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OverSword

Students protest transgender use of locker rm

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and then

the article talks quite a bit about restrooms as well, and if the locker room has private changing stalls (as many do) than it's still a similar issue.

But the idea for the rest of these girls would be that someone with different equipment was in the room with them while they are in various stages of undress. It doesn't have to be about anyone hating on others. It seems to me that if the individual is demanding everyone else change to make him/her comfortable then it is he that is being insensitive, not the other way around. I get that TGs are discriminated against and even abused violently and it's WRONG. But when an issue like this arises it is all about the rights of everyone, not just one individual who wants to be accepted as is. It's like trying to force people to love and accept you. It just doesn't work.
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Leonardo

Do the females in question feel uncomfortable wearing bikinis in front of Lila Perry? Or if Lila wears a bikini?

I'm willing to bet this is not about feeling uncomfortable with a transgender woman sharing the locker room, but about feeling uncomfortable about the concept of transgenderism. I'm willing to bet that, although they may publicly say they don't have a problem with Lila wearing a wig and dress, privately they do.

Yes, they are teenagers, immature, full of rampaging hormones and perhaps not wordly-wise enough yet to truly accept people for who they are, but unless we treat them as if they were mature, responsible and tolerant they (at least some of them) will never grow to be those things. 17-year old teens are no longer such "innocents" they need to be sheltered from at least some of the realities of the modern world. Lila is mentally and psychologically a woman - that is her identity. These people should be encouraged to learn to accept that, not kept hidden from it as if it was something "unclean".

Edited by Leonardo
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Auntyseptic

apperantly not so obvious, since you refer as sex change procedure to something that does nto change sex at all, apperantly obvious things you do not see.

Not really spent a huge amount of time thinking about it to be honest, Obviously I'm not so stupid to think that somebody can actually change sex and a man could give birth, It was you insinuating I thought that.

It was my understanding that the person in question identifies himself as a female and as such I was presuming one day he might get what I have heard referred to as a sex change. I am well aware that it is essentially just cosmetic surgery but thanks for your input, It was much appreciated.

Edited by Cat_From_Hell

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Careful_perspective

But the idea for the rest of these girls would be that someone with different equipment was in the room with them while they are in various stages of undress. It doesn't have to be about anyone hating on others. It seems to me that if the individual is demanding everyone else change to make him/her comfortable then it is he that is being insensitive, not the other way around. I get that TGs are discriminated against and even abused violently and it's WRONG. But when an issue like this arises it is all about the rights of everyone, not just one individual who wants to be accepted as is. It's like trying to force people to love and accept you. It just doesn't work.

Exactly! Of course the safety of the child shouldn't be compromised by making him change in the boys bathroom when he considers himself a girl, but a more private accommodation should be made for him/her so that no one is uncomfortable. (I.E in a staff bathroom or in an office of one of the gym teachers)

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Careful_perspective

Do the females in question feel uncomfortable wearing bikinis in front of Lila Perry? Or if Lila wears a bikini?

I'm willing to bet this is not about feeling uncomfortable with a transgender woman sharing the locker room, but about feeling uncomfortable about the concept of transgenderism. I'm willing to bet that, although they may publicly say they don't have a problem with Lila wearing a wig and dress, privately they do.

Yes, they are teenagers, immature, full of rampaging hormones and perhaps not wordly-wise enough yet to truly accept people for who they are, but unless we treat them as if they were mature, responsible and tolerant they (at least some of them) will never grow to be those things. 17-year old teens are no longer such "innocents" they need to be sheltered from at least some of the realities of the modern world. Lila is mentally and psychologically a woman - that is her identity. These people should be encouraged to learn to accept that, not kept hidden from it as if it was something "unclean".

I would like to point out that not all girls wear bikinis while swimming. In fact, most do not. There are all sorts of bathing suits besides bikinis that cover up much of your body. However, when it comes to bras and underwear, there isn't as much flexibility because they come down to function instead of style.

