Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

[Passing Time]

To my mind it seems that there have been many - not just one - cataclysms in Europe of the past. Most people know of the Minoan eruption and fate of Pompeii. The Estonian craters seem to belong to this category also, as do the Tunguska and more recent Chelyabinsk events. As many others have noted here, people sometimes use same words for both natural and man-made causes. For example, it's not uncommon to read headlines about 'flooding' immigrants, 'storming' immigrants or Europe being 'on fire'. In Boxström saga the term Ragnarök is applied to three separate causes: cosmological, geological end of last ice-age and finally a man-made genocide. Just as much of the ancient iconography and legends seems to stem from biochemical sources, so does there seem to be a constant

.

True.... we have discussed a flood possibly being a flood of invaders , you dont often hear of a man made raising and lowering of mountains though , but you are right , many other events could have been responsible.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Passing Time

[Ell]

Over de Linden manuscript has not happened at all from the Finnish point of view, it could possibly be very valuable if it indeed spoke about Finnish peoples.

It does and it is.

some Norse sources use term Finn to refer instead to Lapps of the Lapland

Interesting. I will add this to my e-book about Black Pete.

in medieval sources 'castle of Finland' was Somelinde ie. Suomenlinna.

This certainly opens the possibility that the name Over de Linden refers not to a tree, but to a 'castle'. (Or both: the 'castle' that is a 'tree'.) This is huge.

Claudius Ptolemy in his Geography from around 150 AD mentions Finns (Finni) and likely also Estonians (Ossi) and Carelians (Careotae) in Baltic and Eastern European context

Tacitus in his Germania from around 98 AD mentions both Finns (Fennii) and Estonians (Aestii)

I hope do do something with this eventually.

Finnish researcher Pasi Ockenström puts Fennii of Tacitus near Pripyat river of Belarus and notes that archeological evidence from modern-day Finland doesn't fit exactly the description of the Fennii.

Quite.

I have attached a map of Northern Europe

Such maps have no relevance.

I do not know with certainty if the manuscript is authentic (as opposed to forgery) or if it is accurate (as opposed to unaccurate), though same problem exists regarding to many other old sources of information.

It is authentic. The problem is not so much its accurateness, but the comprehension of its interpreters.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Ell

[Ell]

"Snorri

states in

Gylfaginning

that Glaðsheimr is a meeting hall containing thirteen high seats

where the male Æsir hold council, located in

Ið

avöllr

in Asgard, near the hall of

V

ingólf

where the Ásynjur goddesses gathered."

Thirteen seats - as opposed to twelve seats - may be a reference to the twelve Asegeir plus Forseti the chief law giver. Same number applies also in Finnish sources, whether it's the Boxström's aser ruler and his twelve sons, or general Kaleva and his twelve sons, as known from Kristfrid Ganander's records and the Anglo-Saxon Widsith (line 20).

This composition of twelve plus one is well known from Antiquity. I wrote about it in my book about Friso's giant ship. For example Jesus and his twelve disciples.

But you provide some examples - not the Asegeir and Forseti - that I did not know about and will add to that e-book.

Twelve plus one imitates the council of the gods.

[FromFinland]

Such maps have no relevance.

The map was meant partially to relate to this note by zxc:

I know people move about and that the old Finns may have been elsewhere to the modern Finns, nevertheless, the map on the site I linked to above seems to show that at the height of their (empire)? the borders stopped at Denmark and this is of course short of Finland.

From Finnish and Nordic point of view it is the contact between the Finns and Frisians that raises eyebrows in Oera Linda book, as everybody knows that there have been for many centuries Germanic and Scandinavian nations in between, and are still of today. My point was to highlight the later Iron Age Finnish outreach in the Western Scandinavia, from which it isn't anymore that far to the Frisian areas. If such things were reality in Iron Age, surely the more earlier accounts told of in the Oera Linda book could be precursors to that. (That is, they would make a recurring pattern.)

Of course, we the selected few ( ) here in this forum have read our sources of Caesar, Tacitus, Monmouth, Over de Linden, Bock, Ganander and Norse sagas. Still, most of those sources are not known deeply in modern Nordic lands either by academics or history lovers amongst the general population. And based on the reader listing at the bottom left corner of this forum I suspect we have quite a few "lurkers" here who take interest, even though they do not contribute in writing as such. That's also why I took to represent information in a visual form, for some people (like me) conceive information that way more easily than in written form.

