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mbrn30000

The disappearance of Ray Gricar (Part 2)

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Saunterer

Saunterer... are you implying that SPM may have somehow been involved? Or are you just saying that since she's privy to more information as the DA, that you hope she'll reveal some of what she learned? Just curious. Thanks.

The latter; SPM is aware of everything turned over to the PSP and, because I know how diligent she is, keeps tabs on the PSP investigation.
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Saunterer

Old friends:

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docyabut2

This case has become very clear to me, Ray never drove that car to Lewisburg, the dogs did`nt find any scent of him ever leaving that car.Patty made up the whole story. I can believe he is dead some where near his home and some day they will find him, if they ever would do a little more searching.

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wijg

Doesn't appear the image posted properly... so I apologize for posting it again if some can view it... but anybody with a legal background willing to make sense of this?

w9pGVe0.png

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docyabut2

Doesn't appear the image posted properly... so I apologize for posting it again if some can view it... but anybody with a legal background willing to make sense of this?

w9pGVe0.png

its seems like its a withdrawal of a case of a prosecutors and there are many of those Edited by docyabut2
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cutter99

No real legal background here, but this is my interpretation of the above. Defendant was caught stealing from a Unimart. She was sentenced and part of the sentencing was paying restitution. Restitution was not paid so now they are going after her for collections.

I did note the date of 4/20/2005 with Ray Frank Gricar listed. I wonder if this case was already in the works at the time he disappeared and because it was wrapped up only 5 days after his disappearance, and no one knew what was going on in reference to him, his name was left on the case. Looks to me like the defendant is from Montoursville, Lycoming County, PA.

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cutter99

Looks like as part of the guilty plea the defendant was given two years probation in addition to restitution. The theft occurred in Ferguson Township, Centre County. There are 3 Uni Marts in Ferguson Township.

I think Ray's name was used to file the original charges, and that was done early April 2005, before he disappeared. I do find it odd that his name appears on this case as I cannot see that Ray himself would have prosecuted it. Too small time, too minor for the district attorney himself to be trying. My guess would be that it is clerical oversight that his name is still on the file. I am wondering too if it was clerical oversight that the restitution, a minimal $100, is still outstanding 10 years later!

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2-B

SPM calls for Grand Jury

Parks Miller detailed the cases that she was interested in investigating as “drug trafficking, corrupt organizations and unsolved disappearance cases,” but declined to elaborate because of confidentiality rules surrounding grand jury matters.

Centre County’s most famous unsolved disappearance, coincidentally, is former District Attorney Ray Gricar, who vanished in April 2005. There are a small number of unsolved murders in the area, including cold case deaths of Penn State students Betsy Aardsma in 1969 and Dana Bailey in 1987.

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2015/08/04/4861954/centre-county-da-wants-judge-to.html#storylink=cpy

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cutter99

There are many more people missing from Centre County- Joey Lynn Offutt, Brenda Condon, Cindy Song, Jennifer Shadle.

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wijg

I do find it odd that his name appears on this case as I cannot see that Ray himself would have prosecuted it. Too small time, too minor for the district attorney himself to be trying.

That is the first thing that jumped out to me about that docket. I've been working backwards through all the Centre County dockets and finding the cases Ray handled, and this is something Smith or Marshall would have usually handled. Way too small time for Ray.

The fact that he was "served" a petition on 1/28/15 is even more intriguing. As I understand it, in order to be listed on a docket as having been served any sort of document, one must have acknowledged service of the document. I could be wrong, or it could be a clerical error. But I find it hard to believe Judge Kistler wouldn't pay attention to whom the petition was to be served.

Furthermore, of all the cases I've gone through thus far (I started at April 2005 and have worked backward through 300 cases thus far, only a handful of which were prosecuted by Ray), this is the only one that has his name appear in any filings/receipt of filings post 2011 (when he was declared legally dead). His name started disappearing from most documents around 2007 (for those cases that were still ongoing after his disappearance, that is). I will note that 300 isn't a ton of cases, all things considered, but I plan in knocking out another 300 tomorrow, as well, so perhaps I'll have a few more Gricar cases to compare this filing against.

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cutter99

I went back and pulled documents from a case in 2004 that I was familiar with that went through the Centre County court system, and Ray's name was not listed on it in any documentation. Ray was most definitely the DA at the time.

The whole thing is odd! I cannot believe his name would not stick out to anyone reviewing the paperwork!

ETA- Is there a possibility that this case fell through some cracks in the system due to Ray's absence? I also find that hard to believe as there is NO WAY he should have been prosecuting a tiny case like this! Is the fact he is listed on there part of the reason restitution was not paid?

