Croatia closes border crossings with Serbia

[stevewinn]

Hungary, Slovenia , Austria they all let migrants and refugees pass so they get to Germany.

Croatia sends them to Slovenia, Slovenia sends them to Austria and Austria sends them to Germany.

Otherwise Croatia would have to handle them, while she is a small country and Germany is a big country with 80 million people.

Did you not read my post: evidently not even though you quoted it, Slovenia's Prime Minister Miro Cerar protested to Croatia for continuing to let migrants cross the border by train. the crisis has also caused tension between Croatia, Hungary and Serbia.

Croatia's jurisdiction stops at her border. She as no authority beyond even though Helen of Annoy thinks it does, Its up to each individual country to permit the number of migrants it can process in its territory. simply sending trains with thousands of migrants across the border illegally under the cover of darkness is violating firstly the trust of those involved and secondly international laws. and that is exactly what Croatia has been doing. you simply cannot defend those actions.

Edited October 24, 2015 by stevewinn

[Helen of Annoy]

Nice attempt to paper over the cracks but Croatia is deliberately breaking not only the trust of her neighbours but international laws. You cannot simply "help" people to illegal enter another country just because Croatia cannot handle the situation, or because Croatia as a policy as a "transit" country for the migrants. This is not the first time Croatia as stooped to such lows. another Fence will be going up soon in response to Croatia's actions, poor Slovenia has now asked the EU for assistance, they've asked the EU for police officers and extra equipment to deal with the thousands of migrants entering the small Alpine country from Croatia. Slovenia has protested to Croatia for continuing to let migrants cross the border by train. 50,000 migrants have crossed into Slovenia in the last week alone.

You keep going on about Croatia doing a Excellent job, Really? an excellent job by dumping the migrants over the border and washing your hands of them, - off loading them to Slovenia causing all sorts of problems by those actions. Give a thought to Slovenia whose struggling, and Croatia simply dumping the migrants over the border doesn't fix the situation. in fact your countries actions of dumping them across the border has led to Slovenia having to request tents, blankets and other supplies under the EU's disaster relief programme, because they dont have enough to take the numbers, But you seem happy enough, - Croatia doing an excellent job. no, not really. just causing tensions to rise with all her neighbours she's p***ing off.

There’s this itsy-bitsy tiny problem with Slovenian mathematics, but I don’t expect you to take Croatian records as more reliable, because you’re obviously very Slovenian today

You never cease to amaze me with your ability to confirm every single stereotype of the old politics. (1914 type of old.)

Now, the Slovenian 50,000 didn’t pass through Croatia. Majority did, but not 50,000. Where from the excess appeared? Someone teleported them? Orban shot them out the cannon and straight into poor, defenceless Slovenia? Oh, right, he can't do that, because no one stayed in Hungary, they all left for Austria.

Speaking of defence, Slovenia brought their army to the border, which caused many Croats to suggest we immediately send one village hunting club or half a fire brigade, in case of war.

We’re not washing our hands. We help migrants wash their hands after weeks spend on the road, without chance to take a shower.

It is – of course – not Croatian fault that Slovenia apparently had no reserves any decent country must always have. Croatia spent a lot of her reserves and we will request EU help, but we still have plenty to give and we still have enough for our own population in case of flood, fire, asteroids, neighbours, plague or whatever else might hit us.

To be honest, Slovenian ‘war’ lasted 10 days and consisted of JNA pulling out so they can pound on Croatia for 5 years, so there’s probably that difference in taking reserves seriously, being able to organize more than kid’s birthday party and showing some damn compassion.

Oh, someone’s p***ed off? Good.

So I’m not the only one who’s p***ed off with this situation. Those unable to understand the very concept of European cooperation, screwing whole future for extorting few Euros today, pretending they’re blind and deaf while being truly stupid, claiming they’re Christian behind barbed wire, on which they spend time and money so gladly, on barbed wire in which wild life is dying, tangled. If it’s hard to watch a deer dying, imagine how hard it will be to watch men die.

Or that turns you freaks on?

Come down here, then, it looks very different in reality than on the screen.

[Helen of Annoy]

Did you not read my post: evidently not even though you quoted it, Slovenia's Prime Minister Miro Cerar protested to Croatia for continuing to let migrants cross the border by train. the crisis has also caused tension between Croatia, Hungary and Serbia.

