Philip Klass-The UFO Curse

[Hawken]

I did a search to see if there was a topic on Philips Klass's ufo curse and couldn't find any so I thought

I would bring it up. Mr. Klass was a famous debunker of the ufo phenomena. He even put in his last will

and testament that ufologist never get the mystery solved on the phenomena. Now that puzzles me.

Even though Skeptics and Believers have different views on the phenomena, I thought the goal was to

solve the mystery of the phenomena whether if it turned out Mundane or Extraordinary.

Here's a link. http://highstrangenessshow.com/the-ufologist-curse-of-philip-j-klass

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Sounds like a bitter old man full of venom.

[S2F]

Sounds like a bitter old man full of venom.

Sounded a bit tongue in cheek to me...

[psyche101]

Sounded a bit tongue in cheek to me...

Exactly

He was a target for UFOlogy because he broke the fantasy. A very smart man, and UFOlogy does not seem to understand how much credibility it owes to Phil Klass.

It is more than "skeptics like him believers do not"

Phil was not always right with initial assumptions, but one thing he did was get the ball rolling each time, he forced people to think when they preferred not to.

[Hawken]

Exactly

He was a target for UFOlogy because he broke the fantasy. A very smart man, and UFOlogy does not seem to understand how much credibility it owes to Phil Klass.

It is more than "skeptics like him believers do not"

Phil was not always right with initial assumptions, but one thing he did was get the ball rolling each time, he forced people to think when they preferred not to.

I always thought one's last will and testament was a family matter for loved ones to view and find out what they inherited and such.

To mention his opponents that he dealt with in his occupation and wish ill will towards them seems to be begrudging and harbor a lot

of malice. Sounds like he didn't want the ufo mystery solved regardless of the outcome if it was mundane or extraordinary.

[psyche101]

I always thought one's last will and testament was a family matter for loved ones to view and find out what they inherited and such.

Indeed, have you not heard of the adage "you give what you get"?

To mention his opponents that he dealt with in his occupation and wish ill will towards them seems to be begrudging and harbor a lot of malice.

Or he like me, had a warped sense of humour, and sledged others. Do you realise how MUCH UFOlogy hated Phil Klass? Even today, the childish UFO websites are still hurting from his blunt attacks on their fantasy musings!!

Have a read of this paper by Klass, it illustrates his main opponent's arguments, James McDOnald.

LINK

McDonald was an outright clown who did everything he possibly could to stonewall Klass and his more down to earth hypotheses that put McDonald's fantasy musings into perspective. He even went to far to to write to McDonald's superiors to make them look at the wasteful stupid work he was blowing taxpayer money on. McDonald took offence and proposed a 20 million dollar investigation into UFO's and banded together with cronies to quash Klass' plasma research, which was picked up again in the mid 90's by the MoD who stated it was extremely beneficial and most likely does answer a large part of the UFO question. McDonald knew this, but wanted to play Cowboys and Aliens and used every influence he had to hold back real progress, but hey, that's UFOlogy for ya!

Sounds like he didn't want the ufo mystery solved regardless of the outcome if it was mundane or extraordinary.

I honestly cannot fathom how you would come to such a conclusion when he pushed people to look harder and better. The answers did not make sense, aliens were a stupid conclusion for the events described in most cases, so there simply had to be another answer. Klass threw those answers at a wall until one stuck. He did not try to make one answer fit, he tried many answers until one did fit.

UFOlogy does not seem to realise that Klass forced UFOlogy into critical thinking. Without Klass' involvement, UFOlogy would have even less credibility than it does today. I think the people who have a problem with his curse have simply realised it is true, and they are barking up the wrong tree. Phil wanted UFOlogy to come to it's senses more than anyone I would think. After all, pretending lights in the sky are aliens have not got us anywhere.

Edited July 13, 2015 by psyche101

[S2F]

After all, pretending lights in the sky are aliens have not got us anywhere.

I think that was Klass's point, that if UFOlogy continues down the same path using the same mindset and methods they won't ever find any answers. I think that was the message he wanted to leave behind.

[bee]

.

some interesting bits and bobs about Klass in this link -

http://www.ufocasebo...df/klassfbi.pdf

This file contains the releasable portions of the FBI files on Philip Julian Klass provided to

CUFON by Washington, DC area researcher Michael Ravnitzky. Some pages were not released

and some material in the released pages has also been redacted. The decision to withhold

material on the grounds of the b1 exemption (classified national security information) has been

appealed.

