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Michelle

Son Died By Lighting Fireworks On His Head

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Beefers

LOL, and each post you make is stupider than the last - on a roll here aren't we! :D

Think I'd rather be in my shoes right now!!

I'd rather have a functioning liver, thanks. You go really far defending alcohol and demonizing fireworks here.

And a tip: don't post anymore until you're sobered up, you're making a fool out of yourself.

Edited by Beefers

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Australia has a beer culture, hell our national food (Vegemite) is made from the leftovers of beer production!

So getting the average Australian to see the damage drinking does is quite a challenge, seeing someone going the big vom in the street is less a cause of concern and more one of mockery - "can't hold his drink!". There was an uproar when it was announced you could no longer bring your own booze to the cricket and the football. Also every set of corner shops will have a bottlo on them.

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Myles

Don't think so Myles, for instance, I have raced Go Karts, I even have a license and I can scan and PM it if you doubt me. I'd like to see you put one of those off road. They sit inches of the ground and are designed for performance and speed, not all terrain. You are only going to use them on a track, and I know several fathers who do race with their sons, and they have not ever taken a Go Kart off track because ti would wreck it. My Boss has an ATV for himself and his son who is 7.

Please do not tell me you have no pool fence laws!!

You are mistaken. Of course there are many different kinds of go carts, but the most common are for home use and anyone can buy and own one. In fact, I have one. Haven't used it for a couple years but maybe I'll get it out soon. I have rolled it before, but just because it's only purpose is entertainment I don't want it banned.

My state has pool fence laws, but that doesn't mean anything in this case. People who own pools drown while drunk quite often. In fact it is very common to enjoy some beverages while entertaining at a pool. So the comparisons to fireworks are many.

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Bama13

I disagree, but then again, so do most of the people in my country and several others it would seem.

You seem to have missed the bit about mixing volatile compounds???

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. – Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Bama13

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psyche101

No, if I use your logic with my statistics then it should be life in prison for owning a car.

Please explain, I have no idea where you are coming from there.

And you think that means that they can't kill you?

What it means is that other explosives are legislated, so why not fireworks? As mentioned, anything can kill, even a naked human, it takes a sick mind to construct that thought to begin with. Removing dangerous items from the general public is a good idea.

I think that people should know that chainsaws are dangerous. People are free to watch instructional videos and learn the proper techniques, if they don't then they are responsible for what happens.

This is simply the current situation, if we take it a step further, 28,000 people will not get hurt, a significant, number less than that will.

Actually he did die because he had it on his head. If he would have been following the instructions it wouldn't have blown up ON HIS HEAD.

This is complete BS and you know it.

He thought it was a dud, and it malfunctioned. If it was in perfect working order he would not have died. Yes it was a dumb thing to do, can anyone in this thread honestly say they have not ever done something stupid? I know I have. Many many people do dumb things when drunk, and alcohol is here to stay. Cars and alcohol are banned together, I do not see a good reason not to do the very same with explosives.

I have given you legitimate reasons as to why they are banned in certain places. Obviously these reasons vary in importance in different locations.

Agreed, all I am saying is safety also factors in.

I will get back to you on the links.

LINK #1 - Firework shrapnel kills a bystander(actually 3 individual cases)

^^ This one actually counters your argument. It was a homemade firework, like everyone would have to use if they were banned.

LINK #2 - Officials identify Billings man killed in fireworks accident

^^ Needed a survey for that one, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

LINK 3# - Despite tragedy, fireworks to go on

^^ Cambodian aka homemade fireworks.

LINK #4 - Fireworks season brings biggest injury risk

^^ This one was a sad story. You aren't supposed to shoot them off near houses :no:

LINK #5 - New Year's Eve revellers injured by illegal fireworks in busy night for Victorian paramedics

^^ This was drugs.

So the first two that you state are homemade fireworks - how does that make a difference? If you ban fireworks that means homemade ones too. If the authorities can only catch these people when they let them off, then only people breaking the law will be a casualty, which is significantly less than the entire general population - the risk is minimised.

AND

that first link as I noted contained three cases, the other two were not homemade situations:

In Marysville, an explosion at a Fourth of July fireworks celebration injured 14 spectators, including a 14-year-old girl who lost part of her lower right leg.

