Refugees Begin Hunger Strike

[stevewinn]

I know what you mean Amar. BUT. It is ultimately the mans fault in this case for accepting the money and having a relationship outside his marriage. Things like that happen all the time. Poles, Croats, Bosnians...some of them had arranged marriages to German men or women to get papers. In the process of searching for a better life this way many lifes were destroyed. Both sides are to blame not only one.

How the hell have we gone from Refugees on the Hungarian border to illicit sexual relations? I bet its YA AMAR going off on one of her tangents AGAIN!!!

Back on topic, Austria is expected to accept 80,000+ Illegal migrants this week alone. - If you watch the news 7,000 to 10,000 illegal migrants are still crossing from Turkey to the Greek Islands of Kos & Lesbos. With no sign of the numbers trying to get to Europe decreasing, in fact increasing. How far is this going to push Europe and the European Union.

A YouGov poll 75% of British people want to take less than 20,000 Migrants. As the news breaks that as Country we've taken 630,000 immigrants in the last 12 months. and a total of 8 Million over the last ten years. that is the equivalent of the population of London, and the we are continuing to admit a population size the size of Birmingham City every single year.

When you go to work today people make sure you put your name down for the over time because the Government is going to need more money. Watch out for the warning signs NHS in Crisis needing billions, Schools and housing crisis. coming to a town City near you.

With political thinking like this, God Help Us All.

Rachael Maskell: "20 thousand isn't enough, 30 thousand isn't enough - We must keep going until we really are at saturation point" "What does it matter if we have to wait another week for a hospital visit?" " Or if our class sizes are slightly bigger, or our City is slightly fuller, What does it matter if things are more challenging if we have to pay a little bit more into the system"

She's obviously talking to seals with all that clapping going on.

[141]

How the hell have we gone from Refugees on the Hungarian border to illicit sexual relations? I bet its YA AMAR going off on one of her tangents AGAIN!!!

Back on topic, Austria is expected to accept 80,000+ Illegal migrants this week alone. - If you watch the news 7,000 to 10,000 illegal migrants are still crossing from Turkey to the Greek Islands of Kos & Lesbos. With no sign of the numbers trying to get to Europe decreasing, in fact increasing. How far is this going to push Europe and the European Union.

A YouGov poll 75% of British people want to take less than 20,000 Migrants. As the news breaks that as Country we've taken 630,000 immigrants in the last 12 months. and a total of 8 Million over the last ten years. that is the equivalent of the population of London, and the we are continuing to admit a population size the size of Birmingham City every single year.

When you go to work today people make sure you put your name down for the over time because the Government is going to need more money. Watch out for the warning signs NHS in Crisis needing billions, Schools and housing crisis. coming to a town City near you.

With political thinking like this, God Help Us All.

Rachael Maskell: "20 thousand isn't enough, 30 thousand isn't enough - We must keep going until we really are at saturation point" "What does it matter if we have to wait another week for a hospital visit?" " Or if our class sizes are slightly bigger, or our City is slightly fuller, What does it matter if things are more challenging if we have to pay a little bit more into the system"

She's obviously talking to seals with all that clapping going on.

stevo you sooooooooooooo missed the point - as usual

[141]

How the hell have we gone from Refugees on the Hungarian border to illicit sexual relations? I bet its YA AMAR going off on one of her tangents AGAIN!!!

Back on topic, Austria is expected to accept 80,000+ Illegal migrants this week alone. - If you watch the news 7,000 to 10,000 illegal migrants are still crossing from Turkey to the Greek Islands of Kos & Lesbos. With no sign of the numbers trying to get to Europe decreasing, in fact increasing. How far is this going to push Europe and the European Union.

A YouGov poll 75% of British people want to take less than 20,000 Migrants. As the news breaks that as Country we've taken 630,000 immigrants in the last 12 months. and a total of 8 Million over the last ten years. that is the equivalent of the population of London, and the we are continuing to admit a population size the size of Birmingham City every single year.

When you go to work today people make sure you put your name down for the over time because the Government is going to need more money. Watch out for the warning signs NHS in Crisis needing billions, Schools and housing crisis. coming to a town City near you.

With political thinking like this, God Help Us All.

Rachael Maskell: "20 thousand isn't enough, 30 thousand isn't enough - We must keep going until we really are at saturation point" "What does it matter if we have to wait another week for a hospital visit?" " Or if our class sizes are slightly bigger, or our City is slightly fuller, What does it matter if things are more challenging if we have to pay a little bit more into the system"

She's obviously talking to seals with all that clapping going on.

yeah , and i was clapping the loudest ....great and brave women is she ...at least someone with a warm heart ...thanx for sharing

[141]

I know I only got the sharp edges.