This snippit is on page 21 - - (if you put the cursor in the bottom area a bar will come up showing page info)

Now - it doesn't specify the subject of the 'unauthorized publication of classified information' - - because it's classified, I suppose

But -

how did Klass get hold of classified information ? -

if he didn't have access himself ... who gave it him .?...and why.?

many believe that Klass was more of a professional debunker rather than the hobbyist he claimed

to be regarding the subject of UFO/ET -

.

[Hawken]

There are people out there that don't want mysteries solved. Whether if it's UFOs, Bigfoot or Jack the Ripper. If it was solved,

not only would the thrill be gone, but more likely no dollars would be generated. Both Skeptics and Believers have capitalized

on the subjects from writing books, attending seminars to appearing in documentaries. Even Philip Klass has writing several

books on it.

[bee]

I think that was Klass's point, that if UFOlogy continues down the same path using the same mindset and methods they won't ever find any answers. I think that was the message he wanted to leave behind.

Klass doesn't come across as the type of personality that wanted to help people and leave a message to that effect at his death -

the 'curse' seems more like him gloating - and IF he was a professional debunker - then he might know that forces- perhaps

powerful forces 'in the know' - were never going to let the General Public in on the real nitty gritty info....

(that's why we are left to try and figure it out for ourselves - with mainly the whistleblower testimony to go on as a guide..)

.

[bee]

.

UFOlogy does not seem to realise that Klass forced UFOlogy into critical thinking.

Without Klass' involvement, UFOlogy would have even less credibility than it does today. I think the people who have a problem with his curse have simply realised it is true, and they are barking up the wrong tree. Phil wanted UFOlogy to come to it's senses more than anyone I would think. After all, pretending lights in the sky are aliens have not got us anywhere.

ditto what I said to S2F - Klass doesn't seems to be an 'all heart' type of character -

that wanted to HELP 'UFOlogy' come to it's senses -

his hard hitting (and sneaky?) methods probably spurred his targets on to 'get him back' -

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/philip-klass-and-his-letter-writing.html

What I should have said originally is that Klass (seen here) routinely caused trouble for the witnesses, researchers, investigators and believers in UFOs by writing letters to their families, friends and employers and that he harassed them periodically when they didn’t respond to him as he thought they should.

????

PS - -

.

[ChrLzs]

...Without Klass' involvement, UFOlogy would have even less credibility than it does today.

Wait... is that even possible..?????

[bee]

Wait... is that even possible..?????

Good evening ChrLzs -

Don't forget that if the (cue spooky music) - powers that be - want to keep something dead secret - they will do all they can to discredit a subject -

by fair means or foul -

and that would involve sometimes actually playing the part of UFOlogists to take the subject into areas that can be easily ridiculed -

infiltrating organisations to weaken them from the inside would be a common thing I think -

???

[bee]

There are people out there that don't want mysteries solved. Whether if it's UFOs, Bigfoot or Jack the Ripper. If it was solved,

not only would the thrill be gone, but more likely no dollars would be generated. Both Skeptics and Believers have capitalized

on the subjects from writing books, attending seminars to appearing in documentaries. Even Philip Klass has writing several

books on it.

good points

edit to say - Good Morning

(think I've got the time zone pleasantries right to you and ChrLzs)

modern technology eh .....

.

Edited July 13, 2015 by bee

[Hawken]

Sounds like a bitter old man full of venom.

I'm surprised you said that Hats being a skeptic of the phenomena. But you sound like a man that calls it as he sees it.

[Hawken]

good points

edit to say - Good Morning

(think I've got the time zone pleasantries right to you and ChrLzs)

modern technology eh .....

.

When you posted, the time in my area was 7:47am CT Monday mourning. So you got it right.

[Leo Krupe]

Tongue in cheek is right. I met Klass at a convention, and bought his book "UFO Abductions -- A Dangerous Game." This would've been 1989-1991, sometime around there, when I was involved in a relatively local skeptic's group. He inscribed the book for me, writing, "May you be spared."

20+ years on, and I have been. Thanks to good ol' Uncle Phil.

[Astra.]

Klass was a man who debunked and discredited Ufology -

but believed in curses ?

[ChrLzs]

Don't forget that if the (cue spooky music) - powers that be - want to keep something dead secret - they will do all they can to discredit a subject - by fair means or foul -

and that would involve sometimes actually playing the part of UFOlogists to take the subject into areas that can be easily ridiculed -

That's fair enough, and there have been a few faux ufologist pretenders here that I can't believe were doing anything other than deliberating making a mockery of the topic.

However, all gubmint's record in keeping things secret for more than a few years is not good, and I'm pretty sure if they were paying folks, somebody would eventually squeal or give it away. That reminds me, did I get last month's cheque? I did some good work, I thought. Bee, did you get yours?

