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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]


Abramelin
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1912 "Aanvulling van de Brochure Beweerd, maar niet bewezen", by Leendert F. Over de Linden

A funny and instructive fragment from this brochure, by W.M. Visser (p.24, my translation):

For the comparing and testing that we intend here, one must free oneself from earlier adopted ideas and beliefs, especially from prejudice or negative bias. That is essential!

An example may clarify this.

A captain of the cavalry once gave his sergeant a book about Greek history.

After reading it, the man returned the book, not very satisfied, remarking that it was quite strange, that those Greek gods, heroes and wise men all would have had horse names. He thought that was suspicious for people who would have lived hundreds of years ago, for how on earth could they have even known, let alone have had the names of the horses of his - of the captain's - squadron?

The man apparently thought it was a mystification. Mistakes like that are common.

Original Dutch text:

Voor ons hier bedoelde vergelijken en toetsen moet men zich losmaken van eenmaal aangenomen denkbeelden en opvattingen, vooral van vooroordeel of tegeningenomenheid. Dit is volstrekt noodig!

Een voorbeeld make onze bedoeling in deze duidelijk.

Een ritmeester bij de ruiterij, gaf eens aan zijn wachtmeester ter lezing een boek over de Grieksche geschiedenis.

Na het lezen gaf de man, niet zeer voldaan, het boek terug, met de opmerking dat toch al erg vreemd was, dat die grieksche Goden en helden en wijzen allemaal paardennamen zouden gehad hebben. Dat kwam hem verdacht voor bij menschen, die honderde jaren geleden zouden geleefd hebben, want hoe konden die in vredesnaam, de namen zelfs maar kennen, laat staan hebben gedragen van de paarden van zijn — des ritmeesters — eskadron?

Die man dacht blijkbaar aan een mystificatie. Zoo gaat 't trouwens meer.

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I have updated my translation into English of the sixth book of the Aeneid. One of the updates concerns the 'watch-star' mentioned a handful of times in the OLB. I have uploaded the latest version of the book to my Internet publisher.

During the next couple of days I hope to translate the added English text - several pages; mostly about Indian folklore - also into Dutch for the Dutch version. For the OLB part I will simply quote Ottema, of course.

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I have updated my translation into English of the sixth book of the Aeneid. One of the updates concerns the 'watch-star' mentioned a handful of times in the OLB. I have uploaded the latest version of the book to my Internet publisher.

Why don't you just give the pagenumbers of the OLB for everyone to read it for himself?

Edited by Demiurg
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I have updated my translation into English of the sixth book of the Aeneid. One of the updates concerns the 'watch-star' mentioned a handful of times in the OLB. I have uploaded the latest version of the book to my Internet publisher.

I just pass by and maybe missed some discussion on this (if there was some).

But I wonder if there is still somebody who goes along with the 'star' description/translation.

@Tony, why don't you give some comments on the used translation on your site and put in notes we are not talking about a 'star' here.

For me it is plain clear Star/Staer/Stair are coming from the word 'stei(g)her' -> that what goes up into the sky, hence a star (as stella, steil omhoog) but in the case of the "wâkstære" we are obvious talking about a stair(case) to gard the situation on the land from above. Besides the subject if OLB is genuine (whatever that may be in the minds of the reader) at least one can get some clues about the real practical side of etymology as language is meant to be.

Am I talking nonsense you think? But for me, I think this kind of 'fairy tale translations' (watch star ????) won't help to solve the puzzle.

What about you Ell, you think of lighthouse or something alike?

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I just pass by and maybe missed some discussion on this (if there was some).

But I wonder if there is still somebody who goes along with the 'star' description/translation.

@Tony, why don't you give some comments on the used translation on your site and put in notes we are not talking about a 'star' here.

For me it is plain clear Star/Staer/Stair are coming from the word 'stei(g)her' -> that what goes up into the sky, hence a star (as stella, steil omhoog) but in the case of the "wâkstære" we are obvious talking about a stair(case) to gard the situation on the land from above. Besides the subject if OLB is genuine (whatever that may be in the minds of the reader) at least one can get some clues about the real practical side of etymology as language is meant to be.

Am I talking nonsense you think? But for me, I think this kind of 'fairy tale translations' (watch star ????) won't help to solve the puzzle.

What about you Ell, you think of lighthouse or something alike?

Those are interesting ideas, Van Gorp.

This is what I wrote and quoted in the latest edition of my translation of Aeneid VI, which in my analysis describes the Underworld, a huge space habitat that would have looked like an extremely bright star - but which, according to one indication, occupied a geostationary position above Indonesia, so it would not have been visible from Europe:

In The Oera Linda Book – generally regarded as a hoax, but not by me – a watch-star is mentioned a handful of times. It is my impression that this concept refers to the Underworld.

