Refugees Begin Hunger Strike

[141]

I just think your a liar. - its Human nature for anyone to take pictures of their time working at a humanitarian refugee camp. Not asking for pictures of misery. It was you who said you had worked at a UN refugee camp. and at no time whatsoever you didn't take memento. very strange.

you are a liar for calling me a liar where did you read UN camp ??? iHH not UN you talk like a little boy to me i dont know what part of the world you come from but we dont take pictures . its you that lies . Bully gang ... even if i showed you some pictures next thing would be that they are fake ... so grow up

[Thorvir]

of course food is better than not haveing any food at all, why do they leave, sry to break it to there are countries which are ravaged by war and other conflicts. I left it out since I mentioned it 20 times. I hope you get into a situation where oyu experience the same as many of those refugees maybe yopur attitude will change then.

Well, ain't that nice of you. Wishing me ill-fortune just because I disagree with you, and showed you the emptiness of your argument. Twice now...wanna go for a third time? I don't get enough hate-speech thrown at me much anymore. By the way, I would never wish for you to experience that sort of thing, as I'm obviously, from your posts proving it, a better person than you.

Wow about 100 pounds a week, o I am seriously jealoues, they never will have to work then they might be the riches people on earth. As education is concerend it should be free for anyone anyway it is not the refugees fault that you chose such a crappy government and crappy social system.

Geez. You want them to have MORE free handouts? Hell, why not just set them up with a 6 figure salary per year? Are you offering to pay these additional expenses? Or is it just more bluster from you?

[Thorvir]

you are a liar for calling me a liar where did you read UN camp ??? iHH not UN you talk like a little boy to me i dont know what part of the world you come from but we dont take pictures . its you that lies . Bully gang ... even if i showed you some pictures next thing would be that they are fake ... so grow up

And more anger from you. Lose an argument with some dignity, please. And regardless of whether or not your claims are real or not, they're still completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. I did ask you specific questions about it, and please, feel free to respond or not. But, regardless of your answers, they have no bearing on Hungary's position. You're just hiding behind them to make this as personal as you can, and to justify your argument. Look up the term "red herring", please.

[141]

I just think your a liar. - its Human nature for anyone to take pictures of their time working at a humanitarian refugee camp. Not asking for pictures of misery. It was you who said you had worked at a UN refugee camp. and at no time whatsoever you didn't take memento. very strange.

i always wondered why so many british women flog to my country to take them a arab man ... i think i begin to understand why ..mmmhhhh

[Thorvir]

i always wondered why so many british women flog to my country to take them a arab man ... i think i begin to understand why ..mmmhhhh

There we are...that's two posters you've challenged their manhood over, merely because they disagree with you. Once again, how very "muslim" of you.

This is getting good. Always nice to see one side self-destruct after being show how untenable their positions are.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[141]

And more anger from you. Lose an argument with some dignity, please. And regardless of whether or not your claims are real or not, they're still completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. I did ask you specific questions about it, and please, feel free to respond or not. But, regardless of your answers, they have no bearing on Hungary's position. You're just hiding behind them to make this as personal as you can, and to justify your argument. Look up the term "red herring", please.

i am not angry and i did not lose an argument matter fact we had a good argument and proved that a good and rational women power was at work here while the men are at fear of would have should have could have . To claim i am a liar is outrages and very immature . i see whats going on here and i see a bunch of uneducated people that just read posts on the internet without knowing anything with such ignorant hateful people its just a waste of time ... pleasure communicating with you Hrothgaard the great

Edited September 18, 2015 by YA AMAR

[141]

There we are...that's two posters you've challenged their manhood over, merely because they disagree with you. Once again, how very "muslim" of you.

This is getting good. Always nice to see one side self-destruct after being show how untenable their positions are.

its not a matter of a disagreement i can deal with that but dont challenge my intelligence i know whats at play here but people are afraid to say the obvious

[Helen of Annoy]

people act very different when in crowds, homogenous groupis a crowd, that is a fact, what you see on the streets of france is a fact too. has nothing to do with race or religion.

i do realise 10 or even 20% may not act as the rest, but so what? just look at socker fans, prbly nice guys when by themselves, when together, they destroy sht. people do act different when not alone, and that is also proven fact.

but do not take my word for it, lets see what happens during next week or so. let reality show who is right.

