Refugees Begin Hunger Strike

[141]

Naw, just an attempt to troll me with inaccuracies, veiled insults, and a complete lack of common sense. You shouldn't support such ignorance.

as i have said in another post the problem i see here is that some people here act very superior over others . after all we are talking about human lives here . these people act because of the extreme situations they are in yet many here talk about them and label these people . to talk about someone personally and assume of course is wrong but maybe it is how you came across . these people need help that should be the forefront and having seen those situations in turkey i know exactly what is going on . More power to those who go out of their in helping anyone in need ....

[Deleted]

invasion must be sudden or armed according to oxford dictionary, I neither see them beeing armed nor do I see it beeing sudden.

Also it is quite funny that soemone, who doesnt see a problem in leting innocent people die and accusing them of beeing "invaders", claims to have the moral authority here.

Well you can believe in whatever you want, but it doesnt change the fact that building a fence, letting people die and engaging in hysteria and lies about refugees will not solve the problem it will only make it worse. And even if the intention of the fence was to stop refugees and immigrant it doesnt change its effect which is isolation, neither the EU nor Hungary stands on her own, they are just parts of the world and the world ultimatly consists of billions of people and building a fence wont change that. There will always be migration and refugees as long as there is war and other conflicts.

Also you cant run away from your responsibility as a citizen of a western country, it was the west who armed the rebels in Syria it was the west which attacked Afghanistan, Iraq and Lybia. It was the west who supported the "revolution" in Ukraine. It was all part of a strategy (divide and conquer) to destabilze the middle east and above all Russian allies. The refugee crisis is a direct consequence of western politics.

All in all you have proven to be the kind of person I thought you to be by stating that the money for the fence was a good investment, while spending the money to buy a meal for children who fled war is a waste of money and an invasion of your "home".

[Thorvir]

as i have said in another post the problem i see here is that some people here act very superior over others . after all we are talking about human lives here . these people act because of the extreme situations they are in yet many here talk about them and label these people . to talk about someone personally and assume of course is wrong but maybe it is how you came across . these people need help that should be the forefront and having seen those situations in turkey i know exactly what is going on . More power to those who go out of their in helping anyone in need ....

In fact, these people in question do not need help, as they could easily afford and are quite capable of leaving the country on their own to seek better pastures. They should have remained and used their advantages to actually help those that are stuck. Or, in fact, fight for their homes and families.

I have, in the past, helped out. And it was to those that actually needed it. And I will again, to those people that actually need it.

But this current argument is about Hungary, or any other country being forced to accept these migrants against their will, and the arrogance of one poster that seems to think this sort of thing is morally acceptable. If Hungary doesn't want these people in their country, then so be it. That's their decision and no one else's. Merkel can go stuff it, as can anyone else thinking they are entitled to make other people do stuff against their wills.

[kartikg]

A quick question are the refugees Shia ? If yes that explains the apathy of middle east nations.

[Deleted]

In fact, these people in question do not need help, as they could easily afford and are quite capable of leaving the country on their own to seek better pastures. They should have remained and used their advantages to actually help those that are stuck. Or, in fact, fight for their homes and families.

I have, in the past, helped out. And it was to those that actually needed it. And I will again, to those people that actually need it.

But this current argument is about Hungary, or any other country being forced to accept these migrants against their will, and the arrogance of one poster that seems to think this sort of thing is morally acceptable. If Hungary doesn't want these people in their country, then so be it. That's their decision and no one else's. Merkel can go stuff it, as can anyone else thinking they are entitled to make other people do stuff against their wills.

I think you cant imagine it, how it must be in a wartorn country. The families there sell what they have and chose one person in their family which flees, since they cant afford to send more. Most of the time it is a young man they pick and send him away in hope he can built a new life and help the rest of the family. People who have wealth there must pay money for protection otherwise their children get raped and killed, every day people try to rob them, thats how it is in Syria. I think you are not able to imagine how it is to live in such a country.

Anyway western countries could register them check their asylum aplication, instead of engaging in this hysteria.

Edited September 18, 2015 by hellwyr

[141]

In fact, these people in question do not need help, as they could easily afford and are quite capable of leaving the country on their own to seek better pastures. They should have remained and used their advantages to actually help those that are stuck. Or, in fact, fight for their homes and families.

