Aliens tried to save America from nuclear war

[Rlyeh]

Is that possible?

Probably not for John Lear, but I haven't heard Edgar Mitchell rambling about big foot on mars or a soul collector on the moon. Not yet anyway.

[Leo Krupe]

[snip]

Why do people insist aliens must be advanced? We have had the concept to reach other stars since the late 50's, observations seem to mirror our technology if anything, indicating it is not alien technology to be frank, but even if it was, proponents speak of familiar items during alleged contact, it is only performance characteristics that lead to that wild assumption, that does not sound far in advance to me.

Someone clear it up for me, please, but I think it was Klass who mentioned that in all the reports of ET, they always look and act exactly as we would expect them to, and by saying that, I agree with your point, Psyche. Plus, the "craft" are always just in advance of ours. Why did we see cigar shaped, propeller driven dirigible like craft in the 1890s, with men clearly visible, but by the late '40s, they were silvery disc shaped, capable of fantastic speeds (just as we were developing jet fighters and breaking the sound barrier)?

Sure, they're advanced, all right. Maybe 10-20 years ahead of us. They always have been, and always will be. Juuuuuuuust out of our reach. Like Max Headroom takes place 15 minutes in the future. When we get to their present, they're still 15 minutes ahead of us.

[Occult1]

Someone clear it up for me, please, but I think it was Klass who mentioned that in all the reports of ET, they always look and act exactly as we would expect them to, and by saying that, I agree with your point, Psyche. Plus, the "craft" are always just in advance of ours. Why did we see cigar shaped, propeller driven dirigible like craft in the 1890s, with men clearly visible, but by the late '40s, they were silvery disc shaped, capable of fantastic speeds (just as we were developing jet fighters and breaking the sound barrier)?

I think Jacques Vallé has an interesting hypothesis about that, if you look at his work: https://en.wikipedia...onal_hypothesis

It may be that 'UFOs' and aliens encounters are actually some kind of extradimensional or otherworldly lifeform which has manifested itself to us in different shapes and forms throughout history. It might explain why there are various people who from all ages have claimed to witness angelic beings, supernatural creatures, fairies, flying shield, cigar shaped craft, saucers, Gray aliens, Reptilians and many other strange beings.. Discarding hoaxes and cases of mental illnesses, there are still some documented cases which remain puzzling even if the rational mind has hard time ascribing any reality to them. And yet...

Edited August 18, 2015 by Phenix20

[Leo Krupe]

I think Jacques Vallé has an interesting hypothesis about that, if you look at his work: https://en.wikipedia...onal_hypothesis

It may be that 'UFOs' and aliens encounters are actually some kind of extradimensional or otherworldly lifeform which has manifested itself to us in different shapes and forms throughout history. It might explain why there are various people who from all ages have claimed to witness angelic beings, supernatural creatures, fairies, flying shield, cigar shaped craft, saucers, Gray aliens, Reptilians and many other strange beings.. Discarding hoaxes and cases of mental illnesses, there are still some documented cases which remain puzzling even if the rational mind has hard time ascribing any reality to them. And yet...

I'm familiar with Vallee's work, but not intimately. The link sums it up pretty well, though. It's a belief, and isn't falsifiable, so it's no better than saying, "What if they live on Earth, but come from a different dimension?" while sitting around with your buddies, like the kids and the professor did in Animal House.

Another question while I'm at it. I was listening to this episode of Inquiring Minds, and the subject of the H-bomb came up. The discussion pointed out that the H-bomb was essentially made as a psychological weapon, and not intended to be used like the Hiroshima bomb. I even remember it being called a "doomsday device" when I was growing up in the 60s.

My question is, why did the aliens, who are so set against us having a nuclear war, allow us to test the H-bomb at all? They never seem to have disabled any of those, have they?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Leo Krupe

[badeskov]

I'm familiar with Vallee's work, but not intimately. The link sums it up pretty well, though. It's a belief, and isn't falsifiable, so it's no better than saying, "What if they live on Earth, but come from a different dimension?" while sitting around with your buddies, like the kids and the professor did in Animal House.