Another girl suffered shrapnel injury that required surgery, and 12 other victims suffered minor injuries, police said. Witnesses said a firework landed at the feet of the severely injured teen.

The last link is not drugs, drugs and stabbings created a large enough workload on NYE and they did not need the additional pressure of Firework related injuries as well.

Thanks for the links, I honestly couldn't find any. You did prove your point, they killed a few people. I would love to know if alcohol was involved.

Not in every case, but that is irrelevant. Alcohol just ensures that more accidents will happen. That's why lifting the ban in Maine was one of the stupidest ideas that a politician has had. They are explosives, as you noted many reasons exist for banning them. Not just alcohol, but people seem to have latched onto that one reason? Why so many reasons do not matter for some states is indeed baffling, and somewhat ridiculous. I do feel the lady calling for banning has a case, and more so than her son's life alone. I feel terrible for that poor lady, no parent should ever bury their own child. It's just wrong. I sincerely hope that NOBODY on this board ever has to live through such a painful experience, and then have a crowd dump on their misfortune for their own ego's. As I said many times, I bet that EVERYONE in this thread has done something stupid.

Edited by psyche101

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psyche101

Yes alcohol was one of those compounds.

That is but one serious danger that is ever present and can only be curbed by separating the two.

I did miss this one though.

Again....... please explain.

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psyche101

You are mistaken. Of course there are many different kinds of go carts, but the most common are for home use and anyone can buy and own one. In fact, I have one. Haven't used it for a couple years but maybe I'll get it out soon. I have rolled it before, but just because it's only purpose is entertainment I don't want it banned.

If I Google "Go Kart" I get like a million images like this:

2011010401022222831_131533939.jpg

That is not off road, and that is not going offroad. To go offroad, you buy an ATV - hence the name. And I explained those too. Children's versions exist.

If an offroad version exists, and I am sure it does, it is by far not the most common item, and I have not seen one in my life. To go offroad you get an offroad vehicle, which are plenty in form and price ranges.

My state has pool fence laws, but that doesn't mean anything in this case. People who own pools drown while drunk quite often. In fact it is very common to enjoy some beverages while entertaining at a pool. So the comparisons to fireworks are many.

Yes it does - why do you think those laws exist to begin with? It not only keeps people safe, but puts a safety barrier in your head - the fence is there for a reason. Pools do not take out innocent bystanders, pools do not blow up. So it is chalk and cheese, not alike whatsoever.

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psyche101

I'd rather have a functioning liver, thanks.

If I was you, I would be more worried about my brain.

You go really far defending alcohol and demonizing fireworks here.

No, your small mind only sees one word in a paragraph, current AA'er are we now?? You seem to have a serious bugbear here and do not notice human lives are being expended for entertainment, let's face it, you are no Einstein are you.

And a tip: don't post anymore until you're sobered up, you're making a fool out of yourself.

And yet can provide varied descriptive arguments of all facets whilst you can only focus on one aspect. If anyone is looking rather dim here it is you. You struggle to construct a sound debate and can only cut and paste the same pathetic reply. You should grow up a bit, you are rather pathetic.

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psyche101

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. – Thomas Jefferson

“The three great essentials to achieve anything worthwhile are, first, hard work; second, stick-to-itiveness; third, common sense.”

Thomas A. Edison

Edited by psyche101

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DieChecker

I'm living in ND right now, and this was the best 4th of July I have ever seen. The city next to where I live has nearly everything legal. For 8 or so hours(from mid afternoon until 1 in the morning) it sounded like a war zone. Mortars going off in all directions at all times, hundreds of those flying lantern things from the Disney movie, sparklers, firecrackers, novelty stuff going off in the streets, the works.

I didn't see any flying lanterns. Though that may be for the better, because they would be really are more of a fire hazard then even a mortar, since the lanterns do many times slowly drop down and land while still lit, and the grass here is 99% flammable right now.

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DieChecker

In the last 5 years, I would have seen maybe two illegal fireworks, and it was not spectacular by any means. All those poor people did was miss out on the real spectacular shows that the local councils put on for NYE.

Fireworks are very noticeable, it sounds more like nobody cares, and if surrounding states can use them, then I see why people would not bother with that law.

Worked here. And it was easier than firearms too, the law was passed, the police enforced it, and that was that. If you make fireworks illegal, even black market ones are crappy and expensive and not worth the fine when you get caught, and 9 out of 10 will be caught with such a noticeable display. Of course you can get rid of them easily if you want to. A Firework is useless and of no value if it is always concealed.

