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OverSword

Students protest transgender use of locker rm

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Liquid Gardens

I don't know what the answer is for gender dysphoria. I suspect that our society puts too much emphasis on odd and curious sex and not enough emphasis on marriage between a man and woman as a fortress of well-being for a family.

Maybe instead we should put emphasis on being able to address more than one issue simultaneously, since emphasizing one doesn't need to come at the expense of the other. I believe some studies have shown that the best 'fortress' for the well-being of a family is those headed by lesbians, so perhaps we should also revise our emphasis accordingly.

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robinrenee

Why say it as a statement in a forum that is not about religion or the skeptic look of it? I do not think you can make a statement that something that cannot be proven to all, and not prove it so everyone can believe you. I never saw any evidence in the secular sense, of this plan. So, I do not believe it.

That's fine. I accept your opinion. Why is MY opinion so repugnant to you? I'm not a "secular" person. My spiritual beliefs define who I am. I turn to the Law of God for guidance. I'm not perfect. I fail often. And that's OK too. Life is a learning experience.

Are you talking about a religious document?

The Katab-i-Aqdas is a religious document. I gave you a link to the index in the post that bothers you.

What about in the secular sense, that is being discussed in this thread in a non-religious part of this forum?

In a "secular" sense, the appalling suicide rates for pre and post surgery transgender indicates to me that there is a psychopathological problem. Nobody in the secular world seems to know how to fix it. Do you know how to bring their suicide rates down?

There are, to me and my observations, some understanding that this something instinctual and natural that is felt by those born with something, but are not comfortable with. Why did they become instinctual born to hate their bodies?

OK... that is your observation. My conclusion is that there is a psychopathological disorder at work. The secular world has not remedied this, have they?

I do not think it's free will, because having the free will to hate who you are doesn't make sense to me. :no:

No, it isn't free will. It is learned from Western societies that are steeped in narcissistic secularism.

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robinrenee

Maybe instead we should put emphasis on being able to address more than one issue simultaneously, since emphasizing one doesn't need to come at the expense of the other. I believe some studies have shown that the best 'fortress' for the well-being of a family is those headed by lesbians, so perhaps we should also revise our emphasis accordingly.

I'd say that depends on the focus of the study and who is conducting it. There are plenty of studies that disagree.

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Liquid Gardens

I'd say that depends on the focus of the study and who is conducting it. There are plenty of studies that disagree.

As there almost always are in most social studies. There is of course a rather large confounding factor of comparing the 'well-being of a family' in hetero relationships vs gay/lesbian ones in that heteros have not been the target of discrimination for centuries/millenia. Perhaps the elimination of that discrimination is where our emphasis should be better placed in the short term so that we can actually determine how much of a 'fortress' hetero relationships actually provide in comparison; I don't think anyone would be surprised that families composed of members who are disproportionately the target of discrimination may not do as well as those who are not.

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Br Cornelius
In a "secular" sense, the appalling suicide rates for pre and post surgery transgender indicates to me that there is a psychopathological problem. Nobody in the secular world seems to know how to fix it. Do you know how to bring their suicide rates down?

The actual evidence is somewhat different. Pre-op a transgender person is 10x as likely to commit suicide as a heteosexual person.

Post-op that falls to 2x as likely (at just 4%).

the study which is so misquoted as evidence that the operation is ineffective at reducing suicide actually identifies the cure as been continued psychological care for post operative Transgenders.

So the secular society has analysed the problem and has a very plausible proposal for reducing post-op suicides to background levels of the general population.

I think that this puts your belief that secular medicine is mute in the face of the trauma of transexualism into its proper context.

Let me make a comparison to show the vacuousness of your position. The sucide rate for Black American youths is significantly higher than for white American Youths. Are you going to try to claim that been a black American Youth represents a psychopathology - or would you care to consider the social factors leading to that uncomfortable fact:

The research, published Tuesday in the journal JAMA Pediatrics, shows that from 1993 to 2012, there were a total of 657 kids in the age group who killed themselves in the U.S.; 84% were boys and 16% were girls. Overall, the suicide rate was stable over the nearly 20-year period, yet the rate among black children significantly rose while the rate among white children dropped. Why black children were more likely to die by their own hand could not be determined in this study. The researchers say that the apparent racial disparity needs further investigation.

http://time.com/3886665/suicide-rate-is-up-among-young-black-children/

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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robinrenee

The actual evidence is somewhat different. Pre-op a transgender person is 10x as likely to commit suicide as a heteosexual person.