This certainly opens the possibility that the name Over de Linden refers not to a tree, but to a 'castle'. (Or both: the 'castle' that is a 'tree'.) This is huge.

And I shall again quote mr. Bock from 1996 (page 67), my translation:

"

Castles and lines

[

linnat ja linjat

]

The crown of Seppo Ilmarinen is a crown of a fir tree, a 'fir's crown' that is. The leaf of a palm tree and twig of a fir are similar in shape. In both grow spikes, which symbolise "lines". In tropical times symbol of a king was a palm tree leaf, and a fir twig in the arctic period. [...] Castle comes from the word line. There were lines of different types [...] For this Seppo's offering system there were hill forts [

linnavuoria

], on top of which buildings were often erected. Seppo had a possibility to leave [Aesir province of] Uudenmaa by going from castle to castle. As not all people were allowed to come to Uudenmaa, for that reason for example Kyrö castle [

Olavinlinna

] was situated outside the Uudenmaa [...] Also Maija Ilmatar [queen's title] could leave Uudenmaa by going from castle to castle. A line leads to a castle"

Same book also goes on to highlight the meaning of the family trees (page 38) and includes a variant on the Norse story of Ask and Embla.

From Väinämöinen's (i.e. Odin's) moral code on a good living we can find the following detail:

"

Sitä kuusta kuuleminen

, = Listen to that fir tree

Jonka juuressa asunto.

" = at the base of which lies the house. (

Kanteletar, first book, song 90.

)

Likely this refers to Finnish folk practice of planting a tree at the exact spot, where one saw an elf-spirit while dreaming as a part of a ritual to check if a plot of land was suitable for building work. This clearly pre-Christian ritual is known to be practiced in the later Christian times, as it is represented in Elina and Maija Ranta's book Haltijoitten mailla, maahisten majoilla (WSOY 1996).

Edited December 30, 2015 by FromFinland

[Abramelin]

Your logic is flawed.

OLB has THJUD for people/ folk.

TWISK is another word, meaning between, like english (be)twixt, saterland frisian twiske.

Some examples:

TWISK ANNEN GRÉVET.MAN AND THA MÉNTE

TWISK THÀT BERCHTA EN BURCH BVWA

VPPA GRVND TWISK THA SÛDLIKA HÛSA

Nowhere it is suggested that TWISKLAND is THJUD.S.LAND.

Thy could roughly refer to the same area, and they could be related by association, but it proves nothing.

My logic is not flawed, and I already said that the OLB uses a same word in the text, TWISK, meaning 'in between'.

But let me make an analogy:

England comes from AnglesLand, land of the Angles. Nowadays it's called England. Suppose I never heard of that country or its name. Being Dutch, I might think its meaning is something like Eng Land, or in English, Narrow Land (and also Creepy Land, lol). I could argue that the British Island is narrowly shaped, and hence my etymology must be right. But it's not: it's wrong and based on folk etymology, and this socalled etymology is younger than the original etymology (Angles Land).

This is the right etymology for Twiskland: Þeodscland/Þeodiscland/Theodiscland >> Twiskland

And it came into being in the 12th century AD. Norway, Sweden and Denmark still use a very similar name for Germany.

.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

The captains (skiprun) are mentioned earlier.

There is certainly much of value in the OLB. For example, its date for the destruction of Atland, 2194 BC, is now known to be very close to the previous appearance of Comet Hale-Bopp, a fact unknown until the 1990s.

The OLB's description of Atland, or Atlantis, corresponds very closely to the submerged land in the North Sea called Doggerland by archaeologists.

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Doggerland

Sorry to tell you but Doggerland can never be the Atland from the OLB. It submerged around 6100 BCE and with Dogger Island maybe hanging on for a couple of centuries more.

In short: it was long gone before 2194 BCE.

And the OLB literally tells us that Atland was the homeland of the Finda, and that it was too far away to cause the Fryans on the mainland of Europe any headaches. If the Fryans were the great sailors as we are to believe, than Doggerland was most certainly not "far away", not even Dogger Island.

