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Michelle

Son Died By Lighting Fireworks On His Head

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Yamato

I'm going to build a pool in my backyard next year hopefully by Spring. I will be fully responsible for the design, construction, maintenance, use and cost. Therefore I wouldn't take too kindly to any Australians :D showing up telling me I'm not allowed to use it unless I'm a professional swimmer. I'm not going to become a professional drinker to be allowed to have a drink. And I'm not going to get a govt license or masters degree in fireworks before celebrating the 4th next summer. I'm going to buy em and shoot em, same as last year. Safe, enjoyable and regulated. I'd be more likely to be injured by taking my brother's little kids to the professional displays where there have been mobs, crimes and injuries from being trampled.

Government can't make me a better person. If it has all the answers and knows where to draw all the lines, maybe it should demonstrate the benefits of its own ideas on itself first. All sorts of new rules to obey for all govt employees and officials. If the prohibitive power was toned down from law of the land to more of an open-aired corporate policy, I could live with that in the land of the free. It would be a truer model anyway because the essence of all government is the power to control. If they did some in-house test marketing, maybe the dumbest and least effective laws wouldn't make it to laws at all. I suppose then the public sector would come out of the woodwork screaming "It's not fair!!" But we'd see what the employees of the government itself really think about their employers' ideas on controlling people. It'd also bypass the collectivists who think that as long as it's done to everyone equally, it's alright.

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Yamato

Using the most recent available data on product injuries from the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, HealthGrove used annual injury reports from 1997-2014 to calculate the average number of injuries caused by a product in a given year.

The list is ranked by average number of injuries per year. To see which of your favorite products might kill you, look no further.

cont...

http://www.msn.com/e...rica/ss-BBm8ha7

Unless we're somehow incompetent at using doors beyond the pale, Australia should get to work saving its people from doors right away!

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Yamato

If that (prohibition) does not work, then what are people worried about?

Do you go out and buy stuff that doesn't work? Why would you ever knowingly do that?

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Michelle

Unless we're somehow incompetent at using doors beyond the pale, Australia should get to work saving its people from doors right away!

:tu: Don't strain my brain...I'm still trying to figure out how anything I said could be a racial slur. :lol:

I'm in my early fifties, ahem, and my husband and I have lived in the same 115 year old house for 30 years. Building codes have changed a lot over the years. We have replumbed and rewired our entire house, but there are a lot of elderly people who could not afford it. Several of our widowed neighbors, in their late eighties, come to mind. I figure if they are smart enough not to have electrocuted themselves, in all of these years, the city is smart leaving them alone. If some people had their way, the houses would have been condemned for non-compliance and those widows would be put out on the streets. :passifier:

Edited by Michelle

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psyche101

I'm going to build a pool in my backyard next year hopefully by Spring. I will be fully responsible for the design, construction, maintenance, use and cost.

Great, you can be our test bed - for a start, no fence, let me know how long your pool lasts, you might as well throw other important aspects like earthing out too I suppose - how did you calculate the size of the earth cable to bind the shell?

I mean, Yam don't need follow no stinking rules, lie with everything else op the planet, you are a self regulated pool expert I am sure.

Therefore I wouldn't take too kindly to any Australians :D showing up telling me I'm not allowed to use it unless I'm a professional swimmer.

Can't see that happening, I never even said stop buying Fireworks, I just pointed out that your Government used you, and you thanked them for it.

I'm not going to become a professional drinker to be allowed to have a drink.

That's good, because you cannot follow guidelines, it would have to be Yams drinking guide, as you classify yourself as the most competent and knowledgeable person on the planet - you just fail to illustrate that to back your claims up. In fact, you excel at showing one the opposite examples there.

And I'm not going to get a govt license or masters degree in fireworks before celebrating the 4th next summer. I'm going to buy em and shoot em, same as last year. Safe, enjoyable and regulated.

Like you would care if there was rules, you are far to selfish and egotistical to so much as consider if you hurt someone else, as long as you are having fun, you deem it OK for any other person to die, which is why you are the perfect example as to what is wrong with this law - the arrogant jerks who think everybody else exists to please them. Not me buddy. But you seem to be very slowly catching on there.