Edited by cutter99
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docyabut2

its seems like its a withdrawal of a case of a prosecutors and there are many of those

To add the way I`m reading it, prosecutors Gricar and Mcrum are commanding a withdrawal of a petition to the probation broad , because this person Kister `s penalty was satisfied.

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cutter99

To add the way I`m reading it, prosecutors Gricar and Mcrum are commanding a withdrawal of a petition to the probation broad , because this person Kister `s penalty was satisfied.

Jamie Nicolle McCrum is listed as the defendant, and Thomas King Kister is listed as a President Judge in Centre County.

Page 5 states case was returned from collections in error.

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wijg

so... what's everyone think of SPM's petition for a special investigative grand jury to invesitagte “at least one unsolved murder, and a recent series of cases the scope of which cannot be determined without the powers granted to a county investigating grand jury.”

http://www.centredaily.com/2015/08/04/4861954_centre-county-da-wants-judge-to.html?rh=1

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2-B

Wijg--

I thought going through cases was too much for the BPD to attempt. Sure you're up for it? :-)

(Side note: going through cases was not too big a job for that small Texas PD I mentioned recently, and doing so solved three related murders, so applause for wijg!)

Not a lawyer, but this appears as part of the printed form:

Neither the courts of the Unified Judicial System of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania nor the Administrative Office of Pennsylvania Courts assume any liability for inaccurate or delayed data, errors or omissions on these reports. Docket Sheet information should not be used in place of a criminal history background check which can only be provided by the Pennsylvania State Police. Moreover an employer who does not comply with the provisions of the Criminal History Record Information Act may be subject to civil liability as set forth in 18 Pa.C.S. Section 9183.

This disclaimer re inaccuracies makes it sound as if inaccuracies are not necessarily unlikely--or maybe that's just a CYA paragraph.

Interesting that the 4/20/05 arraignment was cancelled. While this seems like an unusual case for the DA to prosecute, was the cancellation a result of Ray's absence? Just spitballing since any number of things might have caused that.

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2-B

so... what's everyone think of SPM's petition for a special investigative grand jury to invesitagte “at least one unsolved murder, and a recent series of cases the scope of which cannot be determined without the powers granted to a county investigating grand jury.”

http://www.centredaily.com/2015/08/04/4861954_centre-county-da-wants-judge-to.html?rh=1

When I posted the link to the SPM article last night, I figured I should review my knowledge of the grand jury system in PA, some of which had been discussed years ago re the Gricar case and then again when the GJ made its (rather flawed) presentment in the JS case.

Here's a nice lay men's overview provided by a local attorney:

Grand Jury Investigations in America

Grand juries are an ancient legal institution, used for centuries as a way to investigate criminal allegations before they reached the courts. The grand jury provides a populist filter, allowing ordinary citizens to determine whether the government has enough evidence to proceed with criminal charges. This traditionally took the form of indictments, criminal charges that issued from the grand jury itself. But grand juries have fallen out of use in most places around the world. The federal government still uses them, as do most of the states, including Pennsylvania. But in a number of places, grand juries no longer issue indictments. This includes Pennsylvania, where grand juries use their investigative powers to help prosecutors rather than charge defendants.

Grand Jury Investigations: The Grand Jury and the Investigation in Central Pennsylvania

Pennsylvania’s “investigating grand juries,” as they are known, are made up of 23 people, with between seven and 15 alternate members — much larger than the typical jury in a criminal or civil case. They serve by county and they are called into service at the initiative of each county’s district attorney or, in some cases, the state attorney general’s office. Investigating grand juries serve for 18-month terms, with one six-month extension possible if a majority of the members believe they haven’t completed investigating relevant matters. Generally speaking, a Pennsylvania grand jury has the power to investigate any alleged crime brought to its attention by the district attorney or the court. This can include any fact learned during witness testimony.

http://www.manchesterandassociates.com/criminal-law/white-collar-crimes/grand-jury-investigations-attorney-in-central-pennsylvania/,

What strikes me here: I could be wrong (and have been), but from this summary it would appear that if SPM were to use the Grand Jury in Ray's disappearance, she would have to do so based on the belief that an alleged crime occurred.

An adult voluntarily leaving is not a crime, unless he/she leaves after having committed a crime (embezzlement, murder, whatever) or unless he/she commits a crime while in flight (such as in the case of the Runaway Bride, who lied to authorities about a kidnapping). In 10+ years, we've not heard a whisper of a suggestion that Ray committed any crime.

Committing suicide is not a legal crime.

So it would seem to me, and again, I could be wrong, that to use the GJ in Ray's disappearance, she would have to backpedal more significantly than she has from her walkaway position (I don't consider her "anything is possible" stance on foul play as a ringing endorsement of that position) and argue that she believes a crime was committed in his disappearance.

