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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]


Abramelin
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To add: (at Walcheren)

The area of Domburg has been inhabited since ancient times. In 1647 after heavy storms on the beach of Domburg a sanctuary was discovered with around 40 stones with Latin inscriptions and carvings of several gods, among them of Neptune (sea) and Mercury (trade), but the majority of a local female deity: Nehalennia who appears to have protected both trade and shipping. According to the inscriptions the stones were erected by tradesmen and captains to fulfil their vows after a safe journey, mentioning explicitly on one stone a merchant of pottery doing business with Britain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domburg

Well, this will soon go into the direction of the etymology of Nehalennia, so I wil add a new one...

We have read in this thread (part ! and II) about several etymologies (I think around 10 by now) of the name Nehalennia.

After reading a Dutch translation of the Prose Edda, and remembering Procopius' (?) record of a myth concerning some death cult in NW Europe (the dead being ferrried to the White Island) I came to this etymology of the name:

NA-HLIN, or "protectress of the Dead". And, also according to the Prose Edda, "ENEA" is Old Icelandic for Europe.

So I get: NA-HLIN-ENEA or "Protectress of the Dead from Europe".

Na = dead body, corpse

HLIN = protectress

ENEA = Europe.

Even if I skip the ENEA part, NA-HLIN sounds quite ok as an etymology for Nehalennia.

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Two significant sources (in Dutch) that were not linked to yet (I think):

Ottema (1873) Geschiedkundige aanteekeningen en ophelderingen bij Thet Oera Linda Bok

Ottema (1874) De Koninkijke Akademie en het Oera Linda Boek

In the first, on page 28 (translated), about JES.US (or BUDA, see pages 185-193 in Sandbach's translation of the OLB):

By searching "Yezidi", I found:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis

In a further search I found an interesting etymology:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazata

Since Yaz, yez, yes, jes is all the same, this very well explains the name JES.US, and it might even explain "yes" as in our confirmation: I honor, I agree.

As I have explained earlier, I don't think JES.US in OLB refers to the later Jesus of Nazareth. The latter may (as "Isa"?) have had part of his education in India (where he also died many years after the 'resurrection', as very well theorised by others) and have gotten the name "Jesus" there, after one of the names of Buddha. Why would he have been the first with that name?

In Srinagar, Kashmir, there is a shrine dedicated to a "Yuz Asaf", or "Shepherd/Leader of the Healed". Some like to believe that this is where Jesus was buried (he had survived the crucifiction, went east with his mother, and so on).

Yuz Asaf <> Jes-us?

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I thought that some of you might be interested in a renowned German linguist, Theo Vennemann....

I have posted about his - controversial, yes - theories before, but nevertheless, here it is again (and notice what he tells us about the Belgae...) :

https://books.google... belgae&f=false

A few weeks ago I read this book about the Celts in the Low Lands: http://users.telenet...inx/kelten.html

An interesting chapter was about the Frisii. The writer suggests that the Frisii (not the Frisians of later centuries) of Tacitus' time may have been Celts, or a Celtic speaking tribe, or, as Vennemann would have it, a tribe speaking a proto-Italo-Celtic language.

What's interesting here is that the 3d translator of the OLB, Overwijn (after Ottema and Wirth), was convinced that the original language of the OLB-Fryans was Celtic, but that later on the chroniclers used a Germanic language. And - according to the same writer - that explains the often nonsensical etymologies he found in the OLB.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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That would certainly explain the chronological discrepancy between the life of Jes-us Buddha in the 6th century BC, as described by the OLB, and the life of Jesus of Nazareth in the 1st century AD, according to standard history. His life, and the subsequent fate of his teachings at the hands of corrupt priests, as recorded in the OLB could, for the most part, just as easily refer to Buddha as to Jesus of Nazareth, although the plain meaning of the text nevertheless seems to equate the two individuals. In particular:

< snip >

The discrepancy is based on everybody following Ottema's calculation about the time this Jes-us (and not Jessos) lived. Only Overwijn said the date was 2194 BCE, close or at the same time as the disaster.

And if you read the literal translation of the text, then you will know that the date should indeed be 2194 BCE or not more than a century or so later.