I'd be more likely to be injured by taking my brother's little kids to the professional displays where there have been mobs, crimes and injuries from being trampled.

BS, what a stupid lie - 12,000 people are directly injured from fireworks every 4ht of July, what are your statistic based on? I suspect the sounds that come out of your rear end.

Government can't make me a better person.

The amount of times I have HAD to bite my tongue in this thread............... :innocent:

LOL - that is YOUR opinion mate.

If it has all the answers and knows where to draw all the lines, maybe it should demonstrate the benefits of its own ideas on itself first. All sorts of new rules to obey for all govt employees and officials. If the prohibitive power was toned down from law of the land to more of an open-aired corporate policy, I could live with that in the land of the free. It would be a truer model anyway because the essence of all government is the power to control. If they did some in-house test marketing, maybe the dumbest and least effective laws wouldn't make it to laws at all. I suppose then the public sector would come out of the woodwork screaming "It's not fair!!" But we'd see what the employees of the government itself really think about their employers' ideas on controlling people. It'd also bypass the collectivists who think that as long as it's done to everyone equally, it's alright.

Working models Yam, when you finally realise there are other countries on this planet, it should illustrate working models which show what advantages and disadvantages there actually are - you and several others have refused those gifts and decided to make your own mistakes. I maintain what I said from the start, lifting the ban was a dumb idea, and it has nothing to do with Liberty, it has to do with Government using you at the expense of your own safety, and recognising the size of your ego to collect. That's the impression you give of, not a self sustaining workman who can tackle any task, but an idiot who thinks he is skilled at everything that exists, and none are more knowledgable.

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psyche101

Unless we're somehow incompetent at using doors beyond the pale, Australia should get to work saving its people from doors right away!

We can just copy it from your Nannies.

Didn't you read the link? You guys saw finger jams as more of a problem than people dying - because the statistic is greater I suppose? Same mentality I am seeing in here.

This was at the link Yam - FingerSafeUSA.com.

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psyche101

:tu: Don't strain my brain...I'm still trying to figure out how anything I said could be a racial slur. :lol:

That does explain the trouble you are having with the concepts I have outlined.

I'm in my early fifties, ahem, and my husband and I have lived in the same 115 year old house for 30 years. Building codes have changed a lot over the years. We have replumbed and rewired our entire house, but there are a lot of elderly people who could not afford it. Several of our widowed neighbors, in their late eighties, come to mind. I figure if they are smart enough not to have electrocuted themselves, in all of these years, the city is smart leaving them alone. If some people had their way, the houses would have been condemned for non-compliance and those widows would be put out on the streets. :passifier:

Then if your laws are up to our standards, they have not had electrical work doe for more than a decade. If that is their maintenance program, it is little wonder these dwellings remain standing.

Smart enough to leave them alone?? LOL, Sounds ,more like "does not care about them" to me.

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Michelle

Then if your laws are up to our standards, they have not had electrical work doe for more than a decade. If that is their maintenance program, it is little wonder these dwellings remain standing.

Smart enough to leave them alone?? LOL, Sounds ,more like "does not care about them" to me.

We have an old saying....if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Every decade for maintenance for wiring? Houses should be rewired every decade? What kind of shoddy products are you using? One short in one wire does not call for an entire whole house rewire.

If people like you were in charge of the historic 14th and 15th century castles in Europe they would have all been torn down long ago due to "unsafe conditions".

Edited by Michelle
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psyche101

We have an old saying....if it ain't broke don't fix it.

And here you were calling Australia "behind the times" when your country introduced these sensible safety precautions, what 6 months before we made it a national standard? Was it "broke" then was it? But not now somehow?

It is broke if it can hurt you, and electricity does that without warning. Seriously, if you think doing your own electrical work, or avoiding electrical work is somehow admirable, then you are just doing it all wrong. That is an incredibly stupid thing to do, and a very serious risk to life.

What makes you think the pioneers got it 100% right anyway? Why wouldn't standards continue to get better as we attain greater understandings of these environments we deal with? And why would we not then implement better measures?

If people like you were in charge of the historic castles in Europe they would have all been torn down long ago due to "unsafe conditions".

