Russia's military intervention in Syria?

[Thorvir]

When you said this -> " The Gazans are lucky that they haven't p***ed off Israel more than they have so far."

Is that not a threatening manner to you?

No. It's just the facts. What does that have to do with 1) human beings and 2) christianity? Geez.

[Thorvir]

I feel like I have to say that not all Muslims are extremist or radicals, when discussing people of their faith, is all .

Fine. Do it to your heart's content. Some are horrible monsters, others are not. But that's the same with ALL facets of this world. I have my opinion on these things, you have yours, others has theirs.

[+and-then]

I have a somewhat contrary opinion; first, Assad may be bad but the alternatives may be much worse and some arrangement with Assad begins to look necessary. I think the West in their "Assad has to go" pronouncements burned some bridges that did not need to be burnt. The Russians present an opportunity to ease Assad out and maybe stop the bloodshed, although of course what the Russians want is someone friendlier to them than the present Western-supported forces would be.

THIS. In the beginning as I watched the horrors coming out of Syria I agreed that he had to go. Then it slowly became apparent that as bad as his regime was, the alternative would be far worse. And Syria has been a toehold for Russia since at least the 60's so they going to make a stand there. As to burning bridges, that seems to be our current president's only real strength. He does it marvelously.

[+and-then]

One U.S. official said Russian military intervention in Syria would be a game changer, among other things raising the possibility of run-ins with U.S. warplanes conducting air strikes against ISIS in Syria.

However, other analysts caution Russia could simply be gearing up for a humanitarian relief operation for the tens of thousands of Syrian civilians forced by the fighting to flee their homes.

http://www.cbsnews.c...sence-in-syria/

Considering how belligerent little rooty poot has been over Ukraine, it's a real risk. Very dangerous game in that setting, though I suspect his generals may explain the realities to him and that behavior will moderate. For all his bluster, he knows his conventional forces stand no chance against a committed US military. His game is all based on the lack of resolve of the current US president.

[vDominai]

There's talk of "evil" Assad having to be removed again. Christ. What's with the obsession? I get that he's a dictator, but focus on ISIS maybe? Especially now that Russia is more directly involved.

Then it slowly became apparent that as bad as his regime was, the alternative would be far worse.

Exactly this.

Edited September 5, 2015 by SenorDomino

[Occult1]

Considering how belligerent little rooty poot has been over Ukraine, it's a real risk. Very dangerous game in that setting, though I suspect his generals may explain the realities to him and that behavior will moderate. For all his bluster, he knows his conventional forces stand no chance against a committed US military. His game is all based on the lack of resolve of the current US president.

Except that Putin is acting well within international law in Syria and the US is not. That's the difference. Russia's help was requested by the U.N-recognized Syrian regime but on the other hand, the West invited itself into this conflict by launching aistrikes completely uncoordinated with government forces. This alone makes Putin's move in this country a lot more legitimate than Obama's intervention. Maybe it would be wiser for the West to focus on Iraq instead?

Edited September 5, 2015 by Phenix20

[+and-then]

Except that Putin is acting well within international law in Syria and the US is not. That's the difference. Russia's help was requested by the U.N-recognized Syrian regime but on the other hand, the West invited itself into this conflict by launching aistrikes completely uncoordinated with government forces. This alone makes Putin's move in this country a lot more legitimate than Obama's intervention. Maybe it would be wiser for the West to focus on Iraq instead?

I don't really care who prevails in their civil war/ sectarian fight. NEITHER victor will be a friend of the west. My guess is that they'll fight to a draw, blame Israel and team up to destroy the Zionists and the "colonial" powers. And those uncoordinated airstrikes are a useless thing masquerading as US power being employed in US interests. It's a pathetic move that makes us look weak and it will cost a lot of American blood and treasure eventually.

[Occult1]

I don't really care who prevails in their civil war/ sectarian fight. NEITHER victor will be a friend of the west. My guess is that they'll fight to a draw, blame Israel and team up to destroy the Zionists and the "colonial" powers.

