The disappearance of Ray Gricar (Part 2)

[RMP]

Lara was adopted. I've read where Ray's face would light up anytime Lara was mentioned.

No offense docya, but I'm not following what you're getting at.

[docyabut2]

16 hours ago, RMP said:

Lara was adopted. I've read where Ray's face would light up anytime Lara was mentioned.

No offense docya, but I'm not following what you're getting at.

I just saying maybe he got another girl pregnant, he would have his first child and planned to go away with her.  

[SuperSmith]

2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I just saying maybe he got another girl pregnant, he would have his first child and planned to go away with her.  

That’s an extreme reach IMO but who knows. None of us have the answers 

[RMP]

2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I just saying maybe he got another girl pregnant, he would have his first child and planned to go away with her.  

He had every right to do that if that would be the case. But he'd need money. That pension would sure be handy.

Only thing we know definite that he was alive when he left the courthouse the evening of 4/14.

 

[SuperSmith]

2 hours ago, RMP said:

He had every right to do that if that would be the case. But he'd need money. That pension would sure be handy.

Only thing we know definite that he was alive when he left the courthouse the evening of 4/14.

 

Like I said a major reach. He was 59 years old and any other potential woman would’ve been in the vacinity of his age too. 

Ray Gricar was murdered. Nothing else makes sense in my mind. He was by all accounts a very prim, proper, and responsible man. That in of itself takes suicide and walk away out of the equation for me. 

Sucide scenario-no body or signs prior

Walkaway scenario-for what? Why? And why not wait 8 months, collect his pension, and ride off into the sunset without all the attention?

This was foul play people. The only question is The Who, the how, the why, and where.  

You all are free to discuss your other scenarios though.  This is where I’m at and have been for a long time. 

[RMP]

Here's my guess.

It's been said Ray was distraught for a time prior to his disappearance.

My A theory is either he had a change of heart about the relationship due to being around PF so much.  This due to working and living with her. He discussed this after work in the park with her on 4/14 then went back to the CH to breathe and do some work. He returned home that night and that was it. She would have needed help with the body, car and phone call, which were all manageable with an accomplice.

My B theory is that someone was out to get Ray and he either stumbled on it or was flat out notified by the perpetrator. The perp mentioned harming his loved one's if he didn't agree to meet or if anyone was told. He finally told PF the night before in the park but said you must stay quiet. 

Theory C is similar to B. Ray was lured toward Lewisburg with the promise of game changing info on a particular case. He had been talking with this informant for awhile and sensed the danger. Ray told Patty of the potential danger the night before. Ray made the meeting place the SOS lot and pulled in to find a car waiting. He parked beside the car, got out of the mini and into the other. That was it.

I don't know. It's just some theories.

Edited March 12, 2019 by RMP

[docyabut2]

19 hours ago, SuperSmith said:

Like I said a major reach. He was 59 years old and any other potential woman would’ve been in the vacinity of his age too. 

Ray Gricar was murdered. Nothing else makes sense in my mind. He was by all accounts a very prim, proper, and responsible man. That in of itself takes suicide and walk away out of the equation for me. 

Sucide scenario-no body or signs prior

Walkaway scenario-for what? Why? And why not wait 8 months, collect his pension, and ride off into the sunset without all the attention?

This was foul play people. The only question is The Who, the how, the why, and where.  

You all are free to discuss your other scenarios though.  This is where I’m at and have been for a long time. 

Then why was his body ever found?

[SuperSmith]

1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

Then why was his body ever found?

People are convicted of murder every day, week, & month in this country without a body being found.

[RMP]

2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Then why was his body ever found?

If he was killed why would his body necessarily need to be found?

Especially if the perp is staging it to look like something else.

[RMP]

Hope everyone enjoyed their weekend. Everything seems to have gotten real quiet.

[RMP]

Well I guess this topic is officially comatose.

[SuperSmith]

There’s just no where to go with it unless remains are found or he resurfaces obviously 

[fromthedeepestjungle]

I do think you all were givin something that u could use to find the real truth ( blonde) Friday morning with him RG in mini (PFO) like (JLO) laughing and I c here in Centre County pa that VW is running for commissioner again she was in the park and another person is running exaros as to Lewisburg 2005 time frame there was construction going on in that area also the road he turned onto

[SuperSmith]

23 hours ago, fromthedeepestjungle said:

I do think you all were givin something that u could use to find the real truth ( blonde) Friday morning with him RG in mini (PFO) like (JLO) laughing and I c here in Centre County pa that VW is running for commissioner again she was in the park and another person is running exaros as to Lewisburg 2005 time frame there was construction going on in that area also the road he turned onto

Jungle, this is a straight question that only deserves a yes/no. In your opinion do you believe the blonde was Emma Gricar?

[RMP]

On 5/12/2019 at 8:21 PM, fromthedeepestjungle said:

I do think you all were givin something that u could use to find the real truth ( blonde) Friday morning with him RG in mini (PFO) like (JLO) laughing and I c here in Centre County pa that VW is running for commissioner again she was in the park and another person is running exaros as to Lewisburg 2005 time frame there was construction going on in that area also the road he turned onto

You talk like you know something.

[lw-intuit]

Another anniversary come and gone with still not a clue as to what happened to Ray Gricar.