No they would not, they would be carefully brought up to a safe standard, so everyone can enjoy looking through them without risk. I am actually quite up to speed on historical sites, having completed two major installations here that were heritage listed, that are actually right on the Brisbane river, and quite famous locally. I know it takes forever to get paperwork approved, and you are not allowed to even scratch paint without a dozen forms in place and you have to watch out for stuff they used back then that was considered safe, but shock horror, our Nannies have made us aware of nuisances like Asbestosis, and how to avoid it.

Anything else you have obviously never been near that you would like to tell a trade engineer about? What else do you need to bring me up to speed on that you know nothing about now?

By comparison, you would still be building houses out of asbestos, and considering the people dying of asbestosis to "need to toughen up a bit, not expect to be wrapped in cotton wool just because you are bleeding to death from the inside out while your breath is taken away bit by bit.

You should grow up and accept that things have improved since "back in the day" and we should embrace these new and better ways of managing all aspects of society. But there are plenty of sticks still rather upright in that particular patch of mud.

Edited by psyche101

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Michelle

You go so far off the deep end, off topic and irrelevant, psyche, I don't want anything more to do with you. Rest assured, that will be the last time I acknowledge you. Revel in the fact you have won this meaningless battle and I will get on with my life.

Please, do feel free to giggle to yourself as you get the last word in.

Edited by Michelle

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psyche101

You go so far off the deep end, off topic and irrelevant, psyche, I don't want anything more to do with you. Rest assured, that will be the last time I acknowledge you. Revel in the fact you have won this meaningless battle and I will get on with my life.

And yet, you initiated exchanges yourself. Funny that. Enjoy your life. Some of us rely on detail, it is how we manage these greater understandings.

It is not a "win" it is how things are. You get too wrapped up in competition and take it badly when shown to be incorrect. Information should be to the benefit of us all. It is not a competition. It is about accuracy.

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Myles

I never said you did FFS Myles, seriously mate, what is wrong with you? Do you have a "condition" I should be aware of? You are the only one who canot wrap their head around this - have you not noticed???????

Print this, and sticky tape it to your screen to save having this same conversation again would you?

NO, I NEVER said you told anyone to take down a Pool Fence I SAID THAT, I asked you to do that to illustrated that there are no Pool Laws in effect!! If none exist, so many people die, then you wot have to put it back up, if you do, then there ARE law's aren't there?

Really, I can't explain it any simpler than this, my ten year old daughter would understand it.

Then take down you fence and prove it, or dig a hole in the ground and swim in it, without taking note of the safety laws, and tell me IF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO KEEP YOUR POOL

If not, then there are laws in place and in effect, aren't there?? And you may not have a pool unless you meet a specific safety standard hey.

No, you are deliberately trying to get the thread shut down by repeating yourself with an inane argument that does not work.

There are laws in place for Pools, there are NONE for FIreworks which are explosives. NONE - do yo get that - not a one, nada, zilch, zippo not a single one to be seen or heard of. NOTHING.

If you find one law not up to your standard, it is your given rights as a citizen to PROTEST it. I see the measures working I can quote the number of lives SAVED by the law, I can show a marked and dramatic improvement that shows us the solution is WORKING. YOU need to go protest to your local politician and say " The pool Laws are inadequate" YOU DO NOT go to your local Politician and say "Heaps of people die accidentally with guns, so I want to be able to have a personal nuclear device to power my home - if it blows up, it will only kill 18,000 people, but look at how many die on the roads each day, so it's OK if they die.

Your next stop would be the local loony bin. Be honest. And that is pretty much what you are saying here. Stupid idea, and no community thought whatsoever.

Are you off your medication?

You keep rambling the same false statements.

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Jarocal

And here you were calling Australia "behind the times" when your country introduced these sensible safety precautions, what 6 months before we made it a national standard?

I've explained a simple way codes could be developed and implemented without wasting municipal resources. I have no issue with banks requiring houses meet a code standard to get the mortgage, my issue with the code system is taxpayer subsidization allowing mortgage companies to externalize those costs.