I can tell you right now that you are right - there will be fights and all kinds of 'I told you so' situations. No one said it's easy. But we can't do only easy things in life.

People are people, yes, exactly, acting like people, which is not always a good thing, and migrants are people too, that's what I'm telling you (and the rest of phobic crowd). There are many *******s among them, of course, still, can you let them drown or starve? Most of you left an ******* impression but I don't think you should be drowned. Kicked in the ass, maybe, in friendly fashion, but not drowned.

I won't burden my conscience with them just so that you can feel more special. (Not more secure, the terrorists are travelling first class.)

[Deleted]

Well, ain't that nice of you. Wishing me ill-fortune just because I disagree with you, and showed you the emptiness of your argument. Twice now...wanna go for a third time? I don't get enough hate-speech thrown at me much anymore. By the way, I would never wish for you to experience that sort of thing, as I'm obviously, from your posts proving it, a better person than you.

Geez. You want them to have MORE free handouts? Hell, why not just set them up with a 6 figure salary per year? Are you offering to pay these additional expenses? Or is it just more bluster from you?

Congrats you did succesfully send hollow good-wishes towards me to prove your moral superiority. You want to apear good while you dont understand what war means or at least you cant imagine the situation in a wartorn country, what sort of pain and powerlesness the people there feel, otherwise your whole attitude towards refugees would be different. Also dont give me those hollow phrases like "I wish you the best and I am a good model citizen blabla even though I have absolutly no deeper understanding of other peoples` misfortune and lifes".

I dont need to prove I am good cause I actually really dont care whether I apear good or bad, but you might be right I dont think anything will change if you experience the same **** as those refugees, your opinion wont change anything so it doesnt matter whether your attitude changes or not or whether you will be in the same situation as them it absolutly wont change a thing, so my wish was propapbly misplaced.

[141]

I can tell you right now that you are right - there will be fights and all kinds of 'I told you so' situations. No one said it's easy. But we can't do only easy things in life.

People are people, yes, exactly, acting like people, which is not always a good thing, and migrants are people too, that's what I'm telling you (and the rest of phobic crowd). There are many *******s among them, of course, still, can you let them drown or starve? Most of you left an ******* impression but I don't think you should be drowned. Kicked in the ass, maybe, in friendly fashion, but not drowned.

I won't burden my conscience with them just so that you can feel more special. (Not more secure, the terrorists are travelling first class.)

fully agree with that ...

[Helen of Annoy]

There we are...that's two posters you've challenged their manhood over, merely because they disagree with you. Once again, how very "muslim" of you.

This is getting good. Always nice to see one side self-destruct after being show how untenable their positions are.

Well, to be honest, I too expect some more confidence from real men.

(Raised Catholic. Old Slavic faith inclined. Still mostly agnostic with epiphany episodes.)

[141]

Congrats you did succesfully send hollow good-wishes towards me to prove your moral superiority. You want to apear good while you dont understand what war means or at least you cant imagine the situation in a wartorn country, what sort of pain and powerlesness the people there feel, otherwise your whole attitude towards refugees would be different. Also dont give me those hollow phrases like "I wish you the best and I am a good model citizen blabla even though I have absolutly no deeper understanding of other peoples` misfortune and lifes".

I dont need to prove I am good cause I actually really dont care whether I apear good or bad, but you might be right I dont think anything will change if you experience the same **** as those refugees, your opinion wont change anything so it doesnt matter whether your attitude changes or not or whether you will be in the same situation as them it absolutly wont change a thing, so my wish was propapbly misplaced.

great post for a misguided inhumane person

[Thorvir]

Congrats you did succesfully send hollow good-wishes towards me to prove your moral superiority.

Yeah, you'll have to prove that they were hollow good-wishes. Your track record in this thread with claims isn't doing so well.

You want to apear good while you dont understand what war means or at least you cant imagine the situation in a wartorn country, what sort of pain and powerlesness the people there feel, otherwise your whole attitude towards refugees would be different. Also dont give me those hollow phrases like "I wish you the best and I am a good model citizen blabla even though I have absolutly no deeper understanding of other peoples` misfortune and lifes".

