Croatia closes border crossings with Serbia

[141]

thats what i call compassion ....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34321105

[141]

croatia is doing an outstanding job

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34311496

[Helen of Annoy]

It could be better, but our authorities and many volunteers are trying to help.

Many Croats know first-hand what it feels like to be a refugee or a migrant.

Mercy and hospitality are in our tradition, they are essential parts of our culture. No politics or fear could change our culture before, so it won't change it today. We are keeping our heritage alive though helping refugees stay alive.

So all of you, Europeans and for some odd reason Americans, who demanded in this thread that we let these people drop dead on our doorstep, you are actually asking me to renounce my cultural identity, European to the bone. No Syrian demanded that yet. You did. You, with your fears and complexes, are worse danger for Europe than these people who certainly wouldn't risk their lives if they had any hope at home.

Someone told you they are invaders. Someone told you they are coming to subjugate you. Well, **** you if you can be subjugated by a handfull of exhausted folks. Yes, handful, compared to EU population.

But someone also told you 100 million will come. Sure. Whole ME will come, Africa too, because they want to be poor in colder climate.

[141]

It could be better, but our authorities and many volunteers are trying to help.

Many Croats know first-hand what it feels like to be a refugee or a migrant.

Mercy and hospitality are in our tradition, they are essential parts of our culture. No politics or fear could change our culture before, so it won't change it today. We are keeping our heritage alive though helping refugees stay alive.

So all of you, Europeans and for some odd reason Americans, who demanded in this thread that we let these people drop dead on our doorstep, you are actually asking me to renounce my cultural identity, European to the bone. No Syrian demanded that yet. You did. You, with your fears and complexes, are worse danger for Europe than these people who certainly wouldn't risk their lives if they had any hope at home.

Someone told you they are invaders. Someone told you they are coming to subjugate you. Well, **** you if you can be subjugated by a handfull of exhausted folks. Yes, handful, compared to EU population.

But someone also told you 100 million will come. Sure. Whole ME will come, Africa too, because they want to be poor in colder climate.

through my brother in law i learned much about croatia and he has told me so many stories . They are very proud people he is also very patriotic but now i really do understand why . i am glad i came across these videos as its prove how people in hard times bring up massive strength . i can only say incredible but also keeping in the back of my mind what what lies ahead for europe . the future will not look so bright .

[Helen of Annoy]

through my brother in law i learned much about croatia and he has told me so many stories . They are very proud people he is also very patriotic but now i really do understand why . i am glad i came across these videos as its prove how people in hard times bring up massive strength . i can only say incredible but also keeping in the back of my mind what what lies ahead for europe . the future will not look so bright .

Bright or not, it’s up to us.

Crisis may divide us further, or make us truly start cooperating.

It would be helpful if certain politicians would stop brainwashing more simple among us into believing cooperation is in some magical way damaging national sovereignty.

[odas]

The main hubb for bosnian refugees during the war was Croatia. Many stayed there because they had relatives. Many more kept on going further north again because they had relatives who lived and worked there already. But it would have been impossible if it was not for Croatia and the Croatian help even though they themself had to cope with their own refugees from areas under serbian occupation. And then someone from a western country who has no clue about fleeing for your life has the guts to critisize Croatia? As Helen mentioned already even Bosnia tries to help as much as they can. People are taken in in private homes by other families. Not much but any little bit helps.

[Helen of Annoy]

Croatian Interior Minister Ostojic keeps pointing out that a humanitarian corridor for migrants should be established, because this is torture for migrants first, of course, but also for the countries that are trying to cope with this situation.

The only real solution of migrant issue is, naturally, in the countries from which migrants come, but since it'll take an act of god to fix ME, Afghanistan, Africa and so on, we must work together or the usual traffic (therefore the business too) will break down due to isolationist dellusions of some local chauvinists.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Uh oh not looking good for serbia and croatia

[Helen of Annoy]

Uh oh not looking good for serbia and croatia

Why do you think so?

It's heartbreaking to see so many refugees in the same East Croatian roads where our refugees were fleeing Serbian aggressors.