Well, I do care out of sympathy for Syrians. I wish for them stability as it was before the West and it's Gulf allies sponsored armed rebellion in this country.

And why does it always have to be about Israel? This is a fight for Syria's future as well as Iraq's.

And those uncoordinated airstrikes are a useless thing masquerading as US power being employed in US interests. It's a pathetic move that makes us look weak and it will cost a lot of American blood and treasure eventually.

It's because they have been inefficient and the West so far refuses to acknowledge it. The 'stubborn' approach to create a ''moderate rebel army'' was also a complete failure. Dropping bombs from the air alone is not enough. Airstrikes need to be coordinated with local forces that will lead the fight on the ground. The Kurds can't do it alone in Syria. Only the Syrian regime has the capabilities, manpower and secular ideology necessery to achieve long-term success against Takfiri extremists threatening to invade Syria.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Phenix20

[+and-then]

Well, I do care out of sympathy for Syrians. I wish for them stability as it was before the West and it's Gulf allies sponsored armed rebellion in this country.

And why does it always have to be about Israel? This is a fight for Syria's future as well as Iraq's.

It's because they have been inefficient and the West so far refuses to acknowledge it. The 'stubborn' approach to create a ''moderate rebel army'' was also a complete failure. Dropping bombs from the air alone is not enough. Airstrikes need to be coordinated with local forces that will lead the fight on the ground. The Kurds can't do it alone in Syria. Only the Syrian regime has the capabilities, manpower and secular ideology necessery to achieve long-term success against Takfiri extremists threatening to invade Syria.

I didn't imply it was about Israel. I was just saying that I believe the problem isn't so much Syria or Iraq, the problem is primarily sectarian war between Sunni and Shia - the state it happens in is secondary. And Syria does not exist anymore, the jury is out on Iraq but I'd guess it will be turned into Cantons as well eventually.

[acidhead]

I didn't imply it was about Israel. I was just saying that I believe the problem isn't so much Syria or Iraq, the problem is primarily sectarian war between Sunni and Shia - the state it happens in is secondary. And Syria does not exist anymore, the jury is out on Iraq but I'd guess it will be turned into Cantons as well eventually.

Syria still exists. It still has a functioning gov out of Damascus. Check out sana news. I have their news feed on my fb. How they're managing I have no idea.

[Occult1]

Syria still exists. It still has a functioning gov out of Damascus. Check out sana news. I have their news feed on my fb. How they're managing I have no idea.

Exactly. Altough the Syrian regime now holds more or less a quarter of Syria, large cities where the majority of the population live are still under

it's control. While the Syrian Army had no other choice but to pull back and secure those areas at this point - after 4 years of conflict and no

help from Obama's international coallition - if the Russians have decided to scale up their support for Assad it could be a game-changer.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Phenix20

[+and-then]

Syria still exists. It still has a functioning gov out of Damascus. Check out sana news. I have their news feed on my fb. How they're managing I have no idea.

Perhaps I should say - the Syria we knew before the war - and I think eventually the same fate is in store for Iraq. If Russia starts flying air cover and actually engages US aircraft (highly unlikely) then it could indeed be a game changer. Putin may be a good poker player with someone like Obama but he's relying too much on that cravenness if he actually starts firing on US aircraft. His squadron might need to be resupplied He isn't going to suicide his country on a bet.

[Frank Merton]

Now for my conspiracy theory: Obama and Putin are secretly cooperating here. Obama wants to destroy ISIS first, and the Russians can enable the Syrian regime to help with this as well as also directly. Of course Obama can't say anything openly because of his past excessive anti-Syrian rhetoric. Of course this carries the risk that once ISIS is gone Assad can come back to power and murder his opponents (which he will try to do).

[acidhead]

http://www.sana.sy/en/?p=53635

September 4, 2015

Moscow, SANA – Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday Russia provides serious support to Syria, including militarily, in the framework of fighting terrorism.

