitics ) later migrated.

interesting as an alternate version , food for thought .i also have a link to the actual Edda if

anyone wants to read it , it is online . Just wish that as in Sandbach's trans of OLB , Waddell had

included the Old English/or Anglo Saxon original words , beside his translation .if anyone knows of an online version of this poem in the original language , i would be grateful for a link.

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Sorry ................not happy with post........will re do

Suffice to say at moment it is Snorri that seems to think Wodin was Thors enemy, but Waddel seems to think , Wodin is just another name of Heer-Thor , but Balder was his enemy ( king Bal, Ba'al, Abel)

Edited by Passing Time
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Ca. 3000 years old intact skeleton found in Westfriesland (near Westwoud) - West-Flíland in the OLB - of a woman (20-25 y.o., 1.60 m tall) in former gravemound of which only the surrounding ditch was still visible, 30-40 cm. under surface. The chalk-rich soil had preserved the remains so well.

DSC08564.JPG

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Puzzler said in the old thread (29 April 2015)

the word hell/helle for light and clarity is not Frisian. That's what no-one seems to be getting

Back then, I didn't have the patience to find the right argument, but now while translating work, I found this:

Page 36 (Sandbach p.53):

THAT LIKT.EN ORDÉL SÉIDON THA PRESTERA.

MEN ASTE NV MÉNSTE THÀT PEST THRVCH VSA DVMHÉD KVMTH.

SKOLDE NY.HEL.LÉNJA THÀN WEL SA GOD WÉSA WILLE.

VMBE VS EWAT FON THÀT NYA LJUCHT TO LÉNANDE HWÉR VPPA HJU SA STOLTA IS.

Sandbach:

That seems very good judgment, said the priests;

but if you mean that the plague is caused by our stupidity,

then Nyhellenia will perhaps be so good

as to bestow upon us a little of that new light of which she is so proud.

My provisory translation:

"That is quite a statement," the priests said,

"but if you imply that the plague is a result of our ignorance,

then would Nyhellenia be so good

as to live up to her proud name and enlighten us?"

(wordplay will be explained in a footnote)

It is implied here that HEL can be interpreted as light.

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  • 2 weeks later...

About matriarchal societies. I quote Julie Ryder:

Did you know that in the Indigenous tribes that a group of women called Clan Mothers have complete authority? They say that the "White Men made chiefs because they would not sign a treaty with a woman".

.

Edited by Ell
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further maybe to OLB's saying that Brittania was a place where the banned , or the damned were sent.

The Vikings in Western Christendom , by C.F.Keary . M.A. F.S.A. 1891 , page 4 .

In the prose of Procopius

" There was a myth among the Gaulish fishermen touching on the mysterious island of Brittia (Prittania ) a place

which they deemed to which souls were spirited after death. the gaulish fishermen were called " ferrymen of the dead "

and on account of a strange duty they had to perform , they were exempt from payment of all normal taxation. They

would be woken in the dead of night by a short rap on the door , and a whispered demand to come to the beach . this

duty was shared by the fishermen in rotation , their boats would lay seemingly empty to any onlooker , but they would

lie well down on their waterlines , the boats pushed off in the night on a voyage which would usually take 6 days and

nights to complete , but when they arrived at the mysterious beach of the coast , they soon heard names being called

out , and voices answering one after the other , though they could see no one , shortly their vessels grew lighter on the

water , and when all the souls were landed , the fishermen returned to the habitable world , and arrived back by daybreak.

maybe Brittia , or as sometimes called Prittania , could have been Spiritania, anyway it sounds as though the Gauls

were also using Britain as a Prison Island , and these people also probably became slaves for the mines .

This is also the place where Claudian thought "Ulysses had invoked the shades of Hades "

Edited by Passing Time
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"As the two cousins could not agree, Teunis planted a red flag on the shore, and Inka a blue flag. Every man could choose which he pleased, and to their astonishment the greater part of the Finns and Magyars followed Inka, who had objected to serve the kings of Finda’s people. When they had counted the people and divided the ships accordingly, the fleet separated. We shall hear of Teunis afterwards, but nothing more of Inka."

Orellana_zps7acuvhcg.png

https://www.houseofnames.com/orellana-family-crest

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further maybe to OLB's saying that Brittania was a place where the banned , or the damned were sent.