I do believe that most Australian's were happy to say goodbye to fireworks as our festive seasons (Xmas & NYE) that tend to utilise fireworks are in our summer when it is dry, and fire hazard is very high. Fireworks cost many lives and caused much damage through bushfire. Especially amateurs that would not even consider that aspect until too late, or are inebriated. We fear Bushfire and it is a major concern. So I guess not hard to legislate when people consider the big picture and are community orientated.

So, I see that what you propose would work in Australia, but not in the US. The scope of what law enforcement would have to do is beyond their ability by several factors of ten. Plus, like I said few people care, so a law to prevent a teenager from using a firework, or even a 22 year old (he was 22 or 23, if I remember right), is just going to be ignored. Even a law the forbides alcohol and fireworks being used in the same area would be un-enforceable.

The only reason such could be enforced in Australia is, like you said, no one has access to such explosives. Legislation to suppress access to big fireworks would have to include all three North American nations, otherwise it would be doomed to fail. Like the War on Drugs, which is completely failing, despite harsh fines, long jail time, and just about every law enforcement agency being constantly involved.

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Wickian

I didn't see any flying lanterns. Though that may be for the better, because they would be really are more of a fire hazard then even a mortar, since the lanterns do many times slowly drop down and land while still lit, and the grass here is 99% flammable right now.

Well there was hardly any wind that night, so the lanterns probably stayed up until the fuel was used up and flame died.

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psyche101

So, I see that what you propose would work in Australia, but not in the US. The scope of what law enforcement would have to do is beyond their ability by several factors of ten. Plus, like I said few people care, so a law to prevent a teenager from using a firework, or even a 22 year old (he was 22 or 23, if I remember right), is just going to be ignored. Even a law the forbides alcohol and fireworks being used in the same area would be un-enforceable.

The only reason such could be enforced in Australia is, like you said, no one has access to such explosives. Legislation to suppress access to big fireworks would have to include all three North American nations, otherwise it would be doomed to fail. Like the War on Drugs, which is completely failing, despite harsh fines, long jail time, and just about every law enforcement agency being constantly involved.

I do not think it would be that hard, you just have to legislate companies as well as people is all.

And - enforcing it in all three nations is the general idea mate.

It is not "all too hard" it is achievable, look, give me Obama's detail's, Ill talk to the man.

You might be surprised to find out how many people care. The elderly, farmers, and animal breeders largely hate them.

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Use your brain

That is but one serious danger that is ever present and can only be curbed by separating the two.

Again....... please explain.

I'm in a bad mood from what happened earlier today. So I'm just going to show how full of BS you are, and that you are a giant hypocrite and then I'm going to bed.

Using your logic, from your posts, you should be completely against alcohol.... but you defend it while going after everything else. You refuse to put blame on the main problem.

ETA: Alcohol Kills ~88,000 people each year - http://www.cdc.gov/a...alcohol-use.htm

You guys just do not seem to "get it" Society can only move as fast as it's slowest person.

I do not have a problem at all with banning things, in a community rules are essential and the greater good mitigates any disappointment.

Of course, why not legalise Heroin while you are at it, cannot do any harm now can it.

Does not matter that these drugs are addictive, destroy your mind and your body, and create an addiction that leads to crime and death. And increasing heart rate and blood pressure will in a certain amount of cases cause heart failure

Your personal problem with banning items across a community for the greater good, I see your view as astoundingly selfish. Bans exist for a reason, and they can be very beneficial to all

If something is extremely dangerous and deadly, it should not be available to everyone! This mentality of "I use my "insert what you want here" safely!! Why should I miss out"? is just crazy talk!! You live in a freaking community.

We live in a society, if you wish to remain in a society, then you need to follow guidelines that suit the majority of people and offer a safe environment. If you disagree, become a hermit in the woods, nobody will miss a person with that outlook.

A lot of people do things outrageously stupid, that is what I said earlier, in a community, we have to walk at the pace of the slowest person. It is what being in a community is all about.

Particularly when used for celebrations where alcohol will certainly be prevalent.

BECAUSE THAT PRICK JOHN GOT DRUNK AND KILLED A DOZEN PEOPLE ON A HORRIFIC ACCIDENT!!

