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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]


Abramelin
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Earlier we discussed BROK.MANNA which was not translated nor interpreted by Ottema and Sandbach

BROK.MANNA does not have to refer to:

1. marshy lands where they might have lived or have come from (as the word BROK used elsewhere in OLB suggests),

2. De Grave's "Brakmannen" or Brahmanen (as Jensma suggests),

3. the Frisian verb brükmen (to use),

4. the inhabitants of Brokmerland (coastal East Friesland; both suggested by Van der Meij),

but it can refer to the English verb "brook", which can mean cohabit with or tolerate (see below).

This would make more sense in the context, since they were the people from Punjab and the Mediterranean who were allowed to resettle in Fryasland (not only in marshy lands), ca. 300 BCE.

Relevant fragments

[079/05]

ALSA IS ÁTHÉNJA WRDON É.LIK EN BROKLAND ANDA HÉTE LANDA

[O-S p.109]

Zoo is Athene geworden, gelijk een moeras in de heete landen

Such is Athens become, like a morass in a tropical country

(Jensma: "broekland", in footnote explained as marsh, swampy land)

[117/12]

THRVCHDAM ET THÉRBUTA AL SLYP ÀND BROKLÁND WÉRE

[O-S p.161]

omdat het daar buiten alles slib en broekland was

as outside there was nothing but mud and marsh

(Jensma: "slib- en broekland")

[131/28]

THA LÉKA ÀND BRÉKA THÉR THA BROK.MANNA MITHBROCHT HÀVE

[O-S p.179]

de leken en gebreken, die de Brokmannen medegebracht hebben

the faults and misdeeds that the Brokmannen have brought with them

(Jensma: "Broekmannen", in footnote referring to discussion in "Gemaskerde God" p.83-84, where he refers to Van der Meij (1978) p.78-79 and 185)

[143/23]

WAS.T ÔRE LÁND THÀT BÛTA THA HRING.DIK LÉID. AL POL ÀND BROK

[O-S p.195]

was het andere land, dat buiten den ringdijk ligt, alles poel en broek

there was a portion of land lying outside the rampart all mud and marsh

(Jensma: "poel en broek")

broek 2 zn. ‘laag gelegen moerassig land’ - Onl. bruoc, brōk in de plaatsnamen Brokhem (...) en Bruocsella ‘Brussel’ [...]; mnl. bruec ‘moeras’ [...], broec [...], brouck.

De herkomst van dit alleen in West-Germaans gebied overgeleverde woord is onduidelijk.

Mnd. brok ‘moerasland’ (nnd. brok); ohd. bruoh ‘moerasland’ (nhd. Bruch); ofri. brōk ‘moeras’ (nfri. broek); oe. brōc ‘stortvloed, rivier, beek’ (ne. brook ‘beek’).

source

Also see here

brook (v.) "to endure," Old English brucan "use, enjoy, possess; eat; cohabit with," [...] (cognates: Old Saxon brukan, Old Frisian bruka, Old High German bruhhan, German brauchen "to use," Gothic brukjan), [...] (cognates: Latin fructus). Sense of "use" applied to food led to "be able to digest," and by 16c. to "tolerate."

source

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Earlier we discussed BROK.MANNA

Cannot it simply mean 'broekmannen' (trousers people)? I do notice that a pair of trousers is a pair of cohabiting pipes / trousers).

A brokland might be communal property?

Aryan roots yield 'prak' = to plait, weave, fold together. Thus it might refer to females?

This gives an entirely different etymology for 'woman' (womb-man) as b( r )ok-man changing into wok-man changing into woman.

I am charmed by this solution. So I ask you to consider this etymology for brok.manna, Othar.

Females one cohabits with: wives.

Edited by Ell
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Cannot it simply mean 'broekmannen' (trousers people)?

That would make sense if they were horse riders.

But BREC in Hettema's Old Frisian dictionary means both broek (trousers) and breuk (break) or something that is broken, the verb BRECA to break, divide, forfeit.

OLB has BRÉK for break. The relation of brék/ brec (trousers) with the verb to divide makes sense.

Also see here

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David Hidajattoellah tells me that in Sranan Tongo, a language spoken in Surinam, 'broko' means 'lake, river, net'. I do not know if it is an indigenous word, or whether it is a loan word from the English.