The Vikings in Western Christendom , by C.F.Keary . M.A. F.S.A. 1891 , page 4 .

In the prose of Procopius

" There was a myth among the Gaulish fishermen touching on the mysterious island of Brittia (Prittania ) a place

which they deemed to which souls were spirited after death. the gaulish fishermen were called " ferrymen of the dead "

and on account of a strange duty they had to perform , they were exempt from payment of all normal taxation. They

would be woken in the dead of night by a short rap on the door , and a whispered demand to come to the beach . this

duty was shared by the fishermen in rotation , their boats would lay seemingly empty to any onlooker , but they would

lie well down on their waterlines , the boats pushed off in the night on a voyage which would usually take 6 days and

nights to complete , but when they arrived at the mysterious beach of the coast , they soon heard names being called

out , and voices answering one after the other , though they could see no one , shortly their vessels grew lighter on the

water , and when all the souls were landed , the fishermen returned to the habitable world , and arrived back by daybreak.

maybe Brittia , or as sometimes called Prittania , could have been Spiritania, anyway it sounds as though the Gauls

were also using Britain as a Prison Island , and these people also probably became slaves for the mines .

This is also the place where Claudian thought "Ulysses had invoked the shades of Hades "

Great PT!

Makes me think of the out-casts (cast out) of the continent that were taken for transport beneath the deck of the ship, and put (or more probably thrown into the water at the shore).

Hence the making lighter of the ship and return by daybreak again at the the other side of the channel.

Brittene as cast-offs, ripped out from the continent (see also geographically Britain seperated from Europe).

A breach in the bridge. Breeches, by the way, form a bridge. And a breach in the land-bridge forms also a bridge of the giant waters.

One thing for sure, were is a breach there is bridge and vise versa.

How controversely the word breach gives a bridge at the same time, depending what you want to see is breached or bridged.

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further maybe to OLB's saying that Brittania was a place where the banned , or the damned were sent.

The Vikings in Western Christendom , by C.F.Keary . M.A. F.S.A. 1891 , page 4 .

In the prose of Procopius

" There was a myth among the Gaulish fishermen touching on the mysterious island of Brittia (Prittania ) a place

which they deemed to which souls were spirited after death. the gaulish fishermen were called " ferrymen of the dead "

and on account of a strange duty they had to perform , they were exempt from payment of all normal taxation. They

would be woken in the dead of night by a short rap on the door , and a whispered demand to come to the beach . this

duty was shared by the fishermen in rotation , their boats would lay seemingly empty to any onlooker , but they would

lie well down on their waterlines , the boats pushed off in the night on a voyage which would usually take 6 days and

nights to complete , but when they arrived at the mysterious beach of the coast , they soon heard names being called

out , and voices answering one after the other , though they could see no one , shortly their vessels grew lighter on the

water , and when all the souls were landed , the fishermen returned to the habitable world , and arrived back by daybreak.

maybe Brittia , or as sometimes called Prittania , could have been Spiritania, anyway it sounds as though the Gauls

were also using Britain as a Prison Island , and these people also probably became slaves for the mines .

This is also the place where Claudian thought "Ulysses had invoked the shades of Hades "

I just wanted to mention that there is a possible alternative location for this island of the dead:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179840&st=705

Add to that that according to a couple of Roman historians, the Druids claimed that there people (Gauls) came from 'the coastal regions beyond the Rhine', and had fled from the numerous floods', hey could have taken this legend about the "White Island of the Dead" with them and into northern France.

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Thanks for that Abe... Great to hear from you again.........you could be right that the isle of the dead was further north , as in the text it said that the journey they were going on usually took six days and nights , but on this duty it only took them a night ( ie. they left in the dead of night , and were back by daybreak.

maybe they were supposed to take the banned to the island you mention , but found that they could get more money by deviating from the old traditional prison island ( Iceland ? ) and selling them as slaves to the mines in Cornwall

i have no idea how long a journey would take in the ships of the time from Gaul to Cornwall , or much further North.. Any Idea how far they could expect to get , in 3 days and nights ( bearing in mind the retn journey ) Got Any Idea ?

Edited by Passing Time
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