And notably will be used at celebrations where Alcohol is very likely to be a factor??

Alcohol makes many stupid things seem like a good idea at the time and fireworks are used at celebrations. Keeping Alcohol and explosives apart seems a no brainer to me.

I have a problem with alcohol and guns, I have a problem with alcohol and explosives and I have a problem with alcohol and driving, common sense stuff that people should not do. Alcohol should beget MORE alcohol and a Taxi. Not a dangerous Item - what's the logic behind that F3SS?? I have no idea where you are going with this. You think alcohol and explosives are a good combination???

What an amazingly small mind!! LOL, you cannot fathom that the effects of Alcohol are detrimental to judgement? What happens when you drink and drive - is there a law against that?

Banning alcohol would be a criminal action. Banning people from handling deadly objects whilst under the influence of alcohol is a no brainer.

Well, cars and alcohol are indeed already prohibited partners, it seems a good idea to keep alcohol away from all seriously dangerous items?

I mean use your freaking head, the two do not mix well like drinking and driving. Soon as you ban cars, I'll be happy to ban Alcohol OK?

That is what people tend to do when drinking - not think things through - and fireworks are used at celebrations, where alcohol is more than often a factor - which is what makes a public ban a no brainer the way I see it.

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psyche101

I'm in a bad mood from what happened earlier today.

Yeah, hey let's make that my fault too hey! I am foreign after all!!

So I'm just going to show how full of BS you are, and that you are a giant hypocrite and then I'm going to bed.

Well, I hope you get a decent sleep, you sound like you need it.

Using your logic, from your posts, you should be completely against alcohol.... but you defend it while going after everything else. You refuse to put blame on the main problem.

ETA: Alcohol Kills ~88,000 people each year - http://www.cdc.gov/a...alcohol-use.htm

So how is alcohol not legislated?? Is it legal to drink and drive? Is it legal to operate heavy machinery under the influence? Is it legal to boat and drink? is it legal to even drink in public? Is it legal to drink under 18? Is it legal to sell alcohol unlicensed?

Well, with silly laws like that, I should not make assumptions, it is illegal here to drink in a alcohol public street. If a person exhibits extremely drunken behaviour in a bar here, the establishment can be fined for continuing to serve them!!

So why should I be against alcohol when there are laws and rules to ban it from situation that are likely to get others hurt? The bans are in place. They apply to specifics as is necessary. Imagine the death toll without these rules and regulations!!!!!

no_more.jpg

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Myles

If I Google "Go Kart" I get like a million images like this:

2011010401022222831_131533939.jpg

That is not off road, and that is not going offroad. To go offroad, you buy an ATV - hence the name. And I explained those too. Children's versions exist.

If an offroad version exists, and I am sure it does, it is by far not the most common item, and I have not seen one in my life. To go offroad you get an offroad vehicle, which are plenty in form and price ranges.

Yes it does - why do you think those laws exist to begin with? It not only keeps people safe, but puts a safety barrier in your head - the fence is there for a reason. Pools do not take out innocent bystanders, pools do not blow up. So it is chalk and cheese, not alike whatsoever.

You are fibbing. I just googled go cart and got many like you show, but also just as many for yard use. Sams Club sells them. Maybe they are banned down under, but they are very popular here.

Fireworks do not cause people to drown. I can do that too. Pools are responsible for more deaths than fireworks. A fence does not stop most of these.

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Myles

So how is alcohol not legislated?? Is it legal to drink and drive? Is it legal to operate heavy machinery under the influence? Is it legal to boat and drink? is it legal to even drink in public? Is it legal to drink under 18? Is it legal to sell alcohol unlicensed?

So we can ban using fireworks in a way that goes against the instructions. There are instructions on them. We can ban using fireworks under the influence of alcohol.

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Bama13

“The three great essentials to achieve anything worthwhile are, first, hard work; second, stick-to-itiveness; third, common sense.”

Thomas A. Edison

I'm missing something. How is this quote germane to the discussion?

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Beefers

If I was you, I would be more worried about my brain.

No, your small mind only sees one word in a paragraph, current AA'er are we now?? You seem to have a serious bugbear here and do not notice human lives are being expended for entertainment, let's face it, you are no Einstein are you.