Btw, Krishna (or Kris-en) lived in the 3 millenium BCE, and Buddha is nothing but a title.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Thank you The Puzzler for teaching me about the Egeria - very interesting. Clearly we see a pattern here Fasta/Vesta/Veleda/Vala/Völva/Vegoia/Egeria. These give many etymological possibilities:

vetenskap - knowledge (Scandinavian)

veta - to know (Scandinavian)

val - elections, a selection (Scandinavian)

validate - to confirm (English)

valita - to choose (Finnish)

velho - a wizard (Finnish).

wail/valittaa - to lament, to cry (English and Finnish).

I thought about the connection to the fate or luck of female Fortuna-wheel:

Another parallel to Norse mythology is that a 'Völva', or Vala was a 'Seeress' that was connected with water and foretelling, called 'Völuspa' (that is, Völva+Spake/Speech). In Norse myth, making Völuspas was connected to spinning/braiding the Thread of Fate for the one whose future had been foreseen. Völva is cognate to 'Wheel/Spinning Wheel'. All also traits of goddess Mokosh/Vela (
)

The Lombard historian Paulus Diaconus, who died in Southern Italy in the 790s, was proud of his origins and wrote on how his people once had departed from southern Scandinavia.[8] He tells of a conflict between the early Lombards and the Vandals. The latter turned to Odin (Godan), while Gambara, the mother of the two Lombard chieftains Ibor and Aio, turned to Odin's spouse Frea (Freyja/Frigg). Frea helped Gambara play a trick on Odin and thanks to the völva Gambara's good relations with the goddess, her people won the battle.

The above author Paulus Diaconus may be of interest to you of Frisians interest, not only for the above story about Freya and völva, but his History of The Langobards mentions the following in passing:

In like manner also the
race of Winnili
, that is, of Langobards, which afterwards rules prosperously in Italy, deducing its origin from the German peoples, came from the island which is called
Scadinavia
, though other causes of their emigration are also alleged.4

4 The other cayses of the emigration of the Winnili may be those suggested in the Chronicon Gothanum where the prophetess or sibyl Gambara "declared to them their migration." "Moved therefore not by necessity, nor hardness of heard, nor oppression of the poor, but that they should attain salvation from on high, she says that they are to go forth." (Monument, Germ. Hist. Leges, IV, 641.).

To my knowledge, Paulus Diaconus above and possibly the Chronicon Gothanum are only sources aside the Oera Linda book that put the name Winnili - or the Finns - to Scandinavia prior to the much later age of the Finnish Fornjót dynasty. While not quoted here, it's clear that the Winnili here are not Lapps (sometimes also called 'Finns'), for they're described separately under the 'Scritobini'. That V or W could become F is not my idea, but of a common linguistical knowledge. It's also given in the Boxström saga, where the root etymology of the name 'Finland' is given as "Vin-land" (Bock 1996, 64). (Not to be confused with North American Vinland.)

That being said, somebody might point out - correctly - that Winnili here are Germanic and not Finnic. I would agree with that one, yet point out one thing: the most prominent and high-ranking Central European Germanic tribe of yore was that of Amali, whose name stems from the given name Amal. In turn, it just happens to mean Jumala 'a god' in Finnish. It was known by later Vikings as Jomali, which is more or less comparable to Amali (Jomali/Amali). This was noted by folklore collector Kristfrid Ganander already way back in 1789 in his Mythologia Fennica. Thus a Scandinavian tribe with name sounding like 'Finns' is not necessarily that far out, and we may ponder if it has connection to Scandinavian Finns of Oera Linda story.

Oera Linda book:

One hundred and one years after the submersion of Aldland
a people came out of the East
. That people was driven by another. Behind us, in Twiskland (Germany), they fell into disputes, divided into two parties, and each went its own way. Of the one no account has come to us, but the
other came in the back of our Schoonland, which was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part. Therefore they were able to take possession of it without contest, and as they did no other harm, we would not make war about it.
Now that we have learned to know them, we will describe their customs, and after that how matters went between us. They were not wild people, like most of Finda’s race; but, like the Egyptians,
they have
priests and
also statues in their churches
. (
)

Frithiof's saga on how Norwegian king Helge died:

Thou canst but know

That while thou here wert building, he was on the march

Among the Finnish mountains
. On a lonely crag [Finnish mountains = "back of our Schoonland" above]

There stood an ancient shrine. To Jumala 'twas built
[
Jumala
= 'God' in Finnish]

Abandoned long ago
,—the door was now fast closed;

But just above the portal still there stood a strange

Old image of the god, now tottering to its fall.

But no one dare approach, for there a saying rife

Among the people went from age to age, that he

Who first the temple sought should Jumala behold.