[Thorvir]

@Hrothgaard the great ... look, people were nice with you . we all communicated but imho you started to become a little over the top . we are debating the issue of helping people in need . if you ever really read some posts some of you try to discredit other peoples stories ,calling them liars wanting proof how they help people . we are grown people at least i hope so as i dont know the age of some people . i can only assume, according to the writing style ( and i assume) that you and Astra- ( and someone else wink ) are probably very young . the debate should have been about those people being in need and how to help or offering help . it turned sour for me when people judge other people by their appearance or status or when people place themselves of other human beings . Threads are being open with different names but same story how to bring down islam and its muslims ... they accuse of others being radical but many posts here are radical themselves . in one thread you even talked about yeah let wage war . accuse others but ya'll do the same thing . i am moroccan makes me arab by law by origin i decent from berbers and i am muslim . so , you talk about isis and what they do but quite frankly i would fear for my life if i was ever standing next to you ( or someone else wink ), you know - being an arab and muslim . me and a few others did believe that you had some valid points and we tried on numerous occasions and again we all believe what we want to believe or we all do what we think is right . but to decide over other peoples fate or act superior over those who desperately need help its just simply not right in my view . no body ever denied the fact that whats happening right now and that this situation got out of hand and that it is very overwhelming for so many countries . but you know , as it has shown that there are some countries that go out of their way despite the fact that they dont have much themselves proofed to be so much compassionate and Helen of Annoy gave a good description of that . And we know what had happened in croatia and they know suffering . But its always like this in life those who have suffered know what it feels like . And those who have a comfortable live are scared to share a bit . When a poor man looses his only one dollar he will go hungry , when rich people loose 1 million they become outraged . on top of it all we all recognize that with all those people coming in there is a great risk no doubt about it but lets be honest here for one second . if someone wants to come to your country and do bad things they can !!!!!!!!!!

"@Hrothgaard the great ... "

You start a post with that, and you expect people to treat you seriously? Your arrogant sarcasm and hypocrisy know no bounds, do they? I've put you on ignore so I don't have to read your posts anymore, but did you one last favor here as I specifically asked for a backstory that you keep claiming to have.

Don't forget when you and the other two questioned the manhood of the rest of us that were disagreeing with you. Class act, that one. I have been, and always will be in favor of helping people in need (regardless of the claims of the opposite, and those are claims that can't be backed up). But I'm also for allowing people, and any nation, to choose whether they want to or not. Hungary (remember them?) made a good choice not to allow migrants in, and to control the flow of them through their country. Others here thought that was some sort of great evil and posting in hatred and anger about it. It's Hungary's choice, it always has been, and the people wanting to deny them that choice are among the worst kind of people.

But I get it, you don't like people disagreeing with you. I don't like hypocrisy. The two of us aren't going to mix well because of that.

As for my private live ... my Book was already judged to be fiction , i was called a liar without you/and /or knowing me . so you think i will tell my story here for people to rain down their smug little comments ??? nahhhh..... some people went through so horrible things and i already see how the issue is handled on these migrants, if i told my story it would be the same thing . People are so suspicious and call other people liar asking for proof and pictures that is really so immature . People have or had jobs, people do things for a living whats wrong with that ? There are millions of social workers , i happened to be one, working as a civilian for the US Air Force for 15 years . There are Doctors without borders there are so many organisations you call those people liars too ? People help People !!!! it is in some peoples human nature- anyways . İf you read even a bit of my posts , due to my line of work i joined quite a few orga's one of them for Rape Victims . we help women and children or you call them a liar too and they should proof it ??? possibly with a picture ...people need help in those extreme situations there are so many things going on that the media will never or hardly even cover . And now to were i live - again if you have read , i live in tunisia and dead people wash up on shore its a fact . it hurts me deeply unlike other people that dont give one crap about other people suffering . i dont have resentment against people if they have never done me wrong i dont judge others that i dont know unless they give me reason to otherwise . What others accuse me of about being sarcastic or playing the victim - they themselves need to take a good look at themselves . statements of the world doesnt revolve around me - really i find it sad . i have a voice and i use it just as others do . i will not be silenced just because others have problems with them disagreeing . To give a little sob story ... in 2009 i was diagnosed with terminal cancer ( the tip of the ice berg with all that i have gone through lol ) and i was told to not plan life anymore just enjoy my time . well , am still alive and not once did i cry or feel like oh poor me ... no , it gave me the power to go on . And as long as i have breath in my lungs and legs that carry me and hands to help ,i will . Because i know how it feels to be at the bottom some choose to stay down but i never have . i have lived through things that some people only get to see on tv i have seen things that god forbid some people will ever see . if ignorant people call it fiction or call me a liar ??????? wellllllllllllllll... i believe in my maker and we all have to face him one day ...people always have been cruel to other people and always will be but there is just those few good ones that make life all worth while ------------- the end lol

I never called you a liar, just the possibility of being one. It wasn't an insult, merely a label as to what appeared to be happening. And you have shown resentment in this very forum, toward anyone that strongly disagrees with you. And you claimed to be in the military, was the his US Air Force work as a civilian? That's a lot different than being military.