Again, some proof is needed. And, once again, this subject isn't about me. Hungary has the right to do what it's doing. You do not have the right to force anyone to do what they don't want to do. Can't get any more black and white than that.

I dont need to prove I am good cause I actually really dont care whether I apear good or bad...

And yet, you continuously announce how a good person you are by helping out people in the past and how everyone else should do it regardless of the consequences. That's a bit of hypocrisy, don't you think? By the way, how many of these refugees are you granting shelter to at this time?

...but you might be right I dont think anything will change if you experience the same **** as those refugees, your opinion wont change anything so it doesnt matter whether your attitude changes or not or whether you will be in the same situation as them it absolutly wont change a thing, so my wish was propapbly misplaced.

But, you're still standing by your hatefulness that I should experience bad things? Or is this your way of backpedaling because you know you crossed the line again? Either way, it doesn't change the fact that you're being morally dishonest about this whole subject matter.

So, let's make it simple and get back to the topic. Should Hungary be forced to allow this horde of migrants into their lands?

[Thorvir]

Well, to be honest, I too expect some more confidence from real men.

(Raised Catholic. Old Slavic faith inclined. Still mostly agnostic with epiphany episodes.)

I don't see a lack of confidence here with the men in this thread. Just a lack of confidence in you and the other's arguments. Hence the use of these "grow a pair" types of statements. A classic example of tactics used when an argument goes sour. Almost textbook, if I may add.

But, don't worry, I'm actually laughing at you and the others right now because of it. This argument has been settled several pages ago, and Hungary's right...anyone's rights, should be observed. Now, your side of the argument (and not you, specifically) can claim whatever supposed superiority you want to, can challenge the manhood of those that disagree with you, can wish harmful things to those that disagree with you, and can make up claims without backing them up all you want to. Thing is, none of that effort changes the fact that your argument is empty.

So, again, let's make this as simple as is needs to be. Should Hungary be forced to allow this horde of migrants into their lands?

[Helen of Annoy]

So, let's make it simple and get back to the topic. Should Hungary be forced to allow this horde of migrants into their lands?

No one should be forced to do anything.

Everyone should engage common sense and find the best solutions.

So, what do you suggest? What to do with tens of thousands of people already let through Greece further into Europe?

[Thorvir]

No one should be forced to do anything.

Everyone should engage common sense and find the best solutions.

Good. Finally some common sense. Thank you for the response.

So, what do you suggest? What to do with tens of thousands of people already let through Greece further into Europe?

My suggestions aren't important because, at least now, the subject of this thread is Hungary and not actually the overall problem, and Hungary should not be forced to do anything against it's wishes. That's all there is too it.

For a further fix to this problem, I can't answer that and no one actually can, as there isn't an easy answer at this time, but forcing these migrants on anyone unwilling to take them is morally wrong.

But:

1) Merkel should have never opened her mouth about this in the first place--she made a horrendous mistake and now it's costing Europe as a whole. So I do actually place blame on her for at least this migration crisis. But it's done, and can't be undone now. She's made a mess of it and should do her utmost to undo it.

2) As for the migrants already in Europe, if they find people that will house them, fine, let it be so. If not, the ones that cannot find housing should return to their point of origin. This is a problem they needed to face there, and not run from it. Turn around and help solve it instead of placing it in someone else's lap. Two wrongs will not make a right.

Those migrants that cause trouble should definitely be sent back.

Regardless of the outcome, and I admit I don't know what to do about it now, Hungary or any other country should not have these migrant forced upon them.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[141]

A classic example of tactics used when an argument goes sour. Almost textbook, if I may add.

But, don't worry, I'm actually laughing at you and the others right now because of it. This argument has been settled several pages ago, and Hungary's right...anyone's rights, should be observed. Now, your side of the argument (and not you, specifically) can claim whatever supposed superiority you want to, can challenge the manhood of those that disagree with you, can wish harmful things to those that disagree with you, and can make up claims without backing them up all you want to. Thing is, none of that effort changes the fact that your argument is empty.

So, again, let's make this as simple as is needs to be. Should Hungary be forced to allow this horde of migrants into their lands?

