Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

[zxc]

It mentions Troy a few times. There is also a reference to Lydia, but Sandbach glosses this as Libya and assumes it refers to North Africa, rather than the historical Lydia in Anatolia, presumably because of the similarity between between the names Lydia and Lyda.

I missed the reference to Lydia, I need to read more seriously, so far I have just scanned it quickly.

When I first read of Frya, Lyda aand Finda I had a theory that here we had Freya, Leda and Diana but I don't think that really holds up to examination.

I currently think every name in the OL is based on someone prominent in mythology, so looking for who and where they mean.

[Tony S.]

I missed the reference to Lydia, I need to read more seriously, so far I have just scanned it quickly.

When I first read of Frya, Lyda aand Finda I had a theory that here we had Freya, Leda and Diana but I don't think that really holds up to examination.

I currently think every name in the OL is based on someone prominent in mythology, so looking for who and where they mean.

Frya is certainly Freya, and also Frigg, since these two Norse goddesses were originally one.

[zxc]

Frya is certainly Freya, and also Frigg, since these two Norse goddesses were originally one.

I think Freya and Frya are one. Germanic people didn't all have Frigga though did they.

The origins of todays Frisians would be primarily Germanic rather than Norse?

Edit-I think Frigga and Freya aren't always thought to be the same in Germanic myth.

Edited December 25, 2015 by zxc

[Tony S.]

I think Freya and Frya are one. Germanic people didn't all have Frigga though did they.

The origins of todays Frisians would be primarily Germanic rather than Norse?

The Anglo-Saxons had Frigg, or Fricca. Also bear in mind that Freya is simply a title, meaning Lady.

The Norse are Germanic, specifically, North Germanic. The Frisians are North Sea Germanic, or Ingaevone, along with the English and other groups who dwelt around the North Sea coasts and shared a common culture. As such they fall between the North Germanic groups of Scandinavia and the other West Germanic groups (among whom they are classified by linguists) in the continental interior.

[zxc]

The Anglo-Saxons had Frigg, or Fricca. Also bear in mind that Freya is simply a title, meaning Lady.

The Norse are Germanic, specifically, North Germanic. The Frisians are North Sea Germanic, or Ingaevone, along with the English and other groups who dwelt around the North Sea coasts and shared a common culture. As such they fall between the North Germanic groups of Scandinavia and the other West Germanic groups (among whom they are classified by linguists) in the continental interior.

Germanic and Norse mythology has some differences regardless of the common origin. Frigga is a seperate entity to the Germanic peoples whereas there's some sort of shared existence between Frigga and Freya in the Norse? Perhaps I'm wrong.

Freya may be a title, but there was a goddess called Freya who was The Lady.

[Tony S.]

Germanic and Norse mythology has some differences regardless of the common origin. Frigga is a seperate entity to the Germanic peoples whereas there's some sort of shared existence between Frigga and Freya in the Norse? Perhaps I'm wrong.

Freya may be a title, but there was a goddess called Freya who was The Lady.

It's the other way round. Frigg/Frigga/Fricca is a single goddess in the earlier Anglo-Saxon (and presumably Germanic, though continental sources are scant) mythology, but by the time Norse mythology came to be wriiten down, much later, from the 12th century onwards, she had become two goddess, one of whom was only ever referred to by a title, rather than a name. And as if to underscore the point, whereas Frigg was married to Odin, Freya was married to a shadowy character named Od.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Tony S.

[zxc]

Freya is a Norse goddess of love and fertility and her husband Od Odr may be Odin but those theories aren't mainstream are they?

Freya was known and revered by the Norse, it's true that there may have been confusion from a common source but can we say that for sure?

To be honest this clouds rather than clears the issue at hand, unless, you're suggesting the possibility that Finda and Frya are one and the same just like Frigga and Freya. Now I like that thinking, but, does it hold up?

Is Finda Frigga haha?

Edited December 25, 2015 by zxc

[Tony S.]

Freya is a Norse goddess of love and fertility and her husband Od Odr may be Odin but those theories aren't mainstream are they?

Freya was known and revered by the Norse, it's true that there may have been confusion from a common source but can we say that for sure?

To be honest this clouds rather than clears the issue at hand, unless, you're suggesting the possibility that Finda and Frya are one and the same just like Frigga and Freya. Now I like that thinking, but, does it hold up?

Is Finda Frigga haha?

