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Varelse

Hillary has already "won" the Dem Nomination

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Yamato

The level of venom directed at Obama indicates far more than a disagreement about his policy platform.

Br Cornelius

And usually far less.

.

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Yamato

She's got at least 16 indictable offenses uncovered thus far, and the FBI investigation this week is broadening, not winding down. One of those indictable offenses is a broad (and serious) breach of US Code that in essence covers lying to or misleading authorities (like the FBI). That particular code subsection is the one that sent Martha Stewart to prison for five months for something that has far fewer serious implications than what Hillary is being investigated for.

How many more indictable offenses will be discovered and whether she will actually be indicted remain to be seen. The Clintons have a long history of getting away with stuff. But she is certainly on the worse side of "worse than average."

So, it's the land of the Code and the home of the Bureau. Besides, nothing gets the old-guard-R blood flowing down there like a perjuring Clinton. Oh, Monica!

Other than lying to greasy politicians like that's some mortal sin beyond the pale of lying to your friends and neighbors, do you have any policy disagreements with the HRC? Not State Dept. paperwork policies that were handed down by other people before her that you're suddenly interested in, but specific policy positions and ensuing departmental changes of Secretary Hillary Clinton herself. Do you have any? Are they illegal? Do you know what they are, or was it just something she said?

Powell-UN-e1360080576232.jpg

Sec. Colin Powell, talking some serious smack to another bureau. But what are war crimes, when you got emails?

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Merc14

Despite what many people say, Obama hasn't been the worst president by a long margin.

There is a lot going on with people's assessment of his record and its not really impartial.

He inhereted the most broken economy that America has ever seen and he stopped what was potentially going to turn into a great depression MK2, given that circumstance he was never going to look anything but mediocre on the economic front. Also there was no possible way that he could have done anything on the foreign front given the mess of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars he inherited. The mistake he did make regarding foreign policy was to let the NeoCon foreign policy agenda rumble along for far to long - he should have been far more firm with regard to setting a different kind of foreign policy and on that he was very weak in the face of entrenched foreign policy hawks in the pentagon.

A lot of people never wanted to see a Black President and would never accept one as a good President whatever he did. He was far from great, but also far from the disaster some people claim.

Br Cornelius

Br. Corny enters this conversation by throwing the race card. What a cowardly and ignorant thing to do. Truly disgusting behavior but hey, look to the source and shouldn't surprise anyone.

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ellapenella

@Yamato, I don't understand? why are you jumping her ? Why are you drilling her about Hillary ? You know Hillary is a liar .

Edited by Ellapennella

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ellapenella

I agree. I'm disappointed in some of Rand's cutting programs for people that need them, and pandering to homophobic zealots, but comparing those shortcomings to the rest of the GOP, he still is probably the best of them.

Bernie of course, will always be my huckleberry.

I want to agree with you , but the comment added in about pandering , I can't agree with that. i don't see him as pandering to what you said.

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mbrn30000

Despite what many people say, Obama hasn't been the worst president by a long margin.

There is a lot going on with people's assessment of his record and its not really impartial.

He inhereted the most broken economy that America has ever seen and he stopped what was potentially going to turn into a great depression MK2, given that circumstance he was never going to look anything but mediocre on the economic front. Also there was no possible way that he could have done anything on the foreign front given the mess of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars he inherited. The mistake he did make regarding foreign policy was to let the NeoCon foreign policy agenda rumble along for far to long - he should have been far more firm with regard to setting a different kind of foreign policy and on that he was very weak in the face of entrenched foreign policy hawks in the pentagon.

A lot of people never wanted to see a Black President and would never accept one as a good President whatever he did. He was far from great, but also far from the disaster some people claim.

Br Cornelius

republicans suffer dementia when it comes to the bush presidency. Its called Convenient Onset Bushzeimer Dementia. It will be in the DSM 5 manual

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Frank Merton

Politics is worse than religion when it comes to people making false, rash, rude, and propagandistic statements about public figures. People, I hate to tell you this but they are all just people, with varying points of view, not demons come to earth to torment us.

What I've seen on this thread is a group endorsing those probably least likely to prevail, simply because they are most out of touch with reality.

I guess this is why I don't really think representative democracy is a very good system. It provides the government a cover of legitimacy ("duly elected") but does not even come close to electing the best people -- and the statements posted above prove why.

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Merc14

Politics is worse than religion when it comes to people making false, rash, rude, and propagandistic statements about public figures. People, I hate to tell you this but they are all just people, with varying points of view, not demons come to earth to torment us.

What I've seen on this thread is a group endorsing those probably least likely to prevail, simply because they are most out of touch with reality.