Perhaps some legal type will disabuse me of my reading of this, but that's what I get out of it.

Edited by 2-B
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cutter99

Any idea which "unsolved murder" this is in reference to? Can't be Ray because we do not know for sure he is dead!

ETA- Can't be Betsy Aardsma. They have thought for years they knew who did it and he has since died! Wouldn't it be a little strange to convene a grand jury at this late date?

Edited by cutter99
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2-B

Any idea which "unsolved murder" this is in reference to? Can't be Ray because we do not know for sure he is dead!

ETA- Can't be Betsy Aardsma. They have thought for years they knew who did it and he has since died! Wouldn't it be a little strange to convene a grand jury at this late date?

Dana Bailey would be the first name that comes to mind (other than Betsy) when it comes to unsolved murders. She was killed in her downtown apartment, where her killers gained entrance from the rooftop into her lkitchen, IIRC, then tied her to a chair and killed her. That was 1987, and I can remember articles about the murder where Ray spoke out on the crime. I remember a friend of mine whose last name began with a "C" worried there was some killer loose who was committing the Alphabet Murders....Aardsma, Bailey, C----. It was a spooky time.

Two others are possible (though not proven as murder). Brenda Louise Condon's disappearance has never been solved and the prevailing view is that she was murdered. Similarly, Cindy Song's disappearance is unsolved, but in that case, unlike in Ray's, Ferguson Township re-classified it as a potential homicide investigation, saying she had registered for the next semester's classes and put computer parts on order, so it was therefore unlikely she had committed suicide or run off. Cindy's DNA is on file to match against any remains that might be found.

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2-B

Here's one of the early articles about Dana's murder that contains a fair amount about Ray as well. If memory serves (and 1987 is a long time ago), Ray took some hits for not divulging more details about the investigation at the time. From an LE perspective, I can understand holding back specifics while the investigation of a brutal murder was going on. IIRC, it was later revealed that her mother found her. I hope I'm not confusing that with another case. Or maybe I do hope I am. An awful thing for a mother to find.

http://m.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_10bceff5-65ed-58eb-8147-1baae9be898c.html?mode=jqm

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SuperSmith

Her one quote indicated "at least one murder" and another quote says "an unsolved disappearance" which wouldn't nessasarily mean a murder. I don't know which she means or perhaps both.

That being said I have my doubts it RG simply because of the shear time that had passed......unless new information came to light. She could've asked for a GJ in RGs case long ago.

I don't know how it works however with PSP being the lead investigative unit if they would go back to her if they found something new and then she would petition the court.

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docyabut2

Gee guys I just don`nt see the disappearance of RG connection to any of his cases. If some one had a grudge they would have knock him off in town, not follow him out of town and then do it, and how did anyone even know he was going on that trip, when he supposing just woke up and decided not to go to work and go on that trip.

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2-B

Her one quote indicated "at least one murder" and another quote says "an unsolved disappearance" which wouldn't nessasarily mean a murder. I don't know which she means or perhaps both.

That being said I have my doubts it RG simply because of the shear time that had passed......unless new information came to light. She could've asked for a GJ in RGs case long ago.

I don't know how it works however with PSP being the lead investigative unit if they would go back to her if they found something new and then she would petition the court.

If she's considering using the GJ in Ray's case, then I think this would speak to what I mentioned a few posts back--a change in her position that "anything is possible" when speaking of foul play in his case. That change, if it hypothetically occurred, may have come about as a result of 1. her task force and/or 2. the hand-over to the PSP.

Condon and Song are even older unsolved disappearances than Gricar. The only more recent county disappearance that remains unsolved (unless I'm forgetting something obvious) is Jennifer Cahill-Shadle. Cahill-Shadle hasn't received a great deal of media attention, but there are some potential hints of possible foul play in her disappearance. I'm not sure how LE has classified that case--I should see if I can find out about that.

ETA: This is the Ferguson Township page with the one year update on Cahill-Shadle, which appears to still list her as a missing person:

http://www.twp.ferguson.pa.us/index.cfm?fuseaction=content.pageDetails&id=58660&typeID=40326

Edited by 2-B

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cutter99

Sadly, Jennifer Shadle's estranged husband and children have worked very hard to make it look like she walked off, although her parents and extended family feel otherwise. I firmly believe there is foul play involved in her disappearance.

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2-B

Cutter--I agree. As in Ray's case, no phone or banking activity. After a year plus, that's incredibly suspicious.

I think people fail to realize how difficult voluntary disappearance is in the digital age. Listen to/read what private investigators have to say, and it's clear that the old days of "vanishing without a trace" are pretty much over.

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