Wiliam R. Sandbach, "The Oera Linda book" [1876], chapter "The book of Adela's followers":

“It was Frya's day, and seven times seven years had elapsed since Festa was appointed volksmoeder by the desire of Frya. The citadel of Medeasblik was ready, and a Burgtmaagd was chosen. Festa was about to light her new lamp, and when she had done so in the presence of all the people, Frya called from her watch-star, so that every one could hear it. ...

Yes, Finda! those were the fruits of your vanity. Look down from your watch-star and weep. ...

Wise Frya! When she had seen her children reach the seventh generation, she summoned them all to Flyland, and there gave them her Tex, saying, "Let this be your guide, and it can never go ill with you."

Exalted Frya! When she had thus spoken the earth shook like the sea of Wr-alda. The ground of Flyland sank beneath her feet, the air was dimmed by tears, and when they looked for their mother she was already risen to her watching star; then at length thunder burst from the clouds, and the lightning wrote upon the firmament "Watch!" “

Followed by my interpretation of these lines, which ought to be obvious to anyone from our space age: the lift off of a huge rocket or spaceshuttle.

Actually I did not discuss Frya calling from her watch-star. Obviously she was alife and therefore the watch-star was a genuine location in space and not a mystical fantasy place. The only place where someone can live in space in the near neighborhood of Earth is a space station - in this case the space habitat of the Underworld. And the only way to communicate between this space habitat and the OLB location on Earth is by radio and a public address system "so that every one could hear it".

Edited by Ell
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For me it is plain clear Star/Staer/Stair are coming from the word 'stei(g)her' -> that what goes up into the sky, hence a star (as stella, steil omhoog) ...

Am I talking nonsense you think?

No, you are not talking nonsense. It makes sense. This is what stars do: they go up in the sky - and down again. As the Earth revolves, stars come up above the horizon, rise to the zenith and descend again to disappear below the other horizon - except for the circumpolar stars, which are always visible on the northern hemisphere.

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Every once in a while, we make a nice discovery in the OLB. Yesterday, I found an improvement to all existing Dutch translations and to the English one by Sandbach.

The only one who had it correct before me, was Apol (Hans Olav Lien), but I think he was not aware of his improvement of the existing translations, since he did not make a note of it, which he usually does. The reason why he made the only correct translation so far, is that the word still exists in Norse and, as I found, also in Afrikaans (Dutch South African). It means to rush, move quickly, flee instead of slowly (!) and is derived from (moving like a) pijl (arrow). Arrow in OLB is PIL (see here).

This is the fragment and the word is PILATH (verb):

[129/23]

THACH NÉI THAT WI TWA DÉGA FORTH PILATH HÉDE

PILATH_p129.jpg

DUTCH

Ottema (1876) p.177

Doch na dat wij twee dagen voort gesukkeld hadden (plodded on/along)

Overwijn (1951)

Maar nadat wij twee dagen hadden voortgesukkeld

Jensma (2006)

Maar nadat wij twee dagen voortgepield* hadden

(*apparently from Newfrisian piele = to be busy)

De Heer (2008)

Echter, nadat wij twee dagen voorts gepield hadden

ENGLISH

Sandbach (1876) p.177

but after two days' slow sailing

Raubenheimer (2011): as Sandbach

Lien (2016)

But after we had hurried on for two days

(NORSE: Men etter at vi hadde pilt videre i to dager)

GERMAN

Wirth (1933): left whole part out

Menkens (2013)

Doch nachdem wir zwei Tage weiter gesegelt/gepilgert waren (sailed/ made a pilgrimage?!)

SOURCES

my Norse-Dutch pocket dictionary (Prisma 2010):

pile
: snellen, vliegen (to rush, fly)

Also see: https://no.wiktionary.org/wiki/pile

pijlen

G.J. van Wyk (2003), Etimologiewoordeboek van Afrikaans, Stellenbosch (incl. Supplement uit 2007)

pyl ww.

Reguit, vinnig beweeg. (move quickly, straight)

Uit gewestelike Ndl. pijlen. Ndl. pijlen is jonger as pijl, en die ww. sou oorspr. aangedui het dat iets so reguit en vinnig soos 'n afgeskiete pyl beweeg.

DISCUSSION

If OLB would be a forgery, why would its creator not have used a word from known Old Frisian or Old Dutch? Is it likely that he would have known the South African or Norse (Danish?) word? Of course, sceptics may say: yes he probably knew the word and used it to add to the illusion of authenticity, or: it may have been a co-incidence. But we have seen more examples of words that only in this thread of the last few years became clarified. It just makes no sense to me that someone would make such an effort, using a seemingly endless talent, to create something this complicated, without a clear goal.