Post-op that falls to 2x as likely (at just 4%).

the study which is so misquoted as evidence that the operation is ineffective at reducing suicide actually identifies the cure as been continued psychological care for post operative Transgenders.

So the secular society has analysed the problem and has a very plausible proposal for reducing post-op suicides to background levels of the general population.

I think that this puts your belief that secular medicine is mute in the face of the trauma of transexualism into its proper context.

Let me make a comparison to show the vacuousness of your position. The sucide rate for Black American youths is significantly higher than for white American Youths. Are you going to try to claim that been a black American Youth represents a psychopathology - or would you care to consider the social factors leading to that uncomfortable fact:

http://time.com/3886...black-children/

Br Cornelius

How's your secularism working for you in general? Under secularism's influence movies and television propaganda machines have spread dark tentacles of despair and destruction through out a confused Western society. For decades secularism has proclaimed that right is wrong, and wrong is right.

How's that working out for you? You pointed out how it's working for transgenders and black youth.

Like Rome, your secular society is destroying itself from within. How sweetly does its poison taste?

There is an authentic society growing ... nay thriving ... along side your secular world. Keep that in mind.

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Br Cornelius

How's your secularism working for you in general? Under secularism's influence movies and television propaganda machines have spread dark tentacles of despair and destruction through out a confused Western society. For decades secularism has proclaimed that right is wrong, and wrong is right.

How's that working out for you? You pointed out how it's working for transgenders and black youth.

Like Rome, your secular society is destroying itself from within. How sweetly does its poison taste?

There is an authentic society growing ... nay thriving ... along side your secular world. Keep that in mind.

Not really interested in your anti-secular stance and rhetoric.

What I am interested in is you stopping repeating the claim that secular medicine has nothing to offer the transgender person when by the very study, that you misquoted originally, there is clear evidence it has a tremendous amount to offer - especially in reducing suicide rates for transgenders.

Br Cornelius

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OverSword

if god knows our destiny and created a plan for us then he intended for people to be transgender.

Otherwise things are not going according to his plan (wich puts his authority in question) and means god doesnt have control of our destinys.

The kid is not transgender, he's having transgenderism forced on him by a mother that hates him because he is CIS (identifies as the gender his genitalia indicate he is). I hope that letter was a hoax otherwise we have a kid that will end up a serial killer or something.

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OverSword

I think this could be solved by changing the signs. Remove "men" and "women" and replace with "INNIE" and "OUTIE".

Or this.

am8GQZ6_700b.jpg

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Stubbly_Dooright

That's fine. I accept your opinion. Why is MY opinion so repugnant to you?

Your 'opinion' is not repugnant to me. But you made your original post that I'm responding to, as a statement.
snapback.pngrobinrenee, on 12 September 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

God gave us free will. His plan was for us ...male and female... to be happy and healthy and to be fruitful and multiply. When people go against God's Will, they make problems for themselves ... and... sometimes for others.

there is no, "I feel, or I believe' in there. If you feel, believe, think, or the like, I would be "GREAT" :tsu: My thinking is, don't make statements you can't answer or prove.
I'm not a "secular" person. My spiritual beliefs define who I am. I turn to the Law of God for guidance. I'm not perfect. I fail often. And that's OK too. Life is a learning experience.
Great! That's awesome for you. :yes: I just don't think, statements are going to be made that brings everyone into it and expected to be believed. You 'believe' your beliefs will happen to all of us. Ok cool. Stay this person, with your beliefs, I strongly believe that. I would think, and if I have gotten to know you by now, you do believe we all should stay who we are and our beliefs or lack of them. I too, believe differently, and feel what will happen to you. You may strong not believe what I believe, and that's understandable, but it goes both ways. ;)
The Katab-i-Aqdas is a religious document. I gave you a link to the index in the post that bothers you.
Thanks for the link, and I went to it. 'That bothers you'. Why would you link something that bothers me?

( I'm just a tad confused on that one. ;):unsure:

In a "secular" sense, the appalling suicide rates for pre and post surgery transgender indicates to me that there is a psychopathological problem. Nobody in the secular world seems to know how to fix it. Do you know how to bring their suicide rates down?
Well, if you are asking honestly, and in a secular sense, how about making them feel like they are like everyone else. I think treating them that it's natural, they are normal, and have problems that others have, just in different forms is probably what we all go through but in different levels. We use to treat depression like it's the problem of the individual's behavior and tell them to 'snap out of it' in which that was wrong and made it worse.