And as for your story, regardless if it is true or not all you had to do was tell us that early on, instead of using it as some sort of step ladder to get on and off of your high horse. And, again regardless if it is true or not, and I'm going to assume it is unless conflicting material is posted at some other time, it still doesn't make your stance on these refugees any less wrong and it still doesn't mean every country (specifically in this thread, Hungary...remember the subject matter?) should fling open it's borders and let these migrants in, committing national and cultural suicide in the process.

I'm 44, I live in Indiana (that's in the United States for those who were wondering), I'm a mix of Native American and a strange conglomeration of French and English (and Irish I think)--and damned proud of it. I've been married three times, I love cats, I love dogs, I love cars. I've busted my ass to the bone and worked hard all of my life until recently, and now I'm on permanent disability because of this ******* Meniere's Disease. I have given time, effort and money to those in need before, and might do so again in the future. but now I'm one of those people that are being "helped" and I utterly hate it to my core. I'd much prefer to do things on my own, but I can't--hell I'm not even supposed to drive a car anymore. And regardless of how much I despise that fact, I'm one of those that requires it. I don't play the victim card, I merely just exist and try to accept the way things are now.

Nearly all of those migrants don't require help, they're cowards that are seeking the easy life, and should be considered invaders and hostile to the countries they're trying to migrate too. But thanks to "useful idiots" such as Merkel, Kerry, others as well as some posters here, they see their chance at a land grab and they should be stopped and stopped with finality. These cowards should have stayed and tried to fix things. They'll attempt to sweep aside the culture they're invading, attempt to make it theirs, and there are people there that will make the migrants job so much easier. That sickens me. Anyone that condones or gleefully denies such actions are just as disgusting to me. I don't deal with apologists and hypocrites, I confront them when I am able to.

It's happening in Europe, the home of half of my ancestors, so this subject is very important to me.

So, you see, anyone can come up with a "sob" story to garner sympathy for their argument. Is mine true? Absolutely. Is it important to the discussion? Not at all. That doesn't change the person's message, doesn't make it any different. I could be a lazy millionaire, the supposed "1%" or "2%" or whatever that liberals jealously whine about and wishing harm on them, and my message would still be the same. See, no one is more special than anyone else, aside from those monsters that deserve scorn and suffering, and as for me, the only difference is that I have an opinion, a strong one and it's backed up by history, facts and common sense.

So you and I just aren't going to mix well here, as with those other two involved in this fight.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[bee]

How the hell have we gone from Refugees on the Hungarian border to illicit sexual relations? I bet its YA AMAR going off on one of her tangents AGAIN!!!

Back on topic, Austria is expected to accept 80,000+ Illegal migrants this week alone. - If you watch the news 7,000 to 10,000 illegal migrants are still crossing from Turkey to the Greek Islands of Kos & Lesbos. With no sign of the numbers trying to get to Europe decreasing, in fact increasing. How far is this going to push Europe and the European Union.

A YouGov poll 75% of British people want to take less than 20,000 Migrants. As the news breaks that as Country we've taken 630,000 immigrants in the last 12 months. and a total of 8 Million over the last ten years. that is the equivalent of the population of London, and the we are continuing to admit a population size the size of Birmingham City every single year.

When you go to work today people make sure you put your name down for the over time because the Government is going to need more money. Watch out for the warning signs NHS in Crisis needing billions, Schools and housing crisis. coming to a town City near you.

With political thinking like this, God Help Us All.

Rachael Maskell: "20 thousand isn't enough, 30 thousand isn't enough - We must keep going until we really are at saturation point" "What does it matter if we have to wait another week for a hospital visit?" " Or if our class sizes are slightly bigger, or our City is slightly fuller, What does it matter if things are more challenging if we have to pay a little bit more into the system"

She's obviously talking to seals with all that clapping going on.

[video snipped but can be seen in previous posts]

Another way of saying the quote above...

"What does it matter if we are poorer, that sick people living here have to suffer because our services are stretched beyond the limit,

or our children are less well educated or people can't find places to live..."

I don't think Maskell has the best interests of her constituents or her country at heart....

She's getting carried away and not being realistic....

A serious economic and social breakdown at local and national level is not going to help anyone....

Not the people already living here or the ones that are coming over the next 5 years...

.

.

[Michelle]

I feel the same way about this as I do about people having more kids when they can't afford to feed and clothe the ones they have. I don't care what your heart tells you common sense needs to kick in somewhere.

[141]

"@Hrothgaard the great ... "

You start a post with that, and you expect people to treat you seriously? Your arrogant sarcasm and hypocrisy know no bounds, do they? I've put you on ignore so I don't have to read your posts anymore, but did you one last favor here as I specifically asked for a backstory that you keep claiming to have.

