Croatia closes border crossings with Serbia

[aztek]

Hey it's for pilgrims, OK? Stop being a religious bigot.

Edit to add--

It's a stone's throw away real close to Syria and the tent's have A/C?

it is not about religion, it is their brothers are in time of need, why not help them? why let them go to infidel christian\cathoilc countries? that lifestyle is alien to them. just think about women have same rights, and being gay is normal. i'm not even talking about gay parades. all of it is alien, and unnatural to them.

Edited September 18, 2015 by aztek

[Harry_Dresden]

Yes, your government's fault. And which is worse: that your authorities know about jihadist organizations and do nothing, or they don't even know what's going on?

Hundreds of islamists are going in and out of your country without any sanctions and remind me when was the last time you panicked about that?

Whole world knows your country is the hotspot for actual terrorists, but it's non-islamist migrants that scare you?!

Not just Europe, whole world suffers consequences of your government's chronic tolerance to actual islamists. You will put Europe into position where it will be forced to defend itself violently.

edit: All right, French too. This mess is yours and French fault. Your attitude towards common minorities and the actual plague are exactly opposite of the sane.

I think Europe's politicians are completely out of touch with reality. Governing isn't all about numbers and legal rights its about quality of life. People should start to demand better lifestyles and living standards and less about export and import numbers and foreign policy adventurism. Consumerism is failing Europe... EU dreams of one country is failing the people too. And encouraging upheaval that ends up back in Europe, as is the case with these refugees is not in the interests of Europe nor America. Who says Europe need to grow constantly in order to have a future?

But for some strange reason European politicians seem to favour foreign political machinations over governing the people they were elected to lead and care for. In this case a stable Syria and Iraq would serve the interests of the UK and Europe far more than denying the Russians a safe warm water port. France, Germany and the UK should think a little less of lofty foreign ideals and more about local issues. they were elected to do by the people that matter.

[Helen of Annoy]

I cant quite understand the point your making? Are you blaming the UK and France because of "our attitudes" towards minority groups? And yet in the next breath you are asking us to show the same "attitudes" to thousands of unknown Syrian Refugees? you want to make your mind up.

If people don't break the laws of the land you cannot just arrest them until such time they break those laws. I guess that's the price we pay for a open society and freedoms after all this stance is in accordance with the European Union laws on human rights, the very same Union your country has joined and the very same laws and directives you yourself as a country have to adhere to.

Oh, you can't quite understand. It must be the accent that's confusing you. Try reading my previous post again without an accent and suddenly it will dawn on you.

[Helen of Annoy]

I think Europe's politicians are completely out of touch with reality. Governing isn't all about numbers and legal rights its about quality of life. People should start to demand better lifestyles and living standards and less about export and import numbers and foreign policy adventurism. Consumerism is failing Europe... EU dreams of one country is failing the people too. And encouraging upheaval that ends up back in Europe, as is the case with these refugees is not in the interests of Europe nor America. Who says Europe need to grow constantly in order to have a future?

But for some strange reason European politicians seem to favour foreign political machinations over governing the people they were elected to lead and care for. In this case a stable Syria and Iraq would serve the interests of the UK and Europe far more than denying the Russians a safe warm water port. France, Germany and the UK should think a little less of lofty foreign ideals and more about local issues. they were elected to do by the people that matter.

EU was built starting with the roof instead of with the foundations. It's a great, natural idea and we will make it possible in the future. Once the constant growth and other myths are finally dropped.

Just one thing: for the love of god, do not suggest Russians were innocent geopolitical victim in this near-catastrophe. If they weren't on their own expansionist trip, this wouldn't be half as bad as it is.

[stevewinn]

Oh, you can't quite understand. It must be the accent that's confusing you. Try reading my previous post again without an accent and suddenly it will dawn on you.

I've read it in 52 different accents. No, still doesn't make sense. explain in detail what you meant. in your post #21 and in my request in post No #25.

[Harry_Dresden]

EU was built starting with the roof instead of with the foundations. It's a great, natural idea and we will make it possible in the future. Once the constant growth and other myths are finally dropped.

Just one thing: for the love of god, do not suggest Russians were innocent geopolitical victim in this near-catastrophe. If they weren't on their own expansionist trip, this wouldn't be half as bad as it is.

No i don't deny that the Russians are innocent. But Syria and Iraq is just a continuation of the Arab spring policies that have failed Europe miserably. All the "bad" guy's we replaced have been replaced by even more evil and disgusting power structures. Did the West destroy and remake the middle East so we can have a refugee problem and an incubator for terrorists on our doorstep?