Another question while I'm at it. I was listening to this episode of Inquiring Minds, and the subject of the H-bomb came up. The discussion pointed out that the H-bomb was essentially made as a psychological weapon, and not intended to be used like the Hiroshima bomb. I even remember it being called a "doomsday device" when I was growing up in the 60s.

My question is, why did the aliens, who are so set against us having a nuclear war, allow us to test the H-bomb at all? They never seem to have disabled any of those, have they?

On your last sentence that I bolded, the obvious answer is because they never prevented anything here on Earth as they are not here, There has never ever been a single documented case of that happening - ever. No matter what believers try to promote, it is not so,

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited August 18, 2015 by badeskov

[Leo Krupe]

On your last sentence that I bolded, the obvious answer is because they never prevented anything here on Earth as they are not here, There has never ever been a single documented case of that happening - ever. No matter what believer try to promote, it is not so,

Cheers,

Badeskov

Of course that's the real answer. It's like saying the reason for the half finished town in Star Trek's episode "Spectre of the Gun" was half finished because they were running short on budget. Of course that's the real answer. But the in-story answer's much more fun: the entities who created that town took fragments of Kirk's memories, because he himself had only a passing knowledge of Tombstone in the 1880s.

So to those who believe we've been visited by ET: See my question about the H-bomb.

[badeskov]

Of course that's the real answer. It's like saying the reason for the half finished town in Star Trek's episode "Spectre of the Gun" was half finished because they were running short on budget. Of course that's the real answer. But the in-story answer's much more fun: the entities who created that town took fragments of Kirk's memories, because he himself had only a passing knowledge of Tombstone in the 1880s.

So to those who believe we've been visited by ET: See my question about the H-bomb.

Yeah, every single time some have come out promoting the disabling of nuclear weapons at bases and what have you, the claims have been peeled apart by people actually knowledgeable in those fields, but not only that, also by people actually present during the anomalous events. Interestingly, the people promoting this nonsense were never present.

It is utterly ridiculous that claims that some will promote with no knowledge nor having done the research to give them that knowledge. But it looked great on this one website.......

Cheers,

Badeskov

[+Hammerclaw]

They never establish a causal connection between the malfunction and the UFOs other than to claim they were responsible for it.

[JesseCuster]

You know there's more evidence than that, old church art, old pyramid carvings...

The "old church paintings" and "pyramid carvings" are artwork taken out of context and interpreted by people who don't understand the religious and cultural symbolism and simply shoehorn their UFO beliefs into them.

What pyramid carvings are evidence of extra-terrestrials visiting earth?

[Anomalocaris]

The "old church paintings" and "pyramid carvings" are artwork taken out of context and interpreted by people who don't understand the religious and cultural symbolism and simply shoehorn their UFO beliefs into them.

Yeah, like Visoki Decani's crucifixion:

The two alleged UFOs are anthropomorphic representations of the sun and the moon, and these were very common, especially in the Byzantine art:

The same goes for the "Palenque astronaut". There exists a whole symbolism associated with the World tree and life after death, ie no spacecraft at all.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Anomalocaris

[psyche101]

I'm familiar with Vallee's work, but not intimately. The link sums it up pretty well, though. It's a belief, and isn't falsifiable, so it's no better than saying, "What if they live on Earth, but come from a different dimension?" while sitting around with your buddies, like the kids and the professor did in Animal House.

Another question while I'm at it. I was listening to this episode of Inquiring Minds, and the subject of the H-bomb came up. The discussion pointed out that the H-bomb was essentially made as a psychological weapon, and not intended to be used like the Hiroshima bomb. I even remember it being called a "doomsday device" when I was growing up in the 60s.

My question is, why did the aliens, who are so set against us having a nuclear war, allow us to test the H-bomb at all? They never seem to have disabled any of those, have they?

Hi Leo

I am not 100% sure, but I thought Blue Book first proposed the link between modern and "advanced" technology when they stated:

There is no evidence that UFO's represent technological developments or principals beyond present-day scientific knowledge.

This claims a UFO was seen at a "secret H Bomb" facility, at Savannah River.