Question to FromFinland or Apol: do you know if this word is still known in other Scandinavian languages and if it was listed in old dictionaries?

Edited by Othar
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Good find, Othar.

My contribution: I suspect that the Dutch verb 'ijlen' and the associated adverb 'ijlings' are etymologically related to pile / pilath. I do not sense that the 'p' was lost during the ages, so I rather suspect that 'p-ile' is a compound word and that the verb ile / ila existed before the 'pijl' (arrow) was invented.

I also notice that 'ijlen' appears to be associated with the air and wind; 'De wolken ijlen langs de hemel' (The clouds hurry across the sky), 'ijle wolken' (windswept - cirrus - clouds) . 'Air' itself might be etymologically related to ile - air is 'ijl' (very thin) - as likely does 'aile" (wing). 'Sail' might also be a compound word: 's-ail'; a sail might be regarded as a wing; perchance a contraction of 'se-ail' (sea-wing)?

Swedish also has 'ila' = spoeden, ijlen = to go quickly, to hurry. (It also has ilbud, ilgods and iltaag.)

There likely is also an etymological relationship with the Latin 'velum' (sail).

And of course there is the English 'velocity'.

Edited by Ell
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The only one who had it correct before me, was Apol (Hans Olav Lien), but I think he was not aware of his improvement of the existing translations, since he did not make a note of it, which he usually does.

I rather suspect that it was so self-evident to him - and his readers - that he never considered that it required a note.

Edited by Ell
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In Den Helder we say "Tessel".

Ell, since you live in Den Helder, could you try to find a photo of Leendert Floris Over de Linden, owner of the manuscript from 1874 to 1919? Since he worked (as 'griffier') for the Royal Navy there, the Marinemuseum might have one.

(V-15) Leendert Floris OVER DE LINDEN, son of (IV-9), born 17-3-1837 Den Helder, teacher, later working (klerk) for Navy and city of Den Helder respectively, died 7-1-1919 Den Helder;

married (1st) 26-4-1863 Schagen to:

Jantje DE ROOIJ, born 14-1-1837, Schagen, daughter of Albertus de Rooij (born ca.1810 Alkmaar, died 10-2-1864 Schagen, teacher, son of Hendrik de Rooij and Suzanne Koot), and Antje Walig (born 11-4-1814 Schagen, died before 1841 Schagen, daughter of Simon Walig and Jantje Reins Swaal);

married (2nd) to:

R. KOOIMAN, born ca.1817, died 1-12-1893 (grave in Den Helder), daughter of ?

no children

fragment from genealogy

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It means to rush, move quickly, flee instead of slowly (!) and is derived from (moving like a) pijl (arrow). Arrow in OLB is PIL (see here).

[...]

Question to FromFinland or Apol: do you know if this word is still known in other Scandinavian languages and if it was listed in old dictionaries?

I'm happy to tell that yes, the word is also contained in the Finnish language. Pillastua means for a horse to flee in panic or to bolt, but can also mean figuratively for a human to get mad. Interestingly the term includes word astua 'to step' also within it: pill-astua. In Finnish language that means both to take a step and also in agraric context for a horse to breed. In folk language you do find the prefix pi also from the words referring to human male and female genitalia. The prefix pi can also be found from other words, like pikainen 'quick' and pikaposti or 'express mail'.

My 1942 copy of Kanteletar gives the following etymology, as commented in by the famous researcher Julius Krohn:

Pillastua, [book] II: [poem] 345, to get furious (Lönnrot, E. 1840. Kanteletar. Helsinki: Finnish Literature Society. 10th print from 1942. Page 358. World explanations by Krohn, J.)

Licentiate of philosophy Raimo Jussila shares the following in his "Kalevala Dictionary":

piili (2) arrow. Carved a pile of arrows [piiliä], a heap of three feathered ones: shafts stretch from oak, tips from resin wood. 6:47.

pillastua (2) to bolt (Jussila R. 2009. Kalevalan sanakirja. Keuruu: Otava. Pages 284, 286.)

I note that in Finnish language the prefix pi can be related not just to hurry (pikainen) but to spoiling (pilata), to rape or to ruin (pillamus). There may be a etymological connection between the two similar sounding meanings, for in my language there are many folk sayings about how in a hurry one gets weak results. This seems to tie up with the pill-astua as seen above. The idea survives also in the English language.

