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Croatia closes border crossings with Serbia


bubblykiss

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Well... If asylum seekers. escaping grave dangers, consider your peaceful country as not worthy to stay, that fits "spit in the face", IMHO.

Yeah, well, you see... I don't know how to break it out for you gently... but I still don't feel offended.

These poor folks are waving as they leave, shouting 'Hvala!' (Thanks), leaving 'hvala Hrvatska' (thank you Croatia) notes, some are even helping pick up the garbage before they leave camps... They came to us bewildered with treatment they had elsewhere and were literally shocked when no one spit on them here.

So let's not insist on offendedness, that's fanatical islamist hobby anyway. Let's do something very European and be friendly. Because we are confident enough to do so. God knows we have our ugly side too, but it's never wise to rush it. It will show if and when it's time for it. It is not that time today.

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Thing is, without islam, there would be no ISIS. Oh I agree that there are plenty of "radical" christian movements, I just don't see them currently making war on their neighbors using religion as the reason, raping and stoning women for transgressions, beheading prisoners and putting the videos up on youtube....

you seem to have only one youtube channel .. i can show you a few youtube videos how people had been treated in the past i hope you can recall them with certain soldiers !!!! you speak only half the truth or however it suits you . without islam no isis ? how do you know that ???

Wait...now it's the host country's fault? OMG...

is it any wonder that some of these people feel secluded . in every country i have seen most of those people are treated as second class citizens

That would be acceptable, however, that's not what appears to be happening. Oh, and don't think that I fear anything. I do not. I am concerned and I am wary. Big difference.

you dont fear anything ??? here we go again with the high and mighty behavior . we all fear ....what is your biggest concern ?

Wait, so you admit that "no self-respecting UK native would ever venture into the areas where these things were built...." yet you say it's not an issue? You're can't have it both ways....

how you twist :no:

I cannot fathom that at this time. I'm going to have to go cook up some bacon now to make me feel better...

i hope you are not a christian , because in the bible it say dont eat pork !!!!!!!! nah , man ...eat away to make a big and strong to carry that wooden sword ah but you changed your avatar well...then to wave the flag :tu:

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Thing is, without islam, there would be no ISIS. Oh I agree that there are plenty of "radical" christian movements, I just don't see them currently making war on their neighbors using religion as the reason, raping and stoning women for transgressions, beheading prisoners and putting the videos up on youtube....

Sure okay No Islam, no ISIS. But ISIS is not representative of 99.9% of Islam, and most of those converts have undergone some very sinister and well targeted brainwashing. ISIS were not created out of some Islamic ideology, they are a construct of the Political arena in the Middle East, and use Islam as a front. Maybe, those at the top of ISIS genuinely believe their God has commanded them to take their current course of action I don't know, but I suspect it is more likely that someones winky is a bit too small.

Honestly though, I think laying the blame at Islam's feet is the wrong way to go, you could just as easily blame Christianity, as many of the Islamic beliefs are extensions of the Christian faith, and by matter of course ultimately lay the blame at the Grandaddy of monotheism, Judaism, from which both Christianity and Islam got their basis.

I am no in anyway denying that ISIS are a problem, or that they carry out their terrible business in the name of Islam, just that Islam itself is not responsible for their existence.

Wait...now it's the host country's fault? OMG...

Well there is no Oh My God about it, and no denying my logic. People do genuinely go out of their way to avoid these areas. I am from a White Middle class background, and freely admit that if I didn't work in this particular area, I likely would never have set foot there, which with hindsight would have been a tragedy, but there is a real fear amongst certain population groups, with talk of no go areas and instant muggings and assaults. It's all rubbish, urban myths perpetuated by ignorance and misunderstanding and in no small part by the baby boomer generation who saw a wave of immigration on a scale much larger than the current one, ignorance breeds ignorance.

I'm not blaming 'the country' there's no laws that encourage ignorance of this kind, just short sighted individuals within the population.

That would be acceptable, however, that's not what appears to be happening. Oh, and don't think that I fear anything. I do not. I am concerned and I am wary. Big difference.

So what is happening then? Bearing in mind we are/were discussing the religious attitudes of migrants from the Middle East trying to get into Europe. Most of whom are still in transit so have not yet had the opportunity to demonstrate their amazing preaching powers and incredible Mosque building abilities. And this is my point, massive assumptions are being made based on what? I'll tell you what it's not, and that's a clear understanding of the vast majority of Muslim communities.

Wait, so you admit that "no self-respecting UK native would ever venture into the areas where these things were built...." yet you say it's not an issue? You're can't have it both ways....

Yeah, sarcasm not coming across too well there. That self respecting UK native is one of the ignorant types mentioned above, no contradictions going on.

