Michio Kaku: 'teleportation will be possible'

[Mr Walker]

If it takes a modern super computer to do the math to transport 1 atom. And if processing ability doubles every 1.5 years. Then it will only take about 140 years to reach a point where our computers are 10^27 times more powerful.

It is a lot more complex then that, but doubling can accomplish stuff relatively fast.

Why assume a progression as slow as that?

.engineers have taken a step forward in creating the next generation of computers and mobile devices capable of speeds millions of times faster than current machines.

The Utah engineers have developed an ultracompact beamsplitter—the smallest on record—for dividing light waves into two separate channels of information. The device brings researchers closer to producing silicon photonic chips that compute and shuttle data with light instead of electrons. Electrical and computer engineering associate professor Rajesh Menon and colleagues describe their invention today in the journal Nature Photonics.

http://phys.org/news/2015-05-team-big-faster.html

[Thorvir]

Though I doubt Kaku is right, I'll pass on being teleported. Give me a fast car and a long stretch of road before I get to my destination, and I'll be fine.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[+DieChecker]

Why assume a progression as slow as that?

.engineers have taken a step forward in creating the next generation of computers and mobile devices capable of speeds millions of times faster than current machines.

The Utah engineers have developed an ultracompact beamsplitter—the smallest on record—for dividing light waves into two separate channels of information. The device brings researchers closer to producing silicon photonic chips that compute and shuttle data with light instead of electrons. Electrical and computer engineering associate professor Rajesh Menon and colleagues describe their invention today in the journal Nature Photonics.

http://phys.org/news...big-faster.html

Working at the center of R&D here in Oregon, I could speak to what Intel is doing in this area, but I think it is still confidential. Regardless, Intel has been working on light based tech for close on a decade now, to my best estimate.

Building a prototype is one thing, building a process that can be mass produced is an entirely different fish.

http://www.intel.com...0727comp_sm.htm

Edited September 9, 2015 by DieChecker

[Calibeliever]

Just for comparison, it would be several orders of magnitude (millions of times) simpler to count, log and categorize every grain of sand on earth. There are only about 7*10¹⁸ of those.

[Rhino666]

Who wants to be first to try it?

[back to earth]

Cant believe no one has bought this up yet (I say we put Mr Walker in it for the test ) ;

[Mr Walker]

Working at the center of R&D here in Oregon, I could speak to what Intel is doing in this area, but I think it is still confidential. Regardless, Intel has been working on light based tech for close on a decade now, to my best estimate.

Building a prototype is one thing, building a process that can be mass produced is an entirely different fish.

http://www.intel.com...0727comp_sm.htm

True but once the science and technological capability is established, the rest will follow if/as funding and demand allow. And for something like this people will be fighting to get in on the ground floor.

[Mr Walker]

Cant believe no one has bought this up yet (I say we put Mr Walker in it for the test ) ;

Sadly i will be dead before the technology is ready but i would volunteer like a shot for the replication of my body and brain. One of me is so great that half a dozen would be fantastic.

Modern theory is to use an electronic template of a person to do the transfer, not a physical being, Thus no fly genes will be present unless some mad scientist writes them into your template.

YOur body and mind will be replicated in an "electronic" version. That template will be transferred as data to the destination, where a new you will be remade. We already know that entangled photons share identical properties,. and have already "transmitted' photons over quite long distances

[ChrLzs]

Mr Walker - now that you seem to accept that Kaku's claim is for a duplicate person being created, can you address what happens to the original?

And, at the destination, where would all the ingredients (including elements (eg the tiny, but very necessary, amounts of trace elements) and all the compounds (including some that are incredibly complex, like DNA and proteins) required for the new person come from..? Will this be a vending machine that contains neutrons, protons and electrons and just builds everything? You do know that 3d printers aren't exactly in that ballpark...? And what if it runs out of Cyan ink at a crucial moment, if you get my drift... and then, when would you find out. "Your DNA has lost a few bits? Oh bad luck, we've disintegrated the original of you... Sorry, you should have read the fine print.."

Do you have any idea of just how complex the human organism is at any given nano-second, and how all that varies in the next nanosecond? Do you not see the problem? And we haven't even gone near memories and brain activity...

I'm sorry, but I see one or two slight impediments to this 'great' idea, and also some rather inappropriate analogies (eg Columbus??? WTH???)