My comment: many of the Finnish pi-words above sound very archaic. I wasn't even aware of the piili word before I checked it from the dictionary above and double-checked it from the online database of Ancient Poems of the Finnish People. For example, the word is used in a heathen poem about the Väinämöinen (or Odin of the Scandinavians) sung by Jyrki Kettunen in 1834.

Edit: it dawned upon me that mr. Bock of the bilingual Väinämöinen's mythology fame did write on this very word in his 1996 book. I'll share it here, as the story is a bit similar to Oera Linda book and the etymology contained therein is allegedly of primaeval Aesir origins. He also notes it as having a meaning related to human anatomy (24-25); to a bow, quiver and infantry (32-33, 44). An arrow (Fenno-Swedish pil) is specifically mentioned as symbol of a breeder (44). Etymology of the word is given as pi - 'circle' and l - 'law' (19, 25). I didn't find direct examples related to speed or hurrying as such, though the general context ties up to some degree with the Finnish language as per what I wrote above.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

As for the 2006 report shared by Abramelin and brough up into discussion by Demiurg, I've began to study it, but due to university work haven't finished my reading of it yet. I'll eventually report back here what I found.

Edited by FromFinland
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Apol (Hans Olav Lien)

When I noticed today that Hans Olav's website is offline, I checked his Facebook page and found out that he suddenly and unexpectedly has died on March 6th, aged 61...

Two weeks earlier, I had still corresponded with him.

I want to thank him for all his OLB research, contributions to the discussion and translations (a.o. the Norse version of my videos) and wish his nearest and dearest well.

I hope that his life's work will be made available again.

429061_461765240538387_1252144164_n.jpg?oh=c57ad071f97884de8c36ff309c9ec403&oe=57B8C557

Edited by Othar
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That pi would mean a 'circle' in the ancient Fenno-Swedish, this may be connected to the idea of round shape of wheel, as in a chariot wheel, wagon wheel or cart wheel. Those in turn do have a thematic connection to movement, speed and horses.

Lemminkäinen [i. e. Balder] [...] had special symbols as his marks and decorations. [...] Lemminkäinen has [...] an arrow,
pil
, a quiver,
pilbåge
and a straight sword.

[...]

Yule was the feast of sun and to it belonged yule morning, yule day and yule evening, that is 'wheel morning', 'wheel day' and 'wheel evening'. Wheel referred to sun and Lemminkäinen represented the fertilising sun like his elders Ukko and Akka. In this way the three figures represented sunwheel, lifewheel or
livshjulet
. (Bock 1996, 32, 78)

While this may be a stretch from the point of Oera Linda book and overall a side issue, I do note a strong internal consistency in this story and its etymology. Either it's A. very carefully made up faketymology of the 1980s or B. reflects some genuine primaeval etymology and is thus of possible use for Oera Linda studies. Let's not forget that according to authors of Wikipedia, with my bolding:

"some [traits of Finland Swedish]
are in fact preserved features of old Swedish
, as with Scots in comparison to English,
Afrikaans in comparison to Dutch
, or Galician and Brazilian and African dialects in comparison to modern mainland European Portuguese." (
)
Edited by FromFinland
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I'm sorry to hear that. I had a short exchange of messages with him earlier and found him a fine fellow researcher.

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Ell, since you live in Den Helder, could you try to find a photo of Leendert Floris Over de Linden, owner of the manuscript from 1874 to 1919? Since he worked (as 'griffier') for the Royal Navy there, the Marinemuseum might have one.

I live in Amsterdam, but I was born in Den Helder. I can - and will - certainly look for such a photo in either city. I seem to recall that there also lived relatives in Amsterdam.

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When I noticed today that Hans Olav's website is offline, I checked his Facebook page and found out that he suddenly and unexpectedly has died on March 6th, aged 61...

Two weeks earlier, I had still corresponded with him.

I want to thank him for all his OLB research, contributions to the discussion and translations (a.o. the Norse version of my videos) and wish his nearest and dearest well.

I hope that his life's work will be made available again.

429061_461765240538387_1252144164_n.jpg?oh=c57ad071f97884de8c36ff309c9ec403&oe=57B8C557

I did not know him well, though I have read some of his posts.

It is a shock and a loss. He was one of us and his expertise will be missed.

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Pillastua means for a horse to flee in panic or to bolt, but can also mean figuratively for a human to get mad. Interestingly the term includes word astua 'to step' also within it: pill-astua. In Finnish language that means both to take a step and also in agraric context for a horse to breed. In folk language you do find the prefix pi also from the words referring to human male and female genitalia. The prefix pi can also be found from other words, like pikainen 'quick' and pikaposti or 'express mail'.