Croatia's jurisdiction stops at her border. She as no authority beyond even though Helen of Annoy thinks it does, Its up to each individual country to permit the number of migrants it can process in its territory. simply sending trains with thousands of migrants across the border illegally under the cover of darkness is violating firstly the trust of those involved and secondly international laws. and that is exactly what Croatia has been doing. you simply cannot defend those actions.

You're behind the development of the situation.

Hungary is now safe in Russ... I mean, their own zone.

Serbia shows weak signs of reason, not that they can produce any miracles right now, it's Slovenia that's acting like a child that would like to play war and will calm down if EU gives them more candy.

Also, the migrants mostly end up in Croatia the same way they did since Hungary started closing: by being kicked off into physically crossable parts of the border, by Serbia.

Why don't you froth at your non-EU Serbia, for tossing migrants into EU Croatia?

edit: What train? I said Slovenia does not accept the ******* train, migrants have to walk, after being refused for hours at Slovenian crossings, since Slovenia claims Austria won't let them in. Austria denies, they are still taking migrants and routing further into Germany. Go check the facts if you don't believe me, but do not explain it to people before you don't know what the **** is going on.

edit II: And god damn it to the barbed wire border and back, what defending the actions of basic mercy need?

How will you defend your actions here in front of your own conscience?

All right, I'm done. No, I'll go kick the chair and then I'm done.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[stevewinn]

There’s this itsy-bitsy tiny problem with Slovenian mathematics, but I don’t expect you to take Croatian records as more reliable, because you’re obviously very Slovenian today

You never cease to amaze me with your ability to confirm every single stereotype of the old politics. (1914 type of old.)

Now, the Slovenian 50,000 didn’t pass through Croatia. Majority did, but not 50,000. Where from the excess appeared? Someone teleported them? Orban shot them out the cannon and straight into poor, defenceless Slovenia? Oh, right, he can't do that, because no one stayed in Hungary, they all left for Austria.

Speaking of defence, Slovenia brought their army to the border, which caused many Croats to suggest we immediately send one village hunting club or half a fire brigade, in case of war.

We’re not washing our hands. We help migrants wash their hands after weeks spend on the road, without chance to take a shower.

It is – of course – not Croatian fault that Slovenia apparently had no reserves any decent country must always have. Croatia spent a lot of her reserves and we will request EU help, but we still have plenty to give and we still have enough for our own population in case of flood, fire, asteroids, neighbours, plague or whatever else might hit us.

To be honest, Slovenian ‘war’ lasted 10 days and consisted of JNA pulling out so they can pound on Croatia for 5 years, so there’s probably that difference in taking reserves seriously, being able to organize more than kid’s birthday party and showing some damn compassion.

Oh, someone’s p***ed off? Good.

So I’m not the only one who’s p***ed off with this situation. Those unable to understand the very concept of European cooperation, screwing whole future for extorting few Euros today, pretending they’re blind and deaf while being truly stupid, claiming they’re Christian behind barbed wire, on which they spend time and money so gladly, on barbed wire in which wild life is dying, tangled. If it’s hard to watch a deer dying, imagine how hard it will be to watch men die.

Or that turns you freaks on?

Come down here, then, it looks very different in reality than on the screen.

Your country's actions are making matters worse, you realise it but you will never have the courage to acknowledge it, Im sorry, but the evidence is clear, your government has a policy which is to transport migrants across the border illegally. The Slovenian Government has asked your Government to stop. By continuing with that policy you are not helping the situation for anyone let alone the migrants when you are simply washing your hands of the migrants and dumping them in another country. A country by your own admission who is ill equipt and has no provisions in place to deal with extra influx of migrants from Croatia. But your happy to keep dumping more.

As for the figure of 50,000 migrants passing through Slovenia. It was reported by the BBC NEWs. On Thursday of this week, Slovenia reported that 12,000 migrants had arrived in one day - a record in the current crisis in Central Europe.

If Croatia refuses Slovenia's request - then surely a decision to build a fence along the border will follow. and Croatia will be stuck with the migrants.

[Deleted]

Did you not read my post: evidently not even though you quoted it, Slovenia's Prime Minister Miro Cerar protested to Croatia for continuing to let migrants cross the border by train. the crisis has also caused tension between Croatia, Hungary and Serbia.

