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Varelse

Latest Pic from Mars. Where's Waldo?

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Astra.

I think I make a good point once in a while. In between I ramble.

You do at that.

I don't think you ramble - you simply call it as you see it - you are a straight shooter - who gets to the point.

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Aftermath

I think I make a good point once in a while. In between I ramble.

Many people try to claim that the government hides aliens from us because it would cause panic. I don't think that is credible. If we were to think about this on a Hollywood level we would be thinking about the scenes in Independence Day where people were partying in anticipation of the arrival of the aliens. I think people are so used to the idea of aliens in movies that they are habituated to the idea.

If I were to give a nonhuman equivalent we might think of animals that live in cities along with humans. These are rats and pigeons and squirrels in many places. In the wild we see whales and gorillas. These animals have in part become used to or habituated to humans.

I think humans have become habituated to the idea of aliens. Being habituated means we tolerate, but do not necessarily trust the idea of aliens just as animals in cities or parks remain wary of humans.

What is credible? Credible means: “easy to believe”, “able to be believed, convincing”. The belief that "governments hides aliens from us because it would cause panic" is very credible, i.e., it is easy to believe. I think it’s conceivable that alien disclosure would cause a lot of panic in the population. The foundation of beliefs would be shattered… especially if the aliens are atheist. In particular if you look at this through the eyes of governments, they much rather be safe than sorry. So, for governments to hide evidence, or an alien or two, from the public is nothing but believable and probable. But I think this is a mute point, as they are not hiding anything, there is nothing to hide.

The problem with your rat, squirrel, pigeon example is that those animals have definitive evidence humans exist in their world. From a young age, they are exposed, conditioned, habituated to humans. You are equating definitive human evidence to a thought or idea of alien life. It’s not equal. Have you ever heard someone say, “good in theory but not in practice”? When faced with an idea of this or a idea of that, the human response is quite different than if faced with that same thing but tangible. For instance, the thought of dropping an atom bomb on a populated area is scary but still do-able; but when it actually happens the human response was quite different and most regretted even developing the technology.

Moreover, using your animal analogy, animals PANIC when they come face-to-face with humans for the first, second, third time (fight or flight). It is only after they are conditioned to the presence of humans, over time, that they tolerate us.

With anything we humans come face-to-face with, we usually adapt to it or destroy it. If there is disclosure I believe, yes eventually, humans would over time tolerate the idea and come to terms with its implications… however not immediately as some would definitely panic. Ergo, governments will hide whatever they need to to keep the peace.

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stereologist

I would say that many people believe UFOs are piloted by aliens. That's a fact. About half the population believes aliens are here. Doesn't that make it a tangible belief?

Animals do not always panic when they first encounter humans. Not sure where you got that from. In fact, the lack of a "panic response" has led to the extinction of some species.

There will be a range of responses to the presence of aliens. Do not assign the most extreme case to the entire population. Where you see panic I do not. It is fairly common to make claims about panic and other BS when it comes to the reasons governments act as they do. The same sort of BS has been used in the fairy tale of 2012 and other events. Pick up any fringie wacko text and the prevent panic claim is likely to be in there.

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psyche101

The point is well taken about the guide at JPL. I visited the clean room where landers and satellites were constructed. The views are from the second or third floor, down and through thick glass. A lot of the tools and equipment would not be out of place in an appliance or car repair shop. Everything is super clean but not all white like a hospital. I have a university degree and this woman spoke with the authority of a professor with long experience and intimate knowledge of the subject. My guess is that she had some connection with Cal Tech. Her companion interrupted a couple of times almost like a 'minder' with 'clarifications' concerning NASA's Mars protocols. She spoke for about 20 minutes. She and her minder walked away and I could see that they were having an animated conversation not altogether friendly. .

So your suspicions are born from paranoid conclusions based on conversations you could not hear but assumed based on hand gestures?

Can't wait to find out who "this woman" is. I have a couple of suspicions, but am waiting with baited breath.

