The disappearance of Ray Gricar (Part 2)

[RMP]

22 hours ago, SuperSmith said:

I believe she was mentioned early on as one of the eye witnesses. The “Packwood House” witness but the podcast gives an interview with her full account. lw, we’ve been waiting a long time for something in this case and Rebecca is trying. 
 

I hope you check out her podcast episodes and let us know what you think. Interesting take so far and I can see where she’s headed with this. I fear it’s a dangerous path for her though. 

If you happen to be a member of the Facebook community if you do a search for final argument podcast you will find her page on this. She has already received a death threat and I believe she said she's. Some other occasional nasty messages.

[lw-intuit]

On 12/15/2021 at 11:31 PM, SuperSmith said:

I believe she was mentioned early on as one of the eye witnesses. The “Packwood House” witness but the podcast gives an interview with her full account. lw, we’ve been waiting a long time for something in this case and Rebecca is trying. 
 

I hope you check out her podcast episodes and let us know what you think. Interesting take so far and I can see where she’s headed with this. I fear it’s a dangerous path for her though. 

OK!  I listened to all of the podcasts twice and definitely remember early on the eyewitness at the Packwood House.  Glad Rebecca got a full interview with her hense leaving no doubt RG made it to Lewisburg that day. I also remember the mention early on of his being seen walking in that park.  I have my own theory about why he was there, but it's in a different direction than the Sandusky case. I would be curious to talk to her about some things, particularly an eyewitness report that LE received, yet I hear nothing of it in Rebecca's podcast.  I am wondering if it was extracted from the files she got to look at and copy.  If so, possibly LE is keeping some info close to their chest in the event new evidence is found that ties in.   

[MAV1962]

I just listened to Episode 6 of the podcast and I'm gobsmacked that Centre County was offered detectives from Montgomery Co. and probably elsewhere in PA, at no cost, and they turned that down. 

[tjtennispro]

Is this thread still active? I’ve got a lot to say about research I’ve been doing. The one question I’ve got it who is JJ in Phila? He seems to be a disinformation expert that someone paid to lie on another forum. 

[tjtennispro]

 

 

Board of trustees of Second Mile paid to have Ray Gricar removed in 2005. Hired a mob crew to kill and dispose of him but make it look like a suicide like his brothers (which wasn’t a suicide either) 

 

The Second Mile Charity finances disappeared under investigation for years 2004-2006. Under investigation by Bruce Castor. 

 

 

Bruce Castor was investigating the Second Mile financial records and was removed by Jake Corman and those files disappeared. Jake Corman was the fixer. 

 

Mark Smith was involved in the cover up as well. Tom Corbett was involved. Lance Shaner, Cliff Benson and Bruce Beemer were also involved. 

[tjtennispro]

Douglas County Sheriff's documents say that Delmont Vreeland an informant knows what happened to Gricar

[tjtennispro]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:02 PM, MAV1962 said:

I've been an agnostic on the "Street of Shops" sightings, which have been usually used to argue that RG was having an affair as a motive for "walk away."  Knight has a pretty plausible explanation for not just one meeting at an antique store site but several of them that involve different women, none of whom appear to be intimate with RG. So taken with the fact that he took the laptop with him, I think she's right that he was meeting people off the books, so to speak. I'm not sure that it about the Sandusky case but if he met people in different counties at different places, that's a pattern. What it means is the question.

The other intriguing point she makes is that there are lots of things the public doesn't know. I might also point out that the dumpster fire RG thread Over Yonder is busy debunking the very idea that the case is related to Sandusky.  That usually means, to me, that certain people don't want that to be a focus. 

Bob Buehner also claims to know some stuff, although he's taking a different tack. But both Buehner and Knight agree with the common sense conclusion that RG was murdered. By whom and why are the interesting questions.  It would be nice if people came back to discuss the podcast.

 

Bob agreed with Rebecca he just said those things about the drug connections because he feared for his life. Which was taken. 

[lw-intuit]

2 hours ago, tjtennispro said:

Douglas County Sheriff's documents say that Delmont Vreeland an informant knows what happened to Gricar

Who is he?  Never heard of him before.  

[lw-intuit]

2 hours ago, tjtennispro said:

Douglas County Sheriff's documents say that Delmont Vreeland an informant knows what happened to Gricar

Douglas County is in 12 states, none of which are PA.  So is the sheriff that of one of the 12 states and not PA?

[tjtennispro]

1 hour ago, lw-intuit said:

Douglas County is in 12 states, none of which are PA.  So is the sheriff that of one of the 12 states and not PA?