This Helge heard, and, blinded by his furious wrath,

Went up the ruined steps against the hated god,—

Intent to cast the temple down. When there arrived

The gate was closed,— the key fast rusted in the lock.

Then grasping both the door-posts, hard and fierce he shook

The rotten
pillars
. All at once, with horrid crash,

Down fell the ponderous image, crushing in its fall

The Valhal-son. And thus he Jumala beheld.

A messenger last night arrived the tidings bore.

Now Halfdan sits alone on Bele's throne. To him

Thy hand extend, to heaven thy vengeance sacrifice.

That offering Balder asks, and I, his priest, require

In token that the peaceful god thou mockest not.

If thou refuse, this temple then is built in vain,

And vainly have I spoken. (
)

The story continues with the victorious Wodin meeting with the Magy's lamenting messengers:

You think that we attacked your brothers out of illwill, but
we were driven out by our enemies
, who are still at our heels. We have often asked your Burgtmaagd for help, but she took no notice of us. The Magy says that if we kill half our numbers in fighting with each other, then
the wild shepherds
will come and kill all the rest.

[...]

When Wodin was crowned, he attacked
the savages, who were all horsemen, and fell upon Wodin’s troops like a hailstorm
; but like a whirlwind they were turned back, and did not dare to appear again.

Please compare to the much later case of Finnic Bjarmians fleeing the Mongols to Northern Norway - i.e. "back of our Schoonland", again peacefully:

The 13th century seems to have seen the decline of the Bjarmians, who became tributaries of the Novgorod Republic.
While many Slavs fled the Mongol invasion northward
, to Beloozero and Bjarmaland,
the displaced Bjarmians sought refuge in Norway, where they were given land around the Malangen fjord
, by Haakon IV of Norway, in 1240. (
)

Was it a tradition already at that Medieval time? Were the crags and mountains of "back of our Schoonland" already full of derelict Finnic temples of yore?

Thereafter the Wodin story links with Nordic and Finnish sources, with marrying the Magy's daughter, or the Finnic princess Rinda as I have previously shown in this thread. What happened to Wodin, who went missing as per the Oera Linda book? Well, that's time for another topic and another post.

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Yes, another post I'll go into more detail with your very interesting post but for now I'm glad you took notice of Egeria FF.

At another time I noted her name, unknowing what you have presented, as connecting to milk, funny enough.

Numa used to feed her milk, it was her only asked requirement she requested, they also used to pour milk libations at her rock spring, I'm going on memory, on iPad now, I'll be at my computer later. In Polish, maybe Finnish egeria does mean milk, do a search here even on my posts with it, I thought it was extraordinary. Your connections do all so seem valid. I make Mycenae to be a Finnish word, it's not Greek, it means something like place of sorrow when you compare it's Linear B construction with Finnish that is, it actually was by the end, a virtual city of death. I hate doing anything on this iPad, even though it's handy, I'll give it that. Back later.

PS I personally think Egeria could be an installed burgh/folk mother of a kind, who may have lived in near Krekaland when the Fryans had 'factories' there and she was basically handing over sacred and possibly secret ancient Fryan lores/laws to Numa.

Edited by The Puzzler
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And if you read the literal translation of the text, then you will know that the date should indeed be 2194 BCE or not more than a century or so later.

We disagree on this.

I have explained in detail why I think it is very well possible to read it as meaning 6th C. BCE, which would make total sense indeed.

You can have your theory, but you'll have to accept that it's not the only one.

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Sorry, double post, told you this iPad sucked.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Well, this will soon go into the direction of the etymology of Nehalennia, so I wil add a new one...

We have read in this thread (part ! and II) about several etymologies (I think around 10 by now) of the name Nehalennia.

After reading a Dutch translation of the Prose Edda, and remembering Procopius' (?) record of a myth concerning some death cult in NW Europe (the dead being ferrried to the White Island) I came to this etymology of the name:

NA-HLIN, or "protectress of the Dead". And, also according to the Prose Edda, "ENEA" is Old Icelandic for Europe.

So I get: NA-HLIN-ENEA or "Protectress of the Dead from Europe".

Na = dead body, corpse

HLIN = protectress

ENEA = Europe.

Even if I skip the ENEA part, NA-HLIN sounds quite ok as an etymology for Nehalennia.