The common origin theory of Freya and Frigg is nothing new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg_and_Freyja_origin_hypothesis

This is not to say, however, that Finda is the same. Their names are quite different. In fact, Finda is the eponymous ancestress of the Finns in the OLB, so her name reflects this. She is definitely not the same individual as Frya, who is the eponymous ancestress of the Frisians.

[zxc]

The common origin theory of Freya and Frigg is nothing new.

https://en.wikipedia...igin_hypothesis

This is not to say, however, that Finda is the same. Their names are quite different. In fact, Finda is the eponymous ancestress of the Finns in the OLB, so her name reflects this. She is definitely not the same individual as Frya, who is the eponymous ancestress of the Frisians.

It's nothing new but it's not the only way of looking at it either.

If there is a match between Freya and Frya, and I think there is, then there would probably be a close match for the other two ladies Finda and Lyda. Frigga and Finda are possible matches, if we were to consider this as a possibility then Lyda would be Lofn? Haha.

Frya=Freya=Wisdom

Finda=Frigga=Fertility

Lyda=Lofn=Sex

Okay that'd need some work but if we accept that the the Frisians were the first European civilisation why wouldn't all the Germanic and Norse people have taken the Frisian gods. Or the other possibility, the OL is not ancient, then why wouldn't the authors have copied several Norse goddesses rather than just one.

[Tony S.]

It's nothing new but it's not the only way of looking at it either.

If there is a match between Freya and Frya, and I think there is, then there would probably be a close match for the other two ladies Finda and Lyda. Frigga and Finda are possible matches, if we were to consider this as a possibility then Lyda would be Lofn? Haha.

Frya=Freya=Wisdom

Finda=Frigga=Fertility

Lyda=Lofn=Sex

Okay that'd need some work but if we accept that the the Frisians were the first European civilisation why wouldn't all the Germanic and Norse people have taken the Frisian gods. Or the other possibility, the OL is not ancient, then why wouldn't the authors have copied several Norse goddesses rather than just one.

Well, it's certainly a hypothesis. Lofn means "love", as indeed, do the names Freya and Frigg.

[The Puzzler]

If Frya is Freya, who is Lyda? I don't think Leda is a good fit.

Lyda may be lost in time and have no record of her existence in myth due her people not caring about her at all.

Poor Lyda! She turned grey by her mad behaviour, and at last she died heart-broken by the wickedness of her children. Foolish children! They accused each other of their mother’s death. They howled and fought like wolves, and while they did this the birds devoured the corpse. Who can refrain from tears at such a recital?

Finda also...

Unfortunate Finda! She died in the bloom of her age, and the mode of her death is unknown.

Hypocritical children! Her corpse was buried under a costly stone, pompous inscriptions were written on it, and loud lamentations were heard at it, but in private not a tear was shed.

Despicable people! The laws that Finda established were written on golden tables, but the object for which they were made was never attained. The good laws were abolished, and selfishness instituted bad ones in their place. O Finda! then the earth overflowed with blood, and your children were mown down like grass. Yes, Finda! those were the fruits of your vanity. Look down from your watch-star and weep.

However, Finda seems to have existed for some of the Hindus, before she was stamped out by the priests (who came from another country). Some remnant of her may be possible to find but I haven't yet, I don't think she is Ganga.

Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries there are people who meet together secretly. They believe that they are pure children of Finda, and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains, whence she went with her children to the lowlands. Some of them believe that she, with her children, floated down upon the foam of the Ganges, and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges. But the priests, who came from another country, traced out these people and had them burnt, so that they do not dare to declare openly their creed.

[zxc]

Well, it's certainly a hypothesis. Lofn means "love", as indeed, do the names Freya and Frigg.

Yes, it does work.

Well, thus far haha.

[Tony S.]

Yes, it does work.

Well, thus far haha.

Other Germanic/Norse gods are mentioned in the OLB too. Wodin, for example, is obviously Odin (Woden in English). Also Thyr, who seems to be the common origin of both Thor and Tyr (Thunor and Tiw in English).

[zxc]

Lyda may be lost in time and have no record of her existence in myth due her people not caring about her at all.

Poor Lyda! She turned grey by her mad behaviour, and at last she died heart-broken by the wickedness of her children. Foolish children! They accused each other of their mother’s death. They howled and fought like wolves, and while they did this the birds devoured the corpse. Who can refrain from tears at such a recital?

Finda also...

Unfortunate Finda! She died in the bloom of her age, and the mode of her death is unknown.

