Germany open to 500,000 refugees a year

[FLOMBIE]

I speak fluently in Russian, so? That doesn't make me Russian, and without Russian native translator, you wont' see a difference. Do EU authorities, responsible for crisis mitigation have enough Turks/Arabs to translate? I mean translate, not translate.google like...

Of course do we have native speakers as translators. Do you think the immigration staff will be trained in 15 different languages? It is much easier to hire native speakers as translators. You can also hire more if needed, like I assume they would now. They did identify people who spoke the wrong Arabic dialects.

And again... No passport... sneakers... sweatpants... Germany...

Why are you not listening to me? They will be given a passport and money. And that can be sanctioned. And eventually they will go to prison. We've had all that before.

Don't like "Detention centers"? Lets call it "Fancy centers". Do exactly the same, but with fancy title... Thats better?

A detention center is a prison. These people will get proper housing, and are free to leave it. They will have to, for going to work, doing the groceries, take their kids to the park or play some pool at the local pub. They are even allowed to travel to other countries if their request is being granted. Detention center would not be in any way the correct word to use.

[+DieChecker]

You must have spoken to the wrong people. I hardly believe it was "everyone". Not where I grew up.

I was in the South West corner mostly, where did you grow up?

Again, these people will register at their final destination, thus not being an illegal immigrant. Illegal immigration does not mean crossing the border without a visa. Some of these people do actually have proper visa.

Some of them might want to stay, but they have to go back. There are exceptions, yes, but we had these kinds of situations before, and people do go back.

Register at their destination? Why would they do that? They can simply find a Muslim enclave and start working a job. That's what they would do back home.

Is there some kind of warehouse set up where these people will go to register? Because with thousands of them each week, you'd need a large warehouse, or big office building to process all of them quickly.

[questionmark]

I was in the South West corner mostly, where did you grow up?

Register at their destination? Why would they do that? They can simply find a Muslim enclave and start working a job. That's what they would do back home.

Is there some kind of warehouse set up where these people will go to register? Because with thousands of them each week, you'd need a large warehouse, or big office building to process all of them quickly.

If you talk Germany: everybody is registered, absolutely everybody. Unless on the run.

[toast]

Of course life costs money. Now, let me ask you simple question: is local pensioner, living on 100-200euros (and paying all

bills, buying food for himself), worth less than immigrant being payed for apartment/food plus 1.5euro per day, and still

complaining about that?!!!

Where did you got that 100-200euro nonsens from? First, it is impossible in Gemany to live on just 100-200euro per month

and it is impossible to pay all bills with that amount of money. And no local pensioner has to live on just 100-200euro/month.

Every adult German citizen, so pensioners as well, has a right to get the so called base income and the amount of this income

is defined by the Social Welfare Administration and fixed by law. The base income is 391euro per month. In addition, the apartment

rent (appropriate), the additional cost for the appartment (waste disposal etc.), cost for fresh water and wastewater, heating costs,

health insurance, care insurance and a grant for the use of public transport get paid by the Social Welfare Administration as well.

So, if a local pensioner get a pension of just 200, the difference to 391euro (191euro) will be paid to him by Social Welfare Administration.

These are the facts you were not aware about of but you placed a claim thats often used by, how I call them, social squallers. Means,

a claim based on just individual opinions but not on facts. But for a meaningful discussion, facts are required and not yellow press

gibberish.

[bmk1245]

Where did you got that 100-200euro nonsens from? First, it is impossible in Gemany to live on just 100-200euro per month

and it is impossible to pay all bills with that amount of money. And no local pensioner has to live on just 100-200euro/month.

Every adult German citizen, so pensioners as well, has a right to get the so called base income and the amount of this income

is defined by the Social Welfare Administration and fixed by law. The base income is 391euro per month. In addition, the apartment

rent (appropriate), the additional cost for the appartment (waste disposal etc.), cost for fresh water and wastewater, heating costs,

health insurance, care insurance and a grant for the use of public transport get paid by the Social Welfare Administration as well.

So, if a local pensioner get a pension of just 200, the difference to 391euro (191euro) will be paid to him by Social Welfare Administration.