I cannot fathom that at this time. I'm going to have to go cook up some bacon now to make me feel better...

Aaah if only ISIS would do that, I am a firm believer that Bacon could save the world, clearly a gift from above.

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you could just as easily blame Christianity...

I could, but that would be inaccurate.

...as many of the Islamic beliefs are extensions of the Christian faith, and by matter of course ultimately lay the blame at the Grandaddy of monotheism, Judaism, from which both Christianity and Islam got their basis.

Sure, but there were religions before Judaism as well, why stop there? I'd much prefer to blame the current problem, as it's addressable (unless you have a time machine?)

I am no in anyway denying that ISIS are a problem, or that they carry out their terrible business in the name of Islam, just that Islam itself is not responsible for their existence.

Well, it is. They are enacting the base form of islam a dictated from the beginning. Change islam, change the message, change their attitudes. Christianity reformed, what's wrong with islam changing for the better as well?

Well there is no Oh My God about it, and no denying my logic.

But that's what you're doing. I like these discussions from time to time, but it just gets infuriating when the opposing side is just so wrong and out of touch and in complete denial.

I'm not blaming 'the country' there's no laws that encourage ignorance of this kind, just short sighted individuals within the population.

That's just human nature. Just like it's human nature to take islam too seriously and turn it into a cult of death and destruction. Religion should be a hobby, not a policy.

So what is happening then? Bearing in mind we are/were discussing the religious attitudes of migrants from the Middle East trying to get into Europe. Most of whom are still in transit so have not yet had the opportunity to demonstrate their amazing preaching powers and incredible Mosque building abilities.

And, hopefully, they won't be given the chance.

And this is my point, massive assumptions are being made based on what? I'll tell you what it's not, and that's a clear understanding of the vast majority of Muslim communities.

You mean the vast minority of muslim communities. Your experiences don't represent the vast majority. And I'm only speaking as to what is actually happening. Facts...they can't be denied.

Aaah if only ISIS would do that, I am a firm believer that Bacon could save the world, clearly a gift from above.

Seems to me that the worst peoples in the world are the ones that don't enjoy bacon. Bacon must have some sort of calming effect on potential fanatics...or maybe it just makes them too fat to carry out jihad.

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No Islam, no ISIS. So what? People like that would just find another excuse and the result would be exactly the same.

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No Islam, no ISIS. So what? People like that would just find another excuse and the result would be exactly the same.

Agreed, but that's not the point. ISIS would not exist without islam. Maybe someone like Cobra or Hydra or Specter would take their place.

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My nationality has nothing to do with that. Try again.

Ooh! A little combative, aren't you?

I was merely pointing out something you may not be aware of. As you are, good for you.

But it might be worth considering that the testimony of someone that actually lives there carries some weight.

Edited by Arbenol
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Agreed, but that's not the point. ISIS would not exist without islam. Maybe someone like Cobra or Hydra or Specter would take their place.

ISIS would not exist without the West either. The group expanded amid rebel groups in Syria and is a product of 2003 Iraq.

Edited by Phenix20
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Ooh! A little combative, aren't you?

I was merely pointing out something you may not be aware of. As you are, good for you.

Oh boy, here we go again with this kind of crap. /rollseyesindisdain

So I guess you are another one of those posters that know my attitude simply by reading text on a screen. Must be nice to have those sort of magical powers.

You made a claim about me based on my nationality, you were wrong, and I called you on it. It's that simple. Learn to live with it.

But it might be worth considering that the testimony of someone that actually lives there carries some weight.

It doesn't. Some of these posts are opinions and some are just simple regurgitation of the facts. Who you are, where you are from, and whatever experiences you have had means nothing at this point about the subject matter of this thread.

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Oh boy, here we go again with this kind of crap. /rollseyesindisdain

So I guess you are another one of those posters that know my attitude simply by reading text on a screen. Must be nice to have those sort of magical powers.

You made a claim about me based on my nationality, you were wrong, and I called you on it. It's that simple. Learn to live with it.

It doesn't. Some of these posts are opinions and some are just simple regurgitation of the facts. Who you are, where you are from, and whatever experiences you have had means nothing at this point about the subject matter of this thread.

Wind your neck in.

I made no claim based on your nationality. I can't control how you choose to read others' words.

Of course personal testomony matters. Someone living in a truly multicultural community and sharing their experiences of that is perfectly vaild. Others may have completely different and negative experiences which are equally valid.

I'd rather learn something from that kind of personal account than read pages of opinionated ignorance someone in 'Whitesville'.

What sources lead you to this conclusion?

Just don't pretend that your example is representative of the rest of the world.

Is it personal experience?

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Yeah, well, you see... I don't know how to break it out for you gently... but I still don't feel offended.