Correct this isn’t Pennsylvania. The TSM

wasn't just Pennsylvania. Child trafficking is nationwide 

[tjtennispro]

1 hour ago, lw-intuit said:

Douglas County is in 12 states, none of which are PA.  So is the sheriff that of one of the 12 states and not PA?

 

[tjtennispro]

1 hour ago, lw-intuit said:

Douglas County is in 12 states, none of which are PA.  So is the sheriff that of one of the 12 states and not PA?

DelmartVreeland_DCSO directory listing
DelmartVreeland_DCSO directory listing
https://archive.org/details/DelmartVreeland_DCSO

Edited June 15, 2023 by tjtennispro

[tjtennispro]

Also raygricar.com was taken down today when it worked yesterday. 

[SuperSmith]

On 6/14/2023 at 6:20 PM, tjtennispro said:

Is this thread still active? I’ve got a lot to say about research I’ve been doing. The one question I’ve got it who is JJ in Phila? He seems to be a disinformation expert that someone paid to lie on another forum. 

It has been the theory of many in the various threads that he is in fact that.

[SuperSmith]

On 6/14/2023 at 10:24 PM, tjtennispro said:

Also raygricar.com was taken down today when it worked yesterday. 

I see that .  The group Rebecca created is still up but she still has yet to post the finally episodes that she promised in April.  Where’s the refund line?

[SuperSmith]

On 6/14/2023 at 6:23 PM, tjtennispro said:

 

 

Board of trustees of Second Mile paid to have Ray Gricar removed in 2005. Hired a mob crew to kill and dispose of him but make it look like a suicide like his brothers (which wasn’t a suicide either) 

 

The Second Mile Charity finances disappeared under investigation for years 2004-2006. Under investigation by Bruce Castor. 

 

 

Bruce Castor was investigating the Second Mile financial records and was removed by Jake Corman and those files disappeared. Jake Corman was the fixer. 

 

Mark Smith was involved in the cover up as well. Tom Corbett was involved. Lance Shaner, Cliff Benson and Bruce Beemer were also involved. 

Whoa! This is an excellent post.  Can it be proven? 

[wijg]

I have long believed that Ray was taken out either by organized crime or by the intelligence community.. either he got in too deep with TSM, or he got in too deep investigated Roy's death (I've been to the site of Roy's alleged suicide... I do not believe it for a second).

 

Roy Gricar didn't kill himself. Ray Gricar didn't kill himself. Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself.

[tjtennispro]

On 6/29/2023 at 4:07 PM, SuperSmith said:

Whoa! This is an excellent post.  Can it be proven? 

Yes- I started taking a major interest in this case around May 2022 via Final Argument podcast. I listened, then listened again, then again. Until I discovered all the Easter Eggs that Rebecca lays out in the podcast. This is what she actually says in the podcast but you’ve got to really focus and write things down and then listen again. 
 

I’ve discovered quite a bit more than above through various other places. I’ve read through these threads just recently but I noticed over time that J.J in Phila was actively steering the investigation in ways that are completely illogical. He is 100% a liar. Websleuths has fairly strict standards for being an insider I do know that from past experience. He/she I think it’s a he past their test but it’s not a family member. 
 

I’m trying to get a very established researcher to help me out even more than they are which could really help out.

I’m determined to discover the identity of JJ in Phila. 
 

I personally think it’s a possibility that what Ray discovered was that Sandusky was not the actual pedophile he was made out to be but he was going to be setup as the fall guy to advance political careers and cover up the transgression of some poor behavior involving TSM and blackmail they had on politicians and others in the community. 

[tjtennispro]

On 6/29/2023 at 4:23 PM, wijg said:

I have long believed that Ray was taken out either by organized crime or by the intelligence community.. either he got in too deep with TSM, or he got in too deep investigated Roy's death (I've been to the site of Roy's alleged suicide... I do not believe it for a second).

 

Roy Gricar didn't kill himself. Ray Gricar didn't kill himself. Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself.

I agree with everything you said. Roy, Ray nor Epstein killed themselves. A body was discovered on Friday in the Great Miami River that was severely decomposed. I found that odd but probably a coincidence. I have a hard time believing a body could surface 28  years later. 
 

if Roy was indeed working at Wright Patterson and we know kids were somehow involved well maybe we’ve got us some small interesting connections. The entire idea of Russias charm school is ironic considering America has the same program. Organized Crime and Intelligence services are generally one and the same. You’ve got a charity that trafficked young boys. Two brothers that were murdered in plain sight and their killings taunted in our face. Ray was protective of his daughter for a reason. She was obviously threatened. His brother threatened. He kept assets out of his name in attempts to shield himself from being blackmailed. 
 