Don't forget when you and the other two questioned the manhood of the rest of us that were disagreeing with you. Class act, that one. I have been, and always will be in favor of helping people in need (regardless of the claims of the opposite, and those are claims that can't be backed up). But I'm also for allowing people, and any nation, to choose whether they want to or not. Hungary (remember them?) made a good choice not to allow migrants in, and to control the flow of them through their country. Others here thought that was some sort of great evil and posting in hatred and anger about it. It's Hungary's choice, it always has been, and the people wanting to deny them that choice are among the worst kind of people.

But I get it, you don't like people disagreeing with you. I don't like hypocrisy. The two of us aren't going to mix well because of that.

I never called you a liar, just the possibility of being one. It wasn't an insult, merely a label as to what appeared to be happening. And you have shown resentment in this very forum, toward anyone that strongly disagrees with you. And you claimed to be in the military, was the his US Air Force work as a civilian? That's a lot different than being military.

And as for your story, regardless if it is true or not all you had to do was tell us that early on, instead of using it as some sort of step ladder to get on and off of your high horse. And, again regardless if it is true or not, and I'm going to assume it is unless conflicting material is posted at some other time, it still doesn't make your stance on these refugees any less wrong and it still doesn't mean every country (specifically in this thread, Hungary...remember the subject matter?) should fling open it's borders and let these migrants in, committing national and cultural suicide in the process.

I'm 44, I live in Indiana (that's in the United States for those who were wondering), I'm a mix of Native American and a strange conglomeration of French and English (and Irish I think)--and damned proud of it. I've been married three times, I love cats, I love dogs, I love cars. I've busted my ass to the bone and worked hard all of my life until recently, and now I'm on permanent disability because of this ******* Meniere's Disease. I have given time, effort and money to those in need before, and might do so again in the future. but now I'm one of those people that are being "helped" and I utterly hate it to my core. I'd much prefer to do things on my own, but I can't--hell I'm not even supposed to drive a car anymore. And regardless of how much I despise that fact, I'm one of those that requires it. I don't play the victim card, I merely just exist and try to accept the way things are now.

Nearly all of those migrants don't require help, they're cowards that are seeking the easy life, and should be considered invaders and hostile to the countries they're trying to migrate too. But thanks to "useful idiots" such as Merkel, Kerry, others as well as some posters here, they see their chance at a land grab and they should be stopped and stopped with finality. These cowards should have stayed and tried to fix things. They'll attempt to sweep aside the culture they're invading, attempt to make it theirs, and there are people there that will make the migrants job so much easier. That sickens me. Anyone that condones or gleefully denies such actions are just as disgusting to me. I don't deal with apologists and hypocrites, I confront them when I am able to.

It's happening in Europe, the home of half of my ancestors, so this subject is very important to me.

So, you see, anyone can come up with a "sob" story to garner sympathy for their argument. Is mine true? Absolutely. Is it important to the discussion? Not at all. That doesn't change the person's message, doesn't make it any different. I could be a lazy millionaire, the supposed "1%" or "2%" or whatever that liberals jealously whine about and wishing harm on them, and my message would still be the same. See, no one is more special than anyone else, aside from those monsters that deserve scorn and suffering, and as for me, the only difference is that I have an opinion, a strong one and it's backed up by history, facts and common sense.

So you and I just aren't going to mix well here, as with those other two involved in this fight.

well honestly i see in other posts that you dont do to great with people in general you prove it over and over and attack anyone that just tires to challenge your views . you have a very childish behavior - you can put me on ignore , guess if i care . You are running not me and that tell me a whole lot about you . i dint come here to make friends i merely have my point of view . you have a very egotistic outlook on things . you claim your story to be true ??? well , i believe you . But you call others liars . You are mad that some people didnt look up to your claims and bow down to you thats all . as for me and you mixing ?????? uuhhhmm was this ever an issue ? you are a hard head and if you think i should denounce my faith you are wrong ...you believe what you want to but i have mine and i stick to it regardless what people say or claim ...c ya wouldn't wanna be ya