Hypocritical children! Her corpse was buried under a costly stone, pompous inscriptions were written on it, and loud lamentations were heard at it, but in private not a tear was shed.

Despicable people! The laws that Finda established were written on golden tables, but the object for which they were made was never attained. The good laws were abolished, and selfishness instituted bad ones in their place. O Finda! then the earth overflowed with blood, and your children were mown down like grass. Yes, Finda! those were the fruits of your vanity. Look down from your watch-star and weep.

However, Finda seems to have existed for some of the Hindus, before she was stamped out by the priests (who came from another country). Some remnant of her may be possible to find but I haven't yet, I don't think she is Ganga.

Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries there are people who meet together secretly. They believe that they are pure children of Finda, and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains, whence she went with her children to the lowlands. Some of them believe that she, with her children, floated down upon the foam of the Ganges, and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges. But the priests, who came from another country, traced out these people and had them burnt, so that they do not dare to declare openly their creed.

In some ways it would be quite likely that gods and goddesses would be forgotten or altered beyond recognition by the passing of time, especially in a forgotten history such as the OL. However, so many things do instantly leap at one as matches for other mythology.

What do you think of the Lyda-Lofn, Finda-Frigga, Frya-Freya match? They are all the heroines of a genesis story of three people and they all have a love, sex, femininity sort of connection in the Norse mythos. Almost like a holy trinity.

Edited December 25, 2015 by zxc

[Tony S.]

Interesting...

"Lindow says that, along with many other goddess, some scholars theorize that Lofn may simply be another name for the goddess Frigg."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lofn#Theories

[The Puzzler]

In some ways it would be quite likely that gods and goddesses would be forgotten or altered beyond recognition by the passing of time, especially in a forgotten history such as the OL. However, so many things do instantly leap at one as matches for other mythology.

What do you think of the Lyda-Lofn, Finda-Frigga, Frya-Freya match? They are all the heroines of a genesis story of three people and they all have a love, sex, femininity sort of connection in the Norse mythos. Almost like a holy trinity.

Clever but I don't think I buy it.

[zxc]

Clever but I don't think I buy it.

It is neat though. Worth playing with further is it not?

Interesting...

"Lindow says that, along with many other goddess, some scholars theorize that Lofn may simply be another name for the goddess Frigg."

https://en.wikipedia...i/Lofn#Theories

Yes the three goddesses fit very well together.

Edited December 25, 2015 by zxc

[Tony S.]

It is neat though. Worth playing with further.

Yes. A problem with it, however, is that Frya should be equated with Frigg, the chief goddess. This entails equating Finda with Freya, which doesn't seem to work, since Freya is clearly, also, Frya.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Tony S.

[The Puzzler]

Yes. A problem with it, however, is that Frya should be equated with Frigg, the chief goddess. This entails equating Finda with Freya, which doesn't seem to work, since Freya is clearly, also, Frya.

Freyja, which I assume you mean by Freya is not Frya imo. Frya is Frigg though as you said first. Frigg/Frija - also note FRYA in Avestan - as dear, beloved - which goes to free etymologically is Frya as also the day Friday is mentioned, which seems apparent with Fryas feast day.

The theonyms Frigg (Old Norse) and Frija (Old High German) are cognate forms—linguistic siblings of the same origin—that descend from a substantivized feminine of Proto-Germanic *frijaz (via Holtzmann's law). *frijaz descends from the same source (Proto-Indo-European) as the feminine Sanskrit noun priyā and the feminine Avestan noun fryā (both meaning "own, dear, beloved").^[1] In the modern period, an -a suffix is sometimes applied to denote femininity, resulting in the form Frigga.^[2] This spelling also serves the purpose of distancing the goddess from the English word frig.^[3]

The connection with and possible earlier identification of the goddess Freyja with Frigg in the Proto-Germanic period (Frigg and Freyja origin hypothesis) is a matter of scholarly debate.

The English weekday name Friday comes from Old English "Frīge's Day" and is cognate with Old High German frîatac.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg

Freyja is not Frigg or Frya, so technically imo I think Finda can be Freyja but I don't think she is, but technically she's not Frigg or Frya - if you accept that Frigg and Freyja are not the same Goddess (see origin hypothesis) - still in debate.

Edited December 25, 2015 by The Puzzler

[zxc]

Yes. A problem with it, however, is that Frya should be equated with Frigg, the chief goddess. This entails equating Finda with Freya, which doesn't seem to work, since Freya is clearly, also, Frya.

