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Croatia closes border crossings with Serbia


bubblykiss

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Croatian police say about 27,000 migrants have entered the country since the surge started several days ago.

Police said Sunday that they are still expecting many more migrants to arrive from Serbia in the coming days. They say authorities are setting up tents for migrants to find shelter from rain and cold.

i guess croatia is on the brink of exhaustion but they made such a big effort ...

Army will help if it gets critical, with more tents, organization and stuff army does in natural catastrophe-like situations. Which reminds me, at least the weather is relatively fine.

Hungary set up huge iron gates on one crossing, but they also opened them. Slovenia accepts too, it's going as good as it can under circumstances.

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Army will help if it gets critical, with more tents, organization and stuff army does in natural catastrophe-like situations. Which reminds me, at least the weather is relatively fine.

Hungary set up huge iron gates on one crossing, but they also opened them. Slovenia accepts too, it's going as good as it can under circumstances.

even though i know everything comes with a heavy load but at least this news is a bit of a uplift i am amazed with what they have done and they really made a big effort

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Stick them on the Eurostar to the UK.

Lets be honest a majority will end up here one way or the other.

Funny how they are passing through safe countries to claim asylum. Yet again the rules are ignored

Some will be returned to the country in which they were registered. They should theoretically go back to the EU country they entered first, which is Greece for absolute majority of them, but that would create even worse mess.

So, theoretically, thousands should go back to Croatia, because our authorities did register everyone they could, though it's against our interests (in the autist sense of that word).

Most will probably end up in Germany and a lot in Scandinavia.

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it was a genuine question no need to get all bend out of shape .....it wasnt meant as you think i just wanted to know your point ...never mind but please stay respectful i dint mean any harm to you ....forgive me for asking questions

It sounded like another argumentative question to me. Most adults know the difference in the quality of building materials and how to cut corners. Things like using concrete or tile as apposed to marble or quartz. Using synthetic man made carpet instead of hand woven Persian wool. There are ways to be extravagant without being ostentatious.

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You couldnt make it up. when are people going to realise we in Europe have nothing in common with these people. traditions, ethically, culturally, System of Governance

i am speechless ... you never know who might save your life one day

what a sad statement

You have a point, but so does he. The problem is that since no one can see the future, we have to predicate our decisions on a desire to be cautious with a proven source of violence. To act as though these (80% young men) migrants are all simply fleeing to save their lives is not rational. Granted, though the majority are just looking for a better life, there will be an untold number that will resort to violence when they realize they cannot find it in Europe. If you want to see the probable future where these men men settle look at the ghettos in France, Britain and Sweden.
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Wether you let those immigrants in or not, wether you want to help them or not has nothing to do with Islam and what they believe in, thats something I wanted to clarify.

Personally I reject Islam and Christianity in my point of view it is the same and has the same roots, I also think Islam is part of the problem as well as Christianity is and I am pretty sure that when Christians get a hold of power and the country is in a poor state they will do the same as ISIS, it happened before in history and will propaply happen again. Both Islam and Chrsitianity are a social system a constitution of rules, which stands in direct conflict with law and other social developements, you can interprete it more peacefully or not its up to teh individual, but still there are limits as how you can interprete it and there are core believes which will always stay the same, also it is written and as such it is hard to change, it is more then just faith it is a system as such it is to some extent a threat, but as much as I personally dislike those religions (actually same goes for buddhism and hinduism) everyone has the right to believe what he or she wants to as long as no criminal actions are conducted, so I wont condemn migrants and refugees beforehand, they deserve a chance and they obviously need help and I dont see them as moslems or christians I see them as human beeings and I dont derive their worth from what they believe in. Also as stated in other posts there are many reason as to why we should let them in, Islam is not more or less a threat as Christianity and some other religions are and the whole Islam is so dangerous discussion is ridicolous and is only used to control people and agitate them. If you seriously want to protect western values then let them in and sho the world that equality and humanism are still things which are appreciated in the west.