I have, in the past, helped out. And it was to those that actually needed it. And I will again, to those people that actually need it.

But this current argument is about Hungary, or any other country being forced to accept these migrants against their will, and the arrogance of one poster that seems to think this sort of thing is morally acceptable. If Hungary doesn't want these people in their country, then so be it. That's their decision and no one else's. Merkel can go stuff it, as can anyone else thinking they are entitled to make other people do stuff against their wills.

so here it goes again and that is not to strike an argument but you speak of against THEiR will ... the west have always conquered and invaded other peoples homelands . as i said in another post french invaded my country and many westerners invaded my continent the british invaded india and many other countries america was invaded and the indians wiped out ... invasion with weapons that these countries couldnt defend themselves against ... these people simply want to pass let them help them they are humans do you know each one of them have you been there and seen the situations they are in ??? have you really seen it for yourself or do you just base it on what you see on tv ? what has happened to peoples hearts to become so stone cold for people in need ...

Edited September 18, 2015 by YA AMAR

[141]

I think you cant imagine it, how it must be in a wartorn country. The families there sell what they have and chose one person in their family which flees, since they cant afford to send more. Most of the time it is a young man they pick and send him away in hope he can built a new life and help the rest of the family. People who have wealth there must pay money for protection otherwise their children get raped and killed, every day people try to rob them, thats how it is in Syria. I think you are not able to imagine how it is to live in such a country.

Anyway they can register them check their asylum aplication and thats it instead of engaging in this hysteria.

exactly as you say ... thats what i have seen when i was there . people either cant or wont understand it ,what really goes on in a war zone .

[Thorvir]

invasion must be sudden or armed according to oxford dictionary, I neither see them beeing armed nor do I see it beeing sudden.

Also it is quite funny that soemone, who doesnt see a problem in leting innocent people die and accusing them of beeing "invaders", claims to have the moral authority here.

Oh please, now I'm letting "innocent" people die. Seriously, you're just embarrassing yourself now. I am part of the moral high ground, because I'm intelligent enough and wise enough to know that Hungary has a right to let whoever they want to in or to prevent whoever they want to from entering. The fact that you think different shows that you have a great disdain for that country's freedom of choice.

Well you can believe in whatever you want, but it doesnt change the fact that building a fence, letting people die and engaging in hysteria and lies about refugees will not solve the problem it will only make it worse.

They aren't "letting people die", and they have no obligation to take part in solving other people's problems. Again, what is it with you thinking you can dictate what other people should do or not do?

And even if the intention of the fence was to stop refugees and immigrant it doesnt change its effect which is isolation, neither the EU nor Hungary stands on her own, they are just parts of the world and the world ultimatly consists of billions of people and building a fence wont change that. There will always be migration and refugees as long as there is war and other conflicts.

Yes, and there are legal ways for migrating people and refugees to be dealt with--forcing your way into a country using violence isn't that; that's called an invasion, and their lucky Hungary doesn't respond to it that way Again, just because you have a bleeding heart doesn't mean you can dictate what other people do or don't do.

Also you cant run away from your responsibility as a citizen of a western country, it was the west who armed the rebels in Syria it was the west which attacked Afghanistan, Iraq and Lybia. It was the west who supported the "revolution" in Ukraine. It was all part of a strategy (divide and conquer) to destabilze the middle east and above all Russian allies. The refugee crisis is a direct consequence of western politics.

Always the fault of the West....get a new tune, okay? That conspiracy theory doesn't help you at all. Again, it is just your opinion and not a very-well supported one in that. Even if you're right, and the West did all these big bad things, it's still not my responsibility, as I didn't do those things. But, in actuality, the problems there are their own doing, and should be resolved, ultimately, on their own. I shouldn't have to be dragged into their problems just because you think you have the power to dictate what other people do or don't do.

All in all you have proven to be the kind of person I thought you to be by stating that the money for the fence was a good investment, while spending the money to buy a meal for children who fled war is a waste of money and an invasion of your "home".