Edited September 21, 2015 by YA AMAR

[141]

well honestly i see in other posts that you dont do to great with people in general you prove it over and over and attack anyone that just tires to challenge your views . you have a very childish behavior - you can put me on ignore , guess if i care . You are running not me and that tell me a whole lot about you . i dint come here to make friends i merely have my point of view . you have a very egotistic outlook on things . you claim your story to be true ??? well , i believe you . But you call others liars . You are mad that some people didnt look up to your claims and bow down to you thats all . as for me and you mixing ?????? uuhhhmm was this ever an issue ? you are a hard head and if you think i should denounce my faith you are wrong ...you believe what you want to but i have mine and i stick to it regardless what people say or claim ...c ya wouldn't wanna be ya

well honestly i see in other posts that you dont do to great with people in general you prove it over and over and attack anyone that just tires to challenge your views . you have a very childish behavior - you can put me on ignore , guess if i care . You are running not me and that tell me a whole lot about you . i dint come here to make friends i merely have my point of view . you have a very egotistic outlook on things . you claim your story to be true ??? well , i believe you . But you call others liars . You are mad that some people didnt look up to your claims and bow down to you thats all . as for me and you mixing ?????? uuhhhmm was this ever an issue ? you are a hard head and if you think i should denounce my faith you are wrong ...you believe what you want to but i have mine and i stick to it regardless what people say or claim ...c ya wouldn't wanna be ya

the thing that you despise is that i believe in islam and i am muslim thats the whole point and i read page after page what you think about it and you got mad because you got served by Helen of annoy ... you need to take a good look in the mirror mister

Edited September 21, 2015 by YA AMAR

[meryt-tetisheri]

the thing that you despise is that i believe in islam and i am muslim thats the whole point and i read page after page what you think about it and you got mad because you got served by Helen of annoy ... you need to take a good look in the mirror mister

'YA AMAR', first this is a very nice name ; I am sorry you were ill and wish you the best of health.

I have been following your posts here, and though as an Egyptian I can better understand your position, yet allow me to play the devil's advocate as I disagree with some points you (and others) raised.

Several times you mentioned 'bashing' of Arabs & Muslims in the West, implying that this is the main motive/reason many are worried about the recent wave of migrants & asylum seekers. It is regrettable if you have experienced the bigotry of some at one point or the other. However, this is not a characteristic of people here, or Western societies in general. I have lived by now most of my life in Europe, married a European, have family and friends here, and not even once have I, or many others I know, experienced any instance of discrimination or prejudice. The increasing numbers of Muslims seeking residence here, even before 2011, would in itself be proof of the tolerance of Western societies.

Nevertheless, there are no cultures which are devoid of problems, neither East nor West. The Middle East is not Utopia. I can understand your emotional response to what you perceived as bias, but enumerating problems in the West did not address the question at all. Maybe alcoholism is not a problem in the ME, but we do do have serious social issues with addiction: from Qat in Yemen to cannabis in Ketama, passing by pills in Egypt! Juvenile delinquency, school drop out & higher illiteracy rates among women, unfair family laws, FGM, lenient laws for crimes against women...the list goes on. Glossing over problems means they will never be properly diagnosed nor addressed. Unless the cultural norms which dictate these problems are resolved, the ME will continue to stumble. Rape rates in USA have little or no bearing on the problems we are facing in the ME. The last straw, we now have ISIS, enslaving women & selling them in markets! You mentioned the 'Arab mentality' of men as providers travelling alone/ahead of the family, to support them; but this applies only in cases of immigration or temporary work, when the women and children are safe at home not when they are likely to be slaughtered or become sex slaves of a group of maniacs. In the case of asylum seekers, these women were abandoned to their fate, so are we talking about migrants or asylum seekers?.

Some facts need to be delineated to avoid confusion of the topic:

1) Of the 449, 421 who arrived by sea in 2015 only 51% are Syrians. The rest come from 10 other different countries (UNCHR http://data.unhcr.or...an/regional.php ) Hence, not all are running for their life from Syria or war torn countries

2)More than 70% of the refugees are males, the largest group are men between 18-34

3) Hungary ranked third in Europe in "The number of asylum applicants and their relative importance (for example, their number in relation to the total resident population of the country where the application is lodged" (http://ec.europa.eu/...tat_information)

4) Europe is passing through a prolonged economic crisis, from banks 'which are too big to fail', to rising taxes, cost of living, unemployment etc. That European citizens are worried is neither a sign of bigotry nor selfishness, rather the inadequacy and ineptitude of governments. It is not about bashing Islam & ArabsWatch the video below to get a 'feel' of what the most vulnerable in Europe are passing through:

German government evict poor Germans from their homes"

https://www.youtube....player_embedded

5) Out of the 2.1 million Syrians registered by UNCHR in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, and Lebanon only 24,000 are registered in North Africa, according to the map mostly in Libya. How many are registered in Algeria, Tunisia or Morocco? How many are welcomed in Saudi Arabia, Qatar (the 2 countries which funded the collapse and civil war of Syria), or Kuwait, Oman, UAE... Isn't "Al qarib awla bil ma3rouf"? Other than the fleeting intangible promises offered during a fit of their sincérité du moment, almost nothing

6) There is a problem of integration and willingness to adapt to the culture of the host country. An example is a Syrian driver who refused to cede passage at an intersection in Belgium, blocked city center traffic then refused to talk to the police officer because she was a woman. After being maced and pulled out of the car he still refused the service of the translator ay the prosecutor's office because once again, it was a woman. Finally he was taken to court. The judge turned out to be also a woman. No one knows if he finally talked to her or not; but she decided to keep him for a while . This is not because he's a Muslim, religion has nothing to do with it, idiocy does! Nevertheless, such incidents, even if only few, do scare some people. We are not talking about paying tourists who stay for a short while then leave, these are most likely permanent residents.