Personally i'd rather have a good old traditional bad guy like the Russians than have to deal with a shadowy terrorist culture that can't be treated nor attacked directly forcing Europe to change to accommodate.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Harry_Dresden

[Helen of Annoy]

I've read it in 52 different accents. No, still doesn't make sense. explain in detail what you meant. in your post #21 and in my request in post No #25.

Your system keeps failing to recognize, apprehend and sentence terrorists and terrorist supporters.

It makes your government worse danger for the whole world than Merkel is for Germany alone.

Is it any clearer now or you wish me to try using shorter words? Like, Jihadi John? **** him and every single moron who allowed him to become what he is.

[Helen of Annoy]

No i don't deny that the Russians are innocent. But Syria and Iraq is just a continuation of the Arab spring policies that have failed Europe miserably. All the "bad" guy's we replaced have been replaced by even more evil and disgusting power structures. Did the West destroy and remake the middle East so we can have a refugee problem and an incubator for terrorists on our doorstep?

Personally i'd rather have a good old traditional bad guy like the Russians than have to deal with a shadowy terrorist culture that can't be treated nor attacked directly forcing Europe to change to accommodate.

I believe Arab springs wouldn't be possible if people weren't genuinely angry at current dictators. But I must agree the springs were not followed with any assistance in building better society, what was done was directly the opposite so it all went to literal hell. This makes me accept the worst conspiracies as possible truth. Profit out of chaos... and Russians can't be out of that scheme. But we digressed.

Back on topic: train with migrants from Croatia entered Hungary, as it was agreed, and the Hungarians promptly arrested engine-drivers and wanted to disarm 30 policemen that were escorting the train. Because the train we agreed will enter Hungary has entered it without permission.

This is truly hilarious. And it has to do with some other neighbouring issues from before. We'll see how far it goes, but it will be amusing.

[stevewinn]

Your system keeps failing to recognize, apprehend and sentence terrorists and terrorist supporters.

It makes your government worse danger for the whole world than Merkel is for Germany alone.

Is it any clearer now or you wish me to try using shorter words? Like, Jihadi John? **** him and every single moron who allowed him to become what he is.

Our System is not failing to recognise the Terrorist threats, Because its clear after every terror event theose involved are known by the security services. So the system works the part of the System which doesnt work to well, is the Human rights Laws. which is a directive from the European Court. The same European Court which prevents the UK from Deporting radical preachers.

It's the price we are paying for a failed multicultural policy forced on countries such as the UK, Germany, France etc... Video below. Demo in Germany three days ago. Merkel's policy is to allow hundreds of thousands of unknowns from a part of the world in which ISIS has been fighting. The EU have put out a statement that 4 out of 5 that's 80% of "migrants" are not Syrians. - I bet this morning a few people feel very silly. 80% of those in Europe are not refugees. And Merkel is making Germany safer. Yes right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NrXIe0wvp4

[141]

Our System is not failing to recognise the Terrorist threats, Because its clear after every terror event theose involved are known by the security services. So the system works the part of the System which doesnt work to well, is the Human rights Laws. which is a directive from the European Court. The same European Court which prevents the UK from Deporting radical preachers.

It's the price we are paying for a failed multicultural policy forced on countries such as the UK, Germany, France etc... Video below. Demo in Germany three days ago. Merkel's policy is to allow hundreds of thousands of unknowns from a part of the world in which ISIS has been fighting. The EU have put out a statement that 4 out of 5 that's 80% of "migrants" are not Syrians. - I bet this morning a few people feel very silly. 80% of those in Europe are not refugees. And Merkel is making Germany safer. Yes right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NrXIe0wvp4

Edited September 19, 2015 by YA AMAR

[Deleted]

There are murderes among the common population, there might be terrorists within the refugees, there are rapists amongst the common population, is the solution you propose that we imprison all people so we can prevent murder and rape, do you want to let 1000 die and starve because you want to prevent potential terrorism, thats not how it works. But right wing peopel always were fans of autrocratic leadership and facisms, where everyone needs to be controled and where freedom is taken away under the premise of false security. That attitude creates resistance and brings upon people what they fear most; violence and resistance. I think the handling of this refugee crisis (not the first one in the past hundred years) shows the general trend towards fascist thinking and attitudes, the same happened before WW2 and we can observe the same happening now. It is just another example amongst many in the past decade, which shows how closminded and fearfull parts our generation and world has become.

Creating scapegoats, making refugees into terrorists murderes and criminals, judging peopel before they have even done anyting, discrediting them as inhonorable because they dont want to die a horrible death under ISIS, which btw was indriectly created and directly supported by the west and some gulf states. The supporters of this politics are willing to sacrifice freedom for security, which in reality is just a form of opression and control.