Really? And I should care...why? Again, these aren't starving masses of children, they're migrants, illegally and at times violently trying to force their way into a country that doesn't want them there. And yet, you still think that you can dictate what other people should do or don't do.

Back, lets get back to a couple of things.

1) I'm still waiting to read how many of these poor, desperate refugees are being fed and sheltered by you.

2) I'm still waiting for your proof that I'm all those things you claimed earlier:

And I bet you couldnt survive one minute like they do, you would cry that the world is so bad and unfair, you sit on your wealth, which is built on the blood of the earth, on war fought in far away countries and shamlessly wish innocent people to die, because you fear of your home, while you dont even see that you wont get one additional euro wether refugees enter the country or not, you want to believe in stupid crap politicians tell you

3) Your bit of hate-speech against those that don't share your opinion:

One thing I learnd from this crisis there are a lot of great people who help refugees in their free time and there are a lot of dumb peopel who dont deserve to be on this earth.

[Dark_Grey]

Well you can believe in whatever you want, but it doesnt change the fact that building a fence, letting people die and engaging in hysteria and lies about refugees will not solve the problem it will only make it worse. And even if the intention of the fence was to stop refugees and immigrant it doesnt change its effect which is isolation, neither the EU nor Hungary stands on her own, they are just parts of the world and the world ultimatly consists of billions of people and building a fence wont change that. There will always be migration and refugees as long as there is war and other conflicts.

Engaging in MSM lies and hysteria while burying your head in the sand will only make it worse. The truth is the sum total of both sides - MSM reports coupled with independent sources on the ground. It's the only way to get a clear picture for those of us that aren't living it

Also you cant run away from your responsibility as a citizen of a western country, it was the west who armed the rebels in Syria it was the west which attacked Afghanistan, Iraq and Lybia. It was the west who supported the "revolution" in Ukraine. It was all part of a strategy (divide and conquer) to destabilze the middle east and above all Russian allies. The refugee crisis is a direct consequence of western politics.

Did Hungary or Germany for that matter destabilize Syria? What about Sweden? Why should they deal with the fallout of what is clearly American imperialism/cold war games/resource plundering? "The West" doesn't mean "any country of white people"

All in all you have proven to be the kind of person I thought you to be by stating that the money for the fence was a good investment, while spending the money to buy a meal for children who fled war is a waste of money and an invasion of your "home".

The migrants covered their faces and started tossing cinder blocks at Police - they made it pretty clear "feeding children" is not priority one here. What about the trucks being attacked outside tunnels? Or the innocent commuters pulled out of cars and beaten? This is chaos, pure and simple. You can get away with a lot when you're part of a mob mentality

[Thorvir]

so here it goes again and that is not to strike an argument but you speak of against THEİR will ... the west have always conquered and invaded other peoples homelands

I should stop right there, as it's a complete load of idiocy...and you should actually think before using the word "always".

. as i said in another post french invaded my country and many westerners invaded my continent the british invaded india and many other countries america was invaded and the indians wiped out ... invasion with weapons that these countries couldnt defend themselves against ... these people simply want to pass let them help them they are humans do you know each one of them have you been there and seen the situations they are in ??? have you really seen it for yourself or do you just base it on what you see on tv ? what has happened to peoples hearts to become so stone cold for people in need ...

LOL. My heart is not "stone cold" for people in need, so you should stop making this about me. I support any country that doesn't want to ruin itself financially and culturally just to cater to a bunch of migrants that should have stayed where they were and tried to fix their own problems. But, instead, they fled to greener pastures, leaving those that are actually in need to suffer. Why would you support that sort of thing, it's horrible?

[stevewinn]

The language being used in the EU is a damn disgrace, We have 7 countries who DO NOT agree with the proposed EU quota. So Threats are being issued. first it was, EU funds will be held back from EU members who do not agree to quotas. second threat was the EU will place Sanctions on those countries who do not agree to quotas. and thirdly today German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier says EU members reluctant to accept migrant quotas might have to be over-ruled with a majority vote at a summit on 23 September.