Lastly, while the 70% men are seeking refuge instead of fighting, this mother of two and other women back in Syria are fighting without helmets, bullet proof vests, equipment etc, and died heroically for their country, and I am extremely proud of them (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2782092/Mystery-surrounds-fate-Kurdish-female-fighter-poster-girl-reports-emerge-killed-bullet-avoid-taken-hostage-ISIS.html)

[kartikg]

I somehow feel that moderate Muslims want to impose moderate Islam and radical Muslims want to impose their version end result some version of Islam on others. Very rarely we hear any Muslim saying lets have a secular society and government .

[Deleted]

'YA AMAR', first this is a very nice name ; I am sorry you were ill and wish you the best of health.

I have been following your posts here, and though as an Egyptian I can better understand your position, yet allow me to play the devil's advocate as I disagree with some points you (and others) raised.

Several times you mentioned 'bashing' of Arabs & Muslims in the West, implying that this is the main motive/reason many are worried about the recent wave of migrants & asylum seekers. It is regrettable if you have experienced the bigotry of some at one point or the other. However, this is not a characteristic of people here, or Western societies in general. I have lived by now most of my life in Europe, married a European, have family and friends here, and not even once have I, or many others I know, experienced any instance of discrimination or prejudice. The increasing numbers of Muslims seeking residence here, even before 2011, would in itself be proof of the tolerance of Western societies.

Nevertheless, there are no cultures which are devoid of problems, neither East nor West. The Middle East is not Utopia. I can understand your emotional response to what you perceived as bias, but enumerating problems in the West did not address the question at all. Maybe alcoholism is not a problem in the ME, but we do do have serious social issues with addiction: from Qat in Yemen to cannabis in Ketama, passing by pills in Egypt! Juvenile delinquency, school drop out & higher illiteracy rates among women, unfair family laws, FGM, lenient laws for crimes against women...the list goes on. Glossing over problems means they will never be properly diagnosed nor addressed. Unless the cultural norms which dictate these problems are resolved, the ME will continue to stumble. Rape rates in USA have little or no bearing on the problems we are facing in the ME. The last straw, we now have ISIS, enslaving women & selling them in markets! You mentioned the 'Arab mentality' of men as providers travelling alone/ahead of the family, to support them; but this applies only in cases of immigration or temporary work, when the women and children are safe at home not when they are likely to be slaughtered or become sex slaves of a group of maniacs. In the case of asylum seekers, these women were abandoned to their fate, so are we talking about migrants or asylum seekers?.

Some facts need to be delineated to avoid confusion of the topic:

1) Of the 449, 421 who arrived by sea in 2015 only 51% are Syrians. The rest come from 10 other different countries (UNCHR http://data.unhcr.or...an/regional.php ) Hence, not all are running for their life from Syria or war torn countries

2)More than 70% of the refugees are males, the largest group are men between 18-34

3) Hungary ranked third in Europe in "The number of asylum applicants and their relative importance (for example, their number in relation to the total resident population of the country where the application is lodged" (http://ec.europa.eu/...tat_information)

4) Europe is passing through a prolonged economic crisis, from banks 'which are too big to fail', to rising taxes, cost of living, unemployment etc. That European citizens are worried is neither a sign of bigotry nor selfishness, rather the inadequacy and ineptitude of governments. It is not about bashing Islam & ArabsWatch the video below to get a 'feel' of what the most vulnerable in Europe are passing through:

German government evict poor Germans from their homes"

https://www.youtube....player_embedded

5) Out of the 2.1 million Syrians registered by UNCHR in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, and Lebanon only 24,000 are registered in North Africa, according to the map mostly in Libya. How many are registered in Algeria, Tunisia or Morocco? How many are welcomed in Saudi Arabia, Qatar (the 2 countries which funded the collapse and civil war of Syria), or Kuwait, Oman, UAE... Isn't "Al qarib awla bil ma3rouf"? Other than the fleeting intangible promises offered during a fit of their sincérité du moment, almost nothing

6) There is a problem of integration and willingness to adapt to the culture of the host country. An example is a Syrian driver who refused to cede passage at an intersection in Belgium, blocked city center traffic then refused to talk to the police officer because she was a woman. After being maced and pulled out of the car he still refused the service of the translator ay the prosecutor's office because once again, it was a woman. Finally he was taken to court. The judge turned out to be also a woman. No one knows if he finally talked to her or not; but she decided to keep him for a while . This is not because he's a Muslim, religion has nothing to do with it, idiocy does! Nevertheless, such incidents, even if only few, do scare some people. We are not talking about paying tourists who stay for a short while then leave, these are most likely permanent residents.