[Helen of Annoy]

Good. Finally some common sense. Thank you for the response.

You're welcome

My suggestions aren't important because, at least now, the subject of this thread is Hungary and not actually the overall problem, and Hungary should not be forced to do anything against it's wishes. That's all there is too it.

Amen, but Hungary also can’t force others to do against their wishes. Compromise, I believe, is yet again the general direction we all should go.

For a further fix to this problem, I can't answer that and no one actually can, as there isn't an easy answer at this time, but forcing these migrants on anyone unwilling to take them is morally wrong.

So is letting them starve or freeze (it’s still hot as hell but frost will come soon).

But:

1) Merkel should have never opened her mouth about this in the first place--she made a horrendous mistake and now it's costing Europe as a whole. So I do actually place blame on her for at least this migration crisis. But it's done, and can't be undone now. She's made a mess of it and should do her utmost to undo it.

Merkel had no choice. See above why.

Actual cooperation within EU would prevent the extent of this crisis. Not the crisis itself, no. Also, no invitation would not prevent this crisis. These people started travelling before any invitation. Who let them through Turkey and Greece is to be blamed if we’re blaming, which is a waste of time.

2) As for the migrants already in Europe, if they find people that will house them, fine, let it be so. If not, the ones that cannot find housing should return to their point of origin. This is a problem they needed to face there, and not run from it. Turn around and help solve it instead of placing it in someone else's lap. Two wrongs will not make a right.

No individual housing. It’s inefficient mess. Politicians making spectacle with housing refugees should be made to swap houses with them permanently. While arguing who won’t do what, we could have had remodeled and rented places.

Those migrants that cause trouble should definitely be sent back.

Amen again.

Regardless of the outcome, and I admit I don't know what to do about it now, Hungary or any other country should not have these migrant forced upon them.

And again. But migrants shouldn’t have been forced into extreme poverty either.

We kept believing it’s not our problem and turns out it is.

[Thorvir]

Amen, but Hungary also can’t force others to do against their wishes. Compromise, I believe, is yet again the general direction we all should go.

What forcing is Hungary doing? By making them wait patiently at the border? Sorry, that doesn't fly here.

So is letting them starve or freeze (it’s still hot as hell but frost will come soon).

They can always go back.

Merkel had no choice. See above why.

I disagree. She could have kept her mouth closed.

Actual cooperation within EU would prevent the extent of this crisis. Not the crisis itself, no. Also, no invitation would not prevent this crisis. These people started travelling before any invitation. Who let them through Turkey and Greece is to be blamed if we’re blaming, which is a waste of time.

Cooperation would be great between the EU countries. But that doesn't mean violating Hungary's borders. And as for migrating before Merkel opened her mouth...there didn't seem to be much of a problem beforehand--there are "refugees" from all over the world. Why are these specifically more important than others? And, yes, so be it, Turkey and Greece should share some blame as well. Regardless, though, any other country that doesn't want them shouldn't have to take them, any other country that doesn't want them to pass through their country shouldn't be forced to do so. If Germany wants them, then they should start a new "Berlin Airlift" and be done with it.

No individual housing. It’s inefficient mess. Politicians making spectacle with housing refugees should be made to swap houses with them permanently. While arguing who won’t do what, we could have had remodeled and rented places.

That I completely agree with. But when I type "housing" I meant as a country finding suitable places for these migrants.

And again. But migrants shouldn’t have been forced into extreme poverty either.

We kept believing it’s not our problem and turns out it is.

Those migrants weren't forced to live in poverty. If conditions are so bad in their homes, then they should fix them. The sick and wounded and young and helpless should be the first ones out of the area seeking better places. The healthy men should be finding a solution to the problem instead of seeking free handouts.

And, I disagree, their problems aren't our problems unless we decide that they are. They're problems shouldn't have been forced on us in the first place.