Today, buses for migrants were brought in front of Vukovar Memorial Cemetery, no less. It gives me goosebumps.

So it's heartbreaking, but also reminds me of much worse situation we survived.

If we could organize defence and take care of refugees from nothing, under aggression, we certainly can organize transit in peace.

How good it looks for Serbia, I don't know. Maybe Orban knows. I guess he has friends who could divine it for him.

[stevewinn]

Why do you think so?

It's heartbreaking to see so many refugees in the same East Croatian roads where our refugees were fleeing Serbian aggressors.

Today, buses for migrants were brought in front of Vukovar Memorial Cemetery, no less. It gives me goosebumps.

So it's heartbreaking, but also reminds me of much worse situation we survived.

If we could organize defence and take care of refugees from nothing, under aggression, we certainly can organize transit in peace.

How good it looks for Serbia, I don't know. Maybe Orban knows. I guess he has friends who could divine it for him.

What is actually happening in Croatia, are they registering the illegal migrants to determine who are refugees? or just allowing them to pass through the country as they head North? with the EU stating 80% of those in Europe are not refugees is the Croatian authorities deporting anyone? or is it just utter chaos.

[Helen of Annoy]

What is actually happening in Croatia, are they registering the illegal migrants to determine who are refugees? or just allowing them to pass through the country as they head North? with the EU stating 80% of those in Europe are not refugees is the Croatian authorities deporting anyone? or is it just utter chaos.

The authorities are trying to register everyone. A number of migrants certainly sneak through, but the majority is being registered. Of course, some of these people do not have any convincing identification (many Afghans) while others who could have them claim they don't (South European Gypsy posing as Afghans). So there were some deportings, of clearly neighbouring freeloaders.

Migrants are taken to temporary facilities where they can take care of their personal hygiene first, then they are given brief medical examination. No serious contagious diseases yet. Anyone actually sick or too weak receives further proper care.

Then they are taken to shelters, tents, some to private houses (of volunteers only). No incidents with local population. Occasional clashes among migrants, because they are nervous and tired. No serious injuries yet.

There they wait for transport. Women, children, disabled board first, able men second. Only instance of use of pepper spray was today, when few thugs started pushing women with kids to get to the bus first. Two children were close to the spray and they received medical care immediately.

It is not easy or pleasant, but migrants respond well to dignified approach - our officers and volunteers are telling migrants where they are, what they can expect, it calms people down and prevents stampedes. Language is a problem, many refugees don't speak any English (of course no one speaks Slavic languages) so Arab-speaking volunteers are very valuable.

Now, who is refugee and who is economic migrant... I don't think it's easy to define. Would you say an Afghan or Lybian are not refugees? It's not exactly safe in their homelands.

But that is not as important as the backgroud of this sudden, spontaneous mass migration. It will surface soon, I'm not an idiot to draw attention on myself by making accidentally accurate speculations.

[Wickian]

Serbia bans Croatian goods as ties hit low over migrants

OPATOVAC, Croatia/BELGRADE (Reuters) - Serbia banned Croatian cargo traffic and goods on Wednesday in a bitter row over the flow of migrants across their joint border, plunging relations to their lowest ebb since the overthrow of late Serbian strongman Slobodan Milosevic in 2000.

Serbia imposed the embargo in retaliation for border restrictions levied by European Union member Croatia, which has hit out at its eastern neighbor for directing the flow of migrants through the Balkan peninsula over their joint border.

And the escalation continues.

[bmk1245]

[...]

It is not easy or pleasant, but migrants respond well to dignified approach - our officers and volunteers are telling migrants where they are, what they can expect, it calms people down and prevents stampedes. Language is a problem, many refugees don't speak any English (of course no one speaks Slavic languages) so Arab-speaking volunteers are very valuable.

[...]

Yeah, but there are other stories about refugees... For example, one Ukrainian woman (knowing Arabic, as she claims) happened to be in the train, which was boarded by refugees in Budapest, and she told about mockery, verbal and physical abuse she (and her fellow travellers) experienced (woman's story, in Ukrainian):

Her last words from video: "... you have to learn Arabic, and understand what they <refugees> are talking about, how they mock you, and how they spit behind your back".