Possibly Abe. I see it like I have an explanation of Texland/Tessell, a name that is originally Frisian, with a Frisian etymology that once time went on and the Frisians became smaller as the Dutch rose, names in areas became a Dutch etymology and a slight language change through natural sound shifts, like x left the scene for ss where Texel became Tessell, from a Germanic tex/token etymology to a Tess/tassel, textile words through the Dutch language change.

We 'clearly' know what Nyhellenia means via the OLB, your later version may indeed be the later etymological version of it, once Romance languages (Walhas) and as such based Dutch languages and people became the more dominant.

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I have changed my mind about the Phrygians. I no longer consider them to be Frysians. They might be, but the only argument I have left is the etymological one and that in my opinion is insufficient evidence for the conclusion / hypothesis.

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The etymology of Latin "templum" (temple) is not clear:

... of uncertain signification.

Commonly referred to PIE root *tem- "to cut" (see tome), on notion of "place reserved or cut out" [...], or to root *temp- "to stretch" [...], on notion of "cleared (measured) space in front of an altar" (see tenet and temple (n.2)), the notion being perhaps the "stretched" string that marks off the ground.

source

Latin "tempus" = time

OLB: "T.ANFANG" = the beginning (of time) and related (an other name of?) to WR.ALDA (the most ancient one)

Tamfana (Tacitus Annals I-50-51) temple of the Germanic Marsi, that was destroyed by Roman army. The notion that Tamfana was a goddess has no base, it is an assumption.

So "templum" might originally be a place where (the beginning) of Time was contemplated.

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In my translation of the sixth book of the Aeneid I conclude that the word templum has roots that indicate a buzzing or humming noise, as of electrical equipment; for example from a generator.

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Quote: “templum = tam / tar (usually tarm or tars) – bhla / bhram = to choke, stifle, be choked or breathless, to fear / to tremble – to blow, puff, spout forth / to hum, to whirl, be confused, straggle; one or more electrical apparatus that cause a vibration and a hum”.

This was my analysis by the Aryan roots - i.e. the roots that I suspect them to be.

Then also there is the context: the temple of the Sibyl was the high tech communication centre of its associated space port.

This context played a huge part in determining what the Aryan roots of the word might be.

Edited by Ell
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I have earlier shown how the Wodin marrying an eastern woman is known - and thus confirmed - from Scandinavian and Finnish myths. Later, I mentioned in passing how the architype of Odin is known by us Finns as Väinämöinen, with the similarity extending to their respective sons Balder and Lemminkäinen. Moreover, the story of Wodin beating back cavalry enemy, that had harassed Finns towards the west, is strongly echoed later in Medieval times by the story of Mongols invasion causing the Finnish Bjarmians to flee westwards into the Norway. In this final part on Wodin, we'll see what the eastern European sources tell of Wodin's eventual fate and how the word survives today in Finnish context.

As the Poetic Edda's vision of Odin's death by the Fenrir-wolf is very much apocalyptic and fantastical in style, we'll look for the more realistic depictions. In the Heimskringla's Ynglinga Saga the Odin is given origins in the Asaland, east of the Don river of Russia (of whose beaches constitutes the Vanaheim). Odin arrives west by moving to Russia (Gardarike), Germany (Saxony) and to Denmark (Odense). Here the Ynglinga saga, that differs otherwise from the Oera Linda book, echoes the OLB:

The navy then sailed to
Denmark, where they took on board Wodin
and his valiant host.

The wind was fair,
so they arrived
immediately
in Schoonland
. When the northern brothers met together, Wodin divided his powerful army into three bodies. Frya was their war-cry, and they drove back the Finns and Magyars like children.
When the Magy heard how his forces had been utterly defeated, he sent messengers with truncheon and crown, who said to Wodin: O almighty king
we are guilty, but all that we have done was done from necessity. You think that we attacked your brothers out of illwill, but we were driven out by our enemies, who are still at our heels. We have often asked your Burgtmaagd for help, but she took no notice of us. The Magy says that if we kill half our numbers in fighting with each other, then the wild shepherds will come and kill all the rest. The Magy possesses great riches, but he has seen that Frya is much more powerful than all our spirits together. He will lay down his head in her lap. You are the most warlike king on the earth, and your people are of iron.
Become our king, and we will all be your slaves. What glory it would be for you if you could drive back the savages! Our trumpets would resound with your praises, and the fame of your deeds would precede you everywhere. Wodin was strong, fierce, and warlike, but he was not clear-sighted, therefore he was taken in their toils, and crowned by the Magy.