This is what is being done in Europe. Germany will be the test case - if you need more evidence beyond what is occurring in France, Britain and Sweden. I have a question for you though. How is it justified that one group must take responsibility for another when others of their own heritage will not? It's like demanding that strangers who are not even as well off, take care of your relatives because you don't want to be bothered with them.
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And then, hes a left winger

How would you characterize what is happening then? In my part of the world, family takes care of each other. I am not cold blooded toward these people nor do I hate Muslims. But the evidence is ample that bad things are going to be in store in return for the generosity being shown here. If the 80% were women and children, my attitude would be different.
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How would you characterize what is happening then? In my part of the world, family takes care of each other. I am not cold blooded toward these people nor do I hate Muslims. But the evidence is ample that bad things are going to be in store in return for the generosity being shown here. If the 80% were women and children, my attitude would be different.

I was told this is exactly how these people are taking care of their family: young males go first to find place and means for the rest of the family.

To be honest, this is how my people are doing economic migrations. Someone goes first, family scout if you will, usually the husband, but not necessarily, then the rest. Or the scout sends money home until he or she returns. Though in our case the final plan is always to go back home, as soon as better times come, which never happens.

When we had war refugees, it was the other way around, of course, women and kids leave first, men remain. (Yes, I know, I know... but can we really blame Syrians or Iraqis if they don't want to die if they think their war was lost or not worth fighting?)

Besides, would terrorists send someone to walk across Europe in order to carry out an attack if they have their freaks already nicely settled in the countries they are targeting? It's not practical, it's too uncertain, it has no element of surprise since we all expect Ali Baba and 40 terrorists to show up at the border...

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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You have a point, but so does he. The problem is that since no one can see the future, we have to predicate our decisions on a desire to be cautious with a proven source of violence. To act as though these (80% young men) migrants are all simply fleeing to save their lives is not rational. Granted, though the majority are just looking for a better life, there will be an untold number that will resort to violence when they realize they cannot find it in Europe. If you want to see the probable future where these men men settle look at the ghettos in France, Britain and Sweden.

i agree and very valid what you say ... but what is the solution ? when i read some responses it fears me . even here where i live ...i am afraid we are all afraid here in tunisia for example . isis reached its goal and i think its far from over . if anything else happens we are all screwed . i do understand perfectly but how to solve it ??? i hear people say nuke them but thats not radical ? thats the same exactly the same . i do read reports were people cross over just to have better life thats wrong but on the other side we have to understand the core of the problem and i try to bring it across but no one wants to hear that . they just look at the outer shell and ignore the core . i was stationed in germany i saw what is happening there yet it has always been a divided society ...but how to fix it these people are in limbo i mean look at pictures what should they do ?

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I was told this is exactly how these people are taking care of their family: young males go first to find place and means for the rest of the family.

To be honest, this is how my people are doing economic migrations. Someone goes first, family scout if you will, usually the husband, but not necessarily, then the rest. Or the scout sends money home until he or she returns. Though in our case the final plan is always to go back home, as soon as better times come, which never happens.

When we had war refugees, it was the other way around, of course, women and kids leave first, men remain. (Yes, I know, I know... but can we really blame Syrians or Iraqis if they don't want to die if they think their war was lost or not worth fighting?)

Besides, would terrorists send someone to walk across Europe in order to carry out an attack if they have their freaks already nicely settled in the countries they are targeting? It's not practical, it's too uncertain, it has no element of surprise since we all expect Ali Baba and 40 terrorists to show up at the border...

very well explained thats arab thinking ...

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You have a point, but so does he. The problem is that since no one can see the future, we have to predicate our decisions on a desire to be cautious with a proven source of violence. To act as though these (80% young men) migrants are all simply fleeing to save their lives is not rational. Granted, though the majority are just looking for a better life, there will be an untold number that will resort to violence when they realize they cannot find it in Europe. If you want to see the probable future where these men men settle look at the ghettos in France, Britain and Sweden.

i wish to make a tiny little point maybe even so irrelevant . but when people go on vacation to other countries they have nothing in common either but they show interest in the culture and ethics etc etc people get along despite language barriers when its done out of fun its different but in a situation when people are in need most draw back . my people dont have anything in common with all the tourists but we welcome them despite our differences

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i am sure there will be a big mess ...people will do anything to get money . we are looking at prostitution equals sickness we look at they turn to drug dealers equals more crime they will end up on the streets in slums that is all correct but somehow we must find a way even if it is so small .