Too much going on of treating people like they are freaks! When they are human beings. I see it all of the time. And if they want to 'desperately' want to be in another body, then I think that would be better for them. I am sure they are aware of the risks. I find your findings interesting on the ratio of behaviors after operations. I feel, that in my observations, I have never come across that. So, I don't know about the results that you found. But a definite positive attitude and education in need for everyone.

OK... that is your observation. My conclusion is that there is a psychopathological disorder at work. The secular world has not remedied this, have they?

Actually, I feel that they have, by operations, and proper therapy and such. Again, yes my observation, and you have yours, although, we should find it interesting that your's and my observations differ, don't they?
No, it isn't free will. It is learned from Western societies that are steeped in narcissistic secularism.

Maybe, to a point. Deep down, there is what each human being honestly feels. About themselves, about others, about what they believe, you cannot go against that. Trying to convince oneself, because of peer pressure, will only do damage to your mental and emotional core in the end. One go on thinking about something about themselves, because of what a certain frame of mind is going on at the time, for some time. In the end, your true self will come through. ( I learned that the hard way growing up in a particular town I grew up in, and later finding out how I really am and how wrong they are. I was even fighting it before I left the town)

Not every person is born with everything. People are born without limbs, born blind, deaf, autistic, down's syndrome, with two sexes, so it would make sense a person is born with something that is not a kin to their inner core. That would make sense to me that something natural to them is there, and it's not mixing with their biology. This makes sense to me.

I said that thing about free will, because I have seen that being used all of the time in this.

The actual evidence is somewhat different. Pre-op a transgender person is 10x as likely to commit suicide as a heteosexual person.

Post-op that falls to 2x as likely (at just 4%).

the study which is so misquoted as evidence that the operation is ineffective at reducing suicide actually identifies the cure as been continued psychological care for post operative Transgenders.

So the secular society has analysed the problem and has a very plausible proposal for reducing post-op suicides to background levels of the general population.

I think that this puts your belief that secular medicine is mute in the face of the trauma of transexualism into its proper context.

Let me make a comparison to show the vacuousness of your position. The sucide rate for Black American youths is significantly higher than for white American Youths. Are you going to try to claim that been a black American Youth represents a psychopathology - or would you care to consider the social factors leading to that uncomfortable fact:

http://time.com/3886...black-children/

Br Cornelius

Good point! :tu:

Also, kudos to LG too.

How's your secularism working for you in general? Under secularism's influence movies and television propaganda machines have spread dark tentacles of despair and destruction through out a confused Western society. For decades secularism has proclaimed that right is wrong, and wrong is right.

How's that working out for you? You pointed out how it's working for transgenders and black youth.

Like Rome, your secular society is destroying itself from within. How sweetly does its poison taste?

There is an authentic society growing ... nay thriving ... along side your secular world. Keep that in mind.

I find this a very personal dive to ask that. Frankly, I would think that secular thinking is working form him. To me, secular thinking is free of bias.
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Liquid Gardens

In a "secular" sense, the appalling suicide rates for pre and post surgery transgender indicates to me that there is a psychopathological problem. Nobody in the secular world seems to know how to fix it. Do you know how to bring their suicide rates down?

OK... that is your observation. My conclusion is that there is a psychopathological disorder at work. The secular world has not remedied this, have they?

Count me among those who are confused by the interjection of 'secular' into this conversation. What has the non-secular world done to remedy any of this, anything at all? The secular and non-secular worlds don't seem to have remedied cancer either, so?

My suggestion to bring the suicide rates down is to work for acceptance of these people in our society, since the link between being bullied and suicides I think has already been established.

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Stubbly_Dooright

Count me among those who are confused by the interjection of 'secular' into this conversation. What has the non-secular world done to remedy any of this, anything at all? The secular and non-secular worlds don't seem to have remedied cancer either, so?

My suggestion to bring the suicide rates down is to work for acceptance of these people in our society, since the link between being bullied and suicides I think has already been established.

Bingo! :tu: Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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robinrenee

Count me among those who are confused by the interjection of 'secular' into this conversation. What has the non-secular world done to remedy any of this, anything at all? The secular and non-secular worlds don't seem to have remedied cancer either, so?

My suggestion to bring the suicide rates down is to work for acceptance of these people in our society, since the link between being bullied and suicides I think has already been established.