My 1942 copy of Kanteletar gives the following etymology, as commented in by the famous researcher Julius Krohn:

Licentiate of philosophy Raimo Jussila shares the following in his "Kalevala Dictionary":

I note that in Finnish language the prefix pi can be related not just to hurry (pikainen) but to spoiling (pilata), to rape or to ruin (pillamus). There may be a etymological connection between the two similar sounding meanings, for in my language there are many folk sayings about how in a hurry one gets weak results. This seems to tie up with the pill-astua as seen above. The idea survives also in the English language.

My comment: many of the Finnish pi-words above sound very archaic. I wasn't even aware of the piili word before I checked it from the dictionary above and double-checked it from the online database of Ancient Poems of the Finnish People. For example, the word is used in a heathen poem about the Väinämöinen (or Odin of the Scandinavians) sung by Jyrki Kettunen in 1834.

Edit: it dawned upon me that mr. Bock of the bilingual Väinämöinen's mythology fame did write on this very word in his 1996 book. I'll share it here, as the story is a bit similar to Oera Linda book and the etymology contained therein is allegedly of primaeval Aesir origins. He also notes it as having a meaning related to human anatomy (24-25); to a bow, quiver and infantry (32-33, 44). An arrow (Fenno-Swedish pil) is specifically mentioned as symbol of a breeder (44). Etymology of the word is given as pi - 'circle' and l - 'law' (19, 25). I didn't find direct examples related to speed or hurrying as such, though the general context ties up to some degree with the Finnish language as per what I wrote above.

Very interesting, FF.

There certainly appears to be a sexual association with 'pi'. This Aryan root means 'to swell, or to be fat', which obviously refers to a penis in erection.

The Aryan root 'pu' means 'to beget, to produce', and the Aryan root 'pik' means 'to prick, to deck.' In Dutch we have the verb 'dekken' with the completely different meaning - as to the English 'to deck' - of 'to breed'.

Intercourse might be hurriedly.

In Latin we have 'pilum' (pestle, pistil, spear).and 'pila' (ball), which latter might of course refer to a male testicle. However, 'pila' also means pilar (pillar). To pillage was likely to include rape, i.e. to spoil the honor of a female.

An arrow (pijl) may also be called a 'bolt'.

In Dutch we have 'pik' and 'pie-mel' for a penis. And in German I seem to recall 'pipi'?

For 'father' the Swedes have 'pappa, pippi, pipping' and the Dutch have papa as well.

Of course there is also a relationship with names like Puck / Puk (which refer to Zwarte Piet archetypes).

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Indeed very sad news about Apol..... I also had no direct contact with him , but from our OBL pages , and his comments plus reading his Blog he seemed a very pleasant and knowledgeable person , his photos also make him look very fit and healthy .....so it must come as a shock to his relatives , to whom i offer my condolences ..... it would be a great shame if his work on OLB was lost.......he had also mentioned at one time that he had done some extensive work on the discovery of America... i wish i had asked him more about his findings on this subject also ........ A great pity for us and his loved ones to have lost him.

Edited by Passing Time
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Thanks Othar (Jan) .....and congrats on your broadcast on Red Ice Radio. you should post a link , or did i miss it ?

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Thanks PT, yes I posted a link. It has resulted in some great contacts thus far...

~ ~ ~

Again, here is an improvement (i.m.o.) of the existing translations.

[130/25]

THÉR WÉRON GRÁTE MARA THÉR FON THA BODEME LIK.EN BLÉS VT.SETTA.

Sandbach p.179

There were great lakes which rose from the earth like bubbles,

Ottema translated as "meren" (lakes) and so did all other translators that I know of. (Wirth: "Seen"; Lien "innsjøer".)

But "maar" also means crater, which makes more sense in the context:

A maar is a broad, low-relief volcanic crater caused by a phreatomagmatic eruption (an explosion which occurs when groundwater comes into contact with hot lava or magma). A maar characteristically fills with water to form a relatively shallow crater lake which may also be called a maar. The name comes from the local Moselle Franconian dialect of Daun in the Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany, ...
Wiki

The same word is used in German, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Norse and it does not seem to be clear how old the word is.

Edited by Othar
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That is very sad news about Apol indeed. It only seems like a few weeks ago that he and I were discussing the layout of the burghs. This thread, that we're all privileged to be part of, is very unusual on the Internet, in that we all know each other's names and can relate to each other as real people. We don't always agree, and this is a good thing, because it stimulates an advancement of knowledge. I think this is truly the only place online that OLB researchers, of whom there are so few, can talk, argue, and share our research. Apol was one of these, and he will be sadly missed.

Jes ferhemande athe, thusande send al kumen aend jet mara send vp wei.

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