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i am almost 80 % positive that many of these young men didnt want to leave but they have to obey the head of the home . here are so many of them and they cry because they want to go home but family send them out to ensure their survival . we most look at this from all angles

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Well the Fun and games are about to start, just watched the EU parliment on the TV, the numbers arriving are that large there isnt enough accommodation Thousands of these Illegals, migrants Refugees, Chancers are going to be housed in Tents. So, let me get this right, they've supposedly come from Tents, UN camps. - to go back into Tents in Europe. - But the truth is the ones we see in Europe haven't been living in tents have they! they are the middle classes, the ones who escaped the tent cities, and have been living in Turkey and its going to be one hell of a shock when they think a their going to be handed keys to a house/flat. and instead handed a few tent poles and pegs. :w00t: With winter fast approaching two months from now is going to very interesting indeed. :ph34r:

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I was told this is exactly how these people are taking care of their family: young males go first to find place and means for the rest of the family.

To be honest, this is how my people are doing economic migrations. Someone goes first, family scout if you will, usually the husband, but not necessarily, then the rest. Or the scout sends money home until he or she returns. Though in our case the final plan is always to go back home, as soon as better times come, which never happens.

When we had war refugees, it was the other way around, of course, women and kids leave first, men remain. (Yes, I know, I know... but can we really blame Syrians or Iraqis if they don't want to die if they think their war was lost or not worth fighting?)

Besides, would terrorists send someone to walk across Europe in order to carry out an attack if they have their freaks already nicely settled in the countries they are targeting? It's not practical, it's too uncertain, it has no element of surprise since we all expect Ali Baba and 40 terrorists to show up at the border...

Helen if previous migrants had shown an ability to assimilate I would have no problem at all with the movement of war refugees into the US, for example. The bottom line is that THIS culture does NOT assimilate. I say it again, I do NOT hate Muslims and I hope my country will help financially to succour these poor people in their need but allowing millions of people into a country whose culture they have no real interest in actually emulating is a bridge too far. What of the rights of those who built that nation? It really is like inviting neighbors in because their house burned down, then having them dictate to you how you should behave in your own home. This is not speculation, it has been consistently shown to be the pattern in all the countries to which Muslims emigrate. Sure, not every single Muslim refuses to assimilate but the great majority do and therein lies the problem. As to ISIS using this stream of Muslims to infiltrate, they are doing quite nicely with indigenous citizens without need for a Trojan horse but the recruitment will be far easier with young men who find themselves economically frustrated and living in an alien culture that goes against their basic moral upbringing. The answer to this problem lies in removing the threat to them in their own land and no one seems to be advocating that at all. If ISIS moves into Jordan or Lebanon is the West to absorb those unfortunates as well? This is not a black and white issue of being heartless toward refugees if one does not welcome them with no thought of the future.
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Helen if previous migrants had shown an ability to assimilate I would have no problem at all with the movement of war refugees into the US, for example. The bottom line is that THIS culture does NOT assimilate. I say it again, I do NOT hate Muslims and I hope my country will help financially to succour these poor people in their need but allowing millions of people into a country whose culture they have no real interest in actually emulating is a bridge too far. What of the rights of those who built that nation? It really is like inviting neighbors in because their house burned down, then having them dictate to you how you should behave in your own home. This is not speculation, it has been consistently shown to be the pattern in all the countries to which Muslims emigrate. Sure, not every single Muslim refuses to assimilate but the great majority do and therein lies the problem. As to ISIS using this stream of Muslims to infiltrate, they are doing quite nicely with indigenous citizens without need for a Trojan horse but the recruitment will be far easier with young men who find themselves economically frustrated and living in an alien culture that goes against their basic moral upbringing. The answer to this problem lies in removing the threat to them in their own land and no one seems to be advocating that at all. If ISIS moves into Jordan or Lebanon is the West to absorb those unfortunates as well? This is not a black and white issue of being heartless toward refugees if one does not welcome them with no thought of the future.