[psyche101]

I think Jacques Vallé has an interesting hypothesis about that, if you look at his work: https://en.wikipedia...onal_hypothesis

It may be that 'UFOs' and aliens encounters are actually some kind of extradimensional or otherworldly lifeform which has manifested itself to us in different shapes and forms throughout history. It might explain why there are various people who from all ages have claimed to witness angelic beings, supernatural creatures, fairies, flying shield, cigar shaped craft, saucers, Gray aliens, Reptilians and many other strange beings.. Discarding hoaxes and cases of mental illnesses, there are still some documented cases which remain puzzling even if the rational mind has hard time ascribing any reality to them. And yet...

Vallees proposals seem more a thought experiment than an actual answer to anything.

[Occult1]

My question is, why did the aliens, who are so set against us having a nuclear war, allow us to test the H-bomb at all? They never seem to have disabled any of those, have they?

One valid answer would be, in my view, that they do not seek to change the natural course of evolution and sociocultural developpment.

Piling and testing H-Bombs might be part of that developpment as a primitive specie. The real concern for these Aliens might that Humans fail to get past that primitive stage and that they end up wiping themselves up and all life on Earth, causing extinction. Although they do not seek to intervene directly, they may still try to produce some tweaks here and there, attempts to raise awareness about our own destiny: if these WWII bombs should've been that which terminates us.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Phenix20

[Nnicolette]

I think this is all a pretty basic concept. A more advanced or custodial species could be seen as the adults here. As a parent you can ask the child not to touch the hot stove and point out that it shouldn't be touched but if you just "put up a babygate" without explanation the child doesnt ever comprehend the danger involved. Even more dangerously the child becomes more dependant on the adult to prevent the danger. Im no psychologist but if you just think about whats going on i think it should be pretty obvious that any highly intelligent benevolent species will also know this. So perhaps a gentle warning is actually the best they know to stop us from destroying ourselves, and also clarify thier intent.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Nnicolette

[psyche101]

But there are no warnings??????

Alleged incidents are either disproven, or entirely hearsay with no supporting evidence - anecdotes.

I cannot see an advanced species leaving silly little riddles for others to figure out. It's akin to crop circles.

[Space Commander Travis]

I'm familiar with Vallee's work, but not intimately. The link sums it up pretty well, though. It's a belief, and isn't falsifiable, so it's no better than saying, "What if they live on Earth, but come from a different dimension?" while sitting around with your buddies, like the kids and the professor did in Animal House.

Another question while I'm at it. I was listening to this episode of Inquiring Minds, and the subject of the H-bomb came up. The discussion pointed out that the H-bomb was essentially made as a psychological weapon, and not intended to be used like the Hiroshima bomb. I even remember it being called a "doomsday device" when I was growing up in the 60s.

My question is, why did the aliens, who are so set against us having a nuclear war, allow us to test the H-bomb at all? They never seem to have disabled any of those, have they?

Well, I suppose they wanted to be sure that it was worth worrying about, and wasn't just a psychological weapon. Perhaps they didn't have as good information about that as they did about the Manhattan Project (so much so that they knew about that before it began. :-? )

[Nnicolette]

I dont think hovering over nuclear weapons and shutting them down is much of a riddle. I didnt look for sites to quote but have read up in the past and found numerous reports of this happening at various facilities around the world. Just because you never believe in anything thats in front of you doesnt mean it hasnt happened. Many of those stories were a bit more recent then whats posted here.

[stereologist]

Just because it is on the internet or it is repeated many times by purveyors of fantasy does not change the correctness, or truthfulness of a tale.

There are plenty of fantastic tales that can be found on the internet. Some people choose to believe that weapons systems have been shut down even when the evidence is clear that has not happened. There are others that choose to believe some aliens are appliance rapers. Some people choose to believe that the world is hollow. There are all sorts of odd stories. The evidence in all cases shows that no nuclear weapons systems have been shutdown by aliens, or the morals of appliances corrupted, or the Earth to be hollow.

The issue of belief really comes down to the evidence. The evidence suggests that nuclear weapons systems have not been shutdown. If there really were evidence that was in front of me or you that aliens did it then the issue would be easily resolved. That is not the case.