It is broke if it can hurt you, and electricity does that without warning. Seriously, if you think doing your own electrical work, or avoiding electrical work is somehow admirable, then you are just doing it all wrong. That is an incredibly stupid thing to do, and a very serious risk to life.

I do a fair bit of my own wiring but know my limitations and call an electrician to tie the main into the box or ensure my grid tie in safety switch is functioning correctly.

What makes you think the pioneers got it 100% right anyway? Why wouldn't standards continue to get better as we attain greater understandings of these environments we deal with? And why would we not then implement better measures?

Define better? Very few houses built today are built with the lifespan of a stone building from a few hundred years ago. Nor are they built with the shorter lifespan of say a wattle and daub that is design to be a quick cheap structure easily repaired, expanded or modified.

No they would not, they would be carefully brought up to a safe standard, so everyone can enjoy looking through them without risk. I am actually quite up to speed on historical sites, having completed two major installations here that were heritage listed, that are actually right on the Brisbane river, and quite famous locally. I know it takes forever to get paperwork approved, and you are not allowed to even scratch paint without a dozen forms in place and you have to watch out for stuff they used back then that was considered safe, but shock horror, our Nannies have made us aware of nuisances like Asbestosis, and how to avoid it.

Barring a significant health risk such as asbestos houses here are grandfathered into the code at time of construction until remodeling or sale of the house occurs.

Anything else you have obviously never been near that you would like to tell a trade engineer about? What else do you need to bring me up to speed on that you know nothing about now?

Umm yeah, water runoff vs. retention in a landscape. Airtight testing on houses, casing beads/caulk around decorative features outside of the scratch coat in masonry. Well the list is long...

By comparison, you would still be building houses out of asbestos, and considering the people dying of asbestosis to "need to toughen up a bit, not expect to be wrapped in cotton wool just because you are bleeding to death from the inside out while your breath is taken away bit by bit.

You should grow up and accept that things have improved since "back in the day" and we should embrace these new and better ways of managing all aspects of society. But there are plenty of sticks still rather upright in that particular patch of mud.

No asbestos and such would have still been phased out because banks and insurers would have implemented these changes in the private sector.

Not all developments are actually imorovements. The are simply different technologies/methodologies currently in use. The future will tell us what we are using today that will become the asbestos of tomorrow.

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Yamato

Great, you can be our test bed - for a start, no fence, let me know how long your pool lasts, you might as well throw other important aspects like earthing out too I suppose - how did you calculate the size of the earth cable to bind the shell?

I mean, Yam don't need follow no stinking rules, lie with everything else op the planet, you are a self regulated pool expert I am sure.

Can't see that happening, I never even said stop buying Fireworks, I just pointed out that your Government used you, and you thanked them for it.

That's good, because you cannot follow guidelines, it would have to be Yams drinking guide, as you classify yourself as the most competent and knowledgeable person on the planet - you just fail to illustrate that to back your claims up. In fact, you excel at showing one the opposite examples there.

Like you would care if there was rules, you are far to selfish and egotistical to so much as consider if you hurt someone else, as long as you are having fun, you deem it OK for any other person to die, which is why you are the perfect example as to what is wrong with this law - the arrogant jerks who think everybody else exists to please them. Not me buddy. But you seem to be very slowly catching on there.

BS, what a stupid lie - 12,000 people are directly injured from fireworks every 4ht of July, what are your statistic based on? I suspect the sounds that come out of your rear end.

The amount of times I have HAD to bite my tongue in this thread............... :innocent:

LOL - that is YOUR opinion mate.

Working models Yam, when you finally realise there are other countries on this planet, it should illustrate working models which show what advantages and disadvantages there actually are - you and several others have refused those gifts and decided to make your own mistakes. I maintain what I said from the start, lifting the ban was a dumb idea, and it has nothing to do with Liberty, it has to do with Government using you at the expense of your own safety, and recognising the size of your ego to collect. That's the impression you give of, not a self sustaining workman who can tackle any task, but an idiot who thinks he is skilled at everything that exists, and none are more knowledgable.

"Stupid lie" yourself, bub.