And finally, any of these migrants that are lucky enough to find a host country to feed and shelter them should be very grateful and humble for this chance. If they cause trouble, they should immediately and instantly be taken back to their place of origin, or at least face the same penalties as anyone else. Their status as refugees shouldn't give them any more benefits than the actual citizens of the countries they're mooching off of.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[Thorvir]

Thanks, Helen and aztek and stevewinn and kartikg and Dark_Grey and others for keeping a bit of open-mindedness, honesty, maturity and professionalism in this thread and countering the ignorance and hate from the others. I'm on weekend mode now, and I think the point has been made well enough several times that it will hold for a while.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[Helen of Annoy]

What forcing is Hungary doing? By making them wait patiently at the border? Sorry, that doesn't fly here.

It doesn't have to fly there at your place.

But since you're so interested in European matters, let me clear it again:

In the context of Hungary being EU member. Not forcing the migrants. It's not Hungary's fault they want to get in, without proper documents etc.

What Hungary shouldn't even attempt doing, and they're doing it, is forcing their chauvinist ego tripping above common European interest, including their own, in the long run. This number of migrants won't bring us down, acting autistic will.

They can always go back.

Not really. Some of actual Syrians who still have some savings or identifications left maybe even can, but there are completely broke and 'paperless' Afghans, for example.

I disagree. She could have kept her mouth closed.

So could have you, but here you are, annoying me with your excessive fear of impending doom. I'll repeat one more time, those who don't believe me are most welcome to check it: migrants migrate for years already. This wave is large, but not the first, and probably not the last. It wasn't triggered by Merkel saying what any actual person would say, it's just natural consequence of decades of catastrophic ME and African politics.

Cooperation would be great between the EU countries. But that doesn't mean violating Hungary's borders. And as for migrating before Merkel opened her mouth...there didn't seem to be much of a problem beforehand--there are "refugees" from all over the world. Why are these specifically more important than others? And, yes, so be it, Turkey and Greece should share some blame as well. Regardless, though, any other country that doesn't want them shouldn't have to take them, any other country that doesn't want them to pass through their country shouldn't be forced to do so. If Germany wants them, then they should start a new "Berlin Airlift" and be done with it.

You're most welcome to keep mentioning Merkel's mouth so at least I can rest assure you're not gay?

No, there are no more or less important migrants, these are just suddenly more popular than those who were migrating before.

Airlift is great idea. You should take most of them, since their fate is consequence of your politics mostly and most of the profit ends up in the pockets of your infamous 1%.

That I completely agree with. But when I type "housing" I meant as a country finding suitable places for these migrants.

That is not really a problem. Especially not in transit-only lands, such as... I'll be damned, look, Hungary! What a surprise.

Instead of that ridiculous wall, they could have organized shelters, but that doesn't feel domineering at all.

Those migrants weren't forced to live in poverty. If conditions are so bad in their homes, then they should fix them. The sick and wounded and young and helpless should be the first ones out of the area seeking better places. The healthy men should be finding a solution to the problem instead of seeking free handouts.

The weak can't take this journey. The healthy are trying to find solution. You don't like it, but they don't have better options. You may believe that's because you're better than them, but I believe it's only because you had better luck at birth.

And, I disagree, their problems aren't our problems unless we decide that they are. They're problems shouldn't have been forced on us in the first place.

But they were forced upon us, mostly by you. Your politics is hilariously destructive lately. And your allies in ME are even worse.

On top of it, you have to bemoan your troubles with migrants in Europe... almost unbelievable.

And finally, any of these migrants that are lucky enough to find a host country to feed and shelter them should be very grateful and humble for this chance. If they cause trouble, they should immediately and instantly be taken back to their place of origin, or at least face the same penalties as anyone else. Their status as refugees shouldn't give them any more benefits than the actual citizens of the countries they're mooching off of.

Absolutely, yes.

edit: sorry, I didn't see your other post until now. You're most welcome.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[meryt-tetisheri]

You have to be kidding by saying "train and arm them", because whats to then stop them from turning against you.

The US is already using training bases in Turkey and Jordan

[meryt-tetisheri]

The discussion here has become quite heated!!! From where I'm standing - between reading what is being said in Europe, and what is being said in the Middle East- I see some really extreme positions. For example, some Islamists in ME are starting to push in the social media the view that the refugee crisis is an 'evil conspiracy by the West, seeking cheap labor, and to empty Syria of its population'. At the same time Salafis are busy trying to attract refugees to their mosques http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/17/us-europe-migrants-germany-salfists-idUSKCN0RH2VM20150917. Over here, the discussion seems to be veering towards who is humane and who is not!