Some things, like my aforementioned example of putting the universe into a small paper bag, are simply impossible.

Edited September 10, 2015 by ChrLzs

[back to earth]

here ya go ... here is the explanation of ......... all that 'stuff' :

[Mr Walker]

Mr Walker - now that you seem to accept that Kaku's claim is for a duplicate person being created, can you address what happens to the original?

And, at the destination, where would all the ingredients (including elements (eg the tiny, but very necessary, amounts of trace elements) and all the compounds (including some that are incredibly complex, like DNA and proteins) required for the new person come from..? Will this be a vending machine that contains neutrons, protons and electrons and just builds everything? You do know that 3d printers aren't exactly in that ballpark...? And what if it runs out of Cyan ink at a crucial moment, if you get my drift... and then, when would you find out. "Your DNA has lost a few bits? Oh bad luck, we've disintegrated the original of you... Sorry, you should have read the fine print.."

Do you have any idea of just how complex the human organism is at any given nano-second, and how all that varies in the next nanosecond? Do you not see the problem? And we haven't even gone near memories and brain activity...

I'm sorry, but I see one or two slight impediments to this 'great' idea, and also some rather inappropriate analogies (eg Columbus??? WTH???)

Some things, like my aforementioned example of putting the universe into a small paper bag, are simply impossible.

I am going on documentaries about this science But ive always known that there are TWO possibilities; the transfer of the original involving the destruction of the original and the construction of a second version of the first. It depends on how the scanning of the original person is done ie whether the scanning process requires a destruction of the original as the scan is done.

The concept behind this is the basically interchangeable nature of energy and matter If you can interchange energy and matter you could send energy to a destination in a coherent form based on data and reformat that energy as matter using the data package attached Similar work in other fields involves energy fields being used to replace physical structures.

It is NOT like 3d printing which requires source materiel but there are similarities. 3d printing of food clothing etc using remote data and local raw materials is now a forgone conclusion and will occur commercially very soon You can already construct everything from chocolates through guns to clothing in your home, using a variety of raw materials and templates from a remote location.

The dna would not be lost if the scan was accurate and detailed It is only the processing power and speed of computing which holds this back at present and new computers will be millions of times faster than present ones. Thus the complexity of a human being wont be a problem in 80 years time In the mean time the technology will begin with simpler more basic materials I think people struggle to comprehend the advances in computing and other technologies which will occur in just a couple of decades. 80 years is so far away that i think matter transmission might actually be old hat and bypassed by a more modern technology by then.

The analogy of columbus is basic. 500 years ago sailing ships restricted the speed of travel and no one could foresee steam ships let alone scram jets Thus thinking about everything associated with travel exploration trade settlement etc. was restricted by the understanding of limitations whic began to cease over time. Today i can send fresh oysters to china and they can be eaten within 24 hours of being harvested from the sea The way we think to day is similarly restricted by current technology BUT actually human body and mind is not really very complex It just seems so to us today In time we will be able to replicate it easily and instantly It again depends on computing power and speed

I am not sure what your point about the universe and a paper bag was. It would be easier to construct a paper bag big enough to contain the universe than shrink the universe to fit in a bag but either might be possible in time Hawing now thinks that black holes may be traversable, at least by data packages,. and may indeed be gateways between universes. He is correct

[Mr Walker]

here ya go ... here is the explanation of ......... all that 'stuff' :

Very true, but not really relevant. This is science, not an affair of the heart.

[Mr Walker]

There seem to be two basic arguments against human teleportation First the complexity of the human being That is not REALLY an issue in that it can be solved with increased computational power

The other argument is more problematic Once it is achieved it will change the nature of being human . For example it is quite possible you might end up with a dozen identical clones of yourself in different places. Personally i think tha its a bonus but it scares some people One actual side development of teleportation will be the replication of human minds and bodies so that you can have back up memories and bodies; and with cloning of new bodies basically live for ever There are scientists working on this all over the world and some of them believe that their own children will become immortal through this technology.

An ancillary technology being developed is an artificial brain capable of containing a copy of a human mind (memories thoughts identity etc) Again this is a joint venture in many countries with darpa doing a lot of the work in the USA. It began as early as the 1980s and scientists working on it say they are only a decade or so away from achieving it. Once quantum computing is perfected it will be quite possible to construct an artificial intelligence capable of hosting a human mind temporarily or permanently as a copy or for other purposes.

http://www.artificialbrains.com/

Edited September 10, 2015 by Mr Walker

[back to earth]

It is really an issue and computers won't solve it.