These are the facts you were not aware about of but you placed a claim thats often used by, how I call them, social squallers. Means,

a claim based on just individual opinions but not on facts. But for a meaningful discussion, facts are required and not yellow press

gibberish.

in regards of 100-200 euros, I've been talking about Baltic states. My mother, for example, gets just above 200 €. And yes, there are those who get 100€ or so. Thats reality. I've posted, already, bit from interview with Syrian refugee (detained in Latvia with fake passport), who has no intentions to stay in Latvia (after being granted asylum). How you keep this one (and the likes) in Latvia under quota system?

[bmk1245]

Of course do we have native speakers as translators. Do you think the immigration staff will be trained in 15 different languages? It is much easier to hire native speakers as translators. You can also hire more if needed, like I assume they would now. They did identify people who spoke the wrong Arabic dialects.

[...]

OK, fair enough, if thats true, and if all those hired do their job properly.

[...]

Why are you not listening to me? They will be given a passport and money. And that can be sanctioned. And eventually they will go to prison. We've had all that before.

[...]

You wanna put war refugee in to the prison? Blasphemy...

[...]

A detention center is a prison. These people will get proper housing, and are free to leave it. They will have to, for going to work, doing the groceries, take their kids to the park or play some pool at the local pub. They are even allowed to travel to other countries if their request is being granted. Detention center would not be in any way the correct word to use.

So, how you want to call it? "Scout camp"? Whats wrong with giving roof/food and restricting movement in controlled way, until all legal "processing" procedures are done? Edited September 10, 2015 by bmk1245

[odas]

When I was in Germany in the 1990s, everyone was complaining about the Turks.

http://www.todayszam...key_369997.html

An asylum seeker usually files paperwork, and arrives in a way known to the hosting government, these people are flooding into Hungrey and using the rail lines to get into Germany with no paperwork, and no where to go, and no one knowing they are coming... Thus.... illegally.

They also are not planning on going back, as far as I know, which makes them immigrants, not asylum seekers who will go back when it is safe. Though I could be wrong on this point, many of them may intend to go back right later.

http://www.nytimes.c...ter16.html?_r=0

That is utter nonsens. Some were complaining but not everyone. The same people complained about the italians the yugos the spanish an so on.

The turks are well intergrated in Germany. I remember the early seventies when others made fun of them the way they dressed but now no one can make fun of the beautifull and smart turkish women. They are in politics, in health care, in education...

[questionmark]

They are in politics, in health care, in education...

and yet the Occident has not fallen, if at all, what is up for questioning is the applicability of Turkish traditions VS Western lifestyle.

The extremists are generally those on on the loosing side of the social competition, both Germans and Turks.

[odas]

and yet the Occident has not fallen, if at all, what is up for questioning is the applicability of Turkish traditions VS Western lifestyle.

The extremists are generally those on on the loosing side of the social competition, both Germans and Turks.

East west traditions and lifestyle will merge as they always do. Most turkish ladies do not wear the headscarf but even those who do enjoy the western lifestyle. Acceptance is the key word here not tolerrance.

As for the extremists well they will lose as usual.

[stevewinn]

No, you are wrong. An illegal immigrant is someone entering a country by violating the country's immigration laws. Someone entering a country to seek asylum is not violating the immigration laws.

just to highlight the mistakes made when referring to the migrant crisis. - Do people not have eyes? watch the News footage on the inflatable boats arriving from Turkey Not Syria. they have money, they hae purchased their life jackets, they have purchased a place on the inflatable boat. they have also paid for the smart phones they are carrying. "taking selfies"

The reporter keeps calling them Refugees, Fleeing a War. - I didnt know Turkey was at war? These people have been living and working in Turkey for a number of years just like the Father of the child washed up dead on the beach. Just look at the clothes they are wearing, clean, branded, most are carrying smart phones. not one of them are malnutritioned. Theses people are the wealthy citizens of Syria who have fled, lived and worked in Turkey for a good number of years. But have decided they want to leave the safety of Turkey to Europe.

once they left Turkey they ceased being a Refugee and their status changed to migrant. As a migrant they havent applied for a Migrant work visa. they've then entered a European country illegally. So they are Illegal Migrants. They then navigate their way through various safe countries vilolating international borders and Laws of the countries they pass through. When they arrive in Germany they are illegal migrants. - they then apply for Asylum. - which is a request by the individual for their host country to process and determine their status.