The EU is failing at every hurdle. With the News coming out today borders being closed and check put in place, from as far south as Slovenia to the far north of Norway. Schengen is collapsing, But whose surprised the whole EU project is a fair-weather project once it faces a storm it falls apart. I've always said the EU project will end in tears, i never knew how or when, but i knew it would and make no mistake about it, its going to fall apart in some style, from Eurozone economic woes, to EU expansion, and proxy war with a Global power bringing war to the borders of europe once again,(Russia-Ukraine crisis), to the crisis we see today of mass migration of migrants, refugees, illegal migrants, chancers and everyone inbetween.

Its a glorious day to be a Island Nation, the quicker we have our EU referendum the better.

[Thorvir]

I think you cant imagine it, how it must be in a wartorn country. The families there sell what they have and chose one person in their family which flees, since they cant afford to send more. Most of the time it is a young man they pick and send him away in hope he can built a new life and help the rest of the family. People who have wealth there must pay money for protection otherwise their children get raped and killed, every day people try to rob them, thats how it is in Syria. I think you are not able to imagine how it is to live in such a country.

Really? You've been there personally and seen all of this? Because reports clash with what you're claiming.

Anyway western countries could register them check their asylum aplication, instead of engaging in this hysteria.

Just because you label it hysteria doesn't make it so. Any country has the right to allow or prevent anyone from entering their country. You need to start using common sense.

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to prove your claims about me, to address the hate-speech directed at those that don't share your opinion, and let me know how many refugees are currently being sheltered by you.

[Deleted]

Engaging in MSM lies and hysteria while burying your head in the sand will only make it worse. The truth is the sum total of both sides - MSM reports coupled with independent sources on the ground. It's the only way to get a clear picture for those of us that aren't living it

Did Hungary or Germany for that matter destabilize Syria? What about Sweden? Why should they deal with the fallout of what is clearly American imperialism/cold war games/resource plundering? "The West" doesn't mean "any country of white people"

The migrants covered their faces and started tossing cinder blocks at Police - they made it pretty clear "feeding children" is not priority one here. What about the trucks being attacked outside tunnels? Or the innocent commuters pulled out of cars and beaten? This is chaos, pure and simple. You can get away with a lot when you're part of a mob mentality

The sad truth is that most western countries are either directly (NATO) or indirectly (selling weaponary..ect) supporting that strategy. You konw that the refugees who got "violant" were camping outside for days without food, how many people would turn violent in that situation, many.

[Dark_Grey]

All in all you have proven to be the kind of person I thought you to be by stating that the money for the fence was a good investment, while spending the money to buy a meal for children who fled war is a waste of money and an invasion of your "home".

I feel bad for Hungary. They are being attacked on all sides by Europe for handling this crisis the best way they can. Keep the hordes at bay, filter them in slowly and protect your national interests at the same time. Just opening the flood gates and keeping a smile on your face is a great way to rot your country from the inside, IMO. Islamic radicals could care less if you feel like your country has the moral high ground

[141]

I should stop right there, as it's a complete load of idiocy...and you should actually think before using the word "always".

LOL. My heart is not "stone cold" for people in need, so you should stop making this about me. I support any country that doesn't want to ruin itself financially and culturally just to cater to a bunch of migrants that should have stayed where they were and tried to fix their own problems. But, instead, they fled to greener pastures, leaving those that are actually in need to suffer. Why would you support that sort of thing, it's horrible?

what you call idiocy i call truth ...but oh well . you see its the tone you use and how you word things that makes you look rather arrogant . . i see that you dont want to understand it and its your right of course but dont act like you are superior over other people . Secondly i did not address you personally i made an overall statement about peoples hearts

[Dark_Grey]

The sad truth is that most western countries are either directly (NATO) or indirectly (selling weaponary..ect) supporting that strategy. You konw that the refugees who got "violant" were camping outside for days without food, how many people would turn violent in that situation, many.

Sure. And the black "protesters" that burned their own neighborhoods down only did so because they were angry at the system, right? I'm going to need sources on the "several days without food" - everything I've read said it lasted a day, and they were refusing food being offered to make a point

[Thorvir]

I feel bad for Hungary. They are being attacked on all sides by Europe for handling this crisis the best way they can. Keep the hordes at bay, filter them in slowly and protect your national interests at the same time. Just opening the flood gates and keeping a smile on your face is a great way to rot your country from the inside, IMO. Islamic radicals could care less if you feel like your country has the moral high ground

That's exactly right. Hungary is doing what's best for Hungary, as they should be doing. If Germany (Merkel) and others wants to give up their funds and space and identity just to coddle to a bunch of cowardly migrants that demand nothing short of being completely dependent, then that's their right as well.