(See, anyone can just declare anything by stating it is so )

Do some research on what it would require for a computer to work like a real human brain.

Just because a computer can run rings around some separated mental functions (like calculations) doesnt mean it can or ever will function holistically as a human mind can.

[back to earth]

and as for you 'evidence' link .... the first line is a great joke !

" Artificial brains are man-made machines that are just as intelligent, creative, and self-aware as humans.

No such machine has yet been built, .... "

[Mr Walker]

and as for you 'evidence' link .... the first line is a great joke !

" Artificial brains are man-made machines that are just as intelligent, creative, and self-aware as humans.

No such machine has yet been built, .... "

well duh i never claimed they had been .YET

I said the experts say it is about a decade away from being built.

Perhaps you should not have cut your quote off so quickly.

Artificial brains are man-made machines that are just as intelligent, creative, and self-aware as humans. No such machine has yet been built, but it is only a matter of time.

I t would be helpful if you actually read my posts carefully and accurately, and didn't try to reinterpret or imagine them into something else.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Mr Walker

[Derek Willis]

Mr Walker - now that you seem to accept that Kaku's claim is for a duplicate person being created, can you address what happens to the original?

Have you not seen the movie "The Prestige"? The original gets dropped into a tank of water and drowned! That seems the sensible thing to do.

[WoIverine]

.

Edited September 11, 2015 by WoIverine

[Mr Walker]

Have you not seen the movie "The Prestige"? The original gets dropped into a tank of water and drowned! That seems the sensible thing to do.

yes that was an interesting take on the science I liked the Tesla link. But the killing was done to preserve the illusion and the secret of the trick. It wasnt actually necessary or a part of the process.. If the process was successful, it didn't matter how many copies of a person there are running around. Each becomes an individual human being from that point on.

[Derek Willis]

yes that was an interesting take on the science I liked the Tesla link. But the killing was done to preserve the illusion and the secret of the trick. It wasnt actually necessary or a part of the process.. If the process was successful, it didn't matter how many copies of a person there are running around. Each becomes an individual human being from that point on.

Having watched "The Prestige" umpteen times, I don't think the teleporter worked at all. Here's my theory:

Tesla naively believed his machine worked because the hats were found outside. However, his assistant Alley had placed the hats (and the two cats) there so that both Tesla and Angier thought the machine worked. Alley had done that because he wanted Angier to give Tesla the money. Angier tried out the machine, and realized it didn't work. But, he realized that if he could be tricked into believing it worked, then so could other people - especially his rival magician Borden.

Angier set up a show, the aim of which which was ultimately to prove to Borden who was the best magician, and also to frame Borden for murder (in revenge for accidentally killing Angier's wife). Angier carried out the trick each night using Gerald Root as his "double". On the night that Borden was in the audience, Angier arranged for Root to fall into the tank and be drowned. Hence Borden was framed for the murder.

The bodies in the tanks at the end of the movie were dummies, placed there to continue the illusion that the teleporter was real and that the originals were drowned. Of course, Angier hadn't realized that Borden had a twin brother, and so got his comeuppance in the end.

As Cutter says at the end of the movie, an audience isn't really looking, because they want to be fooled.

The movie is about magicians and the lengths they will go to in an attempt to outdo their rivals. Consequently, if the teleportation was real it would make a nonsense of the premise of the film by introducing an element of science fiction.

[Mr Walker]

Having watched "The Prestige" umpteen times, I don't think the teleporter worked at all. Here's my theory:

Tesla naively believed his machine worked because the hats were found outside. However, his assistant Alley had placed the hats (and the two cats) there so that both Tesla and Angier thought the machine worked. Alley had done that because he wanted Angier to give Tesla the money. Angier tried out the machine, and realized it didn't work. But, he realized that if he could be tricked into believing it worked, then so could other people - especially his rival magician Borden.

Angier set up a show, the aim of which which was ultimately to prove to Borden who was the best magician, and also to frame Borden for murder (in revenge for accidentally killing Angier's wife). Angier carried out the trick each night using Gerald Root as his "double". On the night that Borden was in the audience, Angier arranged for Root to fall into the tank and be drowned. Hence Borden was framed for the murder.

