The disappearance of Ray Gricar (Part 2)

[docyabut2]

Maybe  he did not want to be a lawyer  any more,  Ray Gricar went missing.I just saying maybe he got a girl pregnant, he would have his first child and planned to go away with her. The last witness that saw him and with another girl in a Antique store, in Lewisburg where his car was parked

his body was never found if it was suicide or murder.

Edited May 24, 2020 by docyabut2

[MAV1962]

He was a few weeks from retirement. We don't know for sure if he was seen, but in any case, the female was described as a "woman," not a girl. And of course, if he got a woman pregnant, he could have just broken up with his girlfriend at the time and then done what he pleased, with a pension and Social Security to live on. 

[micahc]

5 minutes ago, MAV1962 said:

He was a few weeks from retirement. We don't know for sure if he was seen, but in any case, the female was described as a "woman," not a girl. And of course, if he got a woman pregnant, he could have just broken up with his girlfriend at the time and then done what he pleased, with a pension and Social Security to live on. 

he was at an age where suicide is high for men.  retirement for some is terrifying.  his brother committed suicide. It doesn't seem he was particularly close to his adopted daughter.  I don't see a walk away.   I do think he committed suicide.  

[lw-intuit]

4 hours ago, MAV1962 said:

He was a few weeks from retirement. We don't know for sure if he was seen, but in any case, the female was described as a "woman," not a girl. And of course, if he got a woman pregnant, he could have just broken up with his girlfriend at the time and then done what he pleased, with a pension and Social Security to live on. 

With neither a pension or Social Security being drawn from, it was either suicide or murder, IMO, not a walk-away.  If it was his choice to leave, why leave all that money behind?  Doesn't make any sense.

[lw-intuit]

4 hours ago, micahc said:

he was at an age where suicide is high for men.  retirement for some is terrifying.  his brother committed suicide. It doesn't seem he was particularly close to his adopted daughter.  I don't see a walk away.   I do think he committed suicide.  

I thought he was quite close to his adopted daughter.  I also don't see walk-away but I also don't think it was suicide.  Still not ruling anything out at this point in time.  

[docyabut2]

He must have picked up someone, there was cigarette ashes in his car and he wasn't a smoker. So maybe it was that woman he was with in the Antique store.

[micahc]

13 hours ago, lw-intuit said:

I thought he was quite close to his adopted daughter.  I also don't see walk-away but I also don't think it was suicide.  Still not ruling anything out at this point in time.  

I guess I don't know how they felt about each other, but she did live nearly 3000 miles away, so that might have added to his loneliness.  I do get the feeling he was melancholy towards the end. He was seen out at a lake, perhaps doing some thinking.  Suicide rates go up as we age https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2019-06-20/suicide-by-race-age-in-the-us

I don't think he drown himself, but I wonder if he had access to a gun.  I also am confused why he had so few assets and how the authorities determined all his funds were accounted for.  

[wijg]

36 minutes ago, micahc said:

but I wonder if he had access to a gun

 

As a District Attorney, there is a 100% chance he had access to a gun. Whether or not he kept one in his home is another story (I may have had notes on this somewhere... gosh, it's been so long... hi everyone!). Not sure what the law is in PA, but it's likely he didn't even need a permit to carry given his position. In many states, law enforcement (including DAs) are exempt from needing permits to carry concealed.

[lw-intuit]

5 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

He must have picked up someone, there was cigarette ashes in his car and he wasn't a smoker. So maybe it was that woman he was with in the Antique store.

In spite of those saying he was in the antique store, it remains doubtful that it was him.  No proof unless person seeing him there actually knew him and not identified by a photo.

The ashes in a car that he would never let anyone smoke in is more indicative of someone else being in the car other than Ray.

[lw-intuit]

26 minutes ago, wijg said:

 

As a District Attorney, there is a 100% chance he had access to a gun. Whether or not he kept one in his home is another story (I may have had notes on this somewhere... gosh, it's been so long... hi everyone!). Not sure what the law is in PA, but it's likely he didn't even need a permit to carry given his position. In many states, law enforcement (including DAs) are exempt from needing permits to carry concealed.

IF he had a gun, it seems likely that Patti would have known that fact and indicated at the time that the gun was missing.  I don't recall any mention of such by her.

[wijg]

Btw, I may have a new lead...