“We consider various possibilities, but now what you have mentioned [participation in military operations against ISIS] is not yet on our agenda,” said Putin at the Eastern Economic Forum held in the Russian city Vladivostok.

“Saying that we are ready to do it today is premature, but we are providing Syria with rather serious support and equipment and training forces with armament,” he added, noting that Russia will continue consultations with “our Syrian friends and the countries in the region.”

He noted that the Russian support is being provided in accordance with contracts signed with Syria 5 to 7 years ago, “and we are fully implementing them.”

Putin questioned the affectivity of the airstrikes carried out by the US against ISIS as they have “yielded no tangible results so far,” adding that Russia has taken several steps to form an international anti-terrorism coalition.

“We took specific steps, and we did that in public. We really want to form an international coalition against terrorism, and to that end we consulted with our American partners,” said Putin, noting that Russia had also consulted with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Jordan and Egypt.

The Russian President pointed out that the preliminary contacts made by Russia have showed that the task of forming such an international coalition is achievable.

He added that if it is right now unfeasible to carry out joint action directly in the battlefield by all the countries concerned in combating terrorism, “they have at least to coordinate among themselves, and we are making efforts in that direction.”

Putin affirmed that combating terrorism should be in parallel to the political process in Syria, “and by the way, President Bashar al-Assad is willing to take certain steps in this regard, including holding parliamentary elections and making contacts with the peaceful opposition to get it involved in administration.”

The Russian President blamed the emerging immigration crisis from Syria on the “wrong policies” of the West, saying people are fleeing ISIS and not the Syrian government .

[acidhead]

http://www.sana.sy/en/?p=53749

September 5, 2015

Moscow, SANA – The Russian Foreign Ministry said that Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and U.S. State Secretary John Kerry discussed in a phone call the crisis in Syria and combating ISIS.

The Ministry said in a statement that the two discussed various issues related to the situation in Syria and neighboring countries, and combating ISIS and other terrorist organizations, in addition to prospects of cooperation for supporting UN efforts to launch a political process in Syria based on the Geneva communiqué.

The statement added that the two sides agreed to maintain communication regarding resolving the crisis in Syria.

*****

Now for my conspiracy theory: Obama and Putin are secretly cooperating here. Obama wants to destroy ISIS first, and the Russians can enable the Syrian regime to help with this as well as also directly. Of course Obama can't say anything openly because of his past excessive anti-Syrian rhetoric. Of course this carries the risk that once ISIS is gone Assad can come back to power and murder his opponents (which he will try to do).

[Harry_Dresden]

Perhaps I should say - the Syria we knew before the war - and I think eventually the same fate is in store for Iraq. If Russia starts flying air cover and actually engages US aircraft (highly unlikely) then it could indeed be a game changer. Putin may be a good poker player with someone like Obama but he's relying too much on that cravenness if he actually starts firing on US aircraft. His squadron might need to be resupplied He isn't going to suicide his country on a bet.

Nothing goes uncontested, especially Syrian airspace so Putin will not give up on Assad. There's also the matter of Russia's naval base in Tartus. This Syrian situation is headed for a comprise with Obama and Putin sharing the pot.

[+and-then]

Nothing goes uncontested, especially Syrian airspace so Putin will not give up on Assad. There's also the matter of Russia's naval base in Tartus. This Syrian situation is headed for a comprise with Obama and Putin sharing the pot.

You have more faith in the rationality of BOTH men than I. I hope you are correct. A Russian AAA or missile battery taking down a US aircraft will be hard to cover up and the impact here at home would not be good at all. Wars start over such things.

[Mr.United_Nations]

You have more faith in the rationality of BOTH men than I. I hope you are correct. A Russian AAA or missile battery taking down a US aircraft will be hard to cover up and the impact here at home would not be good at all. Wars start over such things.

a bit like that sinking of the American ship by Israel? eh?

[+and-then]

a bit like that sinking of the American ship by Israel? eh?