This should be copied and pasted in to every migrant thread going right now. Very well said. This isn't like Columbus and the Natives, this isn't "AMERICA WAS STARTED BY IMMIGRANTS!! XD", this is something different altogether. I wish everyone would stop pretending like major religious and cultural differences aren't a factor in mass immigration

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i wish to make a tiny little point maybe even so irrelevant . but when people go on vacation to other countries they have nothing in common either but they show interest in the culture and ethics etc etc people get along despite language barriers when its done out of fun its different but in a situation when people are in need most draw back . my people dont have anything in common with all the tourists but we welcome them despite our differences

If they moved into your home and wanted to view sexually explicit TV or porn on the computer, eat things you consider unclean and demand that you dress as they do, would you still welcome them? These people coming to Germany and Eastern European countries are coming there to LIVE. If Muslims had a history of becoming part of the culture rather than fighting against it then there would be far fewer people railing against them. Mind you, I am not saying that to be welcome in the West, Muslims must give up their faith. I AM saying they must stop demanding that others follow their faith as well.
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Short attention span? Short term memory loss? Selective memory? Lying? Honest mistake even? Any combination of those?

You missed one.

You misunderstood what I wrote.

I could have been more general and wrote "Being not from the UK...." but you freely identify that you're American. If you were Brazilian I could I have written "being from Brazil...."

The point is, you chose how you read it and inferred criticism where none was implied.

As the "Lord of Critical Thinking" I thought you might apply some before jumping to erroneous conclusions. You might want to consider that in future.

Anyway I have no wish to derail this thread discussing your hypersensitivity, so I won't respond to you further.

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You missed one.

You misunderstood what I wrote.

Only if you accidentally, or intentionally, led me to misunderstand. Otherwise, I understood exactly what you typed. Word for word. And called you out on it.

I could have been more general and wrote "Being not from the UK...."

And that wouldn't have changed a thing, because you're still using my "not being from the UK" as if it mattered in the discussion. Which it does not.

...but you freely identify that you're American.

Which was brought up by you, not me, as some sort of "ruler" to judge how I should act:

Being American (I presume),

If you were Brazilian I could I have written "being from Brazil...."

Without the "I presume"? And what difference would that have made? You still would have been in the wrong.

The point is, you chose how you read it and inferred criticism where none was implied.

Though your intention was to imply, simply from your words and the posts afterward, that because I was from X country, I wasn't qualified in my opinion, and now you're backing down and trying to pretend things didn't happen.

As the "Lord of Critical Thinking" I thought you might apply some before jumping to erroneous conclusions.

Ah, here we go again with the ad hominens. Attack the messenger, not the message...

You might want to consider that in future.

I always do. And, as a fair warning to you, you might want to stop jumping to conclusions about posters based on the country they are from.

Anyway I have no wish to derail this thread discussing your hypersensitivity, so I won't respond to you further.

Again with that crap.

And I agree, no need to respond anymore. I called you out on some BS, you failed to back it up, now you're pretending you didn't post what you did, and YET AGAIN, assuming my attitude, magically, through the internet.

Maybe it's just because you're from New Zealand...but, no, I know a couple people from New Zealand and they're solid thinkers with open minds that don't jump to unsubstantiated conclusions based on a person's place of origin. So I'll just rule that out right here and now and just assume you misspoke and you have no idea how to extract yourself from it. Don't worry about it, it is a minor thing on these forums, and I had completely forgotten about it until you posted and brought it up all over again--perhaps you missed the attention? No, I won't assume that either. I'll just leave it as it is and try to move on from it and take your word that you won't bring it up yet again.

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If they moved into your home and wanted to view sexually explicit TV or porn on the computer, eat things you consider unclean and demand that you dress as they do, would you still welcome them? These people coming to Germany and Eastern European countries are coming there to LIVE. If Muslims had a history of becoming part of the culture rather than fighting against it then there would be far fewer people railing against them. Mind you, I am not saying that to be welcome in the West, Muslims must give up their faith. I AM saying they must stop demanding that others follow their faith as well.