[...]

Whereupon he
[Wodin]
was incensed with herbs; but they were magic herbs
, and by degrees he became so audacious that he dared to disavow and ridicule the spirits of Frya and Wr-alda, while he bent his free head before the false and deceitful images.

Compare to Ynglinga saga:

[Odin] himself went northwards to the sea, and
took up his abode in an island which is called Odins in Fyen
[Odense, Fyn island, Denmark]. Then he sent Gefion
across the sound to the north
to discover new countries; and she came to
King Gylve
, who gave her a ploughgate of land.

[...]

Now when Odin heard that things were in a prosperous condition in the land to the east beside Gylve [sweden in Scandinavia];
he went thither, and Gylve made a peace with him, for Gylve thought he had no strength to oppose the people of Asaland. Odin and Gylve had many tricks and enchantments against each other; but the Asaland people had always the superiority.

From there the two stories again separate: in OLB Wodin disappears for good and story moves on to other things, whereas in Ynglinga saga has Odin establish his realm in Sweden and dies peacefully at bed in 'Swithiod' which refers to all the land areas north of Black Sea. Let's compare the two sources above for comparisons:

# 1:
in both Odin starts at Denmark and heads to Scandinavian mainland

# 2:
the name or title of the enemy chief is original sources
Mâgy
or
Gylfa
, both feature the distinctive part
gy
, whether in
Mâ-gy
or
Gyl-fa

# 3:
in both the Odin has a decisive easy victory: in OLB enemy is crushed and in Ynglinga saga enemy surrenders right away

# 4:
in both Odin is crowned as the Scandinavian king

# 5:
in both there is an element of conspiracy between the contestants, with fishy herbs in OLB and tricks and enchantments in Ynglinga saga

In addition consider the following:

# 6:
OLB has Wodin as military commander (hêrman), whereas Ynglinga saga has Odin as "a great and very far-travelled warrior" (chapter 2).

# 7:
both make Odin a mysterious traveller: in OLB he disappears eventually, in Ynglinga saga he often wanders out and is thought as lost (chapter 3).

# 8:
both have two brothers: in OLB Inka and Tünis, in Ynglinga saga Ve and Vilje (chapter 3).

While the stories differ in many regards, surely all the above shows that they must have a one common source? Moreover, can we now research the matter more by making the following assumptions:

# A:
Mâgy
of
Skên land
is king Gylfa, whose name refers to
magic
and is also clue to his ethnicity or social position

# B:
when Wodin conquered
Skên land
, he established his realm at Mälaren lake and named it
, as related by Ynglinga saga (chapter 5)

# C:
that OLB Wodin's unnamed father's real name is either

# D:
that this Wodin is one and the same Odin, the founder of later
and
?

Moving on, we consider what happened to Odin eventually. OLB has him disappear, Ynglinga saga die a peaceful death in bed at Swithiod, which is basicly anywhere north of Black Sea. Into where did Wodin disappear, and at where exactly was that bed upon which Odin died in the wide lands north of the Black Sea? Well, it turns out there is a clue left, thankfully to faithful Estonians who have kept the tradition alive:

In Finland and Estonia toponyms starting with Ota- and Ote- come likely from the name of the Odinn.
The name of Orion [in Finnish Otava] is in old Swedish Odenvagn and in German Woenswaghen. Orion star constellation was thought of being Odinn's chariot, by which he wanders through the night sky.

[...]

Odinn's last years went by as a wandering ascetic sailing by the coasts of Baltic sea. He is buried at the Osmussaari
[island of Osmu]
(Odensholm)
at the front of Estonia. On the island is an old pathway, which the island's old inhabitants knew Odinn had walked once when he arrived at the island.
They still know the exact burial place of the Odinn
, but the grave stones (it was a so-called viking age stone boulder grave) were used by the Soviet troops to build fortresses of the island when it was used as a base. (
, translated from Finnish by me)

There you have it folks: Osmussaar. It is situationed in the west part of Great Swithiod of Ynglinga saga. Odin did seem to sail on the Baltics, for just north of Osmussaar-Odensholm of the Estonian coast there is in the Finnish coasts the island of Udensö or Odensö, known as 'Odin island' by Kristfrid Ganander (Mythologia Fennica 1789, on word Saaris). Estonia is away from the West European scene of the OLB, hence the disappearing. Moreover, that our heathen forefathers found heroes in the sky is confirmed by Boxström saga tradition, which speaks almost poetically on the naming of the star systems, names the major sky object - sun - as Oden, has south Finland named all over after Oden (Uudenmaa, Odensö island above, Odensborg castle) and even speaks of 'faith of Oden' (Bock 1996, 12-13, 22, 52).