[FLOMBIE]

I was in the South West corner mostly, where did you grow up?

The north. The south is a tad more xenophobic than the north, but towards everyone, including us northerners. But it is still not even close to everyone. And hey, haven't you notice that we Germans complain about everything all the time? And oh boy, we do exaggerate.

Register at their destination? Why would they do that? They can simply find a Muslim enclave and start working a job. That's what they would do back home.

Is there some kind of warehouse set up where these people will go to register? Because with thousands of them each week, you'd need a large warehouse, or big office building to process all of them quickly.

Why would they not do that? If they want to be granted asylum, receive their benefits and housing, get the possibility to enter the job market, they have to. Nobody really wants to live in obscurity, you know. And it's definitely not what these people seek.

And of course do we have proper immigration offices. Each individual application may take months. Until then, they will have a place to stay.

[FLOMBIE]

in regards of 100-200 euros, I've been talking about Baltic states. My mother, for example, gets just above 200 €. And yes, there are those who get 100€ or so. Thats reality. I've posted, already, bit from interview with Syrian refugee (detained in Latvia with fake passport), who has no intentions to stay in Latvia (after being granted asylum). How you keep this one (and the likes) in Latvia under quota system?

Brother, for the last time. There are laws, and if people do not follow the law, they will be punished. That goes for everybody. And you should project the intent of an individual onto an entire group.

OK, fair enough, if thats true, and if all those hired do their job properly.

No, they all do the worst job possible. Are you kidding me? Of course will they try to do their job as best as they can, like every normal person does.

You wanna put war refugee in to the prison? Blasphemy...

If they break laws, yes of course! That is why we have those laws. If they don't they won't go to prison. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

So, how you want to call it? "Scout camp"? Whats wrong with giving roof/food and restricting movement in controlled way, until all legal "processing" procedures are done?

Maybe call it for what it is: A house. Or if you want to give it a fancy name for its designed purpose: Housing for asylum seekers.

And maybe you would treat these people like normal human beings, and they wouldn't want to leave Latvia. Who likes to be treated as a second class citizen?

Edited September 10, 2015 by FLOMBIE

[FLOMBIE]

just to highlight the mistakes made when referring to the migrant crisis. - Do people not have eyes? watch the News footage on the inflatable boats arriving from Turkey Not Syria. they have money, they hae purchased their life jackets, they have purchased a place on the inflatable boat. they have also paid for the smart phones they are carrying. "taking selfies"

Oh, so you also do not know how immigration works? Again: Somebody entering the EU to apply for asylum is not immigrating illegally! That is a legal process. And it does not matter that they come through third countries. There is, however, a list of safe third countries, that asylum seekers are send back to, if they try to immigrate through them. And Turkey is not on that list.

You can also be rich and on the run, you know? Being rich doesn't equal not being prosecuted.

The reporter keeps calling them Refugees, Fleeing a War. - I didnt know Turkey was at war? These people have been living and working in Turkey for a number of years just like the Father of the child washed up dead on the beach. Just look at the clothes they are wearing, clean, branded, most are carrying smart phones. not one of them are malnutritioned. Theses people are the wealthy citizens of Syria who have fled, lived and worked in Turkey for a good number of years. But have decided they want to leave the safety of Turkey to Europe.

once they left Turkey they ceased being a Refugee and their status changed to migrant. As a migrant they havent applied for a Migrant work visa. they've then entered a European country illegally. So they are Illegal Migrants. They then navigate their way through various safe countries vilolating international borders and Laws of the countries they pass through. When they arrive in Germany they are illegal migrants. - they then apply for Asylum. - which is a request by the individual for their host country to process and determine their status.