The issue is you want them too much to be like you. So they become aliens. But the foundation of Western values and liberal democracy stems form the fact that people are granted the rights to believe in whatever religion they choose and actually express their opinions, point of views, ideologies ect. as long as they abide by the laws. By these same laws, there are no reason why a Muslim community should be excluded from participating in the national conversation and political debates of the Western countries they live. Not that I agree with incorporating sharia laws into Canada's legal code for instance, but it is not my place to deny someone from advocating it. I choose to live a free country where people of all cultures who contribute to the society have the right to make their voices heard.

Edited by Phenix20
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This should be copied and pasted in to every migrant thread going right now. Very well said. This isn't like Columbus and the Natives, this isn't "AMERICA WAS STARTED BY IMMIGRANTS!! XD", this is something different altogether. I wish everyone would stop pretending like major religious and cultural differences aren't a factor in mass immigration

Is that because the Europeans assimilated so well with the native Americans who were already there?

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Maybe it's just because you're from New Zealand...but, no, I know a couple people from New Zealand and they're solid thinkers with open minds that don't jump to unsubstantiated conclusions based on a person's place of origin. So I'll just rule that out right here and now and just assume you misspoke and you have no idea how to extract yourself from it. Don't worry about it, it is a minor thing on these forums, and I had completely forgotten about it until you posted and brought it up all over again--perhaps you missed the attention? No, I won't assume that either. I'll just leave it as it is and try to move on from it and take your word that you won't bring it up yet again.

What the heck does nationality have to do with reasoning ability?

That approach simply leads to stereotyping.

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Well the Fun and games are about to start, just watched the EU parliment on the TV, the numbers arriving are that large there isnt enough accommodation Thousands of these Illegals, migrants Refugees, Chancers are going to be housed in Tents. So, let me get this right, they've supposedly come from Tents, UN camps. - to go back into Tents in Europe. - But the truth is the ones we see in Europe haven't been living in tents have they! they are the middle classes, the ones who escaped the tent cities, and have been living in Turkey and its going to be one hell of a shock when they think a their going to be handed keys to a house/flat. and instead handed a few tent poles and pegs. :w00t: With winter fast approaching two months from now is going to very interesting indeed. :ph34r:

o I see you find it enjoying when people live in tents, you propaply think they deserve the worst I mean how could they only flee and how dare them that they want a btter life with more opportunities sarcasm off.

Edited by hellwyr
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If they moved into your home and wanted to view sexually explicit TV or porn on the computer, eat things you consider unclean and demand that you dress as they do, would you still welcome them? These people coming to Germany and Eastern European countries are coming there to LIVE. If Muslims had a history of becoming part of the culture rather than fighting against it then there would be far fewer people railing against them. Mind you, I am not saying that to be welcome in the West, Muslims must give up their faith. I AM saying they must stop demanding that others follow their faith as well.

the west has always tried to push into other countries to change things just because they did not like it or because of Oil ... look how they keep robbing the worlds natural resources . if you live in america you need to worry first what the government is doing to its own people first before anyone points any finger . Use google ... quite frankly i get tired and exhausted about this issue . All those people that speak against the middle east ( and i never said it doesnt have bad things going on ) need to realize what their countries are doing to others . Rape , blundering , hate , wars etc etc no country is holier than thou but its always easy to shift and blame to others or point out other peoples flaws to hide theirs . there is rape happening in ur country too people murder people every day . USA proclaimed itself to be the police of the world . well , america is even taking the rights of its own people slowly but surely . so all this finger pointing leads nowhere . it is what it is . what i do find strange that mostly the Arabs want to be like you they want to be like the west but the west will always label them . same with germany i heard it many times the Nazi blame game and the propaganda that america is doing while i lived there you see hitler on all the history channels 24/7 to make sure its kept alive and never forgotten . germany will always be labeled too . the only country that is allowed to be patriotic is america but when others wish to show their pride in their country they get scrutinized . America needs to see what they have done ... in iraq for example ... brush infront of your own doors and show what america is doing to other countries where they have no business in . you wanted democracy for those countries ???? well, there you have it - now each one of you can teach them now what democracy is .you failed to do so when you invaded their countries now you can teach them invading your country .talking about doing the right thing right in front of your doorstep ... good luck ...

Edited by Still Waters
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