Jungle, I am going to repeat Super Smith's question with a bit more, do you think the blonde you saw in the car that morning was Emma Gricar, Lara Gricar, or a Centre County 'blonde'?  Still curious after all this time as to what you saw.  Thanks, if you feel like answering.

[RMP]

Seems no one is interested anymore intuit.  I wish Jungle would just say what he's getting at. It's hard to decipher the babble.

[micahc]

1 hour ago, RMP said:

Seems no one is interested anymore intuit.  I wish Jungle would just say what he's getting at. It's hard to decipher the babble.

I haven't thought of this case in years.  I am not sure English is jungle's first language. a bit hard to understand.  I came to a conclusion some time ago it was a suicide. I don't know if it was in the river, or he walked up into the hills around and killed himself. he was at the end of his career. His brother committed suicide. I think there was indication his adopted daughter was not close to him. She could move far enough away.  I think he was very sad but didn't share it.  that is how I saw it.

[MAV1962]

Glad to see that there are at least a few people still here.  I waster 40 minute listening to the True Crime Garage  episode 1. I didn't finish because the "walkaway" theory was going to be the outcome and I just couldn't go there. 

Does anyone know if there are other active forums anywhere?  

[lw-intuit]

If there are any active forums regarding Ray, I haven't run across them.  Happy to see we still have a connection on this board and wish there were some new evidence coming out.   If anything ever does, we still have this point to return to in order to discuss the case.  It's hard to believe it's been 15 years now and nothing new.  Likewise the "walkaway" theory is nothing I adhere to either but then every theory in this case has it's points, even if I don't agree with them. 

 

[MAV1962]

You always were the kindest person on this board and the old one. 

[MAV1962]

On 7/25/2015 at 8:16 PM, mbrn30000 said:

here is someone timeline:

· April 14, 2005 - Gricar's office door is forcefully closed several times mid afternoon per a colleague. Gricar had a habit of forcefully closing his door per a colleague.

· April 14, 2005 - Gricar and girlfriend Patty Fornicola are seen walking in Tallyrand Park by a Centre County Commissioner approx 5:30pm. Gricar is described as "depressed looking" as neither he nor his girlfriend respond to a compliment of being the perfect couple. The Commissioner cannot recall what Gricar or Fornicola were wearing during this walk (office attire or casual clothing.)

· April 14, 2005 - Gricar is seen in courthouse surveillance video entering the courthouse at approx 6:15 pm to do some work, and is seen leaving approx 9:15 pm. He is wearing blue jeans, sneakers and a blue fleece jacket. He is not carrying his laptop computer. This is the same outfit he is reportedly wearing when missing.

· April 15, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola states that Gricar woke up and told her he was going to take 1/2 the day off from work and then he went back to sleep. She left him a note instructing that if he went anywhere, to let her know so that she could make arrangements to let the dog out at noon.

· April 15, 2005 - A call is placed to girlfriend Patty Fornicola at the Centre County courthouse at approx 11:30 am from Gricar's cell phone indicating that he is on Highway 192 (heading toward Lewisburg) and that he is taking the other 1/2 of the day off from work, and that he would not be home at noon to let the dog out. Several other office employees were out of the office or not working that day.

· April 15, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola arrives home from work at approx 5:00pm and Gricar has not left her a note as she reportedly expected, and she heads to the gym. Normally she and Gricar would always go out to eat at the Gamble Mill Inn each Friday. It’s reported that Fornicola thought he had maybe stopped somewhere to eat when he wasn’t home at this time.

· April 15, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola does not phone Gricar's family or friends, but phones her brother Tom Fornicola at approx 8:30pm as she is worried because Gricar has still not arrived home.

· April 15, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola phones Bellefonte Police at approx 11:30pm to report Gricar as missing. Policeman Holliday contacts chief of police Duane Dixon who advises to send a message to other area police departments.

· April 16, 2005 - Bellefonte Policeman Darrel Zaccagni is assigned the case and begins working the case approx 11:30am with a BOLO, and initiates air & ground searches from Centre Hall to Madisonburg along Hwy 192, and girlfriend Patty Fornicola notifies Gricar's family members by phone that he did not come home the prior evening. Clerical staff at the courthouse provides Gricar's computer password and police look at his office computer for any signs/clues. It’s reported that Patty Fornicola is monitoring Gricar’s email accounts (as she knows the passwords.)

its not attributed but it's link is https://sites.google...gricar/timeline

so he went to work after the walk in the park according to this. he worked quite some time for someone who was offing himself the next day. I would be at a bar.

Worth looking at this timeline again.  The only thing we know for sure is that someone used Ray's phone on 4/15 at 11:30 and that someone wearing clothes similar to what he had one the night before  was seen in Lewisburg with the car.  There's absolutely nothing that says Ray was alive after he was last seen, either at the end of his workday, 4/14 or after  Patty left for work. He could have been killed in the home and the car taken to stage his "disappearance."  Killer(s) could have also taken the laptop for staging, as well.  I'm not convinced he ever went on that trip.

[MAV1962]

April 2020 longform article on Ray's disappearance, with interesting interviews, especially with the "informant."  It's behind a paywall but you can can log in with FB or Google without subscribing. 

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/the-hunt-for-ray-gricar-15-years-of-clues-theories-and-the-search-for-answers.html

[lw-intuit]

Thanks, Mav.   I would have missed that article if not for your posting it.  

[MAV1962]

It's interesting. And thankfully it minimizes the "walkaway" theory.