I put "secular" in quotes because someone was badgering me for "secular" proof of my beliefs... The secular world is wonderful. I have no problem with it. My problem is being prompted repeatedly for "secular" proof of my belief in the Law of God.

And by the way, the secular world has come a long way in cancer prevention... not the oncology industry, but the many medical experts who are turning to diet to prevent cancer.

And I do accept transgender people. My heart breaks for them because I don't think their medical disorder is being addressed correctly... hence the high suicide rates. Many minorities have high suicide rates right now (teen-aged Indians, urban black youth, et al.). They all need to be addressed... and why are they predominately male? But that's just my opinion.

Basically, I believe our society is very sick, and bullying is one of the products of the disease.

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robinrenee

Why would you link something that bothers me?

( I'm just a tad confused on that one. ;):unsure:

Let's see... I shouldn't link to anything that might bother someone? Excuse me?

Well, if you are asking honestly, and in a secular sense, how about making them feel like they are like everyone else.

They KNOW they are not like everybody else. They are victims. I believe they are victims of a socialist/liberal agenda.

I think treating them that it's natural, they are normal, and have problems that others have, just in different forms is probably what we all go through but in different levels.

I believe they would know that is phony. They know something is wrong... and it's not their fault. They are victims. They feel helpless and hopeless against a social machine with liberal socialists on one side who want to mutilate them surgically and Bible-thumpers on the other side who think they can simply turn to God. And by the way, I don't think that a lot of thumpers even know the Law of God.

We use to treat depression like it's the problem of the individual's behavior and tell them to 'snap out of it' in which that was wrong and made it worse.

And today we ... excuse me... I believe... and today we chemically lobotomize them. They feel helpless and hopeless and are focused on self-pity. I realize that some people have poor coping skills, but "better living through chemistry" is not the answer.

Too much going on of treating people like they are freaks! When they are human beings. I see it all of the time. And if they want to 'desperately' want to be in another body, then I think that would be better for them. I am sure they are aware of the risks. I find your findings interesting on the ratio of behaviors after operations. I feel, that in my observations, I have never come across that. So, I don't know about the results that you found. But a definite positive attitude and education in need for everyone.

I didn't present any findings or ratios. Another poster did, and I said that I believe the rates of suicide are still too high.

Not every person is born with everything. People are born without limbs, born blind, deaf, autistic, down's syndrome, with two sexes, so it would make sense a person is born with something that is not a kin to their inner core. That would make sense to me that something natural to them is there, and it's not mixing with their biology. This makes sense to me.

Yes, people are NOT born equal in the physical sense, but I believe we are born equal in the eyes of God. There's a Bible verse that goes something like: To whom much is given, much is expected... at least I think it's Bible. I'm not going to look it up. But I think it's that's true.

To me, secular thinking is free of bias.

Surely you're joking...

38ab4839d9612134b10c73867d430cbc.jpg

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Sherapy

Count me among those who are confused by the interjection of 'secular' into this conversation. What has the non-secular world done to remedy any of this, anything at all? The secular and non-secular worlds don't seem to have remedied cancer either, so?

My suggestion to bring the suicide rates down is to work for acceptance of these people in our society, since the link between being bullied and suicides I think has already been established.

LQ, bravo, I agree acceptance would be a great place to start, and I'd add we could try listening without an agenda, I say let's ask the transgender community what will help them and work at that.

Edited by Sherapy
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Br Cornelius

The problem is that Robinrenee's religious agenda offers nothing but dismissal and condemnation of those with sexual difference, and her justification is straight from the religious texts she holds dear. But the trouble is that that approach only makes things worse for the transgender person, and when they do suggest treatments they are empirically ineffective and lead to more suffering because they entice the transgender person to deny and suppress their own inner nature.

Robinrenee's approach is the sickness of this society that she rails so strongly against.

Br Cornelius

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Sherapy

The problem is that Robinrenee's religious agenda offers nothing but dismissal and condemnation of those with sexual difference, and her justification is straight from the religious texts she holds dear. But the trouble is that that approach only makes things worse for the transgender person, and when they do suggest treatments they are empirically ineffective and lead to more suffering because they entice the transgender person to deny and suppress their own inner nature.

Robinrenee's approach is the sickness of this society that she rails so strongly against.

Br Cornelius

Indeed,

You know Br. C., I thought something very similar to what you have said, in fact, I thought she probably doesn't realize it, but her views perpetuate the very bullying she is concerned about, for whatever it is worth to her.