Croatia's jurisdiction stops at her border. She as no authority beyond even though Helen of Annoy thinks it does, Its up to each individual country to permit the number of migrants it can process in its territory. simply sending trains with thousands of migrants across the border illegally under the cover of darkness is violating firstly the trust of those involved and secondly international laws. and that is exactly what Croatia has been doing. you simply cannot defend those actions.

That`s what Austria also does, sending migrants to Germany ("illigally" because they just drop them off there or directly at the border, it is a common practice, they don`t register them, same goes for Italy they drop them off at Austrian border or send them there) and I am pretty sure Slovenia and Hungary do the same. Germany sometimes closes the border because of this. Stop blaming Croatia it was Hungary with their damn fence who started the mess, now all refugees need to go through Croatia and Slovenia. Also Hungary's actions made a European solution a lot harder because they wanted to play the isolation card.

Edited October 24, 2015 by hellwyr

[Helen of Annoy]

Your country's actions are making matters worse, you realise it but you will never have the courage to acknowledge it, Im sorry, but the evidence is clear, your government has a policy which is to transport migrants across the border illegally. The Slovenian Government has asked your Government to stop. By continuing with that policy you are not helping the situation for anyone let alone the migrants when you are simply washing your hands of the migrants and dumping them in another country. A country by your own admission who is ill equipt and has no provisions in place to deal with extra influx of migrants from Croatia. But your happy to keep dumping more.

As for the figure of 50,000 migrants passing through Slovenia. It was reported by the BBC NEWs. On Thursday of this week, Slovenia reported that 12,000 migrants had arrived in one day - a record in the current crisis in Central Europe.

If Croatia refuses Slovenia's request - then surely a decision to build a fence along the border will follow. and Croatia will be stuck with the migrants.

Original German version of that map is much more thorough, with alternative, closed and less popular routes. Just saying, in case you want more detailed info than that.

Aha, why didn’t you say so... when Greece (Schengen zone, no less!), Macedonia (not guilty, it hit them), Serbia (they shouldn’t charge and they should ****en cooperate more) and Hungary (don’t get me started) do it, it’s either all right or didn’t happen?

But when Croatia does it, only in far more sensible manner, we’re the bad guys?

Slovenia is constantly being offered (by Croatia) cooperation, not just in form of advices and agreements, but also our own transport devices and refuses it.

Slovenia can put their fence up but that would change practically nothing. Further Croatian actions depend on many factors (clear to anyone not retarded, but since this is Internet I had to say it clearly).

Croatia is ready to accept certain number of migrants, but migrants are not ready to accept staying in ****hole that’s not much less ****holey than their home ****hole.

So you can pleasure yourself with the prospect of Croatia being stuck in wire, since it obviously means so much to you, but it won’t break us. What you missed is inner Croatian politics. It will arouse you more. You see, if the HDZ wins the elections in... two weeks... the wire will go up on the Croatian side. With all the benefits that go with that.

Your darkest wet dreams would come true.

edit: accidentally tricked the profanity filter. ****. fixed.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[stevewinn]

That`s what Austria also does, sending migrants to Germany ("illigally" because they just drop them off there or directly at the border, it is a common practice, they don`t register them, same goes for Italy they drop them off at Austrian border or send them there) and I am pretty sure Slovenia and Hungary do the same. Germany sometimes closes the border because of this. Stop blaming Croatia it was Hungary with their damn fence who started the mess, now all refugees need to go through Croatia and Slovenia. Also Hungary's actions made a European solution a lot harder because they wanted to play the isolation card.

You seem to neglect to mention or maybe you simply forgot about territorial integrity and National Sovereignty. Each individual country has the right to self determination to set their own border controls. If Hungary wants to build a border fence to protect its territorial integrity then its entirely within its right to do so. Slovenian as the right to protest to Croatia to stop Croatia violating its territory integrity.

[stevewinn]

Original German version of that map is much more thorough, with alternative, closed and less popular routes. Just saying, in case you want more detailed info than that.

Aha, why didn’t you say so... when Greece (Schengen zone, no less!), Macedonia (not guilty, it hit them), Serbia (they shouldn’t charge and they should ****en cooperate more) and Hungary (don’t get me started) do it, it’s either all right or didn’t happen?

But when Croatia does it, only in far more sensible manner, we’re the bad guys?

