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Germany in a state of SIEGE


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Do you even understand what you are writing, or do you just repeat what someone else told you, because it seems to me that you dont comprehend your own words "these damn groups of lazy illegal Muslim thugs"

- you called a group of people lazy because they are supposdly muslims and they are not allowed to work currently because of their status

- you called a whole group thugs, so you say they are generally criminal even though you dont know if they have commited any crime, or is longing for a better life a crime in your eyes, if so you must be misarble.

Really ?

images%2019_zpsu5yqesza.jpg

what you have to say !....

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1) "Hate Speech" is usually only so in the eye of the beholder. From what I'm starting to suspect, ANY anti-migrant, anti-Merkel speech is being considered "hate speech".

2) Isn't this: a form of "hate speech" as well? What's the new-wave, current definition of "hate speech" now?

It's got nothing to do with 'hate speech' - it's fear and uncertainy what the country is really going through.

Yep - the 'hate speech' is nothing but being defensive against the truth from outsiders. They know they stufffed up - hence being on the defence.

Sadly - that's human nature.

Edited by Astra-
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It's got nothing to do with 'hate speech' - it's fear and uncertainy what the country is really going through.

Yep - the 'hate speech' is nothing but being defensive against the truth from outsiders. They know they stufffed up - hence being on the defence.

Sadly - that's human nature.

Have you seen the respective 'hate speech' on facebook? Do you really know what you are talking about? These comments are about murdering, dehumanizing or torturing people, for instance.

I also like to point out that facebook isn't a public space. It is a privately run website that can moderate their content however they want it, just like this site, unexplained mystery, is doing it as well. And it's not infringing freedom of speech.

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No, there is a clear red line that must be crossed to enter the hate speech section. General criticism, on the government/politicians

and on situations, like the immigrant situation, is the freedom of speech. To call Merkel a limping duck might be an insult but I would

not define such statemant as hate speech.

Again, if I were called anything like that, I would certainly classify it as "hate speech". In general, there's little difference between insulting someone at any level, and calling for the deaths of others because of skin color, beliefs, what not. It's all negative, just varying levels of negative.

Example for hate speech: some weeks ago there was a picture posted on FB, published by a private immigrant support group, showing

a smiling 6yo Syrian girl in a park where the local fire station opened a hydrant for the pleasure of the kids there. A German FB user

commented that "a flame-thrower would had been the better option for the kid". Thats what I call hate speech.

Sure, that's hate speech, pretty minor stuff at that, but that doesn't change a thing I posted at all. In fact, you're just showing a "level" of hateful speech. It's stupid, it's insulting...but in the long run it's just words. Toughen yourselves up....as the saying goes "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never harm me."

I also want to point out to the other side of this argument about free speech. Everyone should have the right to free speech, they should be allowed to think and say what they want to. This is and should be an inalienable right to all human beings. However, the platform upon which they use to say such stuff has the final say what they want or don't want. For example, Facebook has every right to censure what they want posted...it's their site after all. "Hateful" speech as perceived by the mods on this very site is monitored and censured. Doesn't mean the person doesn't have the right to think it or say it, just do it somewhere where it's allowed. If someone doesn't like it, don't use it anymore. Move on to a place where they welcome all sorts of words, insulting or not. Facebook isn't a free country that is interested in equal rights for all, it's just a website run by people who want it run the way they want to.

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It's got nothing to do with 'hate speech' - it's fear and uncertainy what the country is really going through.

I can understand that fear and uncertainty well enough.

Yep - the 'hate speech' is nothing but being defensive against the truth from outsiders. They know they stufffed up - hence being on the defence.

Sadly - that's human nature.

Yeah, you're right. It is.

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lazy Muslims thugs.. wtf you are some disgusting human beeing, sounds to me like gypsy thievs and lazy jews who steal jobs.......... I dont know who raised you but they did a very bad job, but maybe your parents arent at fault since you are an adult, so I guess you must be a unsatisfied human beeing who find it easy to judge 3 billion people, without knowing any of them, its not just disreseptful it shows your attitude towrds human life, if you had one spark of intellegence and experience inside of you, you would know that there are all kinds of humans and humans have a free will, thus you cant just insult a whole group of peopel who you dont know, who were just born in a moslem country which is in a worn torn state thanks to the EU and the USA. So get your **** together, seriously people like you are disgusting.

Learn to read son, she clearly clarified the collective noun she was referring to, she didn't say all Muslimsm just the sort of merchant bankers who instead of getting a job, sit in cafes and tell people how to dress/behave, who insist on their wives being in full traditional garb while themselves in jeans and ray bans.

the sort who don't integrate into society but rather sit about taking from society and demanding things change to suit them.

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It's got nothing to do with 'hate speech' - it's fear and uncertainy what the country is really going through.

Yep - the 'hate speech' is nothing but being defensive against the truth from outsiders. They know they stufffed up - hence being on the defence.

Sadly - that's human nature.

Totally agree with Astra,

Since when is it hate speech when human traffickers are being rewarded for mistreating and breaking the laws of a country and when the government of the country's that are targeted by "refugees" refuse to enforce their own laws.