How much islamic terror has Europe seen the past decades, not much there was more rightwing terrorism, everyday in Germany someone commits a rightwing extremist crime, but as long as some have a scapegoat they can feel at ease. The truth is the refugees are weak that is why it is easy to make them the scapegoats because cowards always attack the weakest.

Edited September 19, 2015 by hellwyr

[141]

There are murderes among the common population, there might be terrorists within the refugees, there are rapists amongst the common population, is the solution you propose that we imprison all people so we can prevent murder and rape, do you want to let 1000 die and starve because you want to prevent potential terrorism, thats not how it works. But right wing peopel always were fans of autrocratic leadership and facisms, where everyone needs to be controled and where freedom is taken away under the premise of false security. That attitude creates resistance and brings upon people what they fear most; violence and resistance. I think the handling of this refugee crisis (not the first one in the past hundred years) shows the general trend towards fascist thinking and attitudes, the same happened before WW2 and we can observe the same happening now. It is just another example amongst many in the past decade, which shows how closminded and fearfull parts our generation and world has become.

Creating scapegoats, making refugees into terrorists murderes and criminals, judging peopel before they have even done anyting, discrediting them as inhonorable because they dont want to die a horrible death under ISIS, which btw was indriectly created and directly supported by the west and some gulf states. The supporters of this politics are willing to sacrifice freedom for security, which in reality is just a form of opression and control.

How much islamic terror has Europe seen the past decades, not much there was more rightwing terrorism, everyday in Germany someone commits a rightwing extremist crime, but as long as some have a scapegoat they can feel at ease. The truth is the refugees are weak that is why it is easy to make them the scapegoats because cowards always attack the weakest.

very well said

[Thorvir]

Oh, you can't quite understand. It must be the accent that's confusing you. Try reading my previous post again without an accent and suddenly it will dawn on you.

Another ad hominen in place of an actual discussion. Figures.

I've read it in 52 different accents. No, still doesn't make sense. explain in detail what you meant. in your post #21 and in my request in post No #25.

And it won't make sense. This whole damn thing was a mistake from the start. And now it's turned into a monumental mess.

[Helen of Annoy]

A bit over 20,000 entered Croatia so far, few thousand went to Hungary and Slovenia.

Our train drivers apprehended in Hungary were returned.

Shelters in various Croatian towns along the route were kept as clean as possible. Food, water, medical aid, hygiene accessories are still delivered, many citizens are helping too, though most of our people are poor themselves.

The only problem is transport. Migrants are going on foot since there’s not enough of trains and buses. Croatia is small, but not that small for a pedestrian, there’s 300+ km from Serbian to Slovenian border. Some people spontaneously pick migrants up and drive them, others are trying to rob migrants blind with fare prices. It would be peachy if our former national oil company, now in Hungarian hands (it’s a huge local scandal that still wasn’t resolved) could donate some gas.

There are occasional fights between migrants, nervous and exhausted, but there was not one single incident with our citizens.

Many migrants are trying to pay for dinner or clothing with last money or jewellery they have. No one accepts, many of us know how hard it is to be a refugee (or economic migrant, for that matter). No one reported any theft.

Some confused too far right activists tried spreading rumours of wild migrants raping around capitol, but it was officially debunked, with added unofficial comment ‘these people are also too tired for any raping around’.

They are tired, scared and unarmed. Syrians and Iraqis mostly say they would rather be home, but it’s too dangerous and hopeless there at the moment.

It’s still so very sad and hard, but looks like the cooperation so hysterically refused will have to happen at last.

[141]

A bit over 20,000 entered Croatia so far, few thousand went to Hungary and Slovenia.

Our train drivers apprehended in Hungary were returned.

Shelters in various Croatian towns along the route were kept as clean as possible. Food, water, medical aid, hygiene accessories are still delivered, many citizens are helping too, though most of our people are poor themselves.

The only problem is transport. Migrants are going on foot since there’s not enough of trains and buses. Croatia is small, but not that small for a pedestrian, there’s 300+ km from Serbian to Slovenian border. Some people spontaneously pick migrants up and drive them, others are trying to rob migrants blind with fare prices. It would be peachy if our former national oil company, now in Hungarian hands (it’s a huge local scandal that still wasn’t resolved) could donate some gas.

There are occasional fights between migrants, nervous and exhausted, but there was not one single incident with our citizens.

Many migrants are trying to pay for dinner or clothing with last money or jewellery they have. No one accepts, many of us know how hard it is to be a refugee (or economic migrant, for that matter). No one reported any theft.