I'm not sure if that is the way to view it. Let us say that the OL genesis ladies are the original versions of the Germanic goddesses we've been discussing, then it is they who have copied and distorted Frya, Lyda and Finda. The ladies who are, some sort of holy trinity of the ancient Frisian peoples.

Or, the OL is untrue, could this be some sort of parable concerning the holy trinity and using the Norse goddesses as a tool of instruction.

If Freya is Frya then it is likely that there is some Norse connection to the two other ladies I think. Perhaps not the one I suggest but surely a connection is possible and even probable.

[Tony S.]

Freyja, which I assume you mean by Freya is not Frya imo. Frya is Frigg though as you said first. Frigg/Frija - also note FRYA in Avestan - as dear, beloved - which goes to free etymologically is Frya as also the day Friday is mentioned, which seems apparent with Fryas feast day.

The theonyms Frigg (Old Norse) and Frija (Old High German) are cognate forms—linguistic siblings of the same origin—that descend from a substantivized feminine of Proto-Germanic *frijaz (via Holtzmann's law). *frijaz descends from the same source (Proto-Indo-European) as the feminine Sanskrit noun priyā and the feminine Avestan noun fryā (both meaning "own, dear, beloved").^[1] In the modern period, an -a suffix is sometimes applied to denote femininity, resulting in the form Frigga.^[2] This spelling also serves the purpose of distancing the goddess from the English word frig.^[3]

The connection with and possible earlier identification of the goddess Freyja with Frigg in the Proto-Germanic period (Frigg and Freyja origin hypothesis) is a matter of scholarly debate.

The English weekday name Friday comes from Old English "Frīge's Day" and is cognate with Old High German frîatac.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg

Freyja is not Frigg or Frya, so technically imo I think Finda can be Freyja but I don't think she is, but technically she's not Frigg or Frya - if you accept that Frigg and Freyja are not the same Goddess (see origin hypothesis) - still in debate.

Yes, and there are many spellings, of course, just to add an extra layer of confusion. Personally, I think the Frigg/Freyja hypothesis is pretty sound, and that they were originally the same goddess. If this were not the case, we have to explain why Anglo-Saxon mythology, for instance, only has one such goddess.

[Tony S.]

I'm not sure if that is the way to view it. Let us say that the OL genesis ladies are the original versions of the Germanic goddesses we've been discussing, then it is they who have copied and distorted Frya, Lyda and Finda. The ladies who are, some sort of holy trinity of the ancient Frisian peoples.

Or, the OL is untrue, could this be some sort of parable concerning the holy trinity and using the Norse goddesses as a tool of instruction.

If Freya is Frya then it is likely that there is some Norse connection to the two other ladies I think. Perhaps not the one I suggest but surely a connection is possible and even probable.

We should also bear in mind that triple goddesses existed in many different Pagan mythologies.

[zxc]

Sahrahkka,. Juksahkka and Uksahkka, three old Finnish goddesses who are, sort of, one and the same. An older holy trinity if you like.

Three is common in old mythology.

'We should also bear in mind that triple goddesses existed in many different Pagan mythologies.', That's my whole point Tony.

These OL ladies begin the tale, almost, and they are central figures. They're introduced together as the, if I'm not mistaken, Mothers of all peoples. So they have the same purpose even if only one is the Mother of the Frisian people.

Edited December 25, 2015 by zxc

[Tony S.]

Sahrahkka,. Juksahkka and Uksahkka, three old Finnish goddesses who are, sort of, one and the same. An older holy trinity if you like.

Three is common in old mythology.

'We should also bear in mind that triple goddesses existed in many different Pagan mythologies.', That's my whole point Tony.

These OL ladies begin the tale, almost, and they are central figures. They're introduced together as the, if I'm not mistaken, Mothers of all peoples. So they have the same purpose even if only one is the Mother of the Frisian people.

Yes, and to go back to an earlier question of yours, this is why there has to be three of them, and not more.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Tony S.

[zxc]

Yes, and to go back to an earlier question of yours, this is why there has to be three of them, and not more.

There are three goddesses and three races, a goddess for each race. It does seem to fit, too early for me to insist upon it but it's worth pursuing I think.

I think the holy trinity idea predates Christianity, though I might get into trouble saying that, further, I think such trinities were common in many peoples beliefs.

I suppose I'm just trying to begin at the beginning, not always the best way, and here we have the three races and the three ladies which is why I'm asking: who were the races and so on.