Rebecca Knight had multiple threats against her life. I don’t believe DA BB death was a natural one either. This case is massive and TPTB will protect themselves at all costs. 
 

the identity of JJ will go along way figuring out what happened. He was either involved or is being paid by someone who was. His story of what might of happened rings way too true for me. 
 

 

[tjtennispro]

On 8/17/2021 at 10:05 PM, MAV1962 said:

 

I would like more details about this remark. Who is the colleague? I seem to recall that she gave an approximate date for Gricar's remark about Sandusky. If Gricar actually told someone he intended to "nail" Sandusky, that makes the connection between the "women" Gricar met with and Sandusky more believable. I wonder, too, why we haven't heard more about these other meetings in antique stores in different counties. 

DA BB was the colleague 

[wijg]

On 7/1/2023 at 2:16 AM, tjtennispro said:

I’m determined to discover the identity of JJ in Phila. 
 

 

It's no secret who he is. His name is Jonathan M. Jacobs. Used to work for the government but has lived on disability for a few decades now. He is a parliamentarian and freelances in that small niche by consulting on parliamentary procedures (i assume hiring himself out to politicians and companies with boards of directors/bureaucracies... which should tell us something). A lot of us have suspected for a long time he is a paid shill whose job it was to steer people away from the truth.

Do not take this the wrong way, but if you did not know that already, then you still have a lot of catching up to do. This might help: if you go back and read previous posts from the last decade, we often referred to him as "BD" (short for "Blogger Dude"). We've known who he is for a long time.

New eyes, ears, and brains are always appreciated on this case. I myself gave up after many years obsessing over this case. When this thread became active again, I myself had to go back and read a bunch of things to refresh my memory. I still lean towards murder. It really is a shame that Ray and his family may never get the justice they deserve.

Edited July 3, 2023 by wijg

[wijg]

Quick question for anyone still lurking here... I know Ray was raised Catholic and attended Catholic schools, but does anyone happen to know if he still practiced? Just curious.

[wijg]

Something I just thought about... if we accept the premise that he was indeed murdered, then most would agree that someone had to have later "staged" the car (sans laptop) to make it  appear as a situation similar to his brother's alleged suicide (which I don't believe was a suicide, but we've been through all that)...

In my opinion, that rules out a mob hit. I don't see any button men going to the lengths to do background research into his family and then "staging" the car carefully to lead some people to associate it with the circumstances similar to his brother's death. That's not their MO... they'd dispose of the body (they are good at that) and then dispose of the car (take it to a chop shop, dump it into lake far away, or something similar). They wouldn't go deep into his family history, sleuthing around in a library looking at old articles from the Dayton Daily News (imagine mobsters sitting in a library looking at a bunch of microfilm of the DDN... lol), to decide how to best stage a suicide (most button men don't know jack about their victims... its that way on purpose... less chance of getting caught, and the less you know, the less likely you are to implicate the bosses). I also don't see the mob returning to Lewisburg a few months later to throw the laptop into the Susquehanna.

So I'm officially ruling out mob hit. The two scenarios are either 1) someone who knew him well enough to know some specific details of his brothers' death (beyond the single detail of "he drowned himself"), or 2) state actors (rogue cops, intelligence service, or something like that). Someone with access to files about him and his information and who decided staging a suicide or walkaway would send people on a wild goose chase. Also, someone so invested in those narratives that they decided to return to Lewisburg months later to throw the laptop in the river.

Mob hit is a "no" for me. Intelligence agencies were always a far-fetched theory for me, but after what happened to Epstein, I'm giving that much more consideration now. I honestly can't believe I'm saying this now. That's where I'm at though.

[wijg]

On 6/14/2023 at 10:12 PM, tjtennispro said:

Correct this isn’t Pennsylvania. The TSM

wasn't just Pennsylvania. Child trafficking is nationwide 

Tom Henry... there's an attorney from Omaha, NE (Douglas County) that matches.

Boys Town connection? I once had a theory that TSM was the "successor" to Boys Town after Boy Town started receiving scrutiny. 

[tjtennispro]

48 minutes ago, wijg said:

Tom Henry... there's an attorney from Omaha, NE (Douglas County) that matches.

Boys Town connection? I once had a theory that TSM was the "successor" to Boys Town after Boy Town started receiving scrutiny. 

Yes The Franklin Scandal and Boys town are connected with Francis Sheldon and North Fox Island and Oakland County Child Killer.