Now, when you see the The Lord of the Rings movies with your friends, you can relate to them the true story of real-life Gandalf "the Odinic wanderer", or Odin the Wanderer, in full. :)

Edited by FromFinland
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The temple is intriguing me.

So, the Greek word is TEMENOS, no P.

Earliest is Linear B, te-me-no

The TEME is to cut, I would think this is relative to TIME.

To get the P in Latin.... You would take the early Greek form and find the pus suffix for tempus/time,which can only mean SMALL as it does in Latin.

Then you get TEME to cut (the larger form of time) into TEM PUS to cut smaller ie; measure time, (smaller form of time, like minutes)

This is not official but it seems more than logical to me, as good as this official explanation for TEMPT... The Latin alteration is "explainable only as an ancient error due to some confusion" [Century Dictionary]. Tempt

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Tempt

You go from TM words like TEMENOS and TOME to TMP words and there is no real explanation how...

Back to temple, LAtin PLUM can mean feather, (pluma) as in plumage, so TEM plum could possibly mean place to cut feathers, now, from what I know,this is what classic augers did, they read the path of BIRDS in temples originally, that's the auspices.

Herodotus tells an odd story of bird sounding speaking women being the first to tend the temple of Zeus.

Also I see no discrepancy in Cronus as Time with a scythe, he is the time cutter, which is weirdly amusing if I think of the Jul wheel, cut into 6 portions of time. Maybe an original TEMENOS. The OLB does describe it as a time function.

http://www.historywiz.com/galleries/mistressofanimals.html

Edited by The Puzzler
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Interesting looking at other temple words, Sumerian E.

The term temen appearing frequently after É in names of ziggurats is translated as "foundation pegs", apparently the first step in the construction process of a house; compare, for example, verses 551–561 of the account of the construction of E-ninnu:

He stretched out lines in the most perfect way; he set up (?) a sanctuary in the holy uzga. In the house, Enki drove in the foundation pegs, while
, the daughter of Eridu, took care of the oracular messages. The mother of
, holy Gatumdug, gave birth to its bricks amid cries (?), and Bau, the lady, first-born daughter of An, sprinkled them with oil and cedar essence. En and lagar priests were detailed to the house to provide maintenance for it. The Anuna gods stood there full of admiration.

Temen has been occasionally compared to Greek temenos "holy precinct", but since the latter has a well established Indo-European etymology (see temple), the comparison is either mistaken, or at best describes a case of popular etymology or convergence.

In E-temen-an-ki, "the temple of the foundation (pegs) of heaven and earth", temen has been taken to refer to an axis mundi connecting earth to heaven (thus re-enforcing the Tower of Babel connection), but the term re-appears in several other temple names, referring to their physical stability rather than, or as well as, to a mythological world axis; compare the Egyptian notion of Djed.

https://en.wikipedia...)

I'm not sure how 'well-established' it really is... Gk Linear B Mycenaean TE-ME-NO seems clearly related to TEMEN and they both are alluding to a 'marking out' of foundation pegs or strings or such to create a holy precinct. The word might not be IE at all but entered the Greek language as they began temple (temenos) building in the Aegean.

I'm starting to think these early 'temples' were actually clocks or timepieces or at least set out according to some movement of stars or Sun, or the axis they mention, turning the Earth around, creating time. Time seems an ancient concept and word. When these temples or 'foundation pegs' fell, time changed. I can see this in Timaeus and Plato's story, the fall of man coincides with Atlantis sinking, this is chaos, presented by him in Pythagorean terms of harmony, you can see this in his ratios.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Possibly Abe. I see it like I have an explanation of Texland/Tessell, a name that is originally Frisian, with a Frisian etymology that once time went on and the Frisians became smaller as the Dutch rose, names in areas became a Dutch etymology and a slight language change through natural sound shifts, like x left the scene for ss where Texel became Tessell, from a Germanic tex/token etymology to a Tess/tassel, textile words through the Dutch language change.

We 'clearly' know what Nyhellenia means via the OLB, your later version may indeed be the later etymological version of it, once Romance languages (Walhas) and as such based Dutch languages and people became the more dominant.