Slovenia is constantly being offered (by Croatia) cooperation, not just in form of advices and agreements, but also our own transport devices and refuses it.

Slovenia can put their fence up but that would change practically nothing. Further Croatian actions depend on many factors (clear to anyone not retarded, but since this is Internet I had to say it clearly).

Croatia is ready to accept certain number of migrants, but migrants are not ready to accept staying in ****hole that’s not much less ****holey than their home ****hole.

So you can pleasure yourself with the prospect of Croatia being stuck in wire, since it obviously means so much to you, but it won’t break us. What you missed is inner Croatian politics. It will arouse you more. You see, if the HDZ wins the elections in... two weeks... the wire will go up on the Croatian side. With all the benefits that go with that.

Your darkest wet dreams would come true.

edit: accidentally tricked the profanity filter. ****. fixed.

no cogent argument then. We're done here it seems.

[Deleted]

You seem to neglect to mention or maybe you simply forgot about territorial integrity and National Sovereignty. Each individual country has the right to self determination to set their own border controls. If Hungary wants to build a border fence to protect its territorial integrity then its entirely within its right to do so. Slovenian as the right to protest to Croatia to stop Croatia violating its territory integrity.

Of course every country has the right to do so, but it doesn't make it an intelligent choice. And, If we consider the situation and look at the whole picture, then to quarrel with other countries and built fences is the worst decision one can make.The whole crisis can only be handled if countries work together, above all if the countries are part of the European Union. The refugees and migrants will flee as along as the middle east is a war zone spreading from Afghanistan to Egypt and soon Turkey.

The neighboring countries like Lebanon and so on are hit the hardest, they have to cope with masses of refugees and the small percentage of refugees which come to Europe seem compared to what they have to handle like a drop in the ocean. And if those countries are left alone they will soon become yet another new conflict zone and then the real **** will hit the fan.

So, if countries within Europe start to blame each-other and built fences...etc then they will not only fail in handling the refugees they will make this whole situation into a political crisis within Europe and that is the last thing Europe needs.

Since the EU seems to fail, partly thanks to Hungary, Croatia and other countries need to look out for themselves and that is what they do.

[Helen of Annoy]

no cogent argument then. We're done here it seems.

Of course it's not cogent for you, since your logic works in its own way. It's how you reached your personal political dogma that whatever hurts all Europe, is somehow good for you.

Well, the good news for you are multiplying. There goes Montenegro too, their pro-Western government might topple and everyone not retarded knows who stands behind that. And Hungary. And Greece. And you.

But it doesn't bother me. It's your own problem. What bothers me is that talking to people like you feels extremelly nasty and yet, if people like me let you rant undisturbed, you'll think you can actually pass with your morbid ideas.

No, you can't.

You will trip on your own wires.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[Mr.United_Nations]

Croatia might be building a fence as it cant handle the numbers. Slovenia, serbia and romaneia are planning to build fences

[stevewinn]

Croatia might be building a fence as it cant handle the numbers. Slovenia, serbia and romaneia are planning to build fences

It seems to be the case. It was less than 24 hours ago i posted on here stating if Croatia's actions continue we cannot rule out fences going up all over the place, Noted on the BBC NEWS this morning Slovenia's president said his country would "act on its own before it is too late" if no solution was reached and Prime Minister Miro Cerar has refused to rule out building a fence along the border with Croatia.

Also with 9,000 migrants arriving in Greece this week alone, its clear Merkels plan has spectacularly backfired: and the EU has failed spectacularly. I cannot wait until saturation point is reached and the hand wringers are forced to make the tough decision, the same tough decision they refused to take on day one.

[Flashbangwallop]

Yeah one supposes that putting your finger in the dyke will slow the flow at least until someone gets their wire cutters out.

[stevewinn]

The fences not just hinder people from passing, a lot of animals will die, animal families will be torn apart, territories will be separated and the ecological system will suffer as a consequence. I don`t know how humans can think in the 21 century to go into that direction.

How many wild animals have been killed and eaten by the thousands of migrants walking through europe.

Edited October 25, 2015 by stevewinn

[141]

How many wild animals have been killed and eaten by the thousands of migrants walking through europe.

yeah STEVE like they all have rifles and traps with them ...yeahhhh :angry:so concerned about Animals ??? check what your country men did for centuries out of pleasure http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/countryside/11418998/Ten-years-on-from-the-hunting-ban-has-anything-really-changed.html

Edited October 25, 2015 by YA AMAR

[Deleted]

How many wild animals have been killed and eaten by the thousands of migrants walking through europe.

