Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

[Ell]

The evidence for the former existence of Fryasburch is in the road layout at Den Burg (aerial view below). Any bricks or other rubble may lie under centuries of later building, and be inaccessible. It is interesting, however, how Frisian design might have changed and evolved over the milliennia, from the open stone circles of the Neolithic, to the later closed structures of the Bronze and Iron Ages, built of less durable material such as brick or wood.

There likely is a relationship between the OLB Frisians and later structures in The Netherlands, but the OLB Frisians did not live in The Netherlands, nor anywhere close.

[Tony S.]

There likely is a relationship between the OLB Frisians and later structures in The Netherlands, but the OLB Frisians did not live in The Netherlands, nor anywhere close.

They did live in the Netherlands. Elsewhere too, but mainly, and latterly solely, the Netherlands.

[Ott]

The evidence for the former existence of Fryasburch is in the road layout at Den Burg...

How on earth is this "evidence" for here having been a BCE burgh?

It is possible that there was something then, but by no means proven.

[Tony S.]

How on earth is this "evidence" for here having been a BCE burgh?

It is possible that there was something then, but by no means proven.

It's in Texel (Texland) and it's called Den Burg. Evidence does not equal proof, however.

[Ott]

... and latterly solely, the Netherlands.

FYI: parts of Germany and Denmark are still known as (east and north) Friesland.

[Tony S.]

FYI: parts of Germany and Denmark are still known as (east and north) Friesland.

Yes, I know. I should have mentioned those too.

[Ott]

Evidence does not equal proof, however.

OK, so "evidence" means argument(s) or clue(s), used trying to prove something.

google translate:

proof - bewijs

evidence - bewijsmateriaal

[Ott]

BTW Tony, I have seen many JOL-like windows in Friesland, for example this former church in Pingjum:

[Tony S.]

BTW Tony, I have seen many JOL-like windows in Friesland, for example this former church in Pingjum:

Thanks, very interesting. As an ancient sacred symbol, it was presumably co-opted by the Christians after the conversion of the Frisians.

[Passing Time]

So who are the people who were dis-placed at this time , the Hyksos , greek .Yksws ,and Yews . were the 300 boatloads of people displaced sea people from "Avaris" (greed) who his father , and older brother started to war against .

They seem to have been ancient kinfolk of those in Athens .

have read this post again , but maybe it was not very clear ......If we agree Ahmose 1 was the pharaoh in 1500 bc ,then who are the warriors likely to be in the 300 ships ..........They could be Tyrians , but the threat made to Cecrops is not that the warriors on the boats will fight against Cecrops men , but that the boats will leave , and therefore the warriors will not get home.

So it sounds like the warriors on the ships , and the sailors are different nationalities ,......... Ahmose's father , and his brother are said to have been the ones who were at war with the Hyksos in Northern Egypt ( ie the lowlands of Avaris.....i do wonder if these people/place were considered greedy people...and this is where the word came from...ie they were trying to control all Egypts trade within the Med and that is why they had to be defeated) .....Avarice = Greed .

By Ahmose's early reign it sounds like he had won , and pushed out/ defeated the Hyksos ( in Greek : Yksws, Yews. .. not got a greek font ) and pushed them to the Highlands ( poss of Lebanon , or the jewish northern highlands ( Israels territory)

As it then turned out according to OLB ... The sailors (tyreans ) uplifted the Athenians , and took them to India starting a colony , that Alexander later encountered , and employed......

however if the ships left Greece with the Athenians , were the warriors stranded ? and could this have been a big influx of a new people in Greece.... under Cecrops ??

Is there likely to be any connetion with the name Cecrops , and Cyclops ?

Edited January 25, 2016 by Passing Time

[Ott]

... co-opted by the Christians

Many old farms also have such decorative windows.

[Apol]

How on earth is this "evidence" for here having been a BCE burgh?

It is possible that there was something then, but by no means proven.

Archäologische Ausgrabungen zeigen, dass der Ort schon lange besiedelt ist. So fand man hier eine friesische Burg, die etwa im 7. Jahrhundert vermutlich von den Franken zerstört wurde. 1345/1346 wurde das Dorf von Graf Jan van Beaumont wieder befestigt.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_Burg

Monumentenregister, monumentnummer 46042, N.v.t. 1790 AA te Den Burg:

TERREIN waarin: a overblijfselen van een ronde burcht met omringende gracht, waarbinnen een nederzetting. b overblijfselen van nederzettingen. Datering: a 9e - 10e eeuw. b late Bronstijd/vroege IJzertijd (gedeeltelijke bescherming, zie bijlage C).

http://monumentenregister.cultureelerfgoed.nl/php/main.php?cAction=show&cOffset=0&cLimit=25&cOBJnr=46042&oOrder=ASC&cLast=1&oField=OBJ_RIJKSNUMMER& sCompMonNr=46042&sCompMonName=&sStatus=&sProvincie=&sGemeente=&sPlaats=&sStraat=&sHuisnummer=&sPostcode=&sFunctie=&sHoofdcategorie=&sSubcategorie=&sOmschrijving=&ID=0&oField=OBJ_RIJKSNUMMER

But it is right that the burg isn't dated BC.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Apol

[Apol]

The six sides apparently reflect the Jule wheel. No windows are mentioned, as I expect in a holographic projection room.

The houses hadn't windows in those days - just air vents up under the ceilings. Glass for windows wasn't invented yet:

https://en.wikipedia...main_view02.jpg

http://commons.wikim...oongedeelte.jpg

The Romans were the first known to use glass for windows, a technology likely first produced in Roman Egypt, in Alexandria ca. 100 AD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window

Edited January 25, 2016 by Apol

[Tony S.]

Many old farms also have such decorative windows.

The canal folk of the English Midlands also decorated their boats with the same symbol.

[Tony S.]

The houses hadn't windows in those days - just air vents up under the ceilings. Glass for windows wasn't invented yet:

https://en.wikipedia...main_view02.jpg

http://commons.wikim...oongedeelte.jpg

The Romans were the first known to use glass for windows, a technology likely first produced in Roman Egypt, in Alexandria ca. 100 AD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window

A window doesn't need to have glass in it. It might have shutters instead, or even just be a hole.

[Apol]

How about the lamp itself? The description in the OLB implies it is inside the tower, hidden. So not at all like a six-sided lighthouse, for example. But it seems to me that the lighthouse configuration would make a lot more sense, if the text supported it.

Yes, I think the lighthouse configuration comes quite close. I think the tower of the burg of Ljudgârda may have looked somewhat like this:

http://www.unexplain...ges/12752/Tower

...with a small house for the astronomers on top, and the lamp hanging in the ceiling of the floor below.

The tower was 90 feet high (27 m), and the lamp was for sure not big, because we read in the book that sea-king Jon brought the lamps of both Minerva and Kælta aboard his ships.

We read: "inna tore hangt ðju foddik". I would think it was significant that the light from the lamp should be seen by people outside the burg - as a reminder of eternal Wralda. The lamp also produced smoke, so it would have been unpractical to have it inside of walls.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Apol

[Tony S.]

Yes, I think the lighthouse configuration comes quite close. I think the tower of the burg of Ljudgârda may have looked somewhat like this:

http://www.unexplain...ges/12752/Tower

...With a small house for the astronomers on top, and the lamp hanging in the ceiling of the floor below.

The lamp was for sure not big, because we read in the book that sea-king Jon brought the lamps of both Minerva and Kælta aboard his ships.

I would think it was significant that the light from the lamp should be seen by people outside the burg - as a reminder of eternal Wralda.

Very nice sketch. We are told that Apollonia's tower was 90 feet high, which might give enough room for perhaps as many as six floors, depending on how low the ceilings were, and so on, though no separate floors are actually mentioned. Either way, there must also have been stairs or ladders of some sort, to allow access to the observatory on the roof.

[Passing Time]

regarding the two lamps brought back by Jon , i dont think the importance for them was the size of the lamps , it seems to me the importance was that they thought the original lamp was lit with fire sent somehow from wr-alda ,and that they must not let that light go out .....it could have been a small bowl , with a wick , and oil , what it was was not important , the flame was the only important thing..... so that each mother of a new burgh , could have a light lit with the same god given flame.

this is why i think the story of the Kali meteor , that set the forests alight , and the heroes had to travel to it and obtain the god given flame , remember the story was that the meteor was thought of as the place god (wr-alda ?) came to earth ,any size of beacon could be lit from it , but it had to be that flame . is the way i see it.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Passing Time

[Van Gorp]

regarding the two lamps brought back by Jon , i dont think the importance for them was the size of the lamps , it seems to me the importance was that they thought the original lamp was lit with fire sent somehow from wr-alda ,and that they must not let that light go out .....it could have been a small bowl , with a wick , and oil , what it was was not important , the flame was the only important thing..... so that each mother of a new burgh , could have a light lit with the same god given flame.