These poor folks are waving as they leave, shouting 'Hvala!' (Thanks), leaving 'hvala Hrvatska' (thank you Croatia) notes, some are even helping pick up the garbage before they leave camps... They came to us bewildered with treatment they had elsewhere and were literally shocked when no one spit on them here.

[...]

Just wait for their "gratefulness", when few hundreds of them will be placed in Croatia... Then you'll have $#!+load of complaints...

So far, only one woman with children asked for asylum in Croatia... One (!) out of 26000...

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ISIS would not exist without the West either. The group expanded amid rebel groups in Syria and is a product of 2003 Iraq.

founded in 1999

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Wind your neck in.

...I've overused my facepalm pic, but anything other than a facepalm wouldn't correctly sum up my feeling toward that bit of tripe you've just posted.

I made no claim based on your nationality. I can't control how you choose to read others' words.

O Really?

Being American (I presume), you might not appreciate this but Grey Area is talking about Birmingham. Which, if you are a Daily Mail reader, is one more Muslim away from becoming the "Islamic State of Birmingistan" (they would have to do away with the "ham", naturally).

If it ain't happening in Birmingham, it ain't happening anywhere.

Short attention span? Short term memory loss? Selective memory? Lying? Honest mistake even? Any combination of those?

Of course personal testomony matters. Someone living in a truly multicultural community and sharing their experiences of that is perfectly vaild. Others may have completely different and negative experiences which are equally valid.

I'd rather learn something from that kind of personal account than read pages of opinionated ignorance someone in 'Whitesville'.

Just like in another thread where one poster claimed that since an astronaut was making claims about UFO's, it must be true because he's an astronaut. It was shown to be incorrect. Just because one has "special experience" doesn't mean that their testimony is anything other than just their opinion. And opinion isn't fact.

The other poster I was responding to has personal experience with muslims locally, and they were good experiences. I think that's great, but that has nothing to do with the general overall problem.

What sources lead you to this conclusion?

Common sense. If you would just do some critical thinking about it, you should come to the same conclusion.

Is it personal experience?

Are you not actually reading posts?

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Just wait for their "gratefulness", when few hundreds of them will be placed in Croatia... Then you'll have $#!+load of complaints...

So far, only one woman with children asked for asylum in Croatia... One (!) out of 26000...

We accepted cooperation principle when we joined EU. Few hundred is hard but fair for a country of our size and budget.

Sure, some will complain. Anyone can complain about anything.

Some of the asylum seekers we have from before complain. Some even set their room on fire to show how much they are complaining, for example. But we have laws and their process goes on by these laws, fire brigade dropping by or not.

The West has problems with some newcomers because of positive discrimination. Allow no discrimination, positive or negative, have zero tolerance to radicals and illegal organizations (regardless of how rich is their sponsor) and you'll have order and security.

It reminds me of criminals among Gypsy issue. Not generally Gypsy! Most of them are just ordinary citizens. We have hundreds of oh, so clever criminals who happen to be Gypsy and don't they use their minority status to get away with anything, from theft over drunk driving without license in stolen car to human trafficking.

For a while our authorities applied positive discrimination - requested by talibans of tolerance - and it was unbearable. The law is applied the same for everyone again, because positive discrimination made life harder for everyone except the criminals who misused it.

Then we have Palestinians, Syrians, Lybians, Iranians and so on, from before. Mostly married to locals, all of them model citizens. (If they weren't, they wouldn't be citizens. As simple as that.)

Then we have just plain Croats and you won't believe me, but some of them are such giant *******s I would totally strip them off their citizenship but **** it, we can't choose who we are related to.

Then we have so many mostly never properly identified bodies of illegals trying to cross the borders, drowning in Dunav or Sava rivers. Iraqis, Afghans, who knows who else, trying to reach promised EU lands. We can't say for sure how many drowned, let alone how many sneaked in.

Isn't it kind of more practical, not to mention safer for us, to have these people counted and sheltered in known places, for start?

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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Sure, but there were religions before Judaism as well, why stop there? I'd much prefer to blame the current problem, as it's addressable (unless you have a time machine?)

That's great, lets address the current problem. The problem is Migrants and their physical effect on Europe, economically, logistically and in terms of resources. The problem as we face it is not one of religion. If it were, they would not be leaving Turkey in droves, a safe, relatively fair, Islamic country. So either people are genuinely scared of Muslims, despite having co-existed with Muslim communities settled in Europe, or it is just an excuse to further the anti-migration argument.

Well, it is. They are enacting the base form of islam a dictated from the beginning. Change islam, change the message, change their attitudes. Christianity reformed, what's wrong with islam changing for the better as well?