Btw, you might want to read a 50+ pages long thread here about Doggerland. It will give you lots more info than that Wiki page.

EDIT: here it is:

http://www.unexplain...c=179840&st=840

.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Abramelin

[Ott]

This is the right etymology for Twiskland: Þeodscland/Þeodiscland/Theodiscland >> Twiskland

I don't agree. They are different words.

twisk - twisch - zwisch(en) - tussch(en)

thiudisk - duutsc, dútsk - duitsch, tsjutsk

BTW so called 'folk etymology' may very well be just as old as what you call 'original' etymology.

In other words, our ancient ancestors may already have played with ambiguity and associative naming.

I think the alleged god Tuisco was made up to provide for the people who identified with living in 'Tuiscland'.

The Scandinavian version Tyskland may have come from 'twisk', while Deutsch and Dutch will come from thjud.

[Ott]

That's also why I took to represent information in a visual form, for some people (like me) conceive information that way more easily than in written form.

I do too and I don't agree with Ell that it was irrelevant.

Your posts are great and refreshing, FF.

(I got interested in Bock Saga even before I learned about the OLB.)

For now I have little to add to it.

Perhaps this: that it is interesting that many Finns, specially on the south and westcoast still speak a sort of old swedish and that Finland is one of the places with the highest relative number of blue eyed people (I have heard).

Edited December 30, 2015 by Othar

[Ell]

And I shall again quote mr. Bock from 1996 (page 67), my translation:

"

Castles and lines

[

linnat ja linjat

]

The crown of Seppo Ilmarinen is a crown of a fir tree, a 'fir's crown' that is. The leaf of a palm tree and twig of a fir are similar in shape. In both grow spikes, which symbolise "lines". In tropical times symbol of a king was a palm tree leaf, and a fir twig in the arctic period. [...] Castle comes from the word line. There were lines of different types [...] For this Seppo's offering system there were hill forts [

linnavuoria

], on top of which buildings were often erected. Seppo had a possibility to leave [Aesir province of] Uudenmaa by going from castle to castle. As not all people were allowed to come to Uudenmaa, for that reason for example Kyrö castle [

Olavinlinna

] was situated outside the Uudenmaa [...] Also Maija Ilmatar [queen's title] could leave Uudenmaa by going from castle to castle. A line leads to a castle"

Thank you for supplying a supportive argument.

Considering that eden in Semitic has the meaning of delight or luxury, Linden might have the meaning of 'Castle of Delight / Luxury'. On the other hand it might also mean 'Castle of Noise / Din'.

Jonka juuressa asunto.

" = at the base of which lies the house. (

Kanteletar, first book, song 90.

)

Might this also be translated as "

at the top of which lies the house"?

Edited December 31, 2015 by Ell

[FromFinland]

Might this also be translated as "at the top of which lies the house"?

In this case, no - the tree is next to the house. This is confirmed by the Finnish folk belief I mentioned in the previous post, again my translation (Ranta 1996, p. 90-91):

"

If you got a permission from the land owner for building work, do not raise your house at the exact point where the elf-spirit stood in your dream, but plant there a tree instead. If it happens that you'll die before making a testament, your heirs will find with the help of the tree

what was your wish

. They must cast a ballot to have one person, who goes to sleep under the tree. The

elf-spirit of the

plot of land will come to the sleeping persons dream and tells, how you would have wanted the heirs to act on the inheritance.

"

The Boxström saga details the heathen belief in elf-spirits and they are detailed as beneficial, as in house-keepers taking care of the household animals and so on (Bock 1996, p. 57). In this regard it parallels the Finnish folk customs still practised in the 19th century countryside.

From the Oera Linda book I read:

"

23.

THIS IS INSCRIBED ON THE WARABURGT BY THE ALDEGAMUDE.

[...]

This people have not even a name; but we call them Finns, because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody, they are so formal that we are inferior to them in that respect. But still they are not to be envied, because they are slaves to their priests, and still more to their creeds.

They believe that

evil spirits abound everywhere, and enter into men and beasts

, but of Wr-alda’s spirit they know nothing.

[...]

43. THIS WRITING HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME ABOUT NORTHLAND AND SCHOONLAND

[...]