I'll entertain government prohibition on accidents that result in 12,000 injuries per year long after I'll entertain government prohibition on accidents that result in 400,000 injuries per year. It is absurd, to think that we need government prohibition to control how we use stairs, balconies, and doors. By extension, fireworks are orders of magnitude more absurd than that.

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lightly

Fireworks on the head? Child'splay. We made a cannon out of a piece of galvanized steel water pipe.. stuck it in the ground.. loaded it with gunpowder and a projectile , or projectiles, which in hindsite was probably extra dangerous, and Touched it off at the little hole drilled near the bottom!* ... which sent it flying out over the CALM lake so we could see how far it went. It went a long way!

I always say, it's a wonder any boys survive to adulthood.

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DieChecker

I always say, it's a wonder any boys survive to adulthood.

Oh the things I did also. We shot at each other with BB guns. Had contests on who could pee on the electric fence the longest. Rode on top of the hay in the back of the truck at 50 miles per hour. Tried to kill a rattlesnake with a cinder block. Crawled through culverts almost too small for my head to fit. Leaping tree to tree from the tops of medium sized fir trees.....Good times......

I used to get into my dad's black power and gun power (He used to re-load his own ammo, including melting bricks of lead into his own bullet molds. I can still remember the smell of evaporating lead...) and I'd burn down all kinds of stuff with it. Only burned myself really bad once.... :innocent:

EDIT: Oh and there was the bike slalom contests where we rode under the barb wire fence, ducking low to not get cut by the one high strand. And there was the time were we got in afight with a large porcupine. And the one time where I was chased for a mile by rifle carrying pot growers and ended up wandering into their garden anyway.

Edited by DieChecker
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psyche101

Are you off your medication?

You keep rambling the same false statements.

Great rebuttal there Myles, just a genius at this stuff aren't you. Love the way you pulled apart each point, illustrated an understanding or proportioning figures and showed how the codes do not save lives.

Ohhh....... wait......... you failed at all those points, I must be thinking of someone else.

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psyche101

I've explained a simple way codes could be developed and implemented without wasting municipal resources. I have no issue with banks requiring houses meet a code standard to get the mortgage, my issue with the code system is taxpayer subsidization allowing mortgage companies to externalize those costs.

I understand, but that was not what Michelle was referring to, earlier in the thread, she seemed to think such precautions like Residual Current Devices is akin to wrapping yourself in cotton wool, and it was an over the top standard. She is incorrect, Industry Professionals are the people to evaluate these risks, as they have more working knowledge than others. That was more a safety issue than management.

I do a fair bit of my own wiring but know my limitations and call an electrician to tie the main into the box or ensure my grid tie in safety switch is functioning correctly.

Terribly frowned upon, but not uncommon for someone to instal the wiring and outlets, and then get an electrician to fit off test and commission.

As long as you have the good sense to get a licensed professional to flick that switch. Otherwise - keep your welding goggles handy!!! :w00t:

Define better? Very few houses built today are built with the lifespan of a stone building from a few hundred years ago. Nor are they built with the shorter lifespan of say a wattle and daub that is design to be a quick cheap structure easily repaired, expanded or modified.

It's meeting in the middle, no need for heavy work like lifting stone, or tedious work like carving it, but that is not what I was speaking about, I was referring to standards, which offer greater safety than the rudimentary measures we started out with. The aforementioned Residual Current Devices are a perfect example. As we evolve practises, measures need to evolve too, and safety does evolve and gets better.

Barring a significant health risk such as asbestos houses here are grandfathered into the code at time of construction until remodeling or sale of the house occurs.

Yep, same here, that is what I said to Michelle, but extended it to any major work on the house by a tradesman requires that work to be up to current standards. Which is the law here. SO once you need an extra power point, another light or and air conditioner put in, the standard has to be met.

Umm yeah, water runoff vs. retention in a landscape. Airtight testing on houses, casing beads/caulk around decorative features outside of the scratch coat in masonry. Well the list is long...

Also, not what I was referring to, in my reply. I am an electrical Engineer and have stated such, Michelle knows this, yet seems to feel I need to be brought up to speed on my own standards and can teach me a thing or two about stuff I do every day all day and then some - usually.