Remember the security footage from the courthouse (the last footage of Ray) that I clipped frame-by-frame? Here it is as a refresher:

Remember the jeep? Remember how we couldn't decide whether or not the jeep was "passing through" or if it was parking in the lot? Well I can say with near 100% certainty it was NOT passing through, as the other street was not accessible (that blue rectangle is a handicap/van accessible parking spot... if there were an exit there, that spot would not be there). There was only one way in, one way out from the parking lot (High St entrance/exit). Also, every single space in that back lot is marked "reserved", presumably for courthouse staff (we couldn't really read what the signs said before, now we can since Google Earth has updated HD photos of the town).

 

So... That jeep that came into the parking lot mere seconds after Gricar almost certainly parked in the lot... in a reserved spot near the southwest corner of the lot. Could just be someone else coming in to do work late like Ray. But that would be a heck of a coincidence considering he pulled in just seconds after Ray. And remember, he looked over that direction, both when he arrived and when he left.

[lw-intuit]

1 hour ago, micahc said:

I guess I don't know how they felt about each other, but she did live nearly 3000 miles away, so that might have added to his loneliness.  I do get the feeling he was melancholy towards the end. He was seen out at a lake, perhaps doing some thinking.  Suicide rates go up as we age https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2019-06-20/suicide-by-race-age-in-the-us

I don't think he drown himself, but I wonder if he had access to a gun.  I also am confused why he had so few assets and how the authorities determined all his funds were accounted for.  

Up until a couple of years prior to disappearance, his salary wasn't that much since he was considered part time, IIRC.  Considering he had a nice home in Boalsburg/State College area prior to moving in with PF, in addition to likely helping his daughter with college, his monies prior to seem to be spoken for.  After moving in with PF, he paid off her mortgage as well as buying her the MiniCooper, so that likely took much of his money he had in equity in his house.  Any additional seems to be in that which was left to Lara, IIRC, $125K.  I don't see how he could have possibly had any more than that.  Costs a lot to live, even alone, in a nice home.  With a pension and Social Security upon retiring, I doubt that he felt he needed a great deal more than that to live comfortably.  

[lw-intuit]

8 minutes ago, wijg said:

Btw, I may have a new lead...

Remember the security footage from the courthouse (the last footage of Ray) that I clipped frame-by-frame? Here it is as a refresher:

Remember the jeep? Remember how we couldn't decide whether or not the jeep was "passing through" or if it was parking in the lot? Well I can say with near 100% certainty it was NOT passing through, as the other street was not accessible (that blue rectangle is a handicap/van accessible parking spot... if there were an exit there, that spot would not be there). There was only one way in, one way out from the parking lot (High St entrance/exit). Also, every single space in that back lot is marked "reserved", presumably for courthouse staff (we couldn't really read what the signs said before, now we can since Google Earth has updated HD photos of the town).

 

So... That jeep that came into the parking lot mere seconds after Gricar almost certainly parked in the lot... in a reserved spot near the southwest corner of the lot. Could just be someone else coming in to do work late like Ray. But that would be a heck of a coincidence considering he pulled in just seconds after Ray. And remember, he looked over that direction, both when he arrived and when he left.

Correct, only one way in and out of the lot and all reserved spaces.  I recall your posting the still shots but can't recall if the jeep occupant(s) went into the courthouse.  Did they?  Thanks!

[lw-intuit]

Here  is the link to the Bellefonte Police report which I always found interesting considering, RG was seen going into the courthouse on April 14th at 6:15, leaving at 9:15 pm and the police report states missing date as 4/14.  That is only a less than three hour timeframe.  

https://sites.google...site/raygricar/

Edited May 26, 2020 by lw-intuit

[wijg]

Just now, lw-intuit said:

Correct, only one way in and out of the lot and all reserved spaces.  I recall your posting the still shots but can't recall if the jeep occupant(s) went into the courthouse.  Did they?  Thanks!

We don't know if they went in or not... the security cam footage I had came from the episode of Disappeared which featured Ray's case. It only has snippets from when he entered the lot and then entered the building, and then 3 hours later when he left. So if they came in after Ray, it was likely cut out. Heck, it's possible LE already identified the owner of the jeep and figured it was nothing. But I think there's something there. It caught Ray's attention when he came in. And he looked that way when he left as well.

Anyone ever get a chance to talk to Steve Sloane???? He had a bunch of interesting stuff on his Facebook account that was all public for a long time, including a photo of Ray and Emma looking quite cozy at a NYE celebration with Steve and his wife mere months before he disappeared. That was quite interesting to me.