I think there are few points which should also be considered, because they affect the long term outcome of the Syrian debacle. A potential negative outcome of the continuous displacement of such a large percentage of the Syrian population could be the creation of another version of the Palestinian problem.That will not be any good either for Syria or Europe.. It will also make efforts to rebuild Syria even more difficult. A large percentage of ISIS fighters are foreign, from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Chechnya...even Europe. This can qualify as an invasion. I understand offering refuge to the children, elderly, the sick etc; but for the 70% young men ( http://data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/regional.php) don't just give them fish, teach them how to fish. It is their DUTY to fight for their country and its future. The source of problem has to dealt with, anything else, humane or not, is short-term thinking about the whole issue.

If you have time, watch this video about the young female fighters entitled 'Her War: Women Against ISIS'

As for Europe, unless a similar intensive effort is directed towards helping the integration, and adaptation, of the refugees as that of housing them, some serious problems could arise in the future, if the trend of the recent elections is any indication.

[Thorvir]

Ok, I crept back in and notice this bull**** from you, so here's my response. Please read carefully and do not misconstrue the anger you've generated out of me.

It doesn't have to fly there at your place.

But since you're so interested in European matters, let me clear it again:

In the context of Hungary being EU member. Not forcing the migrants. It's not Hungary's fault they want to get in, without proper documents etc.

What Hungary shouldn't even attempt doing, and they're doing it, is forcing their chauvinist ego tripping above common European interest, including their own, in the long run. This number of migrants won't bring us down, acting autistic will.

What Hungary is doing is protecting it's national interests. If you're not smart enough to understand that, effing educate yourself.

Not really. Some of actual Syrians who still have some savings or identifications left maybe even can, but there are completely broke and 'paperless' Afghans, for example.

Cry me an effing river. They brought this on themselves. And no nation has to take them in.

So could have you, but here you are, annoying me with your excessive fear of impending doom. I'll repeat one more time, those who don't believe me are most welcome to check it: migrants migrate for years already. This wave is large, but not the first, and probably not the last. It wasn't triggered by Merkel saying what any actual person would say, it's just natural consequence of decades of catastrophic ME and African politics.

Except my words didn't start a crisis in Europe. Hers did. And it is completely irrelevant that migrations have happened in the past. Merkel's actions have caused this current crisis. She's a blowhard leftist idiot that is riddled with anti-Western guilt and cares for nothing except her own image.

You're most welcome to keep mentioning Merkel's mouth so at least I can rest assure you're not gay?

What does that supposed to mean? You are as intellectually dishonest as the others, reverting to calling me gay because my opinions don't match yours. Care to prove that I'm gay? Or, are, like the others, just another liar?

No, there are no more or less important migrants, these are just suddenly more popular than those who were migrating before.

Airlift is great idea. You should take most of them, since their fate is consequence of your politics mostly and most of the profit ends up in the pockets of your infamous 1%.

Glad you think it's a good idea. Because it is. Haven't heard one spew from your side of this yet. And what's this shot about "infamous 1%"? Smells like yet another red herring. Stick to the subject matter and stop wasting time and embarrassing yourself.

That is not really a problem. Especially not in transit-only lands, such as... I'll be damned, look, Hungary! What a surprise.

Instead of that ridiculous wall, they could have organized shelters, but that doesn't feel domineering at all.

And your hypocrisy knows no bounds. So, now Hungary should have allowed the migrants in. Make up your mind, you claimed that shouldn't be forced to accept the migrants. Were you lying then or are you lying now?

The weak can't take this journey. The healthy are trying to find solution. You don't like it, but they don't have better options. You may believe that's because you're better than them, but I believe it's only because you had better luck at birth.

Running from the problem for free hand outs in better countries isn't "finding a solution". Leaving their weak and helpless behind is cowardly.

And, once again, you know nothing of my birth. So stop pretending with this supposed superiority you are waving around.

But they were forced upon us, mostly by you. Your politics is hilariously destructive lately. And your allies in ME are even worse.

On top of it, you have to bemoan your troubles with migrants in Europe... almost unbelievable.