Very interesting and maybe the time and place to 'enlighten' for ever the classic stand-still of obscure etymologies of unknown origins, we know the origin.

"Olympikos, from Olympos, of unknown origin" http://www.etymonlin...hp?term=olympic

This is of course the Oil Lamp (Olielamp), the eternal flame which stands for the never ending bond between human and the super-human world (wr-ald) of the God(s).

The Olympic flame is so obvious. Both on the mountains Olympos over the world as where the games were held in honour, the flame constitutes the eternal bond.

So if we can declare this as such, the long held belief ancient culture/language sprouted from Greece or Latin world to the west/north is ready to fall.

So the origin must be held obscure and covered by the never lifting mists of mythology :-) This is no conspiracy I don't belief in such, this is just stubborn prejudice.

Edit:

example (sample):

"The most basic oil-lamp form—a shallow dish filled with oil or grease and a partially submerged wick or rag—was used from biblical times to the Victorian era." http://www.collectorsweekly.com/lamps/oil

So it's simple: The foddik is the oillamp using a vod (wick of rag)

Edited January 25, 2016 by Van Gorp

[Tony S.]

With regard to the tower, while we are not told its other dimensions, we can perhaps guess that each of the six sides was 21 feet wide, since the long houses attached to each side of the tower were similarly 21 feet wide. If this was the case, the diameter of the tower would be 42 feet, since the diameter of a regular hexagon is twice the length of one of its sides. Given that the tower is 90 feet tall, which is only slightly more than twice 42, we should not be imagining a tall, thin tower at all, but actually a rather low, wide one. If the sides were more than 21 feet wide (they cannot possibly be less, given the position of the attached houses), this wideness is increased still further.

[Tony S.]

We should also give some thought to the exact length of a foot among the ancient Frisians. The Anglo-Saxons used the North German Foot of 13.2 (modern) inches. We know its exact length because a statute of the late 13th century, known as the Composition of Yards and Perches, redefined the length of the foot as 10/11 of its previous value, thus establishing the modern English foot. This North German Foot is presumably the foot used by the Frisians.

A tower described as 90 feet tall, therefore, would actually be 99 modern feet tall.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Tony S.

[Apol]

With regard to the tower, while we are not told its other dimensions, we can perhaps guess that each of the six sides was 21 feet wide, since the long houses attached to each side of the tower were similarly 21 feet wide. If this was the case, the diameter of the tower would be 42 feet, since the diameter of a regular hexagon is twice the length of one of its sides. Given that the tower is 90 feet tall, which is only slightly more than twice 42, we should not be imagining a tall, thin tower at all, but actually a rather low, wide one. If the sides were more than 21 feet wide (they cannot possibly be less, given the position of the attached houses), this wideness is increased still further.

I agree. Here is my drawing of the burg of Ljudgârda:

Edited January 26, 2016 by Apol

[Apol]

regarding the two lamps brought back by Jon , i dont think the importance for them was the size of the lamps , it seems to me the importance was that they thought the original lamp was lit with fire sent somehow from wr-alda ,and that they must not let that light go out .....it could have been a small bowl , with a wick , and oil , what it was was not important , the flame was the only important thing..... so that each mother of a new burgh , could have a light lit with the same god given flame.

I have always thought of the Lamp as fired with wood or coal - I don't know exactly why, but maybe because I have envisioned it as a lamp to be seen on a distance. Maybe you are right that the Lamp was just a quite small one fueled with oil or fat and kept inside the tower for no-one to see except the femmes. Anyway, I think you are right that it may have been fueled with oil or fat.

Something like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_lamp

It was for sure not like this:

http://imgur.com/7YpnzZD

I wonder how they were able to carry it without the flame being extinguished.