Moreover, they believe in

bad spirits, witches, sorcerers, dwarfs, and elves, as if they descended from the Finns.

"

We Finns surely were known as sorcerers by other Europeans and for selling wind for mariners still in the historical times: "In the north live lots of wizards, sorcerers and witches. Finnish wizards are able to sell wind" (Olaus Magnus 1555). Finns were likewise seen as sorcerers by pagan Scandinavians, as seen here ("might and magic followed Norr and his men"), here (chapters 16. and 17.) and here.

Edited January 1, 2016 by FromFinland

[Ell]

From the Oera Linda book I read:

"

23.

THIS IS INSCRIBED ON THE WARABURGT BY THE ALDEGAMUDE.

[...]

This people have not even a name; but we call them Finns, because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody, they are so formal that we are inferior to them in that respect.

Interesting. So the name Finn is associated with formality? This does not concur with my own conclusion. I will research that association.

Well, after a little bit of research I now surmise that Finn is related to fine as in Dutch verfijnd (refined, sophisticated).

To which I add that no hypothetical nineteenth century forger could have known about nor conceived of this etymology.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Ell

[The Puzzler]

Gosh, so much going on here I hardly know where to start...

I take a few days out and Abes back thrashing out the 'people' thing once more, Van Gorp has popped in, Othar is being nice to Tony, or ignoring him, one of the two... PT is still musing away, nice thoughts as usual, Ell, always collecting for the e-books and how about this, a Christmas present for me, someone From Finland is here interested in discussing Finnish stuff, cool.

Happy New Year everyone!

[Apol]

In some ways it would be quite likely that gods and goddesses would be forgotten or altered beyond recognition by the passing of time, especially in a forgotten history such as the OL. However, so many things do instantly leap at one as matches for other mythology.

What do you think of the Lyda-Lofn, Finda-Frigga, Frya-Freya match? They are all the heroines of a genesis story of three people and they all have a love, sex, femininity sort of connection in the Norse mythos. Almost like a holy trinity.

Se my webpage http://oeralindabook.com/freyja/

Freyja is often confused with the Norse Frigg or Frigida, Odin’s wife. It is because she was married to Od, Odin’s double.

[Ott]

Looks like we're having a reunion :-) Welcome back Apol!

Yes, Puzzler, I implicitly welcomed (back) Tony too.

Fatherhood has matured me, I guess.

Good new year to you all!

[Ott]

TIN.LÁNA (and spelling varieties) was translated by Ottema (1872/1876) as "tinlanden" (tinlands) and SULVER.LÔNA as "zilverlanden" (silver lands). Jensma (2006) left this unchanged.

Sandbach (1876) translated TIN.LÁNA as "tin mines" and SILVER.LÔNA as "silver countries".

Nowhere else in the OLB is land or lands spelled without a "d".

Once LÔNE is used separately, which was not translated by Sandbach, while Ottema had "laan" (lane).

I suspect that this is actually the same word as in the 'mining' context. On wiki I read that ancient tin mining in Cornwall was not done deeply in the earth, but in superficial streams (straight lines). So I suppose that "tin lanes" and "silver lanes" would be a good alternative to the existing translations. See fragments and original translations below.

LÔNE - 8 (fragment number)

TIN.LÁNUM - 1,4

TIN.LÁNA - 2,3,5,6

(ÍSER JEFTHA TIN LÁNA - 2)

TINLÔNUM - 9a

TINLÔNA - 9b

SULVER.LÔNA - 7

OLB fragments [page/ line]; O-S = Ottema Sandbach page nr.

1 [042/05] O-S p.61

STÉLTH I JETA RÉIS THÀN MOT HI NÉI THA TIN.LÁNUM

For a second offence he shall be sent to the tin mines

Steelt hij dan nog eens weer, dan moet hij naar de tinlanden

2 [042/19] O-S p.61

JEF I INNA ÍSER JEFTHA TIN LÁNA MÉI WERKA

... to work in the iron or tin mines

of hij in de ijzer- of tinlanden mag werken

3 [042/24] O-S p.61

KÀN SINE BURCHFÁM HIN FAR ALTID NEI THA TIN.LÁNA HELPA

if the Burgtmaagd can (forever) send him to the tin mines

kan zijne burgtmaagd hem voor altijd naar de tinlanden helpen

4 [042/30] O-S p.63

SA MOT I THACH NÉI THA TIN.LÁNUM

he must go to the tin mines (after all)