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the word still exists in Norse and, as I found, also in Afrikaans (Dutch South African). It means to rush, move quickly, flee instead of slowly (!) and is derived from (moving like a) pijl (arrow). Arrow in OLB is PIL (see here).

This is the fragment and the word is PILATH (verb):

...

Question to FromFinland or Apol: do you know if this word is still known in other Scandinavian languages and if it was listed in old dictionaries?

The English word 'willy' (penis) must also be etymologically related to pile / pilath.

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Earlier we discussed BROK.MANNA which was not translated nor interpreted by Ottema and Sandbach

BROK.MANNA does not have to refer to:

1. marshy lands where they might have lived or have come from (as the word BROK used elsewhere in OLB suggests),

2. De Grave's "Brakmannen" or Brahmanen (as Jensma suggests),

3. the Frisian verb brükmen (to use),

4. the inhabitants of Brokmerland (coastal East Friesland; both suggested by Van der Meij),

but it can refer to the English verb "brook", which can mean cohabit with or tolerate (see below).

This would make more sense in the context, since they were the people from Punjab and the Mediterranean who were allowed to resettle in Fryasland (not only in marshy lands), ca. 300 BCE.

Relevant fragments

[079/05]

ALSA IS ÁTHÉNJA WRDON É.LIK EN BROKLAND ANDA HÉTE LANDA

[O-S p.109]

Zoo is Athene geworden, gelijk een moeras in de heete landen

Such is Athens become, like a morass in a tropical country

(Jensma: "broekland", in footnote explained as marsh, swampy land)

[117/12]

THRVCHDAM ET THÉRBUTA AL SLYP ÀND BROKLÁND WÉRE

[O-S p.161]

omdat het daar buiten alles slib en broekland was

as outside there was nothing but mud and marsh

(Jensma: "slib- en broekland")

[131/28]

THA LÉKA ÀND BRÉKA THÉR THA BROK.MANNA MITHBROCHT HÀVE

[O-S p.179]

de leken en gebreken, die de Brokmannen medegebracht hebben

the faults and misdeeds that the Brokmannen have brought with them

(Jensma: "Broekmannen", in footnote referring to discussion in "Gemaskerde God" p.83-84, where he refers to Van der Meij (1978) p.78-79 and 185)

[143/23]

WAS.T ÔRE LÁND THÀT BÛTA THA HRING.DIK LÉID. AL POL ÀND BROK

[O-S p.195]

was het andere land, dat buiten den ringdijk ligt, alles poel en broek

there was a portion of land lying outside the rampart all mud and marsh

(Jensma: "poel en broek")

source

Also see here

source

Really interesting. I would also think about "bruikland", as in "bruikleen".

For me there is a connection between all these different usages in meaning.

I still think the root is coming from "breken" (to divide or to share, breaking the bread).

In Dutch the different pronounciations are still there when saying "Een been dat breekt is gebroken en daarmee heb je een breuk".

Breuk is also the mathematical act of dividing. So I don't find it strange that land giving to be used for is called bruikland.

Bruiken as root for ge-bruiken comes imo from the same root "breken". Becasue if you take use of something you take a part of it.

Brokmannen could than be regarded as being tolerated, but also as the "bruikmannen" van het "bruikland".

A marshy brook (broekland) is indeed just one of these applications (half water half land, half salt half sweet -> brak water).

It is not this not that, and on top very well possible that many "broeklanden" are not really by definition marshy lands but just land given to cultivate (bruik-land).

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I just noticed that Alewyn Raubenheimer in his 2011 edition of "Survivors of the Great Tsunami" translated BROK.MANNA as "refugees", with added footnote:

"Brokmanne" lit. "Broken (away) People."

Did not want to leave that unmentioned.

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I just noticed that Alewyn Raubenheimer in his 2011 edition of "Survivors of the Great Tsunami" translated BROK.MANNA as "refugees", with added footnote:

Did not want to leave that unmentioned.

I have now read the context. I agree with his conclusion.

Aryan root supplies 'prat (plat)' = to spread out, extend. So 'brok.manna' might mean 'dispersed people'.

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Hi Othar, the source, or rather one of many, can be found here: https://en.wikipedia...lsburg#SS_plans

The largest circle is 1270 metres in diameter (about 4/5 of a mile).

The apex of the triangle points north, and marks the exact location of the north tower.