Lastly, while the 70% men are seeking refuge instead of fighting, this mother of two and other women back in Syria are fighting without helmets, bullet proof vests, equipment etc, and died heroically for their country, and I am extremely proud of them (http://www.dailymail...stage-ISIS.html)

Thats naive of you, the point is that people do take these cases and say all moslems are like that. They make it about religion. I read enough forums to know that all about people write is religion. It is only about Islam for most of teh people. (you even can read it in this thread -.-) Do you know why, because the majority of people in the west dont mind if someone is sexist, if he/she discriminates and do you know why thsi is because most christians are like that since they are raised by the bible and the bible and quoran have the same roots, they are naturally sexist and discriminating its the same in Europe its the same in Africa. For example if it was a christian who reacted like a macho and said he doesnt want to talk to a woman, then he would have been a sexist and th ignorant fools would never have made a connection between christianity and his behaviour, while christianity is as patriachal as islam is.

I admit that some facts you state are true, but as I said in another post I am neither a fan of christianity or islam, nor I am a fan of patriachal cultures and fascisme and these things existed and can exist in the west. Not long a ago spain was a dictatorship and spain is stll very conservative and violent. It is true that the laws in the west are better than they are in most african countries, but socially europe it is not sacred place, for exampel if the right wing nuts gain power it will turn out to be pretty much the same as north africa, if additionally the economy crashes. You will see how they will prosecute non-christians, enforce anti gay laws and enforce anti- women laws. And european history has proven that many times.

Anyway, all in all people make it about Islam thats what the politicians wanted to and thats what the people do. Fact is people are immigrating and Europe needs to handle it, by handling I dont mean closing borders and forcing them onto Greece, Turkey, Serbia and other ocuntries. By handling I dont mean letting them starve or attack children with pepper spray and teargas like slovenia and hungary, I mean providing camps where they get support and can register, while teh EU decides onto every indivudals status.

Edit: women who flee often gets raped abuse and worse during their journey so I wonder whats more secure staying behind, where she has protection from friends and family and sending a male to the EU or "traveling" as a woman to the west.

Edited September 22, 2015 by hellwyr

[141]

Thats naive of you, the point is that people do take these cases and say all moslems are like that. They make it about religion. I read enough forums to know that all about people write is religion. It is only about Islam for most of teh people. (you even can read it in this thread -.-) Do you know why, because the majority of people in the west dont mind if someone is sexist, if he/she discriminates and do you know why thsi is because most christians are like that since they are raised by the bible and the bible and quoran have the same roots, they are naturally sexist and discriminating its the same in Europe its the same in Africa. For example if it was a christian who reacted like a macho and said he doesnt want to talk to a woman, then he would have been a sexist and th ignorant fools would never have made a connection between christianity and his behaviour, while christianity is as patriachal as islam is.

I admit that some facts you state are true, but as I said in another post I am neither a fan of christianity or islam, nor I am a fan of patriachal cultures and fascisme and these things existed and can exist in the west. Not long a ago spain was a dictatorship and spain is stll very conservative and violent. It is true that the laws in the west are better than they are in most african countries, but socially europe it is not sacred place, for exampel if the right wing nuts gain power it will turn out to be pretty much the same as north africa, if additionally the economy crashes. You will see how they will prosecute non-christians, enforce anti gay laws and enforce anti- women laws. And european history has proven that many times.

Anyway, all in all people make it about Islam thats what the politicians wanted to and thats what the people do. Fact is people are immigrating and Europe needs to handle it, by handling I dont mean closing borders and forcing them onto Greece, Turkey, Serbia and other ocuntries. By handling I dont mean letting them starve or attack children with pepper spray and teargas like slovenia and hungary, I mean providing camps where they get support and can register, while teh EU decides onto every indivudals status.

Edit: women who flee often gets raped abuse and worse during their journey so I wonder whats more secure staying behind, where she has protection from friends and family and sending a male to the EU or "traveling" as a woman to the west.

this is well said and wisely explained ....xxxxx

[bmk1245]

[...] I mean providing camps where they get support and can register, while teh EU decides onto every indivudals status.

[...]

By they you mean refugees, who refused to be placed in camps in Hungary?

PS your

[...] By handling I dont mean letting them starve or attack children with pepper spray and teargas like slovenia and hungary[...]

smells of dishonesty. Aggressive crowd was peppersprayed. Blame parents who put their kids in the harm's way... Edited September 22, 2015 by bmk1245

[141]

I somehow feel that moderate Muslims want to impose moderate Islam and radical Muslims want to impose their version end result some version of Islam on others. Very rarely we hear any Muslim saying lets have a secular society and government .