Before, during and after WWII the problems or glitches were ascribed to gremlins. There were plenty of anecdotes. Gremlins made it into Bugs Bunny cartoons and later the Twilight Zone show.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlin

I think that gremlins have been replaced by aliens. It's a way of saying something happened and I need to blame something.

[Anomalocaris]

Just because it is on the internet or it is repeated many times by purveyors of fantasy does not change the correctness, or truthfulness of a tale.

There are plenty of fantastic tales that can be found on the internet. Some people choose to believe that weapons systems have been shut down even when the evidence is clear that has not happened. There are others that choose to believe some aliens are appliance rapers. Some people choose to believe that the world is hollow. There are all sorts of odd stories. The evidence in all cases shows that no nuclear weapons systems have been shutdown by aliens, or the morals of appliances corrupted, or the Earth to be hollow.

The issue of belief really comes down to the evidence. The evidence suggests that nuclear weapons systems have not been shutdown. If there really were evidence that was in front of me or you that aliens did it then the issue would be easily resolved. That is not the case.

Before, during and after WWII the problems or glitches were ascribed to gremlins. There were plenty of anecdotes. Gremlins made it into Bugs Bunny cartoons and later the Twilight Zone show.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlin

I think that gremlins have been replaced by aliens. It's a way of saying something happened and I need to blame something.

Aliens can replace everything!

They can be Gods

UFO religion

Ancient astronaut hypothesis

Cryptids

Chupacabra

The Mothman Prophecies

And I would not be surprised if some alleged paranormal / psychological phenomena are being related to them:

Miracle of the Sun

Shadow person

Sleep paralysis

I wonder what kind of creature is going to replace the old myths in the future

Edited August 20, 2015 by Anomalocaris

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

You know how we really didn't get "grey aliens" until something similar turned up in Twilight Zone?

Well, what was the gist of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" (the proper one, not that tripe with Keanu Reeves)? That's right kids, mankind has invented nuclear weapons and everyone in the Galactic Federation of Light's gone "they're dangerous, better tell them to grow the smeg up". And when did the whole "aliens disabling our nukes" idea start .... ohh after that.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[Leo Krupe]

Hi Leo

I am not 100% sure, but I thought Blue Book first proposed the link between modern and "advanced" technology when they stated:

There is no evidence that UFO's represent technological developments or principals beyond present-day scientific knowledge.

This claims a UFO was seen at a "secret H Bomb" facility, at Savannah River.

Thanks, old man! You always come through in the clutch.

[Thorvir]

I dont think hovering over nuclear weapons and shutting them down is much of a riddle. I didnt look for sites to quote but have read up in the past and found numerous reports of this happening at various facilities around the world. Just because you never believe in anything thats in front of you doesnt mean it hasnt happened. Many of those stories were a bit more recent then whats posted here.

Just because someone believes something without researching it or finding proof doesn't mean the rest of us have to fall for it. They're just stories, and, unless backed up by evidence, nothing else.

[Leo Krupe]

Just because someone believes something without researching it or finding proof doesn't mean the rest of us have to fall for it. They're just stories, and, unless backed up by evidence, nothing else.

That's one thing I made sure my children understood when they were young, and I was teaching them about critical thinking--there's a difference between fictional stories and purported fact. I used the example of ghosts -- I don't believe in them, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good scary fictional ghost story. It's just that I recognize that after X thousands of years, not one shred of proof has come to light that ghosts exist (substitute aliens if you like).

[Thorvir]

That's one thing I made sure my children understood when they were young, and I was teaching them about critical thinking--there's a difference between fictional stories and purported fact. I used the example of ghosts -- I don't believe in them, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good scary fictional ghost story. It's just that I recognize that after X thousands of years, not one shred of proof has come to light that ghosts exist (substitute aliens if you like).

I apologize, I can only "like" your post but once.

[+Hammerclaw]

I enjoy science fiction--my library is full of it. So, I can tell you, unequivocally, that anecdotal evidence unsupported by facts and speculation not firmly grounded in science, is nothing more than poorly written science fiction.