When we truly are seeking to help it isn't about us, it's about the other and we begin by actively listening and acting from compassion.

IMO, Your post is quality feedback for anyone, thank you for posting it, it serves as a good reminder to me too, on how important it is to set aside our views at times and really listen. It is not always easy though.

Edited by Sherapy
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Leonardo

I put "secular" in quotes because someone was badgering me for "secular" proof of my beliefs... The secular world is wonderful. I have no problem with it. My problem is being prompted repeatedly for "secular" proof of my belief in the Law of God.

And by the way, the secular world has come a long way in cancer prevention... not the oncology industry, but the many medical experts who are turning to diet to prevent cancer.

And I do accept transgender people. My heart breaks for them because I don't think their medical disorder is being addressed correctly... hence the high suicide rates. Many minorities have high suicide rates right now (teen-aged Indians, urban black youth, et al.). They all need to be addressed... and why are they predominately male? But that's just my opinion.

Basically, I believe our society is very sick, and bullying is one of the products of the disease.

Without diminishing your education I might suggest that people much more knowledgeable regarding the origin of transgenderism than you or I have already concluded it is not a "medical disorder" - unless you were to suggest they suffer the unfortunate situation of being born the wrong physical sex.

As I have said in previous posts, identity is far more than just being the inwards expression of our outwards appearance. The influences that determine our identity are many and complex, and there are several that are more prominent than our morphology, or even the chromosomes we carry within us. Identity is much more a mental/emotional entity. It is how we appreciate the world we exist in in the intellectual sense, rather than a manifestation of our physical interaction with that world.

I would think that most transgender people would be far more comfortable in a body whose physical sex corresponded with their gender 'identity', and trying to convince them via psychology that they 'change gender identity' to match their existing physical body would be very detrimental to their mental and emotional well-being.

Edited by Leonardo
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robinrenee

The problem is that Robinrenee's religious agenda offers nothing but dismissal and condemnation of those with sexual difference, and her justification is straight from the religious texts she holds dear. But the trouble is that that approach only makes things worse for the transgender person, and when they do suggest treatments they are empirically ineffective and lead to more suffering because they entice the transgender person to deny and suppress their own inner nature.

Robinrenee's approach is the sickness of this society that she rails so strongly against.

Br Cornelius

Excuse me... you forgot to say, I believe... :whistle:

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robinrenee

Indeed,

You know Br. C., I thought something very similar to what you have said, in fact, I thought she probably doesn't realize it, but her views perpetuate the very bullying she is concerned about, for whatever it is worth to her.

Wow... my beliefs are on trial now... interesting...

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robinrenee

Without diminishing your education I might suggest that people much more knowledgeable regarding the origin of transgenderism than you or I have already concluded it is not a "medical disorder" - unless you were to suggest they suffer the unfortunate situation of being born the wrong physical sex.

The DSM-4 called it Gender Identity Disorder. Then the political correctness lobby "got hold of" the American Psychiatric Association, and in the DSM-5, it was changed to Gender Dysphoria. I don't know why one is more palatable than the other.

As I have said in previous posts, identity is far more than just being the inwards expression of our outwards appearance. The influences that determine our identity are many and complex, and there are several that are more prominent than our morphology, or even the chromosomes we carry within us. Identity is much more a mental/emotional entity. It is how we appreciate the world we exist in in the intellectual sense, rather than a manifestation of our physical interaction with that world.

I would think that most transgender people would be far more comfortable in a body whose physical sex corresponded with their gender 'identity', and trying to convince them via psychology that they 'change gender identity' to match their existing physical body would be very detrimental to their mental and emotional well-being.

Suicide is considered a mental health issue. http://www.who.int/g...ntal_health/en/ As Br Cornelius points out, suicide rates drop from a high of 41% pre-surgery to a low of 4% post-surgery. That still sounds like a mental health issue to me. By the way, those are Br's numbers. I have not checked them for accuracy. I trust that he knows what he's talking about in this case.

Surely genital mutilation surgery cannot be the answer in an enlightened world. But if one must, they can always go to Iran where gender reassignment is readily available. (sarcasm)

"Gay people pushed to change their gender"

http://www.bbc.com/n...gazine-29832690

Edited by robinrenee

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Stubbly_Dooright

Let's see... I shouldn't link to anything that might bother someone? Excuse me?