Maybe you would need to be arab to understand it i dont know but most arabs do live in a secular society and if i compare mine to yours the only difference is its name what you call law we call islam and ours means peace . we have everything you have there is no difference and if some people wish to hold on to certain believes then that might be for a good reason . i am making this statement with the exceptions of some arab nations where they apply strict rules but are being the most hypocrites . we have modernized islam but when i make a referrance to it its being called bs and lies ... no one wish to see what all those scholars are trying so hard to break old habbits that never had anything to do with islam in the first place . even them being attacked because they want to keep the people small and dumb . if they would invest the money that they invested in all the wars instead of education it would be far better . but we cant win no matter how hard we try we just cant .

[Deleted]

By they you mean refugees, who refused to be placed in camps in Hungary?

Hungary used many tactics against refugees they told them they are brought to a camp while the buses they used took them to Serbia, they intetntionally blocked NGOS so the refugees dont get food, also what camps are you talking about a lot of refugees were just left alone dependend on private support, which was most of the time blocked by the Hungarian authority.

Edited September 22, 2015 by hellwyr

[Black Monk]

Most of these "refugees" are nothing of the sort. Most are fit and able young men and very few are women and children and the infirm. It's about time we stopped believing our PC politicians and see this for what it is - a horde of Muslims (including, I should think, a farly large number of ISIS) wanting to colonise and Islamisise Europe and murder thousands of millions whilst they are it.

Rather than having ten families of these "refugees" in every British town as the Labour loons want, we need to start being very concerned about it and pull up the drawbridge.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Black Monk

[Deleted]

Most of these "refugees" are nothing of the sort. Most are fit and able young men and very few are women and children and the infirm. It's about time we stopped believing our PC politicians and see this what it is - a horde of Muslims wanting to colonise and Islamisise Europe.

I wonder how they will colonize a continent with about 500 million people.

edit: btw it were the west who bombed north africa and asia for decades, so it looks more like the west tries to colonize north africa ONCE AGAIN.

And you love to connect everything with religion so if I were you Id have to say they want to christianize north africa with weapons ONCE AGAIN, like Bush said god told him to do so.

Edited September 22, 2015 by hellwyr

[141]

Most of these "refugees" are nothing of the sort. Most are fit and able young men and very few are women and children and the infirm. It's about time we stopped believing our PC politicians and see this for what it is - a horde of Muslims (including, I should think, a farly large number of ISIS) wanting to colonise and Islamisise Europe and murder thousands of millions whilst they are it.

Rather than having ten families of these "refugees" in every British town as the Labour loons want, we need to start being very concerned about it and pull up the drawbridge.

you already know that a horde of muslims trying to murder thousands of millions ??????????? uuurrrggghhhhh

[bmk1245]

Hungary used many tactics against refugees they told them they are brought to a camp while the buses they used took them to Serbia, they intetntionally blocked NGOS so the refugees dont get food, also what camps are you talking about a lot of refugees were just left alone dependend on private support, which was most of the time blocked by the Hungarian authority.

What do you expect when no one was prepared for such influx of people? Heck, even Germany restricted flow of refugees. You simply can't build housings for tens of thousands in just few days...

[Deleted]

What do you expect when no one was prepared for such influx of people? Heck, even Germany restricted flow of refugees. You simply can't build housings for tens of thousands in just few days...

I think Austria handels it better

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/world/europe/austria-takes-on-role-of-distribution-center-for-migrants.html?_r=0

Also it wasnt sudden, they entered Greece and other countries like 1 year or 2 years ago.

[bmk1245]

I think Austria handels it better

http://www.nytimes.c...rants.html?_r=0

[...]

Yeah, with the help of Hungary, where the flow was stopped for a while, giving a chance for Austria to "look nice"...

[...]

Also it wasnt sudden, they entered Greece and other countries like 1 year or 2 years ago.

What was the rate of refugee arrivals back two years ago, and month (or so) ago?

[Deleted]

Yeah, with the help of Hungary, where the flow was stopped for a while, giving a chance for Austria to "look nice"...

What was the rate of refugee arrivals back two years ago, and month (or so) ago?

in Greece, Turkey and Italy the gates to Europe , all what is happening now happened there 2 years ago. I can remember when I read about attacks of turkish people on asylum seekers and migrants, same goes for Greece and Italy. This developement is no surprise.

And no, Hungary could have been in the same position as Austria they could have used the money which they invested in their freaky fence to act as a distribution center and coordinated with their neighbors, not engaging in conflict with their neighbors. Also Orban uses tactics to manipulate the public and he plays a game (Thats also what he always states in his disgusting interviews; that all is just a game for him. )

Edited September 22, 2015 by hellwyr

[bmk1245]

Well, well, well... German railway halts key Austria, Hungary services until Oct 4... What a surprise... A.Merkel can make another announcement "Keep going"...

[Mr.United_Nations]

Ha that complicates everything