[141]

The sad truth is that most western countries are either directly (NATO) or indirectly (selling weaponary..ect) supporting that strategy. You konw that the refugees who got "violant" were camping outside for days without food, how many people would turn violent in that situation, many.

exactly ... having worked for the military i know its a strategy . people who tried to help were often turned away , when the military steps in their hands are bound . People who brought food and water and blankets where turned back ..

[Thorvir]

what you call idiocy i call truth ...but oh well . you see its the tone you use and how you word things that makes you look rather arrogant . . i see that you dont want to understand it and its your right of course but dont act like you are superior over other people . Secondly i did not address you personally i made an overall statement about peoples hearts

You can see whatever "tone" you think you want to see in my posts, that doesn't change the fact that I'm right. Sorry that the truth hurts your feelings, but it is what it is. And I understand everything about this completely. You and your side want every country to open it's borders and suffer the consequences to a horde of violent migrants, and to spend their national resources to the point of exhaustion to fix problems that aren't theirs to address. Those aren't good things at all.

If you want to pretend to not address me directly, you shouldn't quote my posts directly and post directly to me. It's really that simple. Otherwise, I'm going to continue to figuratively bash you and others around the head and neck with my truncheon of common sense and counter what is directly directed at me.

[141]

You can see whatever "tone" you think you want to see in my posts, that doesn't change the fact that I'm right. Sorry that the truth hurts your feelings, but it is what it is. And I understand everything about this completely. You and your side want every country to open it's borders and suffer the consequences to a horde of violent migrants, and to spend their national resources to the point of exhaustion to fix problems that aren't theirs to address. Those aren't good things at all.

If you want to pretend to not address me directly, you shouldn't quote my posts directly and post directly to me. It's really that simple. Otherwise, I'm going to continue to figuratively bash you and others around the head and neck with my truncheon of common sense and counter what is directly directed at me.

you can bash all you want ...but fact is you accuse others of violence but your words come across like from the angels tongue ...right ? your common sense, not mine . it doesnt hurt my feelings i just feel sorry for so much resentment towards other people . quote '' those that are the loudest in their threats are the weakest in their actions '' end quote

[Thorvir]

you can bash all you want ...but fact is you accuse others of violence but your words come across like from the angels tongue ...right ? your common sense, not mine . it doesnt hurt my feelings i just feel sorry for so much resentment towards other people . quote '' those that are the loudest in their threats are the weakest in their actions '' end quote

This is predictable, since my argument is unassailable, go after me directly. Sigh. A strong sign that this discussion is winding down...

By the way, where do I have all this "resentment" for other people, because, honestly, I know exactly where it is placed and am sure you don't know what you're talking about--but let me address that in a bit to make sure I'm absolutely clear. I am showing concern for nations and people that want to protect their national interests, such as Hungary, while others here would rather dictate what nations and people can and can't do against their (those nations' and peoples') will.

If you want to be accurate, for once, then know that my resentment is directed at those bigots and hypocrites that are demanding Hungary and others open their borders to a flood of violent immigrants that only want free hand outs and have no concern doing it legally. You know the ones, they expect everyone else to conform to their opinions and if they don't they shouldn't be on this planet anymore--and yet all the while won't actually lift a finger and allow one single "refugee" living space and free meals on their own land. And I also have resentment toward those violent migrants that are trying to take advantage of those naive enough to fall for this sort of thing, the people that make this all the worse by coddling them. And, finally, resentment toward ISIS and other islamist factions that started this whole terrible mess in the first place.

So, if this post offends you because of my phantom "tone", that's your problem, not mine, because what I say is right.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[Deleted]

Sure. And the black "protesters" that burned their own neighborhoods down only did so because they were angry at the system, right? I'm going to need sources on the "several days without food" - everything I've read said it lasted a day, and they were refusing food being offered to make a point

I wont discuss institutional racism in this thread .... As the violence in this particualt incident is concerned Ya MAR answered your question for me.