It might have been isolated incident, nevertheless...

[stevewinn]

Uh oh not looking good for serbia and croatia

It seems you was ahead of the curve. It seems the old tensions of the past are being displayed between the two as pressure from the migrant crisis causes old divisions to emerge.

[Helen of Annoy]

And the escalation continues.

If you read the whole article, you’ll notice this is the main point:

Croatian Prime Minister Zoran Milanovic, in Brussels at a summit of EU leaders on the migration crisis, had already indicated he would not bow to the Serbian deadline.

“Until I see the Budapest-Belgrade axis stop burdening Croatia with refugees, I will remain convinced that they are doing something behind our back,” he told reporters.

“I will remain so convinced until Serbia starts sending people to Hungary too, and not just to Croatia.”

Croatian government was in contact with both Hungarian and Serbian government.

Croatian suggestions are very simple and I believe very realistic: let’s work together, let’s constantly exchange information and adjust plans, do not throw all those migrant masses at our border, let’s not blackmail each other with migrants. Not just because they're people too, do not do that because no one will profit from that in the end.

The answer were the ridiculous wall at Hungarian border and embargo on Serbian side.

Fine.

It’s not like Croatia has any business in Serbia, worth mentioning. Except one or two guys who got unexplainably rich during ‘privatizacija’ (transformation from socialist into capitalist economy), so this is actually great side of this bad situation.

So Croatia had banned Serbian traffic too. Serbian citizens may cross the border, but not in a car with Serbian licence plates. Croatia wanted to exceptionally allow goods with short expiry date (dairy and such) enter from Serbia, so their producers don’t suffer losses, but Serbian authorities didn’t agree, they – as usual – want it all as they please.

Well, it won’t be as they please, it will be as it should be. Fair and efficient.

Croatia also appealed both Hungary and Serbia to organize shelters and aid for the migrants in their lands, because the anarchy – especially in Serbia – makes this situation unnecessary dangerous and inhumane.

Yeah, but there are other stories about refugees... For example, one Ukrainian woman (knowing Arabic, as she claims) happened to be in the train, which was boarded by refugees in Budapest, and she told about mockery, verbal and physical abuse she (and her fellow travellers) experienced (woman's story, in Ukrainian):

*took liberty of snipping the video out, who wants it, it's up there in your post*

Her last words from video: "... you have to learn Arabic, and understand what they <refugees> are talking about, how they mock you, and how they spit behind your back".

It might have been isolated incident, nevertheless...

Probably not that isolated. I didn't think it's necessary, but let me clear that up: of course there are *******s among the migrants too. Naturally. Some of them don't have an identity, it may make any lunatic or criminal among them especially bold. This is why handling migrant issue must be organized, not misused for inner political points and/or indulging personal perversions.

So.

I hope she never boards train with Croats then. The way we ridicule everyone, tell god awful jokes, yell and laugh like idiots... back then when dinosaurs walked the earth and I was young I used to travel by train a lot and each freaking time at least one Romeo would attempt to charm me.

Once a guy asked me ‘Where does such pretty lady travel, so alone?’ in creepily suggestive manner and I told him ‘To the convent. This is my last civilian trip.’ I was choking with suppressed laughter for the rest of the ride.

On the other hand, sometimes complete strangers would share sandwiches or cigarettes while desperately trying to find out why is the damn train not moving again.

War time public transport was even more amusing, but not to digress too far.

I believe she could speak Arab. Gaddafi, for example, was inclined to Slavic nurses, besides being married to a Slavic woman, among others. The scenes were filmed in Hungary and very painfully prove Croatian point that migrant transit must be organized. If you keep them in state of isolation, fear and anarchy, of course they’ll start behaving like they do in Hungary.

How come they’re so tame with us, in Croatia?

I admit I watched the video only to the second minute, forgive me, it’s not uninteresting, it’s just that I don’t have that much time or willpower. If I skipped something important, do tell me and I will comment it.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[Helen of Annoy]

It seems you was ahead of the curve. It seems the old tensions of the past are being displayed between the two as pressure from the migrant crisis causes old divisions to emerge.