Turkey is at war. Check the news: ISIS, PKK. What do you not want to see?

And again, you do not know how immigration works.

[Astra.]

So you should rather leave them all out, because a few of the could be coming under false pretenses? That is not very compassionate.

Oh wake up - and stop using the "compassionate crap" as some kind of an emotional ploy.

Just wait and see when they start demanding rights to gain special privileges in your country.

Wait and see how many more Mosques will be built.

So far - Australia is taking in approximately 12,000 Syrian refugees - ( a mere drop in the ocean compared to Germany and other countries).... but we are choosing to be cautious about the numbers - hence... selective who we allow through the door.

There will also be stringent back ground checks on these people - a wise move IMO.

[stevewinn]

Oh, so you also do not know how immigration works? Again: Somebody entering the EU to apply for asylum is not immigrating illegally! That is a legal process. And it does not matter that they come through third countries. There is, however, a list of safe third countries, that asylum seekers are send back to, if they try to immigrate through them. And Turkey is not on that list.

You can also be rich and on the run, you know? Being rich doesn't equal not being prosecuted.

Turkey is at war. Check the news: ISIS, PKK. What do you not want to see?

And again, you do not know how immigration works.

Turkey is not at War by any strectch of the imagination, Turkey as been fighting the PKK insurgency for the last 30'odd years. ISIS Turkey along with the Saudi's were the backers of ISIS. or what was to become ISIS.

You seem to be using the smoke and mirrors tactic when referring to the protocols of claiming Asylum by quoting the EU rules only. - because conveniently for you Turkey doesnt appear on that list being Non-EU members, What you should be quoting is the laws which supersede EU Laws, that of United Nations Laws on refugees/Asylum. - Turkey today is deemed a safe country, and is a signatory to the UN's 1951 & 1967 Convention.

As for Immigration, just to explain the definition. from the UN.

What is the difference between a refugee and an asylum seeker?

What are refugees?

A refugee is a person who:

'owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country'

The people we see arriving on the Greek Islands of Lesbos & Kos, are coming from Turkey, a Safe country. they are not fleeing persecution. so not refugees. By travelling through various safe countries to claim Asylum is not within the spirit of the convention, and therefore how can a successful claim be made for Asylum. These Syrians arriving are the best dressed, groomed, highly fashioned, tech clad, healthiest refugees in History. Its like people cannot remember what refugees look like, Kosovo, Gulf War I etc.. equal numbers of men,women and children, Including the elderly on the move.

What is an asylum seeker?

An asylum seeker is someone who has applied for asylum and is waiting for a decision as to whether or not they are a refugee. In other words, in the UK an asylum seeker is someone who has asked the Government for refugee status and is waiting to hear the outcome of their application

What is a Migrant?

A person who moves from one place to another in order to find work or better living Conditions.

What is a Illegal Migrant?

Illegal Migration is migration of people across National borders in a way that violates the immigration laws of the destination country.

we've seen mass violation of sovereign countries immigration laws and borders.

Im not surprised people are being confused by the terminology, as its being wrongly used in the mass Media. because we live in politically correct times have pressure groups and politically sensitive organisations condoning the word Illegal Migrant. and therefore shouldnt be used.

one example below.

The BBC NEWS: as been brought to task over the reporting of the crisis and the incorrect terminology used. - so in order for the BBC to get around using the correct terminology - and continue to use the incorrect terminology in their reports they now have put a disclaimer at the foot of all there news pieces.

The BBC are pre-empting the outcome as seen below. why are they not reporting the current status: IE: illgeal migrant. - because it doesnt fit in with the notion and picture they want to paint in the minds of the viewers. they dont want to say 20,000 illegal migrants have arrived in europe and are marching to Germany. they'd rather falsify the report and use the term economic migrant, or migrant.

A note on terminology: The BBC uses the term migrant to refer to all people on the move who have yet to complete the legal process of claiming asylum. This group includes people fleeing war-torn countries such as Syria, who are likely to be granted refugee status, as well as people who are seeking jobs and better lives, who governments are likely to rule are economic migrants.

[Katzenking]

The south is a tad more xenophobic than the north,

What ???