In fact, I tend to believe that the Lamp must have been something like the ancient so-called 'julleuchters', which have been found in different places in Northern Europe:

Edited January 26, 2016 by Apol

[kmt_sesh]

have read this post again , but maybe it was not very clear ......If we agree Ahmose 1 was the pharaoh in 1500 bc ,then who are the warriors likely to be in the 300 ships ..........They could be Tyrians , but the threat made to Cecrops is not that the warriors on the boats will fight against Cecrops men , but that the boats will leave , and therefore the warriors will not get home.

So it sounds like the warriors on the ships , and the sailors are different nationalities ,......... Ahmose's father , and his brother are said to have been the ones who were at war with the Hyksos in Northern Egypt ( ie the lowlands of Avaris.....i do wonder if these people/place were considered greedy people...and this is where the word came from...ie they were trying to control all Egypts trade within the Med and that is why they had to be defeated) .....Avarice = Greed .

By Ahmose's early reign it sounds like he had won , and pushed out/ defeated the Hyksos ( in Greek : Yksws, Yews. .. not got a greek font ) and pushed them to the Highlands ( poss of Lebanon , or the jewish northern highlands ( Israels territory)

As it then turned out according to OLB ... The sailors (tyreans ) uplifted the Athenians , and took them to India starting a colony , that Alexander later encountered , and employed......

however if the ships left Greece with the Athenians , were the warriors stranded ? and could this have been a big influx of a new people in Greece.... under Cecrops ??

Is there likely to be any connetion with the name Cecrops , and Cyclops ?

I know I rarely post in this thread but I'm an occasional lurker, and noticed your post. I think I can shed some important light on your interest in this matter and clear up a few things.

Ahmose I is responsible for ultimately repelling the Hyksos and launching the New Kingdom, Egypt's unparalleled period of empire. The war had been started by his father, Seqenenre Tao II, whose mummy shows in all likelihood that he died in battle. The removal of the Hyksos from Egypt was concluded by around 1550 BCE, which happens to be about the same time the Mycenaeans were first appearing on the scene in mainland Greece at centers like Mycenae and Pylos. But there is no possible connection between the Hyksos and the earliest Greeks—ethnically completely different, as well as culturally and linguistically.

It's helpful to understand the origin of the name "Hyksos." It derived from the Greek tongue a very long after the Hyksos themselves had disappeared from history. It's a Greek corruption of the ancient Egyptian term HKA-xAswt (literally, "foreign rulers"). The origin of the Greek derivation is most like the Egyptian "historian" Manetho who lived in the early Ptolemaic Period, when Macedonian overlords ruled Egypt. But originally this ancient Egyptian term referred generically to any group of people who were foreign to Egypt. Probably around the time large influxes of Syro-Palestinians were migrating into Egypt (late in the Middle Kingdom and into the Second Intermediate Period), HKA-xAswt came especially to refer to Canaanites.

Analysis of Hyksos centers like Avaris helps to clarify who the bulk of the Hyksos population were. Based on their ceramics and other material culture, shrines, architecture, and burial customs, they were primarily southern Palestinians (Canaanites). Ahmose I wrested them from Avaris and out of the Delta and all the way into the Negev. One of his generals left an autobiographical account in which he described how the Hyksos took up refuge in a walled fortress in the Negev, where the Egyptians besieged them, stormed the city, and slaughtered the entire population. For all intents and purposes the Hyksos were extinct by the end of the sixteenth century BCE.

There is no connection with the Sea Peoples, who first appeared on the scene in the reign of Merneptah, in Dynasty 19, long after the time of Ahmose I. The Sea Peoples were a symptom or side effect of the collapse of the great Bronze Age civilizations throughout the eastern Mediterranean by around 1200 to 1100 BCE. Very different time, very different set of events and circumstances taking place then.

On a closing note, it's also helpful to know that the name Avaris is a much more recent derivation. That's not the site's ancient name. The Egyptians called the city Hwt-wrt.

[Tony S.]

I agree. Here is my drawing of the burg of Ljudgârda:

That's a really good diagram. I would have to say, though, that I think the flat sides of the tower face the long houses. Apollonia's text says the houses are "on either side" of the tower. Therefore, one side of the tower faces north, and another faces south, for example. The houses probably join the tower without a gap, since the "form of the Jol" has no gaps in the centre. In other words, on its ground floor the tower has no exposed wall, and the only way in is through the long houses (though they may have entrances near the tower, of course).