In what way is my version of the etymology of Nehalennia 'later"? There are older (=older than the 19th century) etymologies, some fabricated soon after the discovery of the Nehalennia altars and statues.

I have read some made by a Dutch writer, Bilderdijk if I'm correct, and one of them was Nehalennia meaning "island". And a few hours ago I discovered that in Gaeilge (Irish Gealic) "na hilaon" (sp?) means "the island".

From what I have read the last months, the original language of the Frisii (not the later Germanic Frisians) may have been a Celtic one. Because of floodings and wars they left south, and most probably west to (Brittain and) Ireland, along with the Menapi and Chauci where they easily mingled with the Celtic population. I even consider (and others along with me) that the Fir Bolg of Irish legends were no one else but the Belgae.

As already mentioned years ago (by me) and a month or so ago by one of the newcomers to this thread, Avienus already said that the Druids ("Drasidae") of Gaul claimed that their people originally came from the other (north) side of the Rhine, from islands along the coast of the (North) Sea.

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Then you get TEME to cut (the larger form of time) into TEM PUS to cut smaller ie; measure time, (smaller form of time, like minutes)

Churches are associated with clocks, which symbolize trustworthiness.

Edited by Ell
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Gk Linear B Mycenaean TE-ME-NO seems clearly related to TEMEN and they both are alluding to a 'marking out' of foundation pegs or strings or such to create a holy precinct.

Marking out = writing?

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Marking out = writing?

I think it's possible yes.

The Sumerian E for temple is a cuneiform letter.

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In what way is my version of the etymology of Nehalennia 'later"? There are older (=older than the 19th century) etymologies, some fabricated soon after the discovery of the Nehalennia altars and statues.

I have read some made by a Dutch writer, Bilderdijk if I'm correct, and one of them was Nehalennia meaning "island". And a few hours ago I discovered that in Gaeilge (Irish Gealic) "na hilaon" (sp?) means "the island".

From what I have read the last months, the original language of the Frisii (not the later Germanic Frisians) may have been a Celtic one. Because of floodings and wars they left south, and most probably west to (Brittain and) Ireland, along with the Menapi and Chauci where they easily mingled with the Celtic population. I even consider (and others along with me) that the Fir Bolg of Irish legends were no one else but the Belgae.

As already mentioned years ago (by me) and a month or so ago by one of the newcomers to this thread, Avienus already said that the Druids ("Drasidae") of Gaul claimed that their people originally came from the other (north) side of the Rhine, from islands along the coast of the (North) Sea.

Hi Abe, I told you why in the post. Basically because the Latin that comes through French and often into Dutch, is not the same etymology as the seemingly earlier Fryan. The OLB gives us Nyhellenias etymology, any other etymology that derives from later languages are later etymologies is what I mean. You need to retread my post on Texel/Tessel. One is from token but the Dutch variation Tessel could come from tassel words simply because the older language and meaning gets lost within a new one. I'd have to retread your post and see exactly how I responded.

Edited by The Puzzler
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I have changed my mind about the Phrygians. I no longer consider them to be Frysians. They might be, but the only argument I have left is the etymological one and that in my opinion is insufficient evidence for the conclusion / hypothesis.

I'm not really gelling with the Fryan/Frisian/Phrygian thing either, more sufficient evidence is needed for me also.

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Although I follow this thread from time to time for years now, I have not post anything. But I like to ask something, especially the 'believers'.

It seems that a lot of you follow everything that is written about the OLB, but the book of Philippus Breuker, (Opkomst en bloei van het Friese nationalisme 1740-1875) is not mentioned once. And it is quite remarkable what he has to add to the OLB-literature.

In short, he criticises the thesis of Goffe Jensma that Francois Haverschmidt is the autoris intellectualis en gives arguments why Eelco Verwijs should be given this role. Mainly because the themes that Eelco Verwijs expresses in lectures and the books he was reading at the time (early 1860ies), are also main themes in the OLB. (to give one example: the hot 19th century debate of the development of indo-european languages.)

But not only that, he also studied the books that Verwijs left to the university library of Leiden. In this way he could see the topics Verwijs interested at some point. He even found written strokes at passages that are relevant to main themes of the OLB.

In historiographical terms: this comes close to 'caught red-handed'.

I mentioned this in the response on the blogs of one the topic-members and he even let the response through.

What do you think about this thing and why hasn't anyone of you noticed this?

Edited by Demiurg
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