Mostly by me? As if I, personally, have had any decision-making powers. Why don't you prove that I caused these things. Why don't you prove that my politics are destructive lately? Or, once again, do you just enjoy lying?

Oh, my allies in the ME? Who would those be? Is this just another red herring, to try to change the subject because you're ill-equipped to argue this anymore and have run out of ways to defend your demented position on it?

edit: sorry, I didn't see your other post until now. You're most welcome.

Too late, you screwed the pooch on being civil, and specifically waited until I was gone to slap your pathetic ad hominens around. Pretty lazy and underhanded of you, but it does not surprise me one bit now. Of the ones that are morally empty on this subject, I had thought you were at least open-minded and trying to use common sense. But, nope, you're just as ignorant and arrogant and hypocritical and dishonest and uniformed as the others, just as filled with hate and loathing and completely lacking in any sort of critical thinking skills. Don't expect me to take you seriously anymore, don't expect me to care about your opinion. Tried that, didn't work. You weren't interested in an honest discussion so from this point forward you're not getting one from me.

You and the others don't like what I and others have to say, but face it, it's reality, and you're in utter denial and utterly wrong on this.

[Thorvir]

The discussion here has become quite heated!!! From where I'm standing - between reading what is being said in Europe, and what is being said in the Middle East- I see some really extreme positions. For example, some Islamists in ME are starting to push in the social media the view that the refugee crisis is an 'evil conspiracy by the West, seeking cheap labor, and to empty Syria of its population'. At the same time Salafis are busy trying to attract refugees to their mosques http://www.reuters.c...N0RH2VM20150917. Over here, the discussion seems to be veering towards who is humane and who is not!

The mods'll probably come in here and delete a lot of the posts. Shame, because some posts display the glaring character flaws of the ones on the wrong side of the issue, and reading them lets others be prepared for them in other threads.

Islamists will always blame the West, it's in their nature. The original discussion before it turned was about the refugees starting a hunger strike, but then everyone got to see the other side of the story and we come to find out that these "refugees" are just violent migrants, for the most part, seeking and easier life at someone else's expense. Then it shifted to countries (specifically Hungary) being allowed to make their own national decisions, and that really p***ed off a few of the other posters, and they decided to start attacking everyone else that had a different opinion. My patience finally waned with them, but it is late and I'm very tired at the moment.

It's still a good discussion, if you just weed out the virulent, anti-Western crap.

I think there are few points which should also be considered, because they affect the long term outcome of the Syrian debacle. A potential negative outcome of the continuous displacement of such a large percentage of the Syrian population could be the creation of another version of the Palestinian problem.That will not be any good either for Syria or Europe.. It will also make efforts to rebuild Syria even more difficult. A large percentage of ISIS fighters are foreign, from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Chechnya...even Europe. This can qualify as an invasion. I understand offering refuge to the children, elderly, the sick etc; but for the 70% young men ( http://data.unhcr.or...an/regional.php) don't just give them fish, teach them how to fish. It is their DUTY to fight for their country and its future. The source of problem has to dealt with, anything else, humane or not, is short-term thinking about the whole issue.

If you have time, watch this video about the young female fighters entitled 'Her War: Women Against ISIS'

You are right in your assessment. As I and others mentioned, these aren't real "refugees", they're cowards seeking the easy life, leaving the sick and helpless and young behind. Some are most likely islamist terrorists, using this opportunity to get into target countries. Others might actually be genuine refugees that could use the help, but the rest are ruining it for them.

As for Europe, unless a similar intensive effort is directed towards helping the integration, and adaptation, of the refugees as that of housing them, some serious problems could arise in the future, if the trend of the recent elections is any indication.

Again, you are correct. But some, like Merkel, aren't interested in preserving their national identify, and will go to great lengths to make sure these migrants are treated far more fairly than some might deserve, even at the expense of the German people. They'll make sure they don't have to integrate and adapt. She and her apologists are only interested in self-image, and are still ridden with WWII era guilt for their country's deeds. She's also a far-left progressive, or at least pretending to be one. They aren't known as being stable politically. If something isn't done, the potential is there to ruin Europe. I don't want to see that happen. Europe is the old country and I'm very fond of it.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard