Leo Krupe Posted September 16, 2015 #51 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) The only way to stop a bad guy with a clock, is a good guy with a clock. I was thinking along the same lines....if only the teacher had a clock. But Ahmed would've been waaaaaaaaaay cooler had he built a nixie clock! Edited September 16, 2015 by Leo Krupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted September 16, 2015 #52 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Strangest looking clock I ever saw I think the teachers have no obligation to be knowledgeable about what bombs look like. They were proceeding out of an abundance of caution and that is the correct way for them to act. News flash!: we are living in a dangerous world. People named Ahmed are slaughtering thousands of innocents brutally for an ideology they are quite willing to die for. Should the child actually have been ARRESTED? Hell no! And if he were my son I would demand a public apology (in front of every person who saw him treated that way) from the teachers right up to the principal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted September 17, 2015 #53 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Certainly, the teacher had a right to his suspicions, racist or otherwise. He wasn't even wrong in confiscating it. Heck, teachers confiscate comic books, let alone electronic devices. There wasn't even anything wrong with taking it to the principal. Up until that point, regardless of motivation, the actions were reasonable. It is there that things suddenly take a turn for the irrational. Obviously, no one seriously thought it was a bomb. If they had, the school would have been evacuated, and the teacher reprimanded for picking up the thing and carrying it around casually. If I had been that teacher, and I had been afraid it was a bomb, I would have also taken the child's cell phone, and marched the child to the principal's office immediately. So no, it really cannot be argued that anyone was in fear that the item was actually a bomb or that any lives were in imminent danger. So, knowing no lives were in danger, they did indeed have the freedom to act a bit more rationally. The first person to be called should have been the counselor. It is literally their job to present the student's position and be their informal advocate. This could have ended right there. Heck, the worst case scenario should have been that the child was expelled for a few days, and the parents would have to come to pick him up. So, assuming the adults are not out-and-out bigots and racists, but more normal people, what is the most likely reason that they would have acted in such an irrational fashion when they had the time and safety to stop and think about it. Well, the only answer is that the thinking had already been done. That there was already a process in place specifically laying out what is to be done in this situation. That is what happens in a litigious society. Groups become very afraid of being targeted by the law, and so they create things to defend themselves. By creating an action plan, they make a very valid case that they were just doing what they thought was best, and thus cannot be held to fault, particularly when a plan looks so good on paper. Of course, the whole thing falls apart when you realize that you are not just dealing with humans, you are dealing with children. At that point, protecting yourself to the point that you lose the freedom to act becomes a liability, and the very plans that were supposed to be your shield become your prison. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skliss Posted September 17, 2015 #54 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Right... dealing with children, a teen age boy in particular. For all we know, he did it as a joke or because he was dared by a friend to being something to school that resembled a bomb. Sorry guys but having raised boys I know that what seems funny to them sometimes overwhelms common sense. The Muslim student, bringing a bomb-ish item to school in order to freak out the faculty may have seemed hilarious to them.... right up until one of them got arrested. In that case, "clock" seems a bit flimsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted September 17, 2015 #55 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The sad part is that the probability of the kid being totally at fault isn't quite as high as the chance that events did indeed unfold as they are being reported. Additionally, all the comments regarding the reaction that resulted in him getting arrested are still valid. Whether or not he did actually build a hoax bomb as a joke because he is a stupid kid (which, incidentally, does not seem to be an accusation made by anyone involved), there is still the uncomfortable feeling that, had he been a white child, the matter would not have escalated so ridiculously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
141 Posted September 17, 2015 #56 Share Posted September 17, 2015 actually us arabs have to take a lot and we aren't allowed to even defend ourselves most of the time ...i travel by plane a lot and whenever i go through security i am always being investigated ( i call it harassment ) because my laptop does not have a battery anymore , i was literally told thats what terrorist do ... not to mention the many jokes we have endure at times and those jokes aren't funny . My husband travels a lot for work.... he isn't of middle eastern descent, but he is dark skinned, has dark brown eyes, dark brown hair and wears a beard. He is always the guy they pull out of line to check and you know what? He takes it with good grace. In his mind if that's what it takes for everyone to travel safely then its not really a big deal. I'd save my anger for those who have made these measures necessary......those who have no regard for innocent human lives. i do understand what you are saying and i feel the same way if its all done for safety ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted September 17, 2015 #57 Share Posted September 17, 2015 He's not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted September 17, 2015 #58 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The solution is somewhere between extreme zero tolerance and total complacency. But what is the solution? I'd rather go for "total complacency", I think, rather than have Officialdom "protecting" me all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 17, 2015 #59 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The sad part is that the probability of the kid being totally at fault isn't quite as high as the chance that events did indeed unfold as they are being reported. Additionally, all the comments regarding the reaction that resulted in him getting arrested are still valid. Whether or not he did actually build a hoax bomb as a joke because he is a stupid kid (which, incidentally, does not seem to be an accusation made by anyone involved), there is still the uncomfortable feeling that, had he been a white child, the matter would not have escalated so ridiculously. That's the problem -- the kid was handcuffed when it was known it wasn't a bomb and he was no danger. There was bias going on there and a white kid would not have been expelled either. I can see the teacher's reaction from how the thing looked, but once it was settled that there was no explosive present the whole thing should have ended. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted September 17, 2015 #60 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) ] My husband travels a lot for work.... he isn't of middle eastern descent, but he is dark skinned, has dark brown eyes, dark brown hair and wears a beard. He is always the guy they pull out of line to check and you know what? He takes it with good grace. In his mind if that's what it takes for everyone to travel safely then its not really a big deal. I'd save my anger for those who have made these measures necessary......those who have no regard for innocent human lives. Really? He just accepts that "because it's a price we must pay for Freedom"? he smiles and accepts it because they're just trying to Protect everyone? I appreciate that if he did make any kind of fuss, he'd probably be tazed by Transportation Security or Homeland Security or any one of the other Security goons, but I really don't understand how anyone could be so brow-beaten and in awe of power that they accept this kind of victimisation with "good grace". Edited September 17, 2015 by Norbert the Powerful 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 17, 2015 #61 Share Posted September 17, 2015 ]Really? He just accepts that "because it's a price we must pay for Freedom"? he smiles and accepts it because they're just trying to Protect everyone? I appreciate that if he did make any kind of fuss, he'd probably be tazed by Transportation Security or Homeland Security or any one of the other Security goons, but I really don't understand how anyone could be so brow-beaten and in awe of power that they accept this kind of victimisation with "good grace". If I were in his shoes I would certainly not make a big deal, and I don't think it would bother me much. I'm Asian and elderly and small and tend to dress in good clothes (business suit) so I am never picked out like that. I guess I just don't look the part -- now should that irritate me that they make such assumptions based on how I look. Thing is in my case the assumptions are correct.If things were otherwise, I would not say it was the price of freedom, but instead the price of safety. Thing is there is no freedom if you are dead. Here lies the grave of Mike O'Day Who died maintaining his right of way His right was clear His will was strong But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong (Anon.) I did a search on this poem and could not find an author, just some people who had also quoted it, so I assume anonymous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedemon Posted September 17, 2015 #62 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) A clock, in a briefcase, that pretty much looked like a bomb. The world is different now folks and we just have to accept it. I see some are trying to push this tiring and worn out "it's racism" argument. Screaming racist is just getting annoying, people use it so loosely these days. It had less to do with the color of his skin, more to do with the fact he had an Islamic name, and the fact his clock "did look like a bomb". Nothing to do with skin color or ethnicity. You can't be racist against a religion. If you look up the official definition of 'racism' in the dictionary, you won't find any reference to religion or even culture, that doesn't directly involve ethnicity. In my opinion, Islam itself makes it very difficult for Westerners not to have a few prejudice's against it. It remains the only religion in existence "in our modern day", that has "global" terrorist networks in operation, it's reach expanding across the entire globe. There is hardly a place Islamic extremism can't reach and there are many places, Western civilization included that Islam has attacked. If Christianity were sending in suicide bombers and terror attacks on a daily basis, people would be prejudice against them as well. Christianity has modernized itself, Judaism, Buddhism ect... But Islam hasn't changed for hundreds of years, and continues it's same practices and laws (Sharia). This is the real reason this kid got a bad rap. I feel bad for the guy and it's a shame, but when you shout 'racism', you kill the debate and leave no room for a genuine discussion on why this happened and how we can make sure it isn't repeated often. People often say to me, "Not all Muslims are terrorists". Then i agree and reply, "But most terrorists are Muslim". And unfortunately, it's just the truth. It isn't racism, it's reality. Islam needs to adjust itself to modern day living standards and stop the non-sense if it wants equal respect in this world. And seriously, stop making everything about racism. Those that do this often, it's just an easy way for them to silence the opposition and ignore a genuine discussion that might get to the root of the real issue. Edited September 17, 2015 by xxxdemonxxx 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kartikg Posted September 17, 2015 #63 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Feels like a staged event from authorities to start the discussion about how not all Muslims aren't terrorists and America should become more tolerant society. Elections are coming so expect more such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted September 17, 2015 #64 Share Posted September 17, 2015 A clock, in a briefcase, that pretty much looked like a bomb. The "briefcase" was a pencil box. You get them for about $7.00 at Wal-Mart. It is about half the size of the average textbook. Vaultz Locking Pencil Box "But most terrorists are Muslim" and the IRA are Catholics... Or wait...maybe it isn't the religion that defines the terrorist. Maybe it is their actions. Oh, and don't be so proud of Christianity modernizing itself. It is neither all that far in the past, nor was it done without a substantial amount of kicking and screaming. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 17, 2015 #65 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Feels like a staged event from authorities to start the discussion about how not all Muslims aren't terrorists and America should become more tolerant society. Elections are coming so expect more such things. Nonsense; politicians aren't smart enough to pull off such a thing without it coming out. What happened was real enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted September 17, 2015 #66 Share Posted September 17, 2015 well, and here a picture of "the bomb": an explosive device with main connector.... I rest my case.... (Image Source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted September 17, 2015 Author #67 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) From the Reuters article you linked, qm... Two school police officers initially questioned the student and he told them he had built a clock."He didn't explain properly what it was and they felt compelled to arrest him," McLellan said. "Okay Bin Laden, what is this?" "My name is Ahmed." "Whatever. Now what is this?" "It's a clock, sir." "What sort of 'clock'? Explain properly!" "Ummmm...a digital clock?" "That's it! You're under arrest for not explaining properly what this 'digital clock' is!" Edited September 17, 2015 by Leonardo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefers Posted September 17, 2015 #68 Share Posted September 17, 2015 And this is the kind of stuff that makes the US lag behind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 17, 2015 #69 Share Posted September 17, 2015 And this is the kind of stuff that makes the US lag behind... Police are like that everywhere. I think he was stuck and couldn't think of anything to ask so he just arrested him. Funny if it weren't sad; I'm not sure it reflects bias tho, just a certain density of brain tissue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted September 17, 2015 #70 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Police are like that everywhere. I think he was stuck and couldn't think of anything to ask so he just arrested him. Funny if it weren't sad; I'm not sure it reflects bias tho, just a certain density of brain tissue. As I always say: if your pay for a cop is GS4 to GS6 the best you are going to get is "The best" of every family. Therefore you should not be surprised if "The Force" lacks brains. Add to that some hysteric teachers and next you have a kid in need of counseling (or you might end up with a radical). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skliss Posted September 17, 2015 #71 Share Posted September 17, 2015 ]Really? He just accepts that "because it's a price we must pay for Freedom"? he smiles and accepts it because they're just trying to Protect everyone? I appreciate that if he did make any kind of fuss, he'd probably be tazed by Transportation Security or Homeland Security or any one of the other Security goons, but I really don't understand how anyone could be so brow-beaten and in awe of power that they accept this kind of victimisation with "good grace". Because he's a mature adult... one who doesn't knee-jerk take everything personally..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted September 17, 2015 Author #72 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Because he's a mature adult... one who doesn't knee-jerk take everything personally..... “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” Those words, I think, apply here. Ahmed would be quite entitled to fight for his Liberty, and it would not be an "immature, knee-jerk reaction" to do so, but a warning to authority that they cannot justify the abridging of a citizen's liberty with the excuse of "security". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Posted September 17, 2015 #73 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) typical case of discrimination (and burining of taxmoney) they should pay him money to make it up. Also the school seems to be especially stupid they didnt even revoke the suspension, but it is Texas so it shouldnt be surprising. Edited September 17, 2015 by hellwyr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
141 Posted September 17, 2015 #74 Share Posted September 17, 2015 ]Really? He just accepts that "because it's a price we must pay for Freedom"? he smiles and accepts it because they're just trying to Protect everyone? I appreciate that if he did make any kind of fuss, he'd probably be tazed by Transportation Security or Homeland Security or any one of the other Security goons, but I really don't understand how anyone could be so brow-beaten and in awe of power that they accept this kind of victimisation with "good grace". we have to accept it otherwise we will see ourselves in handcuffs that's the brutal reality . The law is on their side . The minute we try to express anger they use it against us . it is easy for her to say what she said and her husband has no other choice but to accept but we all have feelings ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted September 17, 2015 #75 Share Posted September 17, 2015 To Ahmed, yes. To someone who gets offended because a passenger deals with getting searched at the airport in a mature fashion, not so much. Safety and freedom are not mutually incompatible, but they are causally connected. Pretending you can have one without the other is ridiculous. It is the same sort of idiocy that makes the rest of the world wonder if the U.S. isn't just pretending to be crazy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now