Be careful what you say fish-head! I had two Berliners for breakfast today.

And by the way, every appreciable resistance during the Nazi-Regime came from the Southwest.

Elser, Stauffenberg, the Scholl siblings, and I see myself in this tradition as well.

And again by the way, the 9/11 attacks have been planned in Hamburg...

I don't know what it is, may be the air? But the British are also breathing North-Sea air and are quite reasonable in comparison...

[toast]

in regards of 100-200 euros, I've been talking about Baltic states.

I`ve been talking about Germany and to make it clear that no German citizen have to live on just 100-200 euros/month.

[xYlvax]

My Oma says it's getting bad, like an invasion.

There were a ton of turks there last I went.

[kartikg]

I think the citizens should be given a choice during tac returns wether my taxes should be used for migrants or not.

[FLOMBIE]

What ???

Be careful what you say fish-head! I had two Berliners for breakfast today.

And by the way, every appreciable resistance during the Nazi-Regime came from the Southwest.

Elser, Stauffenberg, the Scholl siblings, and I see myself in this tradition as well.

And again by the way, the 9/11 attacks have been planned in Hamburg...

I don't know what it is, may be the air? But the British are also breathing North-Sea air and are quite reasonable in comparison...

Could you exaggerate what I said a bit more? I don't think so.

[FLOMBIE]

Oh wake up - and stop using the "compassionate crap" as some kind of an emotional ploy.

Just wait and see when they start demanding rights to gain special privileges in your country.

Wait and see how many more Mosques will be built.

So far - Australia is taking in approximately 12,000 Syrian refugees - ( a mere drop in the ocean compared to Germany and other countries).... but we are choosing to be cautious about the numbers - hence... selective who we allow through the door.

There will also be stringent back ground checks on these people - a wise move IMO.

It's not compassionate crap. Most of these people need help. You know, when the Axis defeated Nazi Germany, they could have shut the entire country down. Instead, they chose being Compassionate and give us Germans a chance, and we built on that and returned their trust. Now we will give these people a chance. That is always a risk, yes, but the right thing to do.

I have no problems with mosques. Why would I? I don't have a problem with any kind of religious temple, as long as they follow the law.

Of course there should be stringent background checks. We will do that.

[FLOMBIE]

Turkey is not at War by any strectch of the imagination, Turkey as been fighting the PKK insurgency for the last 30'odd years. ISIS Turkey along with the Saudi's were the backers of ISIS. or what was to become ISIS.

You seem to be using the smoke and mirrors tactic when referring to the protocols of claiming Asylum by quoting the EU rules only. - because conveniently for you Turkey doesnt appear on that list being Non-EU members, What you should be quoting is the laws which supersede EU Laws, that of United Nations Laws on refugees/Asylum. - Turkey today is deemed a safe country, and is a signatory to the UN's 1951 & 1967 Convention.

As for Immigration, just to explain the definition. from the UN.

[/i]

The people we see arriving on the Greek Islands of Lesbos & Kos, are coming from Turkey, a Safe country. they are not fleeing persecution. so not refugees. By travelling through various safe countries to claim Asylum is not within the spirit of the convention, and therefore how can a successful claim be made for Asylum. These Syrians arriving are the best dressed, groomed, highly fashioned, tech clad, healthiest refugees in History. Its like people cannot remember what refugees look like, Kosovo, Gulf War I etc.. equal numbers of men,women and children, Including the elderly on the move.

[/i]

[/i]

we've seen mass violation of sovereign countries immigration laws and borders.

Im not surprised people are being confused by the terminology, as its being wrongly used in the mass Media. because we live in politically correct times have pressure groups and politically sensitive organisations condoning the word Illegal Migrant. and therefore shouldnt be used.

one example below.

The BBC NEWS: as been brought to task over the reporting of the crisis and the incorrect terminology used. - so in order for the BBC to get around using the correct terminology - and continue to use the incorrect terminology in their reports they now have put a disclaimer at the foot of all there news pieces.