These divisions are not old in the sense of being ended some time in the past. They're constant.

Add Hungary and tensions that include taking over Croatian national oil company, with help of ex-prime minister, now in jail.

Hungary and Serbia have teamed up in spiting Croatia, which should be strange considering Serbian dislike for NATO and no realistic chances to join EU on one side, and Hungary being so proud of their Schengen status on the other.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[+Hammerclaw]

Looks like staying out of the Syrian Civil War wasn't such a bright idea, after all, for all parties concerned. The problem with belonging to a Union is relinquishing control of one's borders. That aspect of the nascent European Union was implemented prematurely. The UK saw it, right off.

[bmk1245]

[...]

I admit I watched the video only to the second minute, forgive me, it’s not uninteresting, it’s just that I don’t have that much time or willpower. If I skipped something important, do tell me and I will comment it.

Nah, everything's OK

[Helen of Annoy]

Serbia stopped routing migrants to Croatia only, some are now routed to Hungary again.

Croatian police witnesses Serbian police pushing migrants by force towards the border, even in heavy rain. Some of the migrants don’t even have any shoes anymore, they fell apart while they were walking across Balkan.

Croatia opened the border for the Serbian traffic too today. It doesn’t mean it can’t be closed again, if the above mentioned sign of Serbian reluctant cooperation weaken.

Migrants have to walk or pay for the ride through Serbia. Croatia offered to lend or donate buses but Serbian government refused (!) for reasons known only to them.

It is allowed for citizens to give migrants a lift in Croatia, it is not allowed to charge for the ride. Migrants may use usual transport if they wish, it is not allowed to charge any higher price to them. Most must wait for transport organized for them, they are being constantly informed when and where, additional efforts were made to protect the disabled and the families.

Many families were separated along their way, but many reunited.

Weather changed, so the recent thousands of migrants (over 40,000 in total so far) come to Croatia soaking wet, on top of their usual misery. It’s not deadly cold yet, but it’s not pleasant either. Especially if you're barefoot. Volunteers dispense dry clothes and shoes. There's not enough room in shelters and tents (migrants don't want to be sent away from the closest transport route) so many still sleep in the open, in the rain. Group of young actual Syrians took a local dog under their blanket because the dog was cold and shivering. So much about islamists, these great guys did more for a dog (unclean animal to fanatics) than most people they met along their way did for them.

New route is expected to open: Greece-Albania-Montenegro-Croatia. Montenegro reports they’ve begun preparations for transit of 2,000 migrants, daily. Sounds of cooperation, from which we all can only benefit. So has Croatia started preparing her south route.

I think our authorities got the hang of it. I have no idea for how long we can keep it and what will come out of this, but I'm even more certain today than I was a week ago, that my nation made the right choice when it met migrants in our traditional way. With good will, especially in bad times.

[stevewinn]

Jesus wept. Seriously, Why didn't they prepare better for the journey? they've spent hundreds or thousands of dollars getting to europe. - They should have bought better clothes instead of starting the journey wearing the latest designer fashion. and the ones with the dog, they where most probably Christian Syrians, displaying that Christian spirit.

But please tell me, the Children, - are the Children okay? and are the Croatian authorities providing charging points for their smartphones, and obviously Free WiFi.

All look like they've just stepped off the plane with their "Duty Free"

Edited September 25, 2015 by stevewinn

[Helen of Annoy]

Jesus wept.

Of course he did. He was a child refugee too.

And of course he does, when he sees the ways some people are defending Christianity.

Funny detail: Milanovic asked Orban, in semi-official talk, to ‘do not defend Christianity for me’. Meaning that Croats don’t need others to defend their Christian traditions.

But I was talking about our true traditions, much older than Christianity. Fortunatelly, they are the same in the essence.

Seriously, Why didn't they prepare better for the journey? they've spent hundreds or thousands of dollars getting to europe. -

Some did. They’re already settled somewhere, after travelling first class. No one minds, just like no one minds when rich Arab buys western whores.