No, there was a miscommunication here. I was confused of why you wanted to purposely link something that would bother me. Was that your intent, or was the wording in your post not what you planned?
They KNOW they are not like everybody else. They are victims. I believe they are victims of a socialist/liberal agenda.
What? Are you encouraging this? Despite having a :no: on your victims of a socialist/liberal agenda, (seriously?!) Don't you think making them feel better about themselves be the utmost priority??
I believe they would know that is phony. They know something is wrong... and it's not their fault. They are victims. They feel helpless and hopeless against a social machine with liberal socialists on one side who want to mutilate them surgically and Bible-thumpers on the other side who think they can simply turn to God. And by the way, I don't think that a lot of thumpers even know the Law of God.
You do realize I'm talking about them, before they do go under the knife, right? If surgery is the answer, then it's the answer, but before and after, it's not phony. It's making them feel they are part of the rest of us. Let's not treat them like freaks. It's not a big thing to ask.
And today we ... excuse me... I believe... and today we chemically lobotomize them. They feel helpless and hopeless and are focused on self-pity. I realize that some people have poor coping skills, but "better living through chemistry" is not the answer.
Do you even realize how psychology works, how drugs work, and how doctors better prescribe them? It's the answer, if properly prescribed, and if there is no other way out. And it's more than poor coping skills. It's chemical already within them, for some. (People like this, in the long past, were exiled into sanitoriums) And if someone is born with something chemically not firing correctly, then there would be drugs to correct that. Would you say a diabetic should not have insulin? An asthmatic should not have their inhaler? This could be seen in the same way, you know.

And please, please. stop using the one side of 'it's the fault of this party' type thing. It's not helping your points.

I didn't present any findings or ratios. Another poster did, and I said that I believe the rates of suicide are still too high.

And I believe they are not. ( of course we could go on back and forth and not get anywhere. *shrugs*
Yes, people are NOT born equal in the physical sense, but I believe we are born equal in the eyes of God. There's a Bible verse that goes something like: To whom much is given, much is expected... at least I think it's Bible. I'm not going to look it up. But I think it's that's true.
Ok, cool. You think it's true. You believe we are born equal in the eyes of God. Ok, cool. ( but whether you want to base things off the bible for yourself, ok, that's for you. It wont help me, since I have not, still do not, go based on the bible. Not knocking anyone who does, just hoped I don't get knocked for if I don't, and that I go based on my belief system.

But, in the end, there is still the point of some people being born with something missing. It's great that you can think (whether from your belief or not, and the same goes for me) that everyone is born equal in the eyes of whatever. The thing is, they certainly don't seem to get treated by that ideology all the time, do they? So, here's the thing, whatever your told or believe about equality, and what I believe, and what others believe, why don't we practice that and actually make them feel equal no matter how they are born? Wouldn't that be great?!?! :tsu:

Surely you're joking...

38ab4839d9612134b10c73867d430cbc.jpg

And here's the thing, prove to me that it's false.
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Br Cornelius

Wow... my beliefs are on trial now... interesting...

By entering the discussion you put them on trial.

Br Cornelius

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Leonardo

Suicide is considered a mental health issue. http://www.who.int/g...ntal_health/en/ As Br Cornelius points out, suicide rates drop from a high of 41% pre-surgery to a low of 4% post-surgery. That still sounds like a mental health issue to me.

Well, those thought processes which lead a person to conclude suicide is their only "escape" from their life situation are generally considered a mental disorder, although I would argue that the act of suicide is itself not. But that aside, it is not the gender dysphoria itself which leads to those suicidal thoughts, but the behaviour of other people towards a person with gender dysphoria - i.e. the prejudice and cruelty they exhibit towards someone they consider "abnormal".

If anything, I would suggest that those people who can treat another human being as an 'object' simply because he or she is different to them are the ones suffering from a mental (or medical) disorder), not that human being being treated so.

Surely genital mutilation surgery cannot be the answer in an enlightened world.

Calling the process of normalising the sex of the person to match their gender identity a "mutilation" is prejudicial and rather disgusting. These people have difficulty in life relationships because of the issue of being restricted from expressing their gender identity due to their mismatching physical sex. Gender reassignment surgery assists them in this regard, which is one reason we see the suicide rate drop dramatically after successful surgery.

Edited by Leonardo
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Br Cornelius

Robinrenee you just drip scorn and prejudice on the issue of Transgenderism, your every utterance shows your disgust.

Br Cornelius

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