I brought residual current devices into the conversation, and then had them explained to me. What can one do at that point but facepalm?

Maybe I need a Holiday huh LOL.

No asbestos and such would have still been phased out because banks and insurers would have implemented these changes in the private sector.

Ahh - but in Micelles world, there would be no regulations! Regulations would be consider wrapping one up ion cotton wool. Anyone could sell you anything, and they would not be liable for it, because according to some of the sentiments here, such precautions are for wusses.

At least they are alive wusses. The "though talk" form these posters does not impress me one bit. Rather the opposite.

Not all developments are actually imorovements. The are simply different technologies/methodologies currently in use. The future will tell us what we are using today that will become the asbestos of tomorrow.

Things like Asbestos should be a warning to us all though. People should not have to die before we find out it is harmful, Safety measures exist for that very reason.

Improvements that are not improvements are discarded, we can only forge ahead by real world application.

Edited by psyche101

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psyche101

"Stupid lie" yourself, bub.

Yeah it is a lie, feel free to back it up anytime and prove me wrong. I do not read about 12,000 people getting trampled at Fireworks displays, but I can quote you such statistics for one single day of the year concerning home fireworks, and it hovers at around 12,000 people for that one day.

I'll entertain government prohibition on accidents that result in 12,000 injuries per year long after I'll entertain government prohibition on accidents that result in 400,000 injuries per year.

What a childish and rather stupid way to mitigate injury. You are doing the same dumb thing many others have. If lots of people die in car accidents, that does not make murder legal. Just because a bunch of people die doing one thing does not make it OK to let people die in unrelated incidents, that is just backwards caveman thinking Yam. I do not even know where to start with how ridiculous that premise actually is.

If people are being injured and dying form something they got recently, then it is a bad thing, and you remove it. It is really that simple. One life or a thousand should not factor, the situation and risk is ALL that matters there. It would not cost the millions Die Checker proposed, it would cost little if anything at all. It is an existing law with the regulations already in place. All that needs be done is remove the read label, and read it again. If you can stop 12,000 injuries and save up to a dozen lives, for literally no risk or cost to yourself, it is your social duty to do so.

It is absurd, to think that we need government prohibition to control how we use stairs, balconies, and doors. By extension, fireworks are orders of magnitude more absurd than that.

Ohh come off it Yam, you are an arrogant person with no regard for others and you have illustrated such over and again. It would not matter of the door expert of the globe came up to you personally, and intimately explained the risk factors to you, and took the responsibility on themselves, and off the Ebil Gubbermint, you just would not listen, because you live in Yams works, lacking social order, and thought for others. Look at you carrying on like a pork chop when I never said to you must ban anything, but stated lifting that ban was astoundingly stupid. You want to explain how that is me telling you how to live and what to do? Then we can both understand your colourful rants.

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psyche101

Oh the things I did also. We shot at each other with BB guns. Had contests on who could pee on the electric fence the longest. Rode on top of the hay in the back of the truck at 50 miles per hour. Tried to kill a rattlesnake with a cinder block. Crawled through culverts almost too small for my head to fit. Leaping tree to tree from the tops of medium sized fir trees.....Good times......

I used to get into my dad's black power and gun power (He used to re-load his own ammo, including melting bricks of lead into his own bullet molds. I can still remember the smell of evaporating lead...) and I'd burn down all kinds of stuff with it. Only burned myself really bad once.... :innocent:

EDIT: Oh and there was the bike slalom contests where we rode under the barb wire fence, ducking low to not get cut by the one high strand. And there was the time were we got in afight with a large porcupine. And the one time where I was chased for a mile by rifle carrying pot growers and ended up wandering into their garden anyway.

Hunted Roos with Knives, pigs with a .22 surfed with Great Whites and Tiger Sharks, and speared Stingrays from a surfboard amongst Bull Sharks. Thought exploring rock crevices was just too much fun to ignore.

Great times? Sometimes. Don't know how I made it to adulthood most days.

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Paranoid Android

The I've only read the most recent few pages of this thread, but it seems pretty clear that people are being needlessly rude and insulting towards each other. For the moment, this thread is closed for moderator review!

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