Some confused too far right activists tried spreading rumours of wild migrants raping around capitol, but it was officially debunked, with added unofficial comment ‘these people are also too tired for any raping around’.

They are tired, scared and unarmed. Syrians and Iraqis mostly say they would rather be home, but it’s too dangerous and hopeless there at the moment.

It’s still so very sad and hard, but looks like the cooperation so hysterically refused will have to happen at last.

thanx for this update it shows me that those who have been in bad situations know how it feels And they step in to help . My brother in law is from croatia and we all know what had happened there . what you post here is a small ray of sunshine to me at least people show compassion and help

[Helen of Annoy]

thanx for this update it shows me that those who have been in bad situations know how it feels And they step in to help . My brother in law is from croatia and we all know what had happened there . what you post here is a small ray of sunshine to me at least people show compassion and help

I am so sorry we can’t really help. We’re pretty much in need of help ourselves.

But I guarantee you we will do our best at least not to make it any harder for the migrants.

[141]

I am so sorry we can’t really help. We’re pretty much in need of help ourselves.

But I guarantee you we will do our best at least not to make it any harder for the migrants.

you know we say if you feed bread crumbs to one hungry man that is the best of deed ... even if so small its so big act

[Thorvir]

Our System is not failing to recognise the Terrorist threats, Because its clear after every terror event theose involved are known by the security services. So the system works the part of the System which doesnt work to well, is the Human rights Laws. which is a directive from the European Court. The same European Court which prevents the UK from Deporting radical preachers.

It's the price we are paying for a failed multicultural policy forced on countries such as the UK, Germany, France etc... Video below. Demo in Germany three days ago. Merkel's policy is to allow hundreds of thousands of unknowns from a part of the world in which ISIS has been fighting. The EU have put out a statement that 4 out of 5 that's 80% of "migrants" are not Syrians. - I bet this morning a few people feel very silly. 80% of those in Europe are not refugees. And Merkel is making Germany safer. Yes right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NrXIe0wvp4

Merkel seems intent on destroying Germany and taking as much of Europe with her as she can. She's doing ISIS and other islamists a huge favor, as they are the only ones that are going to benefit from this violent influx of migrants. Well, done, Chancellor...

[bmk1245]

I am so sorry we can’t really help. We’re pretty much in need of help ourselves.

But I guarantee you we will do our best at least not to make it any harder for the migrants.

So... How many of them asked asylum in Croatia? None? Or just few? And what that means? Those few are true asylum seekers, and the rest just "spitting" in your face... "Stay here?! Not in this $#!+hole! We want Germany! We want Sweden!"...

[stevewinn]

Merkel seems intent on destroying Germany and taking as much of Europe with her as she can. She's doing ISIS and other islamists a huge favor, as they are the only ones that are going to benefit from this violent influx of migrants. Well, done, Chancellor...

It seems to be a old German leadership trait*, A book i read a while ago, All Hell let Loose, Highlights the relationship between Adolf Hitler and Arab Moslems. which then got me interested in another book by Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich which then led to another book called Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler. Its pretty clear that Adolf Hitler was fond of the Moslem religion. in Albert Speers book i'll quote, What he said, and relationship with the Moslem faith.

In reference to the Battle of Tours in the year 732, the Islamic invasion of Gaul.The Germanic Leader who beat the Arabs, Hitler makes reference to how he'd wished Charles Martel would've been defeated, allowing a Arab victory.

"Mohammedan" if the Berbers and Arabs had won the Battle of Tours in the 8th Century AD, and that the Germans would have become heirs to "a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and in subjugating all nations to that faith. Such a creed was perfectly suited to the German temperament."Speer then presents Hitler's claims on this subject:

Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamised Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire

So found of Islam Hitler even ordered the creation of a Islamic SS Division.

Muslim members of the Waffen-SS at prayer during their training in Germany, 1943

*Im not saying this is the view of the German people today, But maybe their leadership? after all its less than 75 years. Germany biggest immigrant population is Turkish, and now to be followed by Syrians, Both Moslem Nations. Hmmm.

Edited September 19, 2015 by stevewinn

[Helen of Annoy]

So... How many of them asked asylum in Croatia? None? Or just few? And what that means? Those few are true asylum seekers, and the rest just "spitting" in your face... "Stay here?! Not in this $#!+hole! We want Germany! We want Sweden!"...

Probably just few, could be even none until now. I guess some will ask, some others will have to, since they'll be returned from Austria, for example, since they were written down as those who entered EU in Croatia, though we all know they entered in Greece first. Unless they flew from ME to Serbia, on magic carpets, perhaps.