I guess this is why I don't really think representative democracy is a very good system. It provides the government a cover of legitimacy ("duly elected") but does not even come close to electing the best people -- and the statements posted above prove why.

Thanks for your worldly input Frank, the fact that you haven't a clue of what you speak only adds to the importance of your wise words. LMFAO. Please go look up sanctimonious and then think about it.

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Frank Merton

Thanks for your worldly input Frank, the fact that you haven't a clue of what you speak only adds to the importance of your wise words. LMFAO. Please go look up sanctimonious and then think about it.

Thanks for the insults. I think you are the ignorant one, blinded by your own inability to see that there are always more than one side to a question, even political questions. My vocabulary is adequate to already know the meaning of "sanctimonious." I would prefer being that to being a political hack.

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Merc14

BTW, the words most associated with Hillary Clinton in the US is liar, dishonest and crooked. Go look it up. Your preaching about American politics is infantile and your attitude is obsequious towards the Clintons. All good words to describe a person who doesn't know anything about what they are talking about yet feels free to insult and abuse people who discuss the subject for the perspective of years of experience. BTW, not even democrats support you because they know what she is as well.

BTW, "political hack"? Go look up arrogance as well.

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Frank Merton

BTW, the words most associated with Hillary Clinton in the US is liar, dishonest and crooked. Go look it up. Your preaching about American politics is infantile and your attitude is obsequious towards the Clintons. All good words to describe a person who doesn't know anything about what they are talking about yet feels free to insult and abuse people who discuss the subject for the perspective of years of experience. BTW, not even democrats support you because they know what she is as well.

BTW, "political hack"? Go look up arrogance as well.

I guess you hope if you throw enough mud some of it will stick. It won't work with me. Accusing the leading Democrat and probable next president of being a liar and so on is standard propaganda. I've seen it all my life. No wonder the country is so unhappy with its leaders, since all they do is accuse each other of all sorts of things.

She is a politician, and has done some things I might describe as distasteful, but then I have myself too. You can accuse me of arrogance all you want -- I get that from time to time -- it is amusing. So what if I'm arrogant. I am smart enough to see raw dirty politics when I see it, so I have you beat heads down on that.

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Frank Merton

Oh maybe I should tell you what a political hack is -- in the Vietnamese context we call them party hacks. These are low-level officials who think the best way to get ahead is to turn off their brain and just spout whatever the current party line might be. It might be you are a Republican party hack, although the phenomenon is uncommon in the states where you don't have party discipline.

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Space Commander Travis

Thanks for the insults. I think you are the ignorant one, blinded by your own inability to see that there are always more than one side to a question, even political questions. My vocabulary is adequate to already know the meaning of "sanctimonious." I would prefer being that to being a political hack.

You're so naive Frank. Everything is the fault of the Dems. Everyone knows that.

Actually in this case I do agree with the argument that anyone but the leading Democratic candidate would be preferable, but the constant banging on about Obama and the Dems we see from some people in particular really is wearing blinkers on a grand scale; how do these people explain the record of the President who came before Mr. O? Do they try to excuse the utter disasters that he was responsible for?

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Space Commander Travis

The level of venom directed at Obama indicates far more than a disagreement about his policy platform.

Br Cornelius

the amount of drivel is quite astonishing. There are some people that really do believe that he's a communist who was only foiled in his vile plot to impose a socialist dictatorship by the rightwingers that valiantly fought him every inch of the way. Every time I see the word "Liberal" or , even more, "Socialist" mentioned in any of these kind of threads I can only laugh because the people using them really do not have a clue what these things actually are.
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Space Commander Travis

Br. Corny enters this conversation by throwing the race card. What a cowardly and ignorant thing to do. Truly disgusting behavior but hey, look to the source and shouldn't surprise anyone.

so all the "Birther" nonsense was not at all racially motivated, no. :no:
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Space Commander Travis

you're right, I do wish she doesn't win. I do I do I do ...

I'd much rather see Trump in the Big Leather Swivel Chair, believe me ...

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Frank Merton

I'd much rather see Trump in the Big Leather Swivel Chair, believe me ...

She would do fine I think; she is experienced, pragmatic, intelligent, and well connected (which does have a role to play). The people posting here seem to want ideological purity (a guaranteed disaster when elected) and no record (anyone who has any record has made mistakes). Obamacare is now the law and is something America needs, and I think she just might be able to make it work, in spite of some of the obscene compromises that were made to get it passed.