A mistake by an ally in the midst of the fog of war and a mistake by an enemy aren't the same thing. And this discussion isn't about Israel or the Liberty, troll.

[Occult1]

You have more faith in the rationality of BOTH men than I. I hope you are correct. A Russian AAA or missile battery taking down a US aircraft will be hard to cover up and the impact here at home would not be good at all. Wars start over such things.

Assad's planes were never targeted by the US and vice versa. One reason for this is that Coallition aistrikes have been concentrated in Northern Syria, around Kurdish territories. There is much that Russia could do to bolster the regime in it's fight against Takfiri extremists without actually confronting the West.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Phenix20

[+and-then]

Assad's planes were never targeted by the US and vice versa. One reason for this is that Coallition aistrikes have been concentrated in Northern Syria, around Kurdish territories. There is much that Russia could do to bolster the regime in it's fight against Takfiri extremists without actually confronting the West.

And I hope that will be the case. But have you noticed the aggressive posture elsewhere because of the Ukraine dust up? Hopefully Putin's generals are on a short leash and HE is rational about just how far Oby will bend over for him.

[Occult1]

Bulgaria Denies Air Access To Syria-Bound Russia Planes:

''NATO member Bulgaria said it had refused permission to an unspecified number of Russian aircraft to cross its airspace late last week, amid growing US fears that Moscow is boosting its military support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

"The planes were said to carry humanitarian aid but we had information, that we had every reason to trust, that the declared cargo was not the real one," foreign ministry spokeswoman Betina Zhoteva told AFP news agency on Tuesday.

Zhoteva said the decision was taken late last week but did not give details about the number of the planes.''

Source: http://www.aljazeera...8132827726.html

See also: https://www.dailysta...ia-flights.ashx

So now the West is lobbying it's NATO members to impede Russia from joining the fight against ISIL. Go figure.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Phenix20

[+and-then]

Bulgaria Denies Air Access To Syria-Bound Russia Planes:

''NATO member Bulgaria said it had refused permission to an unspecified number of Russian aircraft to cross its airspace late last week, amid growing US fears that Moscow is boosting its military support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

"The planes were said to carry humanitarian aid but we had information, that we had every reason to trust, that the declared cargo was not the real one," foreign ministry spokeswoman Betina Zhoteva told AFP news agency on Tuesday.

Zhoteva said the decision was taken late last week but did not give details about the number of the planes.''

Source: http://www.aljazeera...8132827726.html

See also: https://www.dailysta...ia-flights.ashx

So now the West is lobbying it's NATO members to impede Russia from joining the fight against ISIL. Go figure.

The power play between Putin and the west is going to get increasingly dangerous. No matter which side one supports, having US and Russian combat aircraft in basically the same airspace can lead to really bad consequences unintentionally. If the forces were truly on the same page it wouldn't be a problem but we know this isn't the case. The problems in Syria will seem like a neighborhood fist fight once a US or Russian aircraft gets downed.

[Occult1]

The power play between Putin and the west is going to get increasingly dangerous. No matter which side one supports, having US and Russian combat aircraft in basically the same airspace can lead to really bad consequences unintentionally. If the forces were truly on the same page it wouldn't be a problem but we know this isn't the case. The problems in Syria will seem like a neighborhood fist fight once a US or Russian aircraft gets downed.

It shouldn't be a matter of 'side'. The idea is to roll back Daesh's advance in this country. Russia's support for the Syrian regime in it's plight is legitimate. They have been ASKED to come there and assist them with training operations, logistic support and possibly combat troops on the ground. The Kremlin politely requested Bulgaria and Greece to pass through their airspaces and there's really no reason why they should suddenly turnabout and refuse. It's a fairly common procedure. So you've got to wonder why the West care so much about Assad's fate to the point of impeding Russia to join the fight against extremist groups.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Phenix20

[Frank Merton]

While I like the idea of Russia helping destroy ISIS, claiming their activity is "legitimate" because of invitation by the war criminal Assad is absurd.