dan moet hij toch naar de tinlanden

5 [043/21] O-S p.63

MEN NAVT NÉI THA TIN.LÁNA

but not to the tin mines

maar niet naar de tinlanden

6 [048/08] O-S p.69

BRITTANJA MITH SINA TIN.LÁNA. [...] WAS THAT LAND THÉRA BANNALINGA

Britain (...) with her tin mines (...) was the land of the exiles

Brittannie met zijne tinlanden (...) was het land der ballingen

7 [078/12] O-S p.109

ET SULVER THÀT THA SLÁVONA UTA SULVER.LÔNA WNNON

the silver that their slaves got in the silver countries

het zilver, dat de slaven uit de zilverlanden wonnen

8 [095/14] O-S p.133

FOLLISTAR KÉMON OMME HERNE THÉRE LÔNE WÉI

Reinforcements came (from around the corner of the lane)

Helpers kwamen om den hoek van de laan weg

9 [198/24] O-S p.239

BRITNE ÀND BANNENE THÉR BÍ GRÁDUM MITH TÍD

FON ÛT.A TINLÔNUM THÉR HINNA FLJUCHTE.

THÉR UT.A TINLÔNA KÉMON HÀVATH ALGADUR

VRLANDISKA WIVA JEFTHA FON VRLANDHIS TUK.

Britons and fugitives who gradually, in the course of time,

took refuge there from the tin mines.

Those who come from the tin mines have wives,

either altogether foreign or of foreign descent.

Britten en vluchtelingen, die allengs met der tijd

uit de tinlanden derwaarts vluchtten.

Die uit de tinlanden kwamen, hebben al te gader

buitenlandsche vrouwen of van buitenlandsch ras.

Note that even in two consecutive sentences there can be spelling variety (fragment nine), or on one page (fragments 1-4).

Edited January 1, 2016 by Othar

[Apol]

Here the OLB tells us that shortly after the death of Finda, eponymous ancestress of the Finns, her descendants suffered some sort of cataclysm.

The names "Finda" and "Finns" resemble each others, but I haven't found any direct link which says that the Finns have any particular relation to Finda, though it can look like on page 45, where we read:

In her time, Finda had also invented a script; but it was so high-flown and full of frizzles and curls that the descendants soon had lost the meaning of it. Afterwards they had learnt our script, by name the Finns, the Tyrians, and the Krêkalanders.

On the pages 51-52, however, the book says:

Thus is the history: 100 and 1 years after Aldland sank [2092 BC] there came a people out from the East. That people were driven by another people. After our Twiskland they had discord. They divided themselves into two crowds. Each host went its way. From the first part no word has come to us, but the other part fell afterwards into our Skênland [scandinavia].

Skênland was thinly populated, and in the back edge the thinnest of all; therefore they managed to overwin it without struggle. And since they else did not do any harm, we therefore did not want any war. Now we have learnt them to know, so we will write about their customs; afterwards how it went on for us with them.

That people were not wild like many Finda’s lineages; but similar to the Egiptalandar they have priests like them – and now they have churches and images. The priests are the sole Lords; they call themselves Magians. Their uppermost is named Magus – he is high priest and king in one. All the other people is of no account [zero in the cipher] and neck and crop under his power.

This people have not even a name; by us they are called Finns, for though all their feasts are grim and bloody, they are there so fined [spruced] up, though, that we in that regard fall behind. Moreover, they are not to be envied, because they are slaves of the priests; and even worse – by their conceptions.

I regard it the way that the Finns lived in the East, just north of the Caucasus, and that they were driven north and northwest by the priestly caste, the Magians, who came from the Iran area - that the latters made them their cohabitants by suppressing and taking advantage of them. The Magians being thus more 'Finda-like' than the Finns.

It would have been interesting to have a discussion on this topic. Maybe it have been discussed on this blog earlier? If so, maybe someone could give the links to it.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Apol

[Ell]

TIN.LÁNA (and spelling varieties) was translated by Ottema (1872/1876) as "tinlanden" (tinlands) and SULVER.LÔNA as "zilverlanden" (silver lands). Jensma (2006) left this unchanged.