A more detailed map was sent to me by a reader of my blog:

Wewelsburg.jpg

Edited by Othar
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Well, actually it was yours :-)

But I sense from this response you haven't seen it.

I found it now. Didn't know that there was a waiting list for messages "to be moderated". I'll see if I can turn that off again. Anyway, it is published now.

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Every once in a while, we make a nice discovery in the OLB. Yesterday, I found an improvement to all existing Dutch translations and to the English one by Sandbach. The only one who had it correct before me, was Apol (Hans Olav Lien), ...

I found one more example where Hans Olav Lien corrected all previous translations (that I know of). HÉLÉNA in the fragment below was always translated as a personal name, but the exact same word is used only once more, as a verb, meaning to heal/ repair/ make whole. The name Helena is never spelled like this. In the "writings of Hellenia" that follow, it is spelled HEL.LÉNJA.

helenabok.jpg

[134/5]

THET BOK THÉRA SANGA. THÉRA TELLINGA ÀND THET HÉLÉNA BOK

[Ottema-Sandbach (1876), p.183]

het boek der zangen, het boek der verhalen en het Hellenia boek

the book of songs, the book of narratives, and the Hellenia book

Wirth (1933)

das Buch der Gesänge, das Buch der Erzählungen und das Helenja-Buch.

Overwijn (1951)

het liederenboek, het vertellingenboek en het Helleniaboek

Jensma (2006)

het boek van de zangen, van de vertellingen en het Helleniaboek*

(* in footnotes, Jensma theorises that "Hellenia" might refer to Nyhellenia, he does not think that it refers to the "SKRIFTA HEL.LÉNJA.S" that follow)

De Heer (2008)

het boek der gezangen, der vertellingen en het Helleniaboek

Raubenheimer (2011)

the book of songs, the book of tales, and the Helenia book

Menkens (2013)

das Buch der Gesänge, der Erzählungen und das Helenja-Buch

!!! Lien (2015)

Sangboka, Fortellings- og Lege boka (doctor's or healing book)

Other fragment with HÉLÉNA:

[025/15]

SAHWERSA ORLOCH KVMTH ÀND THÉR WRDE HUSA HOMLJAT JEFTHA SKÉPA

HOK THAT ET SY SY.ET THRVCH THENE FYAND THA BY MÉNA RÉDUM.

SA ACH THA MÉNA MÉNTA THÀT IS AL.ET FOLK TO SÉMNE

THAT WITHER TO HÉLÉNA. THÉR VMBE THAT NÀMMAN

THA MÉNA SÉKA SKIL HELPA VRLJASA VMBE SIN ÀJN GOD TO BIHALDANE.

[sandbach p.39]

Whenever in time of war either ships or houses are destroyed,

either by the enemy or as a matter of precaution,

a general levy shall be assessed on the people

to make it good [i.e. to repair it] again, so that no one

may neglect the general welfare to preserve his own interest.

Some related words:

[003/28]

JVW HÉLENA FJA - your healthy cattle

[017/15]

THA LÉTSA. THÀT IS THENE HÉLENER - the "létsa", that is the healer

[083/01]

HÉL ÀND BÉTER - whole (healthy) and better

[108/21]

SÉDKUNDA KRÛDKUNDA HÉLKUNDA - practice of ethics, herbs and healing

[195/24]

HÉL.HÛDIS - unscathed: with whole skin (Dutch: heelhuids)

In current related languages:

to heal - english

heilen - german

helen - dutch

hielje, heelje - frisian

helbrede - norse, danish

Hildegard-1533-0star3r.jpg

from Physicas Hildegardis (1533), the book of medical remedies by Hildegard von Bingen (1098-1179)

Edited by Othar
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<p>

That would make sense if they were horse riders.

But BREC in Hettema's Old Frisian dictionary means both broek (trousers) and breuk (break) or something that is broken, the verb BRECA to break, divide, forfeit.

OLB has BRÉK for break. The relation of brék/ brec (trousers) with the verb to divide makes sense.

Also see here

Here you have the word Breakfast , which used to be spelled Brekfast , the first meal after sunrise , when you are

breaking the fast , from Sunset to sunrise .

