KY Clerk refuses to issue marriage licenses

[Frank Merton]

Religion must have been there before spirituality. Cults would have already started over useful things in the physical world without any concept of spirituality. The strongest guy in the tribe, that big tree over there, the sun, etc.

I think spirituality comes after religion, but is not caused by it. Religion is probably first in human history because spirituality is a more advanced, more subtle, set of insights. Animism is a religion, at least most people think so, and preceded spirituality -- the object of worship was quite physical.

[questionmark]

I don't agree with the suggestion, if you intend to make it (I'm not sure) that New Age movements caused the decline of the political power of religions. In the west it was philosophical led probably by the Enlightenment Deists.

who were dead set against religion but not against spirituality... see Voltaire. I rest my case.

[Yamato]

I think spirituality comes after religion, but is not caused by it. Religion is probably first in human history because spirituality is a more advanced, more subtle, set of insights. Animism is a religion, at least most people think so, and preceded spirituality -- the object of worship was quite physical.

That's why I used "the womb" as the metaphor. The womb didn't cause the baby, it carried it.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Religion must have been there before spirituality. Cults would have already started over useful things in the physical world without any concept of spirituality. The strongest guy in the tribe, that big tree over there, the sun, etc.

i believe this is putting the cart before the horse. Religion was the formalization of a set of shamanistic and psychadelic practices which is open to any person who ingests certain substances or exposes their body to extreme conditions. Religion is the process of man codifying those experiences into a structure by which they can be remembered and or repeated.

Aborigines have spiritual practices but no formal religious institutions or holy men - their whole existence is a spiritual one.

Br Cornelius

[Yamato]

I believe there was religion before there was written language or painting. We know next to nothing of humanity before the written record.

Religion is ancient and powerful language based on a prophet, a successfully widespread cult to control people, usually not by force and often with good ideas. What Jesus told us is as revelationary today as it was then. We still can't adhere to the principle of non-violence. We all believe in violence when it suits our needs and interests. In light of that, doing the dirt dumps on religion is a waste of dirt.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

I believe there was religion before there was written language or painting. We know next to nothing of humanity before the written record.

Religion is ancient and powerful language based on a prophet, a successfully widespread cult to control people, usually not by force and often with good ideas. What Jesus told us is as revelationary today as it was then. We still can't adhere to the principle of non-violence. We all believe in violence when it suits our needs and interests. In light of that, doing the dirt dumps on religion is a waste of dirt.

The statement highlighted is quite obviously false since we are well acquainted with a whole slew of pre-written cultures which still exist even today. We know this because anthropologists have studied them exhaustively. As I pointed out aboriginal culture has nothing which would broadly be described as a religion, rather it is a set of beliefs and spiritual practices.

It is highly probable that formal religion developed as man came to settle into strongly hierarchical civilizations.

Neither is it true to say that most religions or spiritual traditions are based upon the words of prophets, since most primitive religions are a set of ancient myths carried by a culture from oral traditions.

It seems that your view of religion and spirituality is entirely to occupied with that obscure sect formed by Abraham.

Br Cornelius

[Yamato]

We're "well acquainted" with spirituality pre-writing and pre-painting. I'm "quite obviously false" Uh huh. Okay, for example? What form of communication in this well acquainted field of study are you relying on here? Osmosis?

[Leonardo]

I was directing my statement at Leonardo. I thought it was him who brought this up if it matters. Too many Leos

But I'm the original!

Just call me #1, Mr Krupe will have to be content with being called "#2".

Anyway, I didn't raise the spectre of Muslim flight attendants, only addressed the point that both that person and Ms Davis have no religious grounds (founded in scripture) for their respective objections.

[Leo Krupe]

But I'm the original!

Just call me #1, Mr Krupe will have to be content with being called "#2".

Anyway, I didn't raise the spectre of Muslim flight attendants, only addressed the point that both that person and Ms Davis have no religious grounds (founded in scripture) for their respective objections.