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Merc14

So your suspicions are born from paranoid conclusions based on conversations you could not hear but assumed based on hand gestures?

Can't wait to find out who "this woman" is. I have a couple of suspicions, but am waiting with baited breath.

I wonder if he and his crew were this type of FTBer and harassed that poor lady with their delusions

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psyche101

What is credible? Credible means: “easy to believe”, “able to be believed, convincing”.

Credibility is still something to be achieved, one can lose all credibility with a single sentence.

The belief that "governments hides aliens from us because it would cause panic" is very credible, i.e., it is easy to believe. I think it’s conceivable that alien disclosure would cause a lot of panic in the population.

No it is not credible at all, it is an old idea based of the extremely exaggerated claims associated with Orson Welles reading of "War of the World's." Even then during an actual situation perceived or not, the response was lack lustre greatly exaggerated by media sources.

Seriously, do you know any person at all like that? I don't.

The foundation of beliefs would be shattered… especially if the aliens are atheist. In particular if you look at this through the eyes of governments, they much rather be safe than sorry. So, for governments to hide evidence, or an alien or two, from the public is nothing but believable and probable. But I think this is a mute point, as they are not hiding anything, there is nothing to hide.

The foundations of belief are shattered, scientists who have faith have exactly that - faith, they KNOW there is nothing tangible, and I suspect deep down resile they are only conforming to conditioning.

Aliens are indeed likely to be atheist, to get to the level of technology to cross interstellar space requires quite some knowledge, which as we are finally beginning to admit discounts the role of God. Furthering that development indicates to me at least that Abrahamic Gods will take their rightful places in the halls of legend with the Greek and Roman Gods, once held in the same reverence. I feel evidence indicates that Atheism is an inevitable development of evolution.

The problem with your rat, squirrel, pigeon example is that those animals have definitive evidence humans exist in their world. From a young age, they are exposed, conditioned, habituated to humans. You are equating definitive human evidence to a thought or idea of alien life. It’s not equal. Have you ever heard someone say, “good in theory but not in practice”? When faced with an idea of this or a idea of that, the human response is quite different than if faced with that same thing but tangible. For instance, the thought of dropping an atom bomb on a populated area is scary but still do-able; but when it actually happens the human response was quite different and most regretted even developing the technology.

Moreover, using your animal analogy, animals PANIC when they come face-to-face with humans for the first, second, third time (fight or flight). It is only after they are conditioned to the presence of humans, over time, that they tolerate us.

You are just wrong, animals that have experience with humans as predators avoid them, when man discovered new species in PNG, they just walked right up to us. They had never seen man, and had no inherent fears.

LINK - Lost world' may be Earth's last

The lost world largely untouched by humans that was recently unearthed on West Papua may be the last such find on Earth, an expedition scientist says.

His comments follow the discovery of a world teeming with new species, giant flowers and rare wildlife showing no fear of humans.

article-1211554-064F0784000005DC-58_634x422.jpg

No fear: The rat is not afraid of humans, which could make it vulnerable

With anything we humans come face-to-face with, we usually adapt to it or destroy it. If there is disclosure I believe, yes eventually, humans would over time tolerate the idea and come to terms with its implications… however not immediately as some would definitely panic. Ergo, governments will hide whatever they need to to keep the peace.

Humans have an inherent fear from being a prey species ourselves, we fear having our personal space invaded for this reason - it is not the same thing.

What about the man humans that want alien contact? From the serious scientists to the whackjobs? You are basing this on religious beliefs, which should not continue to stand in the way of science as it has for the last couple thousand years at least. Islam and Christianity might make up a large number, and it is at about 2.6 billion, but I suspect about 1 billion of those people are NOT 100% lost in their faith. Some still retain some common sense and allow discoveries to speak. And religions from other places like Asia are much more liberal and open to interpretation, some like Buddhists expect other life to exist. In a world of 6 billion, you are speaking of a minority and even then largely in one country, funnily enough the same one with al the CT's about this nonsense.