These folks everyone’s frothing about actually walk with 100 euros in pocket. Oh, and the phone. How dare they own a phone.

They should have bought better clothes instead of starting the journey wearing the latest designer fashion.

I have ‘designer’ clothes I bought for the price of a pack of cigarettes. They’re fake.

I also had pretty hiking boots that fell apart after one walk up and half way down my favourite path. I stick to our Jelen boots since then.

and the ones with the dog, they where most probably Christian Syrians, displaying that Christian spirit.

And you would keep them out of Christian Europe? Jesus needs new box of tissues, just because of you personally.

But please tell me, the Children, - are the Children okay?

Most of them, yes. Some were so traumatised not even Germans will be able to calm them down, so there’s a chance they’ll grow up to be just like you, but that won’t be our damn fault.

and are the Croatian authorities providing charging points for their smartphones, and obviously Free WiFi.

Yes, charging points and young volunteers walking around camps with free WiFi. They carry battery and the equipment in the backpacks, with piece of paper with ‘free WiFi’ sticked on said backpack. Migrants couldn’t believe and asked how much to connect. Nothing, it’s free.

If you were ever separated from your family and friends, desperate for information, you’d believe them and me that sometimes, information is more important than food.

Besides, are smartphones really a sign of wealth in your society? They don’t have to be of I-won’t-give-them-free-add-here brand, you can buy them at relatively acceptable price.

All look like they've just stepped off the plane with their "Duty Free"

Not to mention they're so brown. And short. No, really, they are short. Makes it a little easier to oversee the crowd.

But don’t be so envious, come over here, we’ll let you sleep in the tent too and use free WiFi. Then we’ll give you a free ride in the opposite direction, so you can walk down to ME and see for yourself if they moved out of spite, curiosity or necessity.

[scaniaman]

i wonder how many of these migrants will go back to syria in the future if the problems in syria get sorted out, i bet not many.

[Michelle]

I wish people would get over this obsession with color. I don't care if people are redheads from Ireland, which I am, sometimes communities and countries cannot absorb the added cost of so many people who cannot support themselves and depend on the kindness of other for an extended period of time.

[Mr.United_Nations]

I wish people would get over this obsession with color. I don't care if people are redheads from Ireland, which I am, sometimes communities and countries cannot absorb the added cost of so many people who cannot support themselves and depend on the kindness of other for an extended period of time.

Its not colout, a number of Syrians are white and with blonde hair. And they can because they spend hundreds if not thousands to get here

[Helen of Annoy]

I wish people would get over this obsession with color. I don't care if people are redheads from Ireland, which I am, sometimes communities and countries cannot absorb the added cost of so many people who cannot support themselves and depend on the kindness of other for an extended period of time.

Not to curb your unfounded sense of superiority, but Tennessee was not richer or more cultivated than Syria – before the war, naturally.

You, of course, draw your personal illusion of supremacy out of influence and strength of the whole US, country that is half a continent big, with states that do not equally contribute to the overall economy.

So your state is actually a geopolitical equivalent of those awful poor folks who make you so uncomfortable.

65,000 migrants went through Croatia so far. Neighbouring Serbia, Hungary and Slovenia are throwing joint hysteric fits, because this migrant wave was supposed to be left stranded in Croatia (and break Croatia down as a bonus). It didn't happen, so they're a bit frustrated, understandably.

Croatian rightish centre, currently in the opposition, praises Serbian and Hungarian treatment of the migrants and their head is in contact with Serbian prime minister, with intention to plot with Serbia against current, elected Croatian government. It's not surprising to anyone who knows objective recent history of this land. The louder the nationalist, the less true patriotism he has.

Another great side effect of a horrible situation: very clear reminder of the nature of certain political figures, right before the elections. Perfect.

Anyone in Croatia who wants Serbia as the closer ally than EU, should vote for the current opposition.

Not that current government was successful. They were freaking disaster. The only thing they handle right is external affairs, which is still something, far better than that, what fake nationalists have to offer.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Helen of Annoy