The Scottish word for short legged trousers is Breeks,

Edited by Passing Time
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In the beginning of the Oera Linda book is the letter of Liko, my bolding:

Beloved successors, for the sake of our dear forefathers, and of our dear liberty, I entreat you a thousand times never let the eye of
a monk
look on these writings. They are very insinuating, but they destroy in an underhand manner all that relates to us Frisians.
In order to gain rich benefices, they conspire with foreign kings, who know that we are their greatest enemies, because we dare to speak to their people of liberty, rights, and the duties of princes.
Therefore they seek to destroy all that we derive from our forefathers, and all that is left of our old customs.

Ah, my beloved ones! I have visited their courts! If Wr-alda permits it, and we do not shew ourselves strong to resist, they will altogether exterminate us.

Liko, surnamed OVER DE LINDA.

Written at Liudwert,

Anno Domini 803.

Let's have a closer look:

#1. "In order to gain rich benefices, they conspire with foreign kings, who know that we are their greatest enemies"

In the late 700s and early 800s Frisia was part of the Christian Frankish Empire. So the "foreign kings" would refer in 803 directly to Franks and namely to Charles the Younger, who was busy fighting the Bretons, Saxons and more eastern peoples. It was only a decade from the last general Frisian pagan revolt. For much of time in the 700s the neighbouring part of Frankish kingdom to Frisia was called Austrasia, which had a very noteworthy issue with their Frankish priests:

The Concilium Germanicum was the first major Church synod to be held in the eastern parts of the Frankish kingdoms. It was called by Carloman on 21 April 742/743 at an unknown location, and presided over by Boniface, who was solidified in his position as leader of the Austrasian church. [...]

He outlines three main problems in a letter written early in 742 to the newly elected Pope Zachary:

Church regulations (esp. in regard to property) had been disregarded for six decades or more
;

There had been no church synods for at least eighty years;

There were no archbishops in the Frankish church, and
bishops
(many without a fixed see)
and priests were only interested in the material benefits of the office, stealing church property and living worldly lifestyles, which included living with concubines, drinking, and hunting.
[...]

Boniface succeeded in having stricter guidelines adopted, but
the effort to re-appropriate church property was thwarted by bishops and nobility alike
. [...]

Church historian Matthias Schuler, commenting on Boniface's failure to have church property returned to the church, proposes that the time was not yet ripe for Carloman to re-appropriate those
properties, which had often been handed (by way of church offices) to various noblemen by his father, Charles Martel, to appease them and strengthen their loyalty.
Re-appropriation would have led to widespread anger and distaste for the reform movement. (Source: Wikipedia on
.)

Replace 'foreign kings' with 'nobility', 'noblemen' and 'Charles Martel' and you have a perfect match. If we are to take both sources at face value, it would mean that the mid-700s Frankish church problems were still an issue in the very early 800s in the Frisian areas. We can also ponder of what origin were these monks and priests. According to authors of Wikipedia:

By 630 the situation had changed. The Merovingian king Dagobert I brought the Frankish empire under one banner again and conquered the lands south of the Oude Rijn. This time they brought Christianity to the Frisian lands and built a church in Utrecht. [...]

In any case there was an Archbishopric or bishopric of the Frisians founded for Willibrord [...]

The first Frisian bishop Boniface set out for Frisia in 754 with a small retinue. (Source: Wikipedia on
.)

This information would put the Christians missionaries as French Franks, English and with a later small effort by turned native Frisians. Professor John Tolkien - a Christian - had this to share on the topic:

Glancing back to an earlier period – 300 years nearer to the time of Finn – we may mention the suggestively casual allusion in Bede's
Historia Ecclesiastica
. In Book IV Chap. xx (xxii)11 we hear of the thegn Imma wounded and left for dead in the battle of the Trent between his lord Ecgfrith, king of Norhumbria, and Æthelred of Mercia. He fell eventually into the hands of one king Æthelred's
gesiÞas
, and when healed was sold
to a certain Frisian in London
.12 The battle was fought in the year 679. The presence of a wealthy Frisian, so casually mentioned, in London, able to buy up slaves produced by internecine wars of the English, is interesting, especially since
the date 679 closely corresponds to the beginning of missionary enterprise in Frisia. It is significant that the continental missions
– one of the chief glories of ancient England, and one of our chief services to Europe even regarding all our history –
began
with Frisia.
Charity began at home and spread next to closest cousins. The conversion was largely done by St Willibrod and the Northumbrians in the early eight century.