Edit: My point being, it's unfair to compare what clothing you wear while undressing in the locker room to what sort of apparel you wear to swim.

Edited by woodsbooger
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seaturtlehorsesnake

i don't have any problem with unisex bathrooms and changing rooms.

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aztek

Exactly! Of course the safety of the child shouldn't be compromised by making him change in the boys bathroom when he considers himself a girl,

should we go by what he considers himself, or by what he is really is???

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Careful_perspective

should we go by what he considers himself, or by what he is really is???

Honestly, I'm not qualified to comment on that. All I am doing in this thread is expressing how I would have felt about all of this when I was in Highschool.

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aztek

i don't have any problem with unisex bathrooms and changing rooms.

you will when you have to stay in line, long line, unisex bathrooms are single person bathrooms, and i'm sure your shcool district will have problem building 10 individual batrooms, for people who feel uncomfortable. it is really unrealistic solution for usually underfunded public schools

Edited by aztek

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Michelle

Do the females in question feel uncomfortable wearing bikinis in front of Lila Perry? Or if Lila wears a bikini?

I'm willing to bet this is not about feeling uncomfortable with a transgender woman sharing the locker room, but about feeling uncomfortable about the concept of transgenderism. I'm willing to bet that, although they may publicly say they don't have a problem with Lila wearing a wig and dress, privately they do.

Yes, they are teenagers, immature, full of rampaging hormones and perhaps not wordly-wise enough yet to truly accept people for who they are, but unless we treat them as if they were mature, responsible and tolerant they (at least some of them) will never grow to be those things. 17-year old teens are no longer such "innocents" they need to be sheltered from at least some of the realities of the modern world. Lila is mentally and psychologically a woman - that is her identity. These people should be encouraged to learn to accept that, not kept hidden from it as if it was something "unclean".

I don't know why you would think that? A lot of teens are uncomfortable changing in open locker rooms. I would have hated it, but my school had changing stalls. Ad an element like a male who feels like a woman inside would have been a game changer depending on how well I knew him.

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Careful_perspective

I don't know why you would think that? A lot of teens are uncomfortable changing in open locker rooms. I would have hated it, but my school had changing stalls. Ad an element like a male who feels like a woman inside would have been a game changer depending on how well I knew him.

Exactly. My school didn't have changing stalls and we weren't allowed to change in the bathroom. There were very few of us who felt comfortable changing in the open. We had all sorts of elaborate tricks to taking off your shirt and putting on another without anyone seeing your stomach. Or putting on really stretchy shorts then unbottoning and pulling off your jeans once they were on. And looking back, none of us should have worried, we were normal teens, at healthy weights. Yet, we were all so damn insecure and terrified of being judged.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

One of the schools I worked at had a transgendered female child, they used the uni-sex toilet.

It's terribly hard for young children to understand it though (they were seven at the time). The boys go into one loo, the girls into another and (lets call them Jamie) Jamie goes into the third, why they ask? Because although Jamie was born a boy, she's really a girl. "You mean like how a caterpillar is really a butterfly?" "yes" "okay". They had zero problems with it. It was harder for the teacher to get out of "boys line, girls line" thinking then it was for the kids to accept that Jamie was a girl, even though they were a boy.

Edited by Sir Wearer of Hats
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Gonzoid

you will when you have to stay in line, long line, unisex bathrooms are single person bathrooms, and i'm sure your shcool district will have problem building 10 individual batrooms, for people who feel uncomfortable. it is really unrealistic solution for usually underfunded public schools

I've seen way more unisex bathrooms that had multiple private toilets/ urinals than individual ones IMO. There's no reason there can't be more uni bathrooms with multiple stalls and urinals. For schools, they'd just have to have someone monitoring the bathrooms at all times, but in reality, they should be doing that anyway.

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OverSword

i think you could have come up with a title that did not use an actual slur. if you are more interested in making the title fit than if it hurts other people, i'm not buying that you're sorry.