[RMP]

Good to see some activity. I thought of this forum in the members that have been conversing when I read the Penn Live article. Obviously none of us know it is true other than the informant. With that said I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Especially considering that he said in the article he wanted the family to have some peace. I imagine being involved in something like this would sure way on one's conscience and maybe as the informant gets older you he realizes that the family should indeed have that piece. I don't know just my two cents.

[MAV1962]

I'm glad to see activity, too.  It would be nice if others from came back.

 

On 5/26/2020 at 2:08 PM, wijg said:

So... That jeep that came into the parking lot mere seconds after Gricar almost certainly parked in the lot... in a reserved spot near the southwest corner of the lot. Could just be someone else coming in to do work late like Ray. But that would be a heck of a coincidence considering he pulled in just seconds after Ray. And remember, he looked over that direction, both when he arrived and when he left.

wijg,  I remember you raising this issue way back when.  I think it's significant, first of all because this is our last confirmed public sighting of Ray. Second, there is that walk that Ray took with Patty, where they seemed somber and not responsive to the person who spoke to them.  Third, we have the evidence of the cigarette in the Mini Cooper. I'm putting aside the sighting at the antique shop; we have no EVIDENCE he was seen there. We just know the car was there. So these three points (Ray at work that last night perhaps meeting with or simply encountering someone there,  the seeming "off" walk with Patty, and the evidence that someone who smoked was in the car, suggests that these are points that a thorough investigation would cover.  We only know what Patty SAYS Ray said in the phone call when he was on the phone.  Did investigators take her report at face value?  For all we know Ray lied to her about where he was and what he was doing (and I"m not suggesting that he was involved in some affair, although that's possible.  He may have been meeting with someone he thought was sketchy, dangerous or perhaps in danger that Ray wanted to keep away from his family and colleagues. I don't think for a minute that Ray committed suicide. It's quite a trick to hide your own body, for one thing. And walkaway was always ludicrous. So something was going on with Ray.  The question I have is who he told.  Did he tell the person in that jeep?

[RMP]

MAV I'm not sold on that jeep completely. Could it be a key? Sure. Could it just have been a loud jeep pulling in that Ray noticed? Sure. It could have been someone coming in for something. The cig ashes in the mini- could have been someone in the car or someone leaning in talking to Ray. The walk- that sure makes you think that something was going on. Maybe Ray made Patty swear to not mention what they discussed that night for her own safety. The call- it was indeed made from Ray's phone and bounced off those towers along route 192. The story told by the "informant" makes sense as to why the car was parked in the SOS lot. If I recall correctly it said that the car was parked there and Ray went with the woman in her car. Could have been that they drove back there after they killed him and put his phone and keys in it.  Just some thoughts. 

Whatever happened was incredibly well thought out for sure. At this point I just hope that the family can get some kind of closure.

[MAV1962]

We know the call to Patty came from Ray's phone, but we don't know what he said. We know that Patty told police her version of what he said. And we don't don't what LE has withheld.  The big problem of internet speculation... It's possible Ray was minimizing. It's possible he was already under the control of someone else. It's possible that Patty lied or left things out. I've always wondered if Ray was actually alive when he left Bellefonte.  That would not necessarily implicate Patty, since she went to work. So much rests on that phone call. 

[SuperSmith]

I think there is some roots to the Emma vs Patty scenario. Why has Emma kept the “Gricar” name all these years even though they legally divorced, had no kids, and with her being with someone else? Strange 

[2-B]

So, long time, MJ no see. Haven’t read through all the pages, apologize if this has been posted, but it just showed up in my mail today. Takeaways:

1. There’s a documentary in the works.

2. “The Informant’s” story is pretty consistent with known evidence (which isn’t proof, but it’s something an eager police investigator could revisit, 

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/the-hunt-for-ray-gricar-15-years-of-clues-theories-and-the-search-for-answers.html?outputType=amp

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by 2-B
Typo

[lw-intuit]

Thanks for the link to the article, 2-B.  I think many of us are still here but all still as confused or conflicted on what could have happened to Ray Gricar.  It remains a mystery to this day.

[docyabut2]

Nora Prentiss (1947

A nightclub singer inspires a doctor to fake his own death, leading to plenty of complications.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039666/

Just viewing this movie ,could be Ray Gricar  was faking his death to leave his family, just for another women

 

[SuperSmith]

Hey folks, hope everyone is healthy and well.

Buckle up as Rebecca Knight finally has something to say and apparently a lot. 
 

https://raygricar.com/episodes/

 

[MAV1962]

I just saw this podcast last night and listened to the episodes that are up as of this morning.  Let's talk about it. Did you sign up for member access?