Sandbach (1876) translated TIN.LÁNA as "tin mines" and SILVER.LÔNA as "silver countries".

Nowhere else in the OLB is land or lands spelled without a "d".

Wikipedia: "Lana. This name could come from the Gaelic ailin, meaning "little rock". The Irish Gaelic use of this name probably derives from the Gaelic phrase a leanbh^[4], which was used to call a child. In German its meaning is Precious & the name derives from an Ancient Germanic name Adal".

So 'lana' might mean 'precious nugget'?

[Apol]

TIN.LÁNA (and spelling varieties) was translated by Ottema (1872/1876) as "tinlanden" (tinlands) and SULVER.LÔNA as "zilverlanden" (silver lands). Jensma (2006) left this unchanged.

Sandbach (1876) translated TIN.LÁNA as "tin mines" and SILVER.LÔNA as "silver countries".

Nowhere else in the OLB is land or lands spelled without a "d".

Once LÔNE is used separately, which was not translated by Sandbach, while Ottema had "laan" (lane).

I suspect that this is actually the same word as in the 'mining' context. On wiki I read that ancient tin mining in Cornwall was not done deeply in the earth, but in superficial streams (straight lines). So I suppose that "tin lanes" and "silver lanes" would be a good alternative to the existing translations. See fragments and original translations below.

I haven't thought about that, I just did like Ottema, Sandbach and Jensma, thinking that -lôna was just another of all the spelling variants in the book. At the same time I knew the lôna on page 95. I will for sure make a correction in my translation (http://oeralindabook...ook/h-odysseus/). The same applies obviously to tin.lôna, and certainly also to tin.lâna.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Apol

[Ott]

The names "Finda" and "Finns" resemble each others, but I haven't found any direct link which says that the Finns have any particular relation to Finda

I agree.

[The Puzzler]

With the lona etymology. I believe it often depends on who may have written the parts, where they came from for spelling variants or over the course of time, as it was rewritten, small changes could have crept in. LON and LAN is land in Northfries and variants in bolded bit below. The O has a circumflex over it.

land 100 und häufiger, lond, lan-d, lon-d, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Land, Landschaft, Raum, Volk; ne. land (N.), landscape (N.), nation; ÜG.: lat. patria K 10, possessio L 3, terminus L 20, terra K 9, KE, L 16, K 14, L 2; Vw.: s. ā-, bōk-, ei-, erf-, et-, fen-, fen-n-e-, Frēs-, gâ-s-t-, grē-d-, kâp-, mē-d-e-, Sax-, sê-, sē-d-, umbe-, wa-t-er-, -bed-e, -bod, -bre-k-ma, -drī-v-ere, -ēthe-l, -fen-n-ene, -fiā, -ga-ng, -hê-r-a, -hēr-e, -hre-g-g, -hūr-e, -kâp, -lêd-e, -nât, -râ-f, -rē-m-inge, -riuch-t, -san-n*, -sek-a, -sēt-a, -skip, -strē-t-e, -wa-nd-el, -wer-e, -wix-l-e, -zīv-e; Hw.: s. len-d-e, ov-er-lan-d-ich; vgl. got. land*, an. land, ae. land, as. land, ahd. lant; Q.: R, B, E, F, H, W, S, L 2, L 3, L 16, L 20, K 9, K 10, K 14, KE; E.: germ. *landa-, *landam, st. N. (a), Land, Talsenke; s. idg. *lendʰ- (3), Sb., Land, Heide (F.) (1), Steppe, Pokorny 675; vgl. idg. *lem- (1), V., Adj., zerbrechen, zerbrochen, weich, Pokorny 674; W.: nfries. lan; saterl. land; nnordfries. lon, lön; L.: Hh 62a Rh 909b

TIN.LÁNA (and spelling varieties) was translated by Ottema (1872/1876) as "tinlanden" (tinlands) and SULVER.LÔNA as "zilverlanden" (silver lands). Jensma (2006) left this unchanged.

Sandbach (1876) translated TIN.LÁNA as "tin mines" and SILVER.LÔNA as "silver countries".

Both seem variants of LAND to me on first glance.

However, also interesting is the word above land is lan, with circumflex -

lân 12, lâ-n, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Lohn; ne. payment; Hw.: s. arbê-d-es-, hūd-er-es-*, lūth-er-es-, ma-s-ter-, wi-ther-; Hw.: vgl. an. laun (2), ae. léan (1), anfrk. lōn, as. lôn, ahd. lōn (2); Q.: E, W; E.: germ. *launa-, *launam, st. N. (a), Beute (F.) (1), Lohn; vgl. idg. *lāu-, V., erbeuten, genießen, Pokorny 655; W.: nfries. lean; L.: Hh 62a, Rh 884a

loan (n.) mid-13c., from Old Norse lan, related to lja "to lend," from Proto-Germanic *laikhwniz (cognates: Old Frisian len "thing lent," Middle Dutch lene, Dutch leen "loan, fief," Old High German lehan, German Lehn "fief, feudal tenure"), originally "to let have, to leave (to someone)," from PIE *leikw- "to leave"

payment, loan - to lend - this might have something to do with mining 'tenure' - mine holding (usually on some sort of lease)

It might be why Sandbach has MINES for lana. I'm not really sure on 'lanes' though...

Edited January 2, 2016 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

LON and LAN is land in Northfries and variants in bolded bit below.

Yes, in current Frisian dialects, the "d" may be left out, but consider this:

Tinlána (and varieties) is nowhere spelled with a "d" and nowhere (else) in the OLB is "land" spelled without the "d":

LAND 96X

LÁND 57X

LANDA 47X

LÁNDA 8X

LANDAR 19X

LÁNDAR 6X

LANDUM 13X

LÁNDUM 5X

LÁNDER 2X

TEXLÁND 2X

SKÉNLAND 6X

SKÉNLÁND 2X

ÁTLAND 5X

VRLANDISKA 5X

TEXLAND 4X

KRÉKALANDAR 4X

LANDE 3X

TWISKLANDAR 3X

KRÉKALANDA 3X

ÉLAND 3X

KRÉKALANDER 2X

FLÍLAND 2X

SKÉNLANDER 2X

ALDLAND 2X

ÁLDLAND 2X

the following all 1X:

VPSALÁNDUM

LÁNDON (verb)

TWISKLÁNDAR

VRLÁNDISKE

FLÍLÁND

FLÍLÁNDA

LÁNDICH

INLÁNDISKA

TWISKLÁND

KRÉKALÁNDA

ÁTLÁND

LÁNDESKA

ÉGIPTALÁNDA

ÉLÁND

BROKLÁND

FLÍLÁNDIS

LÁNDSATON

KRÉKELANDA

VRLANDASKA

LANDWÉR

VRLANDISK

SÛDARLANDA

VRLANDHIS

TWISKLANDA

LANDIS.TAL

LANDWÉRAR

SKÉNLANDIS

LANDSÁTA

WRLANDISK

KRÉKALANDUM

ÉLANDA

BROKLAND

LANDESKE

LANDESKA

ÁLANDUM

ÁLANDAR

SÉLANDAR

(in one text only:)

LÔND 5X

LÔNDUM 1X

(note: sometimes it's hard to distinguish Á or À from simply A)

[Ott]

It might be why Sandbach has MINES for lana.

I think -mines is better than -lands and thought this was an example of Sandbach's translation being better than the ones by Ottema and Jensma, but then why did he translate "silver countries" and not "silver mines"?

[Apol]

Regarding: LÔNA, LÂNA:

Jan de Vries (Nederlands etymologisch woordenboek) and Douglas Harper (www.etymonline.com) explain Old Norse lön (plural: lanar) as ‘row of houses’, ‘way/road’, ‘barn’. Marius Hægstad and Alf Torp (Gamalnorsk ordbok med nynorsk tyding), however, translate it as ‘elongated pile or heap’. It is undoubtedly the same word in question, and ‘elongated pile or heap’ explains exactly what it is about.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Apol

[Apol]

Finda are the Finding-people (agile colonial power under the yoke of the priests who are into belief systems purely for their own gain).

Lyda are the foot people, doing the hard work for the gain of others.

Findas people are mainly to be connected with "finding-rykheid", as I see it cunningness.

Yes, do Finda's people have their name from their FINDINGRIKHÊD or OVER.FINDINGRIKHÊD?

There is nothing that is expressively said about it, but I have also asked myself if that's the case.

Finda's people shall turn its FINDINGRIKHÊD (inventiveness) into common advantage, that Lyda's people its strength, and we our wisdom (Page 141).

Among Finda's people there are unwise who by their OVER.FINDINGRIKHÊD (over-inventiveness) have become so wicked that they make themselves wise, and let their initiated ones assert that they are the best part of Wralda; that their spirit is the best part of Wralda's spirit, and that Wralda can only think by the help of their brain (Page 100).

Finda may possibly be identical with an old Wendic (“Findic”) mother goddess of pre-Celtic origin, named Vinda (Vindo, Uinda, Uindo, Uinde). The v readily becomes an f – for example is the v in Modern German pronounced as an f. Vinda is closely related to the old mother and reindeer goddess Bovinda, who has roots back in the Neolithic age. It probably is about the same deity.

Bovinda did in turn probably originate in India, where we find Govinda as one of the many names for the Hindu god Krishna. The word is composed of go (‘cow’) and wind (‘find’), meaning ‘cow finder’, i.e. ‘cow shepherd’, and which seems to confirm that Finda means ‘to find’ – but in the significance of ‘to find for protection’.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Apol

[FromFinland]

In her time, Finda had also invented a script; but it was so high-flown and full of frizzles and curls that the descendants soon had lost the meaning of it. Afterwards they had learnt our script, by name the Finns, the Tyrians, and the Krêkalanders.

If we do some little discourse analysis, it's easy to note how Finns are listed as among the other eastern nations, which is in the geographical sense true (see the attached map).

There is some disagreement whether the Central European Fennii are the same as the Nordic Finns (like me). Pasi Ockenström lists in his book (Fenni vai ei 2010, title means 'Fenni or not' in English) some clues:

Central European Fennii:

- described very primaevel for their time, as confirmed by archeological research of G. V. Styhov with iron tools replacing stone and bone items not until the first centuries AD (!)

- described as wild and brutal ('feritas' by Tacitus), matching the later mention in Nestor's chronicle of backwardish and wild Severian people moving from the area of modern Poland to Russian areas

- Tacitus's description puts them in the approximate area of Belarus, where the topology matches regarding the mountains

- Fennii may come from fen, a bog or a swamp.

Nordic Finns:

- same technology level as neighbours, including metal tools and weapons

- always described as peaceful and military activity depicted usually either as of defensive or reactive in type (even the Norway episode presented as a rescue operation)

- lived always here as long as everybody knows and sources always put at the Nordic area

- likewise name Suomi may come from suo or 'swamp', suomaa 'swamp-land' amongst many other speculations.

Mr. Ockenström's conclusion is that the Central European Fennii may be a separate people from the Nordic Finns. They are known to have disappeared from the history scene by the Russia's Rurikid period when their remnants moved to the Russian areas together with many other Slavic tribes. That is, they as western migrants mixed up with the native ethnic Finns of Nordic type and the few Scandinavian immigrants of viking heritage. That Finn/Fennii is not a direct reference to person's ethnicity and cultural background is confirmed also by the fact that Lapps have sometimes been referred to as 'Finns' by Scandinavians, whereas the Northern Finns living next to them were called Kvens (from Kainuu and Kajaani) or Carelians, with the people of Southern Finland being called Finns of Finland by same sources. Yet the Kvens and Carelians are just as 100 % pure ethnic and cultural Finns, unlike the Lapps of Lappland.

We may of course ponder if those Fennii of Tacitus were only a pitiful remnant of once greater Fennii-tribe, and whether they and us the Nordic Finns were merely different tribes of the same people to begin with:

They divided themselves into two crowds. Each host went its way. From the first part no word has come to us, but the other part fell afterwards into our Skênland.

I'm personally not so sure as to what to make of this all, as names like Finn are also known amongst the Scandinavians (popular viking name Thorfinn), Irishmen (popular recurring king's name) and Frisians (again a king's name). If you ask my opinion for the least likely scenario, it is the theory of Asian origins which is belied by studies on the distribution of blond hair and blue eyes.