I don`t know tell me.

Also, it makes a difference if you kill an animal to feed/ to survive or if you kill it just because you don't even waste a thought on its existence and the worth of nature. If you kill it for food you are thankful, if you built a fence and don't even recognize the existence of the ecological system than it is worse and it doesn't make sense.

[bmk1245]

The fences not just hinder people from passing, a lot of animals will die, animal families will be torn apart, territories will be separated and the ecological system will suffer as a consequence. I don`t know how humans can think in the 21 century to go into that direction.

What fences have to do with snares? I see you employ same tactics as Kremlin trolls (put picture of killed child in ME, and write below "Kiev junta... Fascists... Nazis...")

[stevewinn]

I don`t know tell me.

Also, it makes a difference if you kill an animal to feed/ to survive or if you kill it just because you don't even waste a thought on its existence and the worth of nature. If you kill it for food you are thankful, if you built a fence and don't even recognize the existence of the ecological system than it is worse and it doesn't make sense.

I thought you had the answer, seeing how it was you showing a interest in the Wildlife and the impact of the migrant crisis on it. - I wonder how many Migrants have been killed by Wild Animals as they go off piste, so to speak. not much thought will have gone into this scenario. Well it wouldn't have entered you mind, that i can be sure.

Edited October 25, 2015 by stevewinn

[Deleted]

What fences have to do with snares? I see you employ same tactics as Kremlin trolls (put picture of killed child in ME, and write below "Kiev junta... Fascists... Nazis...")

There are a lot of other pictures, I just googled this one and it doesn't make my argument invalid.

@attacks by wild animals, if human beings are allowed to hunt animals,then animals should also be allowed to hunt human beings . Anyway a lot more animals are killed or extinct by the hands of human beings than humans are killed by animal attacks.

Edited October 25, 2015 by hellwyr

[Helen of Annoy]

What fences have to do with snares? I see you employ same tactics as Kremlin trolls (put picture of killed child in ME, and write below "Kiev junta... Fascists... Nazis...")

No, it's not trolling, it's really happening. It's one thing to guard your border, completely another to literally wrap it in barber wire. We really do suffer loss of wildlife because of that perversion.

The stupidest thing about it is that people can throw a blanket over the wire, cut it and so on, while animals - of course - can't.

Besides, let's not pretend we don't know whose player is Orban, so if anyone is trolling in Kremlin style, then those are '100 million jihadists' people.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[Deleted]

Today was a EU meeting to solve the refugee crisis, everyone was trying to say something constructive only Hungary's premier minister came in as an observer and he laughed about the whole meeting and didn't take it seriously, he said it is not his problem anymore he built a fence. Why is such a country even part of the EU, Hungary is obviously taking advantage of the EU while she has no intention to work together.

Edited October 25, 2015 by hellwyr

[Helen of Annoy]

I wrote 'barber' wire up there, which I constantly do for some weird reason, only this time I didn't notice... of course, I meant barbed wire.

Today was a EU meeting to solve the refugee crisis, everyone was trying to say something constructive only Hungary's premier minister came in as an observer and he laughed about the whole meeting and didn't take it seriously, he said it is not his problem anymore he built a fence. Why is such a country even part of the EU, Hungary is obviously taking advantage of the EU while she has no intention to work together.

He thinks he has his future secured with the undead USSR.

I can't stop wondering what happened to Hungarians, have they forgot their history already.

[Wickian]

The fences not just hinder people from passing, a lot of animals will die, animal families will be torn apart, territories will be separated and the ecological system will suffer as a consequence. I don`t know how humans can think in the 21 century to go into that direction.

The fault of this lays at the feet of the ones breaking the law, not the governments trying to prevent illegal trespassing.

[stevewinn]

Croatia up to its old tricks. - You can see whats going on, no country downwind of Austria wants to be left holding the Parcel (Migrants) when the music stops. Croatia just dumps them over the border.

Report from Yesterday.

[Flashbangwallop]

I'm afraid so, it's okay politicians saying we're all buddies but they never consult those masses.

They prefer to go to banquets and eat venison and swan with the Queen.

I think that's what's meant by being out of touch.