11 Plummer,
Bede
, i 249–51.

12
Ut ergo canualuit, uendidit eum Lundoniam Freso cuidam
(p. 251). (Source: J. R. R. Tolkien,
Finn and Hengest
, edited by Alan Bliss, HarperCollins
Publishers
1998, page 14.)

#2. "Therefore they seek to destroy all that we derive from our forefathers, and all that is left of our old customs."

We know what the Christian missionaries taught for the nearby Saxons in the 700s and 800s, so it was likely the same for the Frisians too:

And I
renounce all the deeds and words of
the devil, Thunear [Thor],
Wôden
and Saxnôt, and
all those fiends that are their companions
(Source Wikipedia on
.)

Talk about demonising one's own ancestors, eh? I wonder if it was the same litany for Anglo-Saxon nobles, Norwegians and other who claimed actual descent from Odin. We can speculate then that what would the Frisians been taught to renounce. One could theorize it would have included the Wodin story of Oera Linda book:

From this expedition the history of Wodin sprang, which is inscribed on the citadels, and is here copied. (Source: Oera Linda book,
.)

Notice how the Oera Linda book calls it "the history of Wodin", as if acknowledging the greater importance of Wodin figure outside the Oera Linda story. Also the "deeds and words" of Wodin would possibly have come in the 800s from "the various families and tribes composing their nation", as told by mrs Guerber here, hence the "all that we derive from our forefathers". Overall I would say this part of the Oera Linda book matches closely both in it's theme and details the other literary sources available. Of these sources mr. Tolkien's take seems both illustrating and outright naïve regarding the behaviour of the church representatives.

Edited by FromFinland
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Accordingly this island, known as Forseti's land or Heligoland (holy land), was greatly respected by all the Northern nations, and even the boldest vikings refrained from raiding its shores

Likewise, in Finnish context Helsinki was founded upon Helsingeå and in Boxström saga Hel of South Finland was indeed a 'holy land' (hel = heliga, 'holy') where only the Finns of aser cultural background lived.

Heligoland ... Helsinki ... Hel ...

They all three must be identical with the Underworld, with the space habitat Hell.

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On 13 March 2014, Alewyn (Raubenheimer) wrote:

I just dropped in to tell those who may be interested that I recently published a revised edition of "Survivors of the Great Tsunami"; under the new title of "Chronicles from pre-Celtic Europe" on Amazon.com.

I was recently informed that only 6 weeks later, on April 30, 2014 - tomorrow exactly two years ago - Alewyn died.

His book (first edition) was what started this thread in 2010 (part 1) and he participated in it off and on.

In 2013 he made a journey through NW Europe, which inspired him to create a third and final edition.

For a while it was listed as out of print at Amazon, which made me assume that he was working on a new edition, but it is available again.

51MTM4X1%2BDL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

One of his most significant finds is the likeness of the ocean floor landscape around the Faroe Islands and "Frisland" as depicted on several old maps, which was believed to be fantasy, but will more likely have been copied from much older maps. (See here, password "zeno".)

From the website of his book:

author.jpg

Alewyn J Raubenheimer is a retired General Manager and Chief Mine Design Engineer from a large platinum mining company. He lives in Johannesburg, South Africa with his wife, Beulah. They have three children, a son-in-law, a daughter-in-law and twin grandsons. He is a member of the South African Archaeological Society.

His engineering background coupled with more than thirty years of experience in the geo-sciences and environmental assessments make him well qualified to write on the subject.

Subsequent to his retirement, he pursued his passion and interest in ancient civilizations and the causes of their demise from a natural sciences viewpoint.

Alewyn, I enjoyed our correspondence and would have loved to meet you in person. Your work is of great significance to both Oera Linda research and the study of ancient Europe in general. It will be more known and appreciated in Time.

xxr295.jpg

"The Triumph of Fame" by Maarten van Heemskerck (1565)

Edited by Ott
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Earlier I have written much on the Finns west of modern Finland, as told of in the Oera Linda book and spoken of in few old Norse sagas. Turns out somebody has written an extensive record of the same matter in Wikipedia, which is very nice as information of this sort was simply not easily available merely a couple of years ago when I myself searched for it. Please see for yourselves for possible use in the Oera Linda book research: here, here, here and here.