Then why would I have apologized? Again if I offended anyone I apologize.
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Michelle

Exactly. My school didn't have changing stalls and we weren't allowed to change in the bathroom. There were very few of us who felt comfortable changing in the open. We had all sorts of elaborate tricks to taking off your shirt and putting on another without anyone seeing your stomach. Or putting on really stretchy shorts then unbottoning and pulling off your jeans once they were on. And looking back, none of us should have worried, we were normal teens, at healthy weights. Yet, we were all so damn insecure and terrified of being judged.

I know! Don't you look back at how silly it was? :w00t:

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Sir Wearer of Hats

For schools, they'd just have to have someone monitoring the bathrooms at all times, but in reality, they should be doing that anyway.

How do we do that? Teachers aren't allowed into the children's toilets - ESPECIALLY male teachers. I once got a report of a kid lterally stuck in the toilet, I had to go in with the Principal and another teacher the three of us not being allowed out of the line of sight of another adult. We barely had room to turn around to get the kid out of the cubicle (the door was jammed).

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Careful_perspective

I know! Don't you look back at how silly it was? :w00t:

Honestly it makes me sad. I just wish I could go back and shake myself. I had a really good Highschool experience in general, but it would have been better if I would have just let go.

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Gonzoid

I've seen way more unisex bathrooms that had multiple private toilets/ urinals than individual ones IMO. There's no reason there can't be more uni bathrooms with multiple stalls and urinals. For schools, they'd just have to have someone monitoring the bathrooms at all times, but in reality, they should be doing that anyway.

No blame or guilt or anything at you, but couldn't you have just used "trans?"

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Careful_perspective

How do we do that? Teachers aren't allowed into the children's toilets - ESPECIALLY male teachers. I once got a report of a kid lterally stuck in the toilet, I had to go in with the Principal and another teacher the three of us not being allowed out of the line of sight of another adult. We barely had room to turn around to get the kid out of the cubicle (the door was jammed).

For some reason I imagined a kid like falling into the toilet and not being able to get itself out. Which is really funny. (Even though that wasn't the case)

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Sir Wearer of Hats

For some reason I imagined a kid like falling into the toilet and not being able to get itself out. Which is really funny. (Even though that wasn't the case)

Which is what I imagined when it happened too.

Luckily the principal and the other teacher were all nearby, so we could respond quickly.

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seaturtlehorsesnake

Then why would I have apologized? Again if I offended anyone I apologize.

just use the term "trans". it's not quite grammaticaly correct, but it's not a slur.

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aztek

lol, i used word tranny thousands of times at my old job, but it refered to transmission, not to a person.

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Gonzoid

How do we do that? Teachers aren't allowed into the children's toilets - ESPECIALLY male teachers. I once got a report of a kid lterally stuck in the toilet, I had to go in with the Principal and another teacher the three of us not being allowed out of the line of sight of another adult. We barely had room to turn around to get the kid out of the cubicle (the door was jammed).

This is the first I've ever heard of teachers not being able to use student bathrooms. I went to three high schools in two different countries (US and Canada) and this has never been an issue. How is that even logical? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, if you're a teacher your should maybe fight to get that rule lifted because, well, you already know. That's extremely inconvenient if any issue were to arise. By all means, keep male teachers out of female bathrooms and visa versa, but there are ways to work around that, like, say, a female and male teachers or staff members patrolling the halls, checking the bathrooms that correspond with their gender every few minutes to make sure there are no shenanigans going on. Honestly, trans students aside, I knew gay kids who got beat up in the bathrooms all the time, that's not okay and there are precautions that can and should be taken.

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ShadowSot

I do wonder if they have issues with gay individuals using the same locker rooms?

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OverSword

should we go by what he considers himself, or by what he is really is???

Regardless, if he is out as someone that identifies as female there is a chance he may receive various levels of physical and mental abuse. Testosterone driven teens are not the most stable individuals especially in a group setting. I personally witnessed a gay boy I went to school with being spit on flicked with wet towels and shoved around in the boys locker room. Speaking up for him helped little.
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