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Space Commander Travis

I think the woman could be indicted and even convicted and most Dems would still vote for her. It has gotten THAT crazy. The country seems balanced on a knife's edge and is slowly toppling to the left. Anyone who can vote for this woman, knowing everything about her, is no patriot. They are more about shoving the knife into the "other" than being concerned with the overall health of our nation. And if the trend continues we may become like ancient Rome. THOSE knives weren't metaphorical....

Left? Clinton? whatever does she have remotely to do with the Left? She's every bit as strongly neocon as anyone who was in the Bush Administration
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mbrn30000

Cruz is proof the birther movement is racially motivated.

The neocons would not consider Hillary one of them.

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Merc14

Hey Frank, it isn't the republicans investigating Hillary, it s the FBI and it isn't a witch hunt it is a criminal investigation that has just been widened as more violations have come to light. As I said, please educate yourself before making ignorant comments. Norbert, even democrats are laughing at you.

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Space Commander Travis

,,, blah...

Norbert, even democrats are laughing at you.

Regarding what exactly? Would you care to elaborate, or are you just throwing around insults because you're bored?

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mbrn30000

Regarding what exactly? Would you care to elaborate, or are you just throwing around insults because you're bored?

he is just throwing insults. he knows that is my job. I want to see his green card.

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Merc14

Regarding what exactly? Would you care to elaborate, or are you just throwing around insults because you're bored?

Let/s start with the destruction he has wrought on your party, the democrats. The following is from well known liberal hack Chuck Todd:

Well, let’s start with Congress. Since 2009, Democrats have lost a net of 13 Senate seats and a whopping 69 House seats. Now let’s put this in some historical context.

You have to go all the way back to Eisenhower to match this many losses for a party that controls the White House with Senate seats, 13 of them.

And in the House, it’s been 100 years since a two-term president’s party suffered worse losses. That was Woodrow Wilson and the Democrats, 99 House seats.

Let’s go to the state level with President Obama. Under him, Democrats have lost control of 12 governorships, including just this past week in Kentucky.

Plus they’ve given up 30 state legislative chambers. And ready for this? Over 900 state legislative seats. No administration since Nixon-Ford saw

more governor and state legislative chamber losses in the president’s own party.

How about Obama's miraculous recovery from the recession. Uh, no that is a myth as well. As per Forbes:

The right measure and comparison for Obama’s record is not to compare the recovery to the recession, but to compare Obama’s recovery with other recoveries

from other recessions since the Great Depression. By that measure, what is clear is that Obamanomics has produced the
worst
recovery from a recession since

the Great Depression, worse than what every other President who has faced a recession has achieved since the Great Depression.

read the article here

How about debt. Obama called Bush's admittedly abominable debt increase of $4T unpatriotic so certainly Obama wouldn't ad to that debt, right? Uh nom, once again he has not only added to it he has outdone every prsident before him with little to show for it:

At the end of 2008, the accumulated total of all US Deficits for all administrations since 1789 was $5.3 Trillion. For the six years 2009 through 2014, the Obama

Administration has racked up an impressive $6.3 Trillion in deficits which are now more than all of the accumulated deficits before he took office.

Article here

BTW, the above has gone WAY up since the article was posted in March. Obama is slated to have $20T in total debt before leaving office.

Surely employment has been blockbuster? Uh, no in fact Obama has one of the worst employment records in US history

The 102.159 million Americans not working in December is not the all-time record of Americans not working. That all-time record was set in October, 2013, at 102.896 million.

The employment-population ratio that month was an even more pitiful 58.2%.

Article here

but it is a year old and thing have only gotten much worse. I just don't have teh energy to look as it is all so depressing.

Br. Corny says mentioning the above is racist and I am sure you find it all quite boring but no matter where you look Obama has failed. Foreign policy? Wow, it is a a massive mess and nothing but a series of mistakes compounding mistakes and Frank's heroine orchestrated many of these debacles while SecState. It isn't just right wiongers that see this, it is democrats as well as evidenced by teh massive election losses served up to the DNC since Obama has taken office. Now his healthcare legislation is in shambles and will need to be gutted and restructured no matter who takes officein 2016. Please, feel free to laud us all with Obama's accomplishments since taking office but stick tt the facts and to reputable sources (hint, Mother Jones is not a reputable source. LMAO)

Edited by Merc14
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Space Commander Travis

Well, (A) My party, the democarts? and (b ) I've never argued that he isn't out of his depth and inept, but then, most of them have been. However, that's a long way from saying that he's the worst there's ever been. For that, his predecessor would take some beating.

Edited by Norbert the Powerful

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Gromdor

So he was a bad president because there are more idiots with an ® in leadership positions than idiots with a (D)? Seems legit.

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