Because changing Islam is a realistic solution to the current Migration issue. An easier option, and much more realistic, is to change people's attitudes toward Islam and educate them to understand the message. But what is this terrible message Islam offers, that's needs so much reform, and do you think ISIS's attitudes and abuse of Islam would change in the light of such reforms. Of course it won't, because that wouldn't fit their particular brand of terror, they are moulding Islam to suit their needs, not the other way around.

But that's what you're doing. I like these discussions from time to time, but it just gets infuriating when the opposing side is just so wrong and out of touch and in complete denial.

I'm so out of touch because branding an entire faith on the actions of an extremist group is right? I expect to meet adversity when challenging prejudice, but I can assure you, as a professional who lives and works amongst these communities, I am very much in touch.

I am not sure what I am in denial of here? I am not saying that these migrants do not pose a very real problem, they do clearly. I am just saying that the issue of religion is not the driver here, these Migrants are going where the money is on offer, and if they do get into Germany or wherever, the building of a few Mosques and practice of Islam is not the main concern here. In fact it may even be a lot more beneficial if they did build Mosques, because it would be easier to keep track of any radicalisation that could potentially occur.

That's just human nature. Just like it's human nature to take islam too seriously and turn it into a cult of death and destruction. Religion should be a hobby, not a policy.

Okay well religion is never going to be seen as a hobby, but neither is it policy in the UK or Europe. If you have evidence that these Migrants will likely break the law based on their faith then pass it on to the security services.

You mean the vast minority of muslim communities. Your experiences don't represent the vast majority. And I'm only speaking as to what is actually happening. Facts...they can't be denied.

No I mean the vast majority of Muslim communities in the UK, on which my experience is based. What facts are you talking about? As I have already pointed out, the religion side to this argument is all based on conjecture. Until these people find somewhere to settle, all we have are assumptions.

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Grey Area, your experience, which you relayed earlier, with Arabs and Muslims is much different than mine. Here the majority live in nice middle class areas with quite a few well into the upper middle class. Most of the mosques are in some of the best areas and are fairly extravagant. They are extremely well accepted by most everyone.

My surrogate family and best friends of more than thirty years are first and second generation Arabs.

Edited by Michelle
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Grey Area, your experience, which you relayed earlier, with Arabs and Muslims is much different than mine. Here the majority live in nice middle class areas with quite a few well into the upper middle class. Most of the mosques are in some of the best areas and are fairly extravagant. They are extremely well accepted by most everyone.

My surrogate family and best friends of more than thirty years are first and second generation Arabs.

and where would that be ?? can you send me a picture of outside and inside the masjid ... because inside there is no extravagance from outside it may look nice ..pls i would like a photo from inside or a link or a name ...please

Islam prohibits extravagant mosque beautification and decoration

You should avoid extravagance in the furnishings, doors and so on, for Allaah does not love those who are extravagant. Al-Bukhaari entitled a chapter in his Saheeh: “Chapter on the building of mosques; Abu Sa’eed said: The roof of the mosque – i.e., the mosque of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – was made of palm branches.

Edited by YA AMAR
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Croatian police say about 27,000 migrants have entered the country since the surge started several days ago.

Police said Sunday that they are still expecting many more migrants to arrive from Serbia in the coming days. They say authorities are setting up tents for migrants to find shelter from rain and cold.

i guess croatia is on the brink of exhaustion but they made such a big effort ...

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thanx for sharing ... but should it be a dump ? and compared to many other countries it sooo simple build the masjid outside my home is nicer ,but there i like the grass area

It may not be as nice as yours, but it was extravagant in terms of the cost and the bulding materials used.

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Stick them on the Eurostar to the UK.

Lets be honest a majority will end up here one way or the other.

Funny how they are passing through safe countries to claim asylum. Yet again the rules are ignored

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It may not be as nice as yours, but it was extravagant in terms of the cost and the bulding materials used.

but i dont understand what you mean ? what should they have used instead i mean material wise ? its a building . the building should look nice but inside no . chrisitian churches spend much more on outer an interior . you know many people here pray outside when the masjid is full .

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but i dont understand what you mean ? what should they have used instead i mean material wise ? its a building . the building should look nice but inside no . chrisitian churches spend much more on outer an interior . you know many people here pray outside when the masjid is full .

I don't care what Christians do. It isn't in the Muslim doctrine you quoted.

If you are looking for a verbal jousting match with every little comment made you'll have to find someone else to do it with.

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I don't care what Christians do. It isn't in the Muslim doctrine you quoted.

If you are looking for a verbal jousting match with every little comment made you'll have to find someone else to do it with.

it was a genuine question no need to get all bend out of shape .....it wasnt meant as you think i just wanted to know your point ...never mind but please stay respectful i dint mean any harm to you ....forgive me for asking questions

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