Edited July 14, 2015 by ChrLzs

[psyche101]

There are people out there that don't want mysteries solved. Whether if it's UFOs, Bigfoot or Jack the Ripper. If it was solved,

not only would the thrill be gone, but more likely no dollars would be generated.

That is ufology in a nutshell.

Do you honestly feel that UFOlogy actually has a case???? You actually think these clowns chasing their tails screaming Aliens and cover ups actually have anything to their claims?????? UFOlogy blinkers information to make sure it is steered in a certain path.

Why do you feel a bunch of rank amateurs taking wild pot shot guesses based on pop culture are on the same playing field ss the serious professionals such as meteorologists, physicists, evolutionary biologists and astrobiologists? They do not have the same skill sets, the opportunities to utilise complex analysing equipment, the library of discoveries and experience and the known parameters of science?

Both Skeptics and Believers have capitalized on the subjects from writing books, attending seminars to appearing in documentaries. Even Philip Klass has writing several books on it.

Do you realiser what Klass' job was? He was a senior editor of Aviation Week & Space Technology for thirty-four years. He was a writer, that is what he did to earn a living. His engineering degree came in handy as a technical assist when he was presented with these wild claims.

Why wouldn't a writer write books?? One of 34 years experience and employment as such?

[Leo Krupe]

That is ufology in a nutshell.

Do you honestly feel that UFOlogy actually has a case???? You actually think these clowns chasing their tails screaming Aliens and cover ups actually have anything to their claims?????? UFOlogy blinkers information to make sure it is steered in a certain path.

Why do you feel a bunch of rank amateurs taking wild pot shot guesses based on pop culture are on the same playing field ss the serious professionals such as meteorologists, physicists, evolutionary biologists and astrobiologists? They do not have the same skill sets, the opportunities to utilise complex analysing equipment, the library of discoveries and experience and the known parameters of science?

Do you realiser what Klass' job was? He was a senior editor of Aviation Week & Space Technology for thirty-four years. He was a writer, that is what he did to earn a living. His engineering degree came in handy as a technical assist when he was presented with these wild claims.

Why wouldn't a writer write books?? One of 34 years experience and employment as such?

Wasn't it also known as Aviation Leak & Space Technology?

[Hawken]

Klass was a man who debunked and discredited Ufology -

but believed in curses ?

Good point. Never thought of that one. He probably paid a Voodoo Shaman to curse UFOlogist.

[psyche101]

Good point. Never thought of that one. He probably paid a Voodoo Shaman to curse UFOlogist.

From one level down to another huh?

I guess this displays the actual mentality of Klass' detractors?

Not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer.

As you do not seem to understand his tongue in cheek curse, you know he had a similar challenge while he was alive too? He offered to pay anyone ten thousand dollars, which was rather substantial coin back in the late 60's, for any solid actual proof of alien visitation.

The "curse" is an extension of his challenge which was not met in the 39 years that it was available to all. What else can you do when you are dead?

Those who deride Klass are simply so far below his academic levels that his real world explanations he offered seem mysticism. Ignorance can be cured, it is more a true conundrum as to why so many refuse it.

Or are you realizing you too will suffer his curse now?

I think Klass was just so above UFO heads that they still have not understood what he gave them. All the halfwits who think he destroyed UFOlogy do not realise if it was left up to some moron like McDonald then today, UFOlogy would be akin to the Easter Bunny.

[psyche101]

Klass was a man who debunked and discredited Ufology -

but believed in curses ?

Does that not itself explain the nature of the curse????????

He did not discredit UFOlogy, he discredited the ETH, his UFO work was picked up by the MoD in the mid nineties and was realised as very valuable, and would certainly explain away many UFO claims. Klass simply labeled UFO's as "plasmoids" a general term referring to many types of plasma formation.

That is why UFOlogy had Klass plasma work quashed, McDonald was trying to get 20 million dollars to lavish on his own alien chasing venture. And that is just another reason why UFOlogy hates Klass. He reported McDonald's folly to McDonalds superiors, at the end of the day, McDonald did not get 20 million to splash out on his venture. Klass proved that McDonald had misappropriated funds for UFO fantasies before too including a trip here downunder.

Klass had Class. No two ways about it. UFOlogy fears Klass. If it had a leg to stand on, it would not fear him.

[Hawken]

Do you realiser what Klass' job was? He was a senior editor of Aviation Week & Space Technology for thirty-four years. He was a writer, that is what he did to earn a living. His engineering degree came in handy as a technical assist when he was presented with these wild claims.

Why wouldn't a writer write books?? One of 34 years experience and employment as such?

Yes Klass had money to throw around. Putting up $10,000 rewards and making bets with Stanton Freidman.

BTW, he lost that bet with Friedman.