Be sure also to check the science news as shown in this forum's frontpage today:

Half of Western European men are descended from
one Bronze Age ‘king’ who sired a dynasty of elite nobles
which spread throughout Europe, a new study has shown.

[...]
we know that
a tiny number of elite males were controlling reproduction
and dominating the population.
(
)

Exactly such a society is described in Finnish Väinämöinen's mythology for Finland, Russia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Scotland, islands outside of Norway (presumably Iceland, Orkney and Shetland) and pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon England (up until about 500 A.D.). The situation above is described as taking place in 7016 B.C., when the grand old man of the Æsir had his sons depart from Gotland island to Sweden and Denmark, with him himself moving with the rest of his sons and family to Finland, thus creating by this mere single incident the Scandinavian, Central European and East European branches of the Nordic white race. As it's told that the Danish model in turn spread south to Central Europe, it possibly hints between the lines at possibility of such system being in place in use also by the continental Central Europeans like Frisians, Franks and other Germans (Bock 1996, 66). Late Russian heathen Vladimir the Great apparently was also a practitioner of this role:

Vladimir had remained a thoroughgoing pagan,
taking eight hundred concubines
(
along with numerous wives
) and erecting pagan statues and shrines to gods. (Source: Wikipedia on
.)

Same phenomena, albeit in lesser scale, can be read from the The Saga of Hervör and Heithrek, where king Heithrek makes it out with five different women:

And as a mark of great honour, King Harold went himself to meet him, and he acquired great fame from this.
The King gave him his daughter Helga in marriage
and with her half his kingdom. Heithrek had the defence of the whole realm in his hands; and this arrangement lasted for a time. [...]

He made love to Sifka the daughter of Humli, a prince from the land of the Huns.
Their son was called Hlöth. He was brought up with his mother's father. [...]

King Heithrek went out raiding and marched against the land of the Saxons with a great host. The King of the Saxons sent men to meet him and they made peace with one another, and the King invited Heithrek to a banquet. Heithrek accepted the invitation.
The result of this banquet was that Heithrek sought the hand of the King's daughter and married her
, receiving much property and land as her dowry; and with that King Heithrek went home to his kingdom. She often used to ask to go to visit her father, and Heithrek was indulgent to her in this matter. Her stepson Angantyr used to go with her. [...]

He also captured another woman called Sifka from Finland.
She was the loveliest woman ever seen. [...]

A council was held and a reconciliation effected by
Heithrek's marrying Hergerth, the daughter of King Hrollaug
; and she brought him as her dowry Wendland, the province which lies nearest to Reithgotaland.

To my eyes the image of a top-heavy sociaty we get from reading the sagas matches rather well the modern genetic studies research.

Edited by FromFinland
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More terribly sad news! It was Alewyn who first informed me about this thread, when, shortly after buying the first edition of his book, I contacted him to discuss some of the issues he raised. I had wondered for a long time where he had gone, and why he no longer posted here.

Alewyn, walk in peace among the ancestors.

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Indeed, loss of 2 fine researchers.

Personally i didn't know them too well, but i found the atmosphere they carried out in their communication very positive.

I would have liked to talk more into detail with them about their thoughts on certain chronology issues that aren't clear for me yet.

Maybe others can give still their insights.

It's about the part written by Wiljo (quotes from http://oeralinda.webs.com/oera-linda-book):

where she claims the credits for rescuing and copying 3 books:

hæv ik thrju boka hret. Thet bok thêra sanga, thêra tellinga, ænd thet Hêlênja bok.

and where she mentions she did more than that, and also copied the scriptures left by Gosa Makonta, the last will of Frana and the scriptures left by 'Adela jefta Hellênja'

Ak hæv ik mâr dên, tha Gosa-Makonta fallen is, hwames godhêd ænd klârsjanhêd to en sprêkword is wrden, thâ ben ik allêna nêi Texland gvngen vmbe tha skrifta vr to skrivane, thêr hju æfter lêten heth, ænd thâ tha lerste wille fonden is fon Frâna ænd tha nêilêtne skrifta fon Adela jefta Hellênja, hæv ik thæt jetta rêis dên. Thit send tha skrifta Hellênjas. Ik set hjam fâr vppa vmbe thæt hja tha aldesta send.

As we can read she states clearly that the 'skrifta Hellenjas' are the oldest ones, Frana's last will is younger.