I'm okay with "Second Banana," but "#2" is out, okay?

And I raised the spectre of the Muslim flight attendant, because she's making the exact same argument as our topic. What's the difference that one is privately employed and the other publicly employed? Private enterprise is still regulated by the government, in her case, the FAA. Private businesses can't simply do anything they want, you know, just because they're not a government entity.

If a clerk at McDonald's, or the county license bureau, refuses to serve me because of their "religious freedom," I, as a customer, don't give a pair of dingo's kidneys. I'm not getting what I want, and am willing to pay for. Because of no good reason that I can see.

If a private enterprise refuses to serve me on those grounds, I can call authorities, like the state attorney general, or FTC, or whomever has authority over the particular situation. And if I have a strong enough case, it can go to court, and I can win. Again, regardless of private vs government.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

We're "well acquainted" with spirituality pre-writing and pre-painting. I'm "quite obviously false" Uh huh. Okay, for example? What form of communication in this well acquainted field of study are you relying on here? Osmosis?

the culture been studied is pre-written language. Was my comment so obscure that you missed that.

Br Cornelius

[mbrn30000]

Religion is a mental illness. Christians are not being persecuted, they are persecuting.

http://kxan.com/2015/01/30/williamson-co-settles-suit-over-controversial-hiring-practices/

[aquatus1]

Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it sound better. It just makes it chanting.

[mbrn30000]

Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it sound better. It just makes it chanting.

Religious people dig chanting. it's the magical thinking. they should start digging me.

[docyabut2]

I really can`t decide on this case, but I have to go with Huckabee the supreme court had no right to impose on a state where 75 percent of the people voted against a rule they did not want.

[Frank Merton]

I really can`t decide on this case, but I have to go with Huckabee the supreme court had no right to impose on a state where 75 percent of the people voted against a rule they did not want.

Human freedom and rights are not decided by majority vote. Otherwise you get, as many states were doing, what is called the "tyranny of the majority."

Religious people dig chanting. it's the magical thinking. they should start digging me.

Chanting can be a form of meditation, and it can also be remarkably similar to music. I guess it all depends.

[aquatus1]

And it can be a way to silence the voices of opposition without the courtesy and respect of discourse.

Just as voting is often used in small groups: not as a method to arrive at a decision, but as a way to shut up the dissenters.

[Yamato]

Chanting the "ohm's" and "nu's" feels awesome after 90 minutes of Yoga.

[aquatus1]

George Takei with his contribution:

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Chanting the "ohm's" and "nu's" feels awesome after 90 minutes of Yoga.

So does a pint.

[Leonardo]

That a woman who so blatantly defied the laws she swore to uphold is being feted as a "hero" by so many who would undoubtedly vehemently defend their Constitution against those who might criticise it, is particularly disturbing.

And the coat-tailing by people who cannot be considered in any way 'ignorant' of their Constitution (yes, I'm looking at you Huckabee) is disgusting. His 'desire' to raise religious principle over those principles held as highest in the land according to the Constitution should automatically disqualify him from holding any government position, as only those who can understand the importance of placing secular law above religious tenet should be considered capable of properly upholding the Establishment Clause.

In any case, Ms Davis is a criminal, not a "hero".

Edited September 9, 2015 by Leonardo

[mbrn30000]

ykcutneK and eebakcuH are backwards. Huckabee said he wants to be held in prison for his faith. I say put him there.

there is a Tennessee story about a school assignment to write about Islam. Not sure if what the news said was true, but you can be that mother would not be on tv if it was to write about Jesus. Proves the point. Religion of any kind does not belong in school, and in my opinion anywhere on earth. Religion is dumb.

Edited September 9, 2015 by mbrn30000

[StarMountainKid]

Of the Republican candidates, only Trump, Fiorina and Kasich say the woman must comply with the law. Jeb Bush said he's confused. lol BBC link:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34202936

[mdenise]