We have our asylum seekers from before. They were in the asylum seekers' centre, that happens to have about 4 metre high walls with barbed wire and mandatory Croatian language courses. So our asylum seekers were cursing in good Croatian when this migrant wave came and they were to move out their centre so we can put migrants in.

In all this sorrow and pain you simply have to laugh at such morbid little funny moments.

I have no idea where we put our asylum seekers in the end... I'm not worried, in the worst case they'll escape to Germany and will be returned to us. It would be a shame to let their language education go to waste.

I don't feel like any of migrants are spitting in my face. They are very grateful to both our civilians and officers who are helping them. Of course they don't want to stay here, we can't offer much, we're full of our own poverty-stricken people who too would gladly work in Germany but it's not as easy as it was during 1960-1990s. Not to digress.

It's 21,000 now and about 120 enters every hour, with 10,000 already out to Slovenia and Hungary. How many more, depends on Greece, that depends on Turkey, that depends on situation in their refugee camps, that depends on situation in Syria and Iraq, that depends on you know who. For how long, that depends on higher power.

@steve

Oh, steve, these are Bosnians. They're just ordinary Europeans, who happen to be of Muslim faith.

It's outright bizarre to accuse Merkel of starting the Fourth Reich, based on her lack of racism.

[Pip UK]

Hungary's armoured vehicles sent to the border after Croatia sends bus-loads of refugees and migrants.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/hungary-sends-tanks-secure-croatia-6477601

Hungary certainly aren't messing about are they?

[Helen of Annoy]

Which one of you poor hysterics just made a second account?

Hungary is accepting migrants at this moment.

If they feel like taking their armour for a spin, that's truly their problem. It's not like they can start a war (without damn serious consequences). They also promised they'll vote against Croatia entering Schengen zone and the next thing is probably threatening with giving us an evil eye or something. Yawn.

edit: By the way, Croatian army moved too. But in useful way. They set up tents in Tovarnik, where migrants enter the country. They will also aid distribution and transport if it becomes necessary.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[Thorvir]

It seems to be a old German leadership trait*, A book i read a while ago, All Hell let Loose, Highlights the relationship between Adolf Hitler and Arab Moslems. which then got me interested in another book by Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich which then led to another book called Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler. Its pretty clear that Adolf Hitler was fond of the Moslem religion. in Albert Speers book i'll quote, What he said, and relationship with the Moslem faith.

In reference to the Battle of Tours in the year 732, the Islamic invasion of Gaul.The Germanic Leader who beat the Arabs, Hitler makes reference to how he'd wished Charles Martel would've been defeated, allowing a Arab victory.

"Mohammedan" if the Berbers and Arabs had won the Battle of Tours in the 8th Century AD, and that the Germans would have become heirs to "a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and in subjugating all nations to that faith. Such a creed was perfectly suited to the German temperament."Speer then presents Hitler's claims on this subject:

Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamised Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire

So found of Islam Hitler even ordered the creation of a Islamic SS Division.

Muslim members of the Waffen-SS at prayer during their training in Germany, 1943

*Im not saying this is the view of the German people today, But maybe their leadership? after all its less than 75 years. Germany biggest immigrant population is Turkish, and now to be followed by Syrians, Both Moslem Nations. Hmmm.

I so didn't want to be the first person to invoke Godwin's Law, and didn't want to take this into a specific islam thing...but now that the can's been opened...

Merkel does seem to be paralleling some aspects of Germany in the 30s, though her means might be different, the ends will end up being the same. In her efforts to continue German guilt for Nazi atrocities, she's allying herself with factions--intentionally or not--that want just as much death and destruction caused. This could lead to a new "reich" (and I said could, knee-jerkers) where instead of the swastika, it's the crescent moon being used as a symbol of terror and oppression in Europe (like it's been used in the ME for centuries now). All the while native Germans are reduced to the oppressed racial minority, all because one German Chancellor decided that her desires were more important than those of common decency and those of her fellow Germans. And that's where the parallel comes from.

Hungary's armoured vehicles sent to the border after Croatia sends bus-loads of refugees and migrants.

http://www.mirror.co...croatia-6477601

Hungary certainly aren't messing about are they?

And they shouldn't be.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[Helen of Annoy]

I'd laugh if it wasn't in such tragic context... oh, all right, I am laughing.

Closet fascists are defending open fascist's sadistic methods by accusing sane people of recreating Reich through showing mercy towards other humans who happen to be of bit darker skin and different religion.

Yeah. Right.

Heil Orban, let me drown a Syrian in Danube to prove I'm not Nazi.

You're idiots.

Mods, please leave this undeleted. It's not an insult, it's a diagnosis.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Helen of Annoy