Hungary isnt a soverign state anymore as every EU country; EU law is superior to national law, they have a single currency, a european parliamant and jurisdication. Hungary gets a lot of EU money, it is not Hungary`s decision alone. Hungarys action led to conflicts within the EU and it will further escalate. Hungary always was a weird country but since Orban came to power it just got worse, he is a brainless right wing fascist who agitates everyone against everyone. The handling of this refugee crisis is but one of his many failures as a politician.

[Thorvir]

I wont discuss institutional racism in this thread .... As the violence in this particualt incident is concerned Ya MAR answered your question for me.

Hungary isnt a soverign state anymore as every EU country; EU law is superior to national law, they have a single currency, a european parliamant and jurisdication. Hungary gets a lot of EU money, it is not Hungary`s decision alone. Hungarys action led to conflicts within the EU and it will further escalate. Hungary always was a weird country but since Orban came to power it just got worse, he is a brainless right wing fascist who agitates everyone against everyone. The handling of this refugee crisis is but one of his many failures as a politician.

So...because someone disagrees with you, they are a "brainless right wing fascist". Tsk tsk, so much hatred from you. At least I feel better about stating the obvious and calling Merkel and complete idiot now....

He seems to be doing what is best for his country. Once again, you hypocrites and bigots seem to think that your option should be shared by others even if it is against their wills.

And as for the EU...it's proving itself to be more trouble than its worth, and a sovereign nation, which Hungary and every other country is, shouldn't be forced into national suicide. Maybe it's time for a dissolution?

[141]

This is predictable, since my argument is unassailable, go after me directly. Sigh. A strong sign that this discussion is winding down...

By the way, where do I have all this "resentment" for other people, because, honestly, I know exactly where it is placed and am sure you don't know what you're talking about--but let me address that in a bit to make sure I'm absolutely clear. I am showing concern for nations and people that want to protect their national interests, such as Hungary, while others here would rather dictate what nations and people can and can't do against their (those nations' and peoples') will.

If you want to be accurate, for once, then know that my resentment is directed at those bigots and hypocrites that are demanding Hungary and others open their borders to a flood of violent immigrants that only want free hand outs and have no concern doing it legally. You know the ones, they expect everyone else to conform to their opinions and if they don't they shouldn't be on this planet anymore--and yet all the while won't actually lift a finger and allow one single "refugee" living space and free meals on their own land. And I also have resentment toward those violent migrants that are trying to take advantage of those naive enough to fall for this sort of thing, the people that make this all the worse by coddling them. And, finally, resentment toward ISIS and other islamist factions that started this whole terrible mess in the first place.

So, if this post offends you because of my phantom "tone", that's your problem, not mine, because what I say is right.

put down that little wooden sword of yours and be a bit humble as a human being should ....i do agree to some extend that there are opportunists among those people however it should not be that you comb all of them with the same brush . i have worked for the military and know damn well about many things that go on . You can feel resentment towards isis and i state it for those ignorant people that isis has not any association with islam as much as they may claim maybe you need to get educated what isis really is and who supports isis ... we all resent isis ...the fact remains that there are innocent people suffering !!!!!! what you think you say is right is your opinion that doesnt make it right for others . we merely voice opinions and views . if you wish to keep you guard up and refuse to see the need for those people then yes it is your right to do so . is it right or correct from a human point of view ...no , i dont think so

[Helen of Annoy]

So...because someone disagrees with you, they are a "brainless right wing fascist". Tsk tsk, so much hatred from you. At least I feel better about stating the obvious and calling Merkel and complete idiot now....

He seems to be doing what is best for his country. Once again, you hypocrites and bigots seem to think that your option should be shared by others even if it is against their wills.

And as for the EU...it's proving itself to be more trouble than its worth, and a sovereign nation, which Hungary and every other country is, shouldn't be forced into national suicide. Maybe it's time for a dissolution?

You can dissolute your US, I'll decide what I'll do with my union.

The more your kind froths about EU, the more necessary it is, despite its obvious faults. It will get better with time, it's still under construction.