Disclosure is here, and has been for quite some time, the whackjobs holding a candle for con men like Stephen Greer have circulated a rumour to the contrary speaking of deception and cover ups, none of which make an ounce of sense as they largely contradict themselves. For all the information that UFOlogy claims to feed to the public, it is also refutes itself.

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psyche101

I wonder if he and his crew were this type of FTBer and harassed that poor lady with their delusions

Gosh, I sure hope not. IF anyone does go that far, I hope Buzz in nearby........

I love that clip, if even though already one of the biggest heros ones could have, he just get better, I never get sick of watching that clip :D

Still packs a punch too :D Bart deserved every single bit of that. I will enjoy laughing at that fool Sibrel for the remainder of my life LOL :D

Idiots like that just show how little they have to offer next to a mountain of a man like Buzz, heck, Bart is not even fit to be in the shadow of Buzz.

Woo in it's finest hour.

$_1.JPG

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CIA_Spy

A rock with legs, that's all. Tendons, sorry. Tendrils. A rock with tendrils.

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Merc14

Gosh, I sure hope not. IF anyone does go that far, I hope Buzz in nearby........

I love that clip, if even though already one of the biggest heros ones could have, he just get better, I never get sick of watching that clip :D

Still packs a punch too :D Bart deserved every single bit of that. I will enjoy laughing at that fool Sibrel for the remainder of my life LOL :D

Idiots like that just show how little they have to offer next to a mountain of a man like Buzz, heck, Bart is not even fit to be in the shadow of Buzz.

Woo in it's finest hour.

$_1.JPG

Absolutely. A combat experienced fighter pilot with an engineering degree from MIT and then the greatest mission of all. Watching that pig harass him in front of his daughter and then getting knocked on his big ass is a true feel good moment. When zeek says things like "Those of us standing in the hot SoCal sun were stunned despite the 'clarifying' remarks later offered." you wonder if he has a crowd scene made up in his own mind or if he was there with a bunch of his cronies. I tend towards the former but he won't answer and probably never will since he has most likely scampered off, as predicted, to more accepting grounds.

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psyche101

Absolutely. A combat experienced fighter pilot with an engineering degree from MIT and then the greatest mission of all. Watching that pig harass him in front of his daughter and then getting knocked on his big ass is a true feel good moment. When zeek says things like "Those of us standing in the hot SoCal sun were stunned despite the 'clarifying' remarks later offered." you wonder if he has a crowd scene made up in his own mind or if he was there with a bunch of his cronies. I tend towards the former but he won't answer and probably never will since he has most likely scampered off, as predicted, to more accepting grounds.

Indeed, in front of his daughter just shows how little these people are morally, UFOlogy does not seem to attract integrity does it? You would think the FTB's who try to pretend to be reasonable would pick up on this, but they won't. They will still support Lazar, Greer and Friedman.

In fact Greer is a great example, we all KNOW for a fact that he is a rip of, trying to sell moths of as alien, yet people STILL give him credence saying things like "Ohh, but that Disclosure Project is interesting....." Human nature certainly can astound, but then again, UFOlogy seems to attract such illogical people in droves.

Good point mate, it does sound like a group effort, I'd love to know this woman name, I have a feeling that this fellow might possibly be on YT? I would really love to hear both sides of this claim.

Edited by psyche101

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Aftermath

Credibility is still something to be achieved, one can lose all credibility with a single sentence.

I agree, but has nothing to do with what I wrote.

No it is not credible at all, it is an old idea based of the extremely exaggerated claims associated with Orson Welles reading of "War of the World's." Even then during an actual situation perceived or not, the response was lack lustre greatly exaggerated by media sources.

Seriously, do you know any person at all like that? I don't.

It is credible, believable, and plausible that people will panic, ergo governments would cover it up... and yes I do know a handful of people who's very foundation of life would shatter to pieces if aliens landed on earth this morning.

Aliens are indeed likely to be atheist, to get to the level of technology to cross interstellar space requires quite some knowledge, which as we are finally beginning to admit discounts the role of God. Furthering that development indicates to me at least that Abrahamic Gods will take their rightful places in the halls of legend with the Greek and Roman Gods, once held in the same reverence. I feel evidence indicates that Atheism is an inevitable development of evolution.

I wouldn't go as far as you did there, i.e., "Atheism is an inevitable development of evolution"; however I do agree that aliens will be atheist.

You are just wrong,

I am not.

What about the man humans that want alien contact? From the serious scientists to the whackjobs? You are basing this on religious beliefs,

No, no I am not basing this on religious beliefs. I have no idea what you are talking about... I am basing this on psychology.

Islam and Christianity might make up a large number, and it is at about 2.6 billion, but I suspect about 1 billion of those people are NOT 100% lost in their faith. Some still retain some common sense and allow discoveries to speak. And religions from other places like Asia are much more liberal and open to interpretation, some like Buddhists expect other life to exist. In a world of 6 billion, you are speaking of a minority and even then largely in one country, funnily enough the same one with al the CT's about this nonsense.

I think you are off topic here.

Disclosure is here, and has been for quite some time, the whackjobs holding a candle for con men like Stephen Greer have circulated a rumour to the contrary speaking of deception and cover ups, none of which make an ounce of sense as they largely contradict themselves. For all the information that UFOlogy claims to feed to the public, it is also refutes itself.

Disclosure is not here - there's nothing to disclose... what you are writing doesn't make an ounce of sense to me.

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Aftermath

I would say that many people believe UFOs are piloted by aliens. That's a fact. About half the population believes aliens are here. Doesn't that make it a tangible belief?

Yes, and I believe that supports what I wrote.

Animals do not always panic when they first encounter humans. Not sure where you got that from. In fact, the lack of a "panic response" has led to the extinction of some species.

Ok, but a lot of animals do.

There will be a range of responses to the presence of aliens. Do not assign the most extreme case to the entire population. Where you see panic I do not. It is fairly common to make claims about panic and other BS when it comes to the reasons governments act as they do. The same sort of BS has been used in the fairy tale of 2012 and other events. Pick up any fringie wacko text and the prevent panic claim is likely to be in there.

Quite correct, there will be a wide range of responses, but the governments are only concerned with the extreme cases and why I can find it credible that they would cover something up. Where you see no panic, I do. You think it's BS, I have a different experience and therefore come to a different conclusion.

The End.

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Space Commander Travis

Actually I tend to agree with our friend Psyche, who's always so willing to tolerate the beliefs of others that may not coincide with his own, on the question of whether religiously oriented folks would freak out if there was proof of the existence of Extraterrestrials. It is good of him to concede, however grudgingly, that they're not all necessarily fundamentalist nutcases. In fact, even the Vatican, has it not, has admitted that it's quite likely that there may be intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe.

Edited by Norbert the Incredible
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Astra.

With the possibilities of finding life elsewhere - whether it be microbs - or some other kind of intelligent multicellular form.

It does make one wonder what the philosophical and the theological problems - as such making a discovery would bring.

Lets face it - it would be the most prodigious discoveries that were ever made for mankind.

It would certainly revolutionize our way of thinking.

I personally believe that many on this planet would embrace such a disclosure.

But there would be many that would not - mainly out of fear and the unknown.

History itself has shown - how contact with different cultures - has not always run smoothly :unsure2:

I'm sure that the "people in the know" would be totally aware of making such a revelation -

and the possible implications that it could bring.

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psyche101

I agree, but has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Of course it does, you stated that to be credible is "to be convincing" I am pointing out that is a VERY temporary situation based on how the situation progresses. It is pointless to be credible at face value, real credibility takes reasonable amounts of good information. Some people find absolute rip off merchants credible, how many people donate to Stephen Greer? How many are sure that Nigerian Prince is going to deposit a million dollars for your measly twenty grand you scrimped up and hocked everything to help a struggling Nigerian Prince with? Credibility is a constant state, it is not something one should become complacent with.

It is credible, believable, and plausible that people will panic, ergo governments would cover it up...

Nope, not for a second, that is actually crazy talk. Particularly the cover up stuff.

People actually thought that was happening, we have been there, a small amount of people reacted during the height of war in an infant technological stage. To consider that reaction would be elevated with today's day and age is a baseless claim.

and yes I do know a handful of people who's very foundation of life would shatter to pieces if aliens landed on earth this morning.

I find that slightly amusing, are the intensely devout people? Like Fundamentalist Religious people? Very old? Drug users?

Are you suggesting this mindset represents the majority of the population?

I wouldn't go as far as you did there, i.e., "Atheism is an inevitable development of evolution"; however I do agree that aliens will be atheist.

Well I do not see how it is not to be frank. The Greek Gods were once heralded as the answer too remember.

The term "Atheism" will just not exist one day, the term will become redundant. we do not have AFairists or ALeprechaunists anymore, one day the Gods will also take their place in the halls of myth.

I am not.

Then you wont mind explaining the behaviour of the PNG animals in that link?

I am more than interested to see how you explain that to be quite honest.

No, no I am not basing this on religious beliefs. I have no idea what you are talking about... I am basing this on psychology.

Perhaps you could further explain your previous comment then?

The foundation of beliefs would be shattered… especially if the aliens are atheist.

Foundations of belief sounds very much like a religious theme to me.

I think you are off topic here.

Not at all, what I am pointing out is that religion is a minority with regards to the population, and that a smaller amount of religious people are fundamentalist. So the fundamentalist people you mention in the quote who you assume would fear such a revelation, that I quoted above, are a tiny minority. They have little overall say, effect or are reason for a Government to cover anything up. Not that they care what the Government says, they subscribe to a higher authority.

Disclosure is not here - there's nothing to disclose... what you are writing doesn't make an ounce of sense to me.

Of course it is - what exactly do you think is covered up? Lets take it one step at a time and deconstruct this fantasy claim.

There are more Governments in the world than the US you know, and most of them don't even like the US, and they are just as capable as any power on earth to detect interstellar traffic, and would not keep that a secret. The CT stuff just shoots itself in the foot.

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Merc14

With the possibilities of finding life elsewhere - whether it be microbs - or some other kind of intelligent multicellular form.

It does make one wonder what the philosophical and the theological problems - as such making a discovery would bring.

Lets face it - it would be the most prodigious discoveries that were ever made for mankind.

It would certainly revolutionize our way of thinking.

I personally believe that many on this planet would embrace such a disclosure.

But there would be many that would not - mainly out of fear and the unknown.

History itself has shown - how contact with different cultures - has not always run smoothly :unsure2:

I'm sure that the "people in the know" would be totally aware of making such a revelation -

and the possible implications that it could bring.

I think the conversation here would be great fun to not only participate in but just watch from the sidelines. I hope I live long enough to see it actually happen but I am confident it will regardless of my state of existence at the time

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psyche101

Actually I tend to agree with our friend Psyche, who's always so willing to tolerate the beliefs of others that may not coincide with his own, on the question of whether religiously oriented folks would freak out if there was proof of the existence of Extraterrestrials. It is good of him to concede, however grudgingly, that they're not all necessarily fundamentalist nutcases. In fact, even the Vatican, has it not, has admitted that it's quite likely that there may be intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe.

Nice of you to notice the lengths I go to to accommodate other people and their personal choices.

I in fact I often quote Simon Conway Morris and make no secret of his religious affiliation. People are indoctrinated from birth, it is not the average person's fault that they have been brainwashed from birth, those of us that manage to recognise that and overcome it are often seen in a dim light. That is to be expected, it is however somewhat amusing that those that consider themselves "open minded" fail to recognise that facing and questioning indoctrination is most likely the most powerful form of what they preach with that particular ideal.

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psyche101

I think the conversation here would be great fun to not only participate in but just watch from the sidelines. I hope I live long enough to see it actually happen but I am confident it will regardless of my state of existence at the time

I do not believe enough people would panic to be noticeable though. People want first contact, the few fundamentalists that would fear this threat to their faith are a tiny minority. Not even worth considering really.

I take it you would have seen the movie "Contact" ? That religious nut the keeps sabotaging the mission is the sort of lone nutjob that would be any sort of threat. Someone with a screw loose, and enhanced by a fundamentalist faith.

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Leo Krupe

I'm with Psyche--some would panic, of course. The question is how many? As a percentage of the population, I think it would be very small. Believe it or not, I think we have been "conditioned" to accept life out there, but not in the way the FTBs think. We've been inundated with sci-fi stories, movies, TV shows, etc. for so many years, not to mention false alarms like the Martian meteorite, plus, even though it seems we've gone backwards in our intelligence and knowledge (reality TV is a good example), the fact is we're more scientifically literate as a general population than at any time in our history. And we have better access to more information, at a faster rate, than ever before.

The dull side of that knife is better access to misinformation as well, but you can't have everything. The point is we're smarter than ever (maybe not in a literal IQ sense, but in the sense that we're able to communicate faster and easier).

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Merc14

I do not believe enough people would panic to be noticeable though. People want first contact, the few fundamentalists that would fear this threat to their faith are a tiny minority. Not even worth considering really.

I take it you would have seen the movie "Contact" ? That religious nut the keeps sabotaging the mission is the sort of lone nutjob that would be any sort of threat. Someone with a screw loose, and enhanced by a fundamentalist faith.

Contact got panned by the critics but I have watched it multiple times and think it is a great movie. Read the book as well.

Never, ever, underestimate the power of the religious zealot. There are a lot of them and they have the built-in power of always being right because their deity of choice has anointed them so. As in so many of these crackpot institutions, the supply of believers seems bottomless and their general ignorance and lack of an intellectual baseline rooted in reason is an opiate for your everyday sociopath seeking control over others. See ISIS, the latest and greatest incarnation of this evil institution as illustrated by their ability to draw educated and "comfortable" westerners into their sphere of influence even across international borders. Imagine their increase in recruits when ET is discovered and they are able to exploit that empty shell so many of these folks exist in.

That said, I in no way think that any reasonable first world government with withhold discovery of past or current life on another celestial body. Why would they? The crazies will do what they always do and are doing anyways and the vast majority will celebrate thereby enhancing the legacy of whatever politician announced it. Think for a minute about being the President who announced the discovery of other life in the universe and tell me you can keep that President quiet. It's laughable.

Also, information is disseminated so quickly and so widely today that a cover-up is doomed to failure as never before. See E. Snowden about keeping secrets in the digital age.

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stereologist
It is credible, believable, and plausible that people will panic, ergo governments would cover it up... and yes I do know a handful of people who's very foundation of life would shatter to pieces if aliens landed on earth this morning.

I know many people that would not fall to pieces. Both of these are examples of what we call improper sampling. Just because some people might be incapable of handling a different situation does not mean everyone is as weak. You can point to the outliers as much as you want, but that means little. What is at issue is how the general population will act.

I am basing this on psychology.

No, you are basing this on your personal beliefs with no evidence in support of those beliefs.

I wrote the following which in no way supports your contention that people would panic. It tells us that people already believe aliens are here and thus to see one only confirms beliefs. There is no panic now and people believe that aliens are here. This shows you are likely to be wrong.

I would say that many people believe UFOs are piloted by aliens. That's a fact. About half the population believes aliens are here. Doesn't that make it a tangible belief?
Ok, but a lot of animals do.

This simply shows that you guessed and you are admitting that your claims may not be up to snuff. In fact, Psyche101 has posted direct evidence that shows your position is likely to be quite wrong.

Quite correct, there will be a wide range of responses, but the governments are only concerned with the extreme cases and why I can find it credible that they would cover something up. Where you see no panic, I do. You think it's BS, I have a different experience and therefore come to a different conclusion.

This is just plain wrong. The government does not concern itself with only the extreme cases. That's ridiculous.

So far you've made it fairly clear that you base your statements on guesses with no backing evidence. Your excuse is that you have a different way of coming to your position. I know. It is called guessing.

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stereologist

A classic example of the panic is the War of the Worlds broadcast with Orson Welles. It never happened. The stories that were told did not happen.

Here is a prime example of fiction being posted as history

Perhaps as many as a million radio listeners believed that a real Martian invasion was underway. Panic broke out across the country. In New Jersey, terrified civilians jammed highways seeking to escape the alien marauders. People begged police for gas masks to save them from the toxic gas and asked electric companies to turn off the power so that the Martians wouldn’t see their lights. One woman ran into an Indianapolis church where evening services were being held and yelled, “New York has been destroyed! It’s the end of the world! Go home and prepare to die!”

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/welles-scares-nation

When people read this they might think that this is how people would act in a real appearance of aliens.

Here is something closer to what happened

Thousands of people, believing they were under attack by Martians, flooded newspaper offices and radio and police stations with calls, asking how to flee their city or how they should protect themselves from "gas raids." Scores of adults reportedly required medical treatment for shock and hysteria.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/06/0617_050617_warworlds.html

In a city of millions a relatively few people made telephone calls.

These reports are based on newspaper accounts from that time. Were the reports correct?

http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/did-the-war-of-the-worlds-radio-broadcast-really-cause-1453582944

According to Socolow, the anecdotal accounts run by newspapers of the time were deeply flawed and painted a skewed picture of how Americans (most of whom hadn't even heard the broadcast first-hand) had responded to the now infamous program.

"The reason it becomes so big is that the press goes crazy for the story. And then people start thinking they've heard it," Socolow says. "Memory and the media have an incredibly complex relationship."

The surveys done immediately after the program illustrated that not only did very few people hear the broadcast, but that virtually no one thought it was real. Socolow co-wrote a piece for Slate that appears today and lays out many of the same arguments.

When I asked Socolow about his assessment, he was quick to rattle off four names of other researchers who had come to similar conclusions about the War of the Worlds broadcast, even before his first article on the topic appeared in 2008: Edward Jay Epstein, Robert Bartholomew, Jeffrey Sconce, W. Joseph Campbell. Socolow was far from the first to realize that this so-called panic broadcast wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

It has become clear over time that the Orson Welles broadcast did not cause panics. Yet, I have encountered this event as evidence of aliens will cause panic many times.

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psyche101

A classic example of the panic is the War of the Worlds broadcast with Orson Welles. It never happened. The stories that were told did not happen.

Here is a prime example of fiction being posted as history

http://www.history.c...s-scares-nation

When people read this they might think that this is how people would act in a real appearance of aliens.

Here is something closer to what happened

http://news.national..._warworlds.html

In a city of millions a relatively few people made telephone calls.

These reports are based on newspaper accounts from that time. Were the reports correct?

http://paleofuture.g...ause-1453582944

It has become clear over time that the Orson Welles broadcast did not cause panics. Yet, I have encountered this event as evidence of aliens will cause panic many times.

And that was all of the US.

A few religious fundamentals does not compare in any way.

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psyche101

I'm with Psyche--some would panic, of course. The question is how many? As a percentage of the population, I think it would be very small. Believe it or not, I think we have been "conditioned" to accept life out there, but not in the way the FTBs think. We've been inundated with sci-fi stories, movies, TV shows, etc. for so many years, not to mention false alarms like the Martian meteorite, plus, even though it seems we've gone backwards in our intelligence and knowledge (reality TV is a good example), the fact is we're more scientifically literate as a general population than at any time in our history. And we have better access to more information, at a faster rate, than ever before.

The dull side of that knife is better access to misinformation as well, but you can't have everything. The point is we're smarter than ever (maybe not in a literal IQ sense, but in the sense that we're able to communicate faster and easier).

We completely expected Martians and Venusians to exist, considering that Hollywood gave us aliens that can be anything form a blob to a giant woman, when we do meet aliens and they are surprisingly familiar, I think that will be enough of a surprise in itself. People expect more than what they are going to get I would say.

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psyche101

Contact got panned by the critics but I have watched it multiple times and think it is a great movie. Read the book as well.

Have not read the book, I just do not have enough time to read much these days, but I rather enjoyed the movie.

And Jodie Foster is a bit of alright ;)

Never, ever, underestimate the power of the religious zealot. There are a lot of them and they have the built-in power of always being right because their deity of choice has anointed them so. As in so many of these crackpot institutions, the supply of believers seems bottomless and their general ignorance and lack of an intellectual baseline rooted in reason is an opiate for your everyday sociopath seeking control over others. See ISIS, the latest and greatest incarnation of this evil institution as illustrated by their ability to draw educated and "comfortable" westerners into their sphere of influence even across international borders. Imagine their increase in recruits when ET is discovered and they are able to exploit that empty shell so many of these folks exist in.

They are still a tiny minority that is to small to matter. Heavens Gate showed us how bad such fundamentalist movements can be and whilst it was sa horrendous situation, from over 300 million people, only 39 people were ignorant enough to listen to a scam artist with massive promises.

Wouldn't it be something is aliens just liquified all of ISIS LOL.

That said, I in no way think that any reasonable first world government with withhold discovery of past or current life on another celestial body. Why would they? The crazies will do what they always do and are doing anyways and the vast majority will celebrate thereby enhancing the legacy of whatever politician announced it. Think for a minute about being the President who announced the discovery of other life in the universe and tell me you can keep that President quiet. It's laughable.

Indeed, and as I have said before, other Government HATE the US and would not keep any secrets for them, but are more than capable of knowing if the US is receiving interstellar traffic.

But what the FTB's do not pick up on is the amateur community. Literally hundreds of thousand of people all with the same interest and several thousand telescopes pointed at the sky at any given moment, and this largest group of all is controlled by, and answers to nobody at all. The information is there to have, it just does not exist.

And thousands of active people with knowledge of the skies is again many thousands of times more credible than Greers failed disclosure project of old anecdotes based on rumours influenced by pop culture. Yet some still feel that scam is somehow credible in some vague way.

Also, information is disseminated so quickly and so widely today that a cover-up is doomed to failure as never before. See E. Snowden about keeping secrets in the digital age.

I am a bit suspect on Snowden, he is a bit young to be making some of the claims he makes and need to read more before commenting properly, but Julian Assange also illustrates what you are saying, and in fact Wikileaks went looking through the Government files on Aliens, and could ONLY find information pertaining to alien fantasy cults on earth like Raelism and Scientology.

LINK - WikiLeaks' UFO Cables: More About Raelian Cult Than Alien Life

WikiLeaks’ UFO-related material, Assange says, largely deals with the UFO cult group known as the Raelians, whose beliefs mix religion, sex, pseudo-science and alien mythology. State Department officials in Canada have expressed concern over the group’s influence there, citing a 2002 incident when the group falsely claimed to have cloned humans.

Here’s the transcript of his answer to the question:

I have said in passing there is information about UFOs in Cablegate. And that is true, but these are only small passing references. Most of the material concerns UFO cults, and their behavior in recruiting people. For instance, there is quite a large cable, which we’ll try and release in the next few days, concerning the Raelians, a UFO cult which has a strong presence in Canada and was of concern to the U.S. ambassador in Canada. At that time, the Raelians claimed to have cloned an individual, and fantastically, the press all around the world ate this up and turned it into front page stories.

If this deflates many UFO fans, it may come as more of a shock to the Raelians themselves, who awarded Assange the title of “Honorary Guide to Humanity” in December.

LOL, Assange is not a Raelian!!

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