I think it is safe to assume that Frana's last will dates from 1604 (after Aldland sunk) at latest (when she died). Probably even a little time before. But take 1604.

Then how come we can read in 'tha skrifta Hellênja' the full story about Jessos/Budda born in Kashmir about 1600 and his passing away at least 37 years later?

While all this must be written down before 1604?

Is it just me, but this doesn't fit the chronology imo while Wiljo makes a point of the chronology as an integer fact for her.

In the whole timespan of the narrated facts; imo it would be futile to talk about Frana's will (before 1604) and Jessos birth in Kashmir around 1600 (from tha skrifta Hellênjas) as younger vs older. Surely because if we take the years as they are mentionned, Frana's last will can't date to be younger than Jessos death.

For me one of the most intriguing parts concerning a correct intrepreted chronology of the narrated facts.

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Good point, VG, but I believe that this last will of Frana is forged.

Adelbrost writes on p. 87 (Sandbach 123) that Frana never mentioned a successor and that her will was not found.

Bruno writes on p. 91 (Sandbach 127) that Adela promoted Tüntja, but that there was much resistance against it.

So firstly, there was a motive to forge a will (even if it was done many years later).

Secondly, I find it strange that a last will of a wise folk mother does not contain any wisdom. It is too short to be authentic i.m.o.

Wiljo may have have been right (subconsciously?) suggesting that 'Frana's will' was of later date than the report of Dela (not Adela!) a.k.a. Hellénja.

Edited by Ott
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That is indeed a good point Van Gorp, but it gets worse. If "Jessos" died around 1637 ASA (557 BC) then he died after Adela, who, we are told, died 15 months after the general assembly that took place 30 years after the death of Frana. In other words, Adela died in 559 BC. But did "Jessos" die at the age of 37? We are told that as soon as he reached adulthood he began his travels, and died 12 years later. So the question here is at what age was he considered to have reached adulthood? If it was 21, then his age at death would be 33, thus conforming to the traditional age of Jesus when he died.

It would therefore just about have been possible for Adela to have written about his death, since, if he died at 33, he would have died two years before she did. But would it have been feasable for the news to have reached Frisia from India in that time? Furthermore, she describes the events following his death, how the priests distorted his teachings, for example, even as they were spreading around the world, with the clear implication that some considerable time had passed.

What are the options? Firstly, that the (A)dela Hellenia who wrote about "Jessos" was not the same Adela who was the inspiration for the Book of Adela's Followers and who is the central figure in the OLB. This Adela is not called Hellenia anywhere else, a name that is most often given, instead, to the much earlier Minerva (Ny)hellenia, who lived over a thousand years before. But it is clearly not Minerva either, if "Jessos" lived in the 6th century BC.

In Sandbach's translation the dating of "Jessos" is very clear:

"Sixteen hundred years ago (she writes, 593 B.C.), Atland was submerged; and at that time something happened which nobody had reckoned upon."

Note the semi-colon Sandbach places after the word submerged. This sort of phrasing is very common in Victorian texts, but modern writers would certainly phrase it differently. Yet Sandbach is nevertheless unambigious. In his opinion, the text says that "Jessos" was born in the year that Atland was submerged. Whether he was correct in his interpretion, of course, is another matter (or in fact, we should more properly attribute this opinion to Ottema, rather than Sandbach). If true, this means that the author could indeed have been Adela, writing in ASA 1600, before Frana was killed, and writing about events that happened a very long time before.

I have to admit that I'm not particularly happy with this interpretation, if only because removing "Jessos" from the 6th century BC also removes the Buddha from that period, and the two individuals are implied to be one and the same. But I think it does least violence to the chronology.

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Placing a Jol symbol over a map of Europe, with Wewelsburg at the centre, we find that the north-western spoke, that is, the direction of the midsummer sunset, points to Den Burg, Texel. If we follow the circumference round we find that the northern spoke points to North Frisia, in particular, the Eiderstedt peninsula, which features quite heavily in Spanuth's theories.

wewelsburg1.jpg

More research needs to be untertaken to find out of the other spokes point to anything of interest. Incidentally, the origin of the Jol symbol itself, I strongly suspect, is related to the direction of the midsummer and midwinter sunsets and sunrises, as this diagram for Stonehenge illustrates.

myhenge1.jpg

Edited by Tony S.
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