The BBC are pre-empting the outcome as seen below. why are they not reporting the current status: IE: illgeal migrant. - because it doesnt fit in with the notion and picture they want to paint in the minds of the viewers. they dont want to say 20,000 illegal migrants have arrived in europe and are marching to Germany. they'd rather falsify the report and use the term economic migrant, or migrant.

I studied Law at university and go by the terminology I have learned there. The factual terminology, you know, and not what the BBC chose for their coverage.

And still: What you posted did not in any way negate what I said. An asylum seeker is not an illegal immigrant. He is waiting for his asylum being granted or not, and that is not an illegal status.

I don't use smoke tactics. You just don't really know what your are talking about. Art. 16a GG in combination with §26a AsylVFG defines which countries are safe third countries. These are by default all EU members as well as Switzerland and Norway. Attachment II for §26a AsylVFG lists the other countries currently viewed as safe third countries and Turkey is not on that list. Which is not a big surprise, given that Turkey isn't well known for its safety and maintenance of human rights.

Edited September 11, 2015 by FLOMBIE

[stevewinn]

I studied Law at university and go by the terminology I have learned there. The factual terminology, you know, and not what the BBC chose for their coverage.

And still: What you posted did not in any way negate what I said. An asylum seeker is not an illegal immigrant. He is waiting for his asylum being granted or not, and that is not an illegal status.

I don't use smoke tactics. You just don't really know what your are talking about. Art. 16a GG in combination with §26a AsylVFG defines which countries are safe third countries. These are by default all EU members as well as Switzerland and Norway. Attachment II for §26a AsylVFG lists the other countries currently viewed as safe third countries and Turkey is not on that list. Which is not a big surprise, given that Turkey isn't well known for its safety and maintenance of human rights.

im sorry, But an Asylum seeker is only an Asylum seeker when they apply for Asylum. - just to highlight how your misinterpreting the status. - The people we see passing through various safe countries are illegal migrants. they might be potential Asylum seekers, but until such time they apply for Asylum they are Illegal migrants, take Hungary the People we see passing through their borders, NOT claiming Asylum are classed as Illegal Migrants, because they are breaking that countries immigration Laws. 1) they havent applied for a work/traval visa. and 2) they have not applied for Asylum in Hungary. regardless of them wanting to reach Germany.

If im wrong. Why have Hungary stated yesterday anyone entering their country will be arrested. as an illegal migrant.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34224999

[bmk1245]

Brother, for the last time. There are laws, and if people do not follow the law, they will be punished.[...]

Punished how? Detaining? Taking away daily allowance? Deporting?

[...] And you should project the intent of an individual onto an entire group.[...]

Huh? Maybe you meant shouldn't?

[...]

No, they all do the worst job possible. Are you kidding me? Of course will they try to do their job as best as they can, like every normal person does.

[...]

OK, I'll take your word for it...

[...]

If they break laws, yes of course! That is why we have those laws. If they don't they won't go to prison. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

[...]

Ah, OK. Prisoning in what country ("assigned" to Latvia, but caught in UK)? And after being released... Send them home (not temporary one)? Or try to keep him in Latvia?

[...]

Maybe call it for what it is: A house. Or if you want to give it a fancy name for its designed purpose: Housing for asylum seekers.

And maybe you would treat these people like normal human beings, and they wouldn't want to leave Latvia. Who likes to be treated as a second class citizen?

Oh dear... Every country is of the different life quality, especially eastern EU countries. In what way, insuring the same life quality (as crappy as locals get) in one poorer country becomes "a second class citizen" crap, huh?

BTW in Lithuania "house" is called Refugees Reception Center. Is it politically correct... ummm, term?

[bmk1245]

I`ve been talking about Germany and to make it clear that no German citizen have to live on just 100-200 euros/month.

I know that you are talking about Germany, and I'm talkin' about eastern EU countries. Vast majority of newcomers have no intentions to stay in those countries (events in Hungary, heck, even events in Denmark(!) have shown that). Maybe we should show humanity, and let all asylum seekers choose their destination EU country freely? How dare we to impose some stupid quotas... Edited September 12, 2015 by bmk1245