The bodies in the tanks at the end of the movie were dummies, placed there to continue the illusion that the teleporter was real and that the originals were drowned. Of course, Angier hadn't realized that Borden had a twin brother, and so got his comeuppance in the end.

As Cutter says at the end of the movie, an audience isn't really looking, because they want to be fooled.

The movie is about magicians and the lengths they will go to in an attempt to outdo their rivals. Consequently, if the teleportation was real it would make a nonsense of the premise of the film by introducing an element of science fiction.

That is a fair interpretation but i consider the film WAS science fiction (and meant to be seen as such) More than that, as as many science fiction films do it deliberately used real/known science and in this case specifically Tesla's work to give credibility to the film and contribute to the plot (which i agree was one of jealously and revenge within a magicians circle.).

For me the teleportaion made the story line work, and your scenario is too complex and would fail by being found out ( i wouldn't have believed that plot line, and the film would have been FAR less enjoyable to me if it was just an ordinary crime). BUT this depends on one being able to suspend ones disbelief about teleportation existing since Tesla's time, which is probably false.

I am also convinced by the sequential revealing of elements of the story/plot, that the writers intended the teleporter to be real (otherwise all the other stuff/background information about Tesla and his achievements is irrelevant to the audience)

Edited September 12, 2015 by Mr Walker

[back to earth]

yes that was an interesting take on the science I liked the Tesla link. But the killing was done to preserve the illusion and the secret of the trick. It wasnt actually necessary or a part of the process.. If the process was successful, it didn't matter how many copies of a person there are running around. Each becomes an individual human being from that point on.

No . no human being can occupy the same time space location more than once ... all the science fiction stories say that!

[back to earth]

That is a fair interpretation but i consider the film WAS science fiction (and meant to be seen as such) More than that, as as many science fiction films do it deliberately used real/known science and in this case specifically Tesla's work to give credibility to the film and contribute to the plot (which i agree was one of jealously and revenge within a magicians circle.).

For me the teleportaion made the story line work, and your scenario is too complex and would fail by being found out ( i wouldn't have believed that plot line, and the film would have been FAR less enjoyable to me if it was just an ordinary crime). BUT this depends on one being able to suspend ones disbelief about teleportation existing since Tesla's time, which is probably false.

I am also convinced by the sequential revealing of elements of the story/plot, that the writers intended the teleporter to be real (otherwise all the other stuff/background information about Tesla and his achievements is irrelevant to the audience)

No, its a great interpretation ... just because its too complex for you doesnt mean it is actually too complex ... actually, it makes perfect sense considering the whole theme of the movie ..... and also because, as we know, human teleportation is nonsense

[Hawken]

A good way to avoid rush hour traffic.

[Mr Walker]

No, its a great interpretation ... just because its too complex for you doesnt mean it is actually too complex ... actually, it makes perfect sense considering the whole theme of the movie ..... and also because, as we know, human teleportation is nonsense

Working backwards It is science fiction because teleportation is not currently possible and wasn't when the movie was set. BUT there are plenty of movies with teleportaion in them. Are you saying the makers of star trek didn't actually write in teleportation as a reality in the story line Was it actually that each crew member had twin brothers? Na too complex .

The complexity of such plotting is such that it would prevent the audience suspending disbelief . Teleportation also requires a suspension of disbelief but works credibly as a deus ex machina in the story.

Finally if you read all the blogs reviews etc. on the film, including those which examine the writers intent, you see the whole trick in the film was the actual teleportation. It was what made the trick possible given all the testing of it.

The bad guy even used blind workers to hide his own body appearing in the tank every time. The trick was that there WAS no illusion. It was real, but required one version of the man dying. He had never considered that his clone died an agonising death every time, because his memory did not include that. When this was pointed out to him he was shocked.

The audience of the film was not meant to be able to work it out until the trick/ was made clear, although it was obvious to me, having read many similar story lines before. That was why the story was not told in a linear sequence but did give a number of clues, such as the many top hats at the start of the film.

There were many horrors in the film, but for me it was the idea of just killing clones of yourself, rather than letting them live on, which struck home Sure they knew what was coming and in a sense volunteered for it, because they had the same driver /motivation as the original (until the point of separation they WERE the original) but once they separated, they were the ones drowning . At that point they might well have changed their minds, but could do nothing, and that made it one human, murdering a totally new person..