And yet can provide varied descriptive arguments of all facets whilst you can only focus on one aspect. If anyone is looking rather dim here it is you. You struggle to construct a sound debate and can only cut and paste the same pathetic reply. You should grow up a bit, you are rather pathetic.

Just keep on drinking then :tu: As long as you're happy and not worried about how you come across to others (judging from your posts here, you don't care).

Keep on defending alcohol, belittling its effects on people, including yourself.

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Use your brain

Yeah, hey let's make that my fault too hey! I am foreign after all!!

Well, I hope you get a decent sleep, you sound like you need it.

So how is alcohol not legislated?? Is it legal to drink and drive? Is it legal to operate heavy machinery under the influence? Is it legal to boat and drink? is it legal to even drink in public? Is it legal to drink under 18? Is it legal to sell alcohol unlicensed?

Well, with silly laws like that, I should not make assumptions, it is illegal here to drink in a alcohol public street. If a person exhibits extremely drunken behaviour in a bar here, the establishment can be fined for continuing to serve them!!

So why should I be against alcohol when there are laws and rules to ban it from situation that are likely to get others hurt? The bans are in place. They apply to specifics as is necessary. Imagine the death toll without these rules and regulations!!!!!

no_more.jpg

So how is alcohol not legislated?? Is it legal to drink and drive? Is it legal to operate heavy machinery under the influence? Is it legal to boat and drink? is it legal to even drink in public? Is it legal to drink under 18? Is it legal to sell alcohol unlicensed?Well, with silly laws like that, I should not make assumptions, it is illegal here to drink in a alcohol public street. If a person exhibits extremely drunken behaviour in a bar here, the establishment can be fined for continuing to serve them!!

Obviously it doesn't go far enough. There are still thousands of people dying each year from it, including innocent people who die because someone else was drunk.

Society has to move at the pace of it's slowest member right? You want to ban fireworks when they don't even kill 50 people per year, alcohol kills thousands.

There are rules on fireworks by the way.

So why should I be against alcohol when there are laws and rules to ban it from situation that are likely to get others hurt? The bans are in place. They apply to specifics as is necessary. Imagine the death toll without these rules and regulations!!!!!

The laws don't go far enough, thousands of people are still dying because of it, obviously we should ban it completely for the greater good of society.

Go read through all the post that I quoted you saying in my last post, and then please realize that you have absolutely no argument. I am using your logic in this post.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Someone has a stupid idea - while sober they go "well that's a silly idea" and move on with their day being all common sense-y and not doing patently idiotic things.

Now, lets add the idiot juice to the equation.

The same person has a stupid idea - BRILLIANT lets do that.

What has changed for this person?

They're still having stupid ideas, but their ability to go "nope, this is a stupid idea" has been removed by an outside factor. Without the booze, they'd never have thought the stupid idea was a good idea.

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DieChecker

I do not think it would be that hard, you just have to legislate companies as well as people is all.

And - enforcing it in all three nations is the general idea mate.

It is not "all too hard" it is achievable, look, give me Obama's detail's, Ill talk to the man.

You might be surprised to find out how many people care. The elderly, farmers, and animal breeders largely hate them.

I would admit that fireworks, which are consumable, and go bad quickly, could be legislated at the production level, unlike guns which can be handed down for generations.

But, millions of people fire them off every year, so wouldn't that create a huge black market, and crime lords, and money going to criminals, instead of to government taxes? If people are going to use them anyway, then why shouldn't we allow them to use them responsibly, with minor restrictions? Isn't this the same logic that allows for marijuana to become legalized? People aren't hurt by fireworks if they use them correctly. Same with pot. Used incorrectly pot can hurt animals, children, careers, relationships......

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lightly

it was tragic and sad, and incredibly stupid .

* maybe a warning sticker on fireworks ... something like,

[ Warning! Lighting fireworks on top of your head may cause injury or death ]

Edited by lightly
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DieChecker

And put on firecrackers... "Warning: This is not a cigarette!"

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OneWanderingSoul

It seems that by far the most of the posters on this thread seem to be in agreement that the population as a whole should not be punished because of ONE who died by doing something completely stupid while intoxicated, yet we have ONE arguing with the lot of us because he thinks we are all wrong and he alone is right.

Umm........ we can't fix stupid my fellow members with common sense, let us move on and stop feeding into the stupidity here.....

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