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Analysis: Refugee crisis puts the survival of Europe at risk

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Analysis-Refugee-crisis-puts-the-survival-of-Europe-at-risk-415341

"Today there are an estimated 30 million “refugees” who are mostly Muslims and do not want to be integrated in the host countries.

They want to preserve their cultural and religious identity; they want to impose their Islamic way of life. Inevitably, many do not find work, and turn to drugs and petty crime. In some areas they drove out the original inhabitants because of rising insecurity."

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Totally agree with Astra,

Since when is it hate speech when human traffickers are being rewarded for mistreating and breaking the laws of a country and when the government of the country's that are targeted by "refugees" refuse to enforce their own laws.

What does that even have to do with the hate speech? And besides: The hate speech is directed towards any kind of asylum seekers. It doesn't matter how they came here. And there is a difference between: "I don't want that scum here", and "we should burn all their kids at a stake and have a barbecue. That would prevent them from coming here", don't you think? I can understand if you want this kind of speech moderated. It has nothing to do with the "truth" but with fear, yes, and also a lot of personal insecurity and xenophobia.

Now you might say it's a morbid joke or simply a troll. But the problem is that some idiots really go out to set the homes of asylum seekers on fire.

Do you people think that the moderation on unexplained mysteries is infringement of freedom of speech?

Edited by FLOMBIE
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Don't know where you are from - and frankly I don't really care. But I'll tell you something that happened here in Australia two years ago.

A friend of mine walked into a Bank on a very hot day in summer.

Waiting in line in front of her was a women wearing a full Burqa from head to toe (face covered in the black material....except for her eye's)

Friend says - " Oh you must feel very hot in that"

Women in Burqa say's " No, I am comfortable - oneday you will be wearing the same thing"

Friend - lost for words - did not know what to say - and dismissed the remark at the time.

Take from that what you will.

You're saying that why? I was pointing out that there are already four almost identical threads on the go.

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What does that even have to do with the hate speech? And besides: The hate speech is directed towards any kind of asylum seekers. It doesn't matter how they came here. And there is a different between: "I don't want that scum here", and "we should burn all their kids at a stake and have a barbecue. That would prevent them from coming here", don't you think? I can understand if you want this kind of speech moderated. It has nothing to do with the "truth" but with fear, yes, and also a lot of personal insecurity and xenophobia.

Now you might say it's a morbid joke or simply a troll. But the problem is that some idiots really go out to set the homes of asylum seekers on fire.

Do you people think that the moderation on unexplained mysteries is infringement of freedom of speech?

I'm not advocating bbq-ing anyone nor do I wanna stymie your rights to free speech but im against this method of entry that ridicules national laws and social cohesion. The only confusing statements are yours? What exactly is the point your making, that Europe should be welcoming of people that arrive illegally and refuse to intergrate? This refugees phenomen is looking more more like a sick social experiment, hoisted upon the citizens of Europe by a bunch of politicians that have no mandate to do so. There is a reason we have rules and borders and it's not so they can be swept aside every time our leaders get teary when they see people suffering. Otherwise lets do away with borders and nations and become economic collectives devoid of nation, religion and culture.

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I'm not advocating bbq-ing anyone nor do I wanna stymie your rights to free speech but im against this method of entry that ridicules national laws and social cohesion. The only confusing statements are yours? What exactly is the point your making, that Europe should be welcoming of people that arrive illegally and refuse to intergrate? This refugees phenomen is looking more more like a sick social experiment, hoisted upon the citizens of Europe by a bunch of politicians that have no mandate to do so. There is a reason we have rules and borders and it's not so they can be swept aside every time our leaders get teary when they see people suffering. Otherwise lets do away with borders and nations and become economic collectives devoid of nation, religion and culture.

I personally would like that. I feel that nations are an old concept that doesn't fit into the age of globalization, and the current problems display that very well.

But first of all we have to make sure we are on the same page here: Why do you think all these people are unwilling to integrate and all come here illegally? Have you ever been in contact with an asylum seeker? Do you think they are all nasty people who are out for your money? Do you know how many are not granted asylum and are being sent back?

But the point I was making goes into a different direction: Facebook already has all the rights they need to moderate, censor or however you want to call it any kind of speech they want to on their platform. Because it is their platform. And if the German government negotiates about what in particular, and we are talking about calls for murder, etc., should be moderated, it is fair and under the law as well.

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I personally would like that. I feel that nations are an old concept that doesn't fit into the age of globalization, and the current problems display that very well.

But first of all we have to make sure we are on the same page here: Why do you think all these people are unwilling to integrate and all come here illegally? Have you ever been in contact with an asylum seeker? Do you think they are all nasty people who are out for your money? Do you know how many are not granted asylum and are being sent back?

But the point I was making goes into a different direction: Facebook already has all the rights they need to moderate, censor or however you want to call it any kind of speech they want to on their platform. Because it is their platform. And if the German government negotiates about what in particular, and we are talking about calls for murder, etc., should be moderated, it is fair and under the law as well.

I had a sneaking suspicion you would like the concept of globalisation. Me personally no. I'm all into the beauty of diversity and differences. And this is at the heart of what I'm saying... people generally don't care for globalisation and living in the 'tower of Babylon' type societies. YET politicians, the world over, seem to go out of their way to force this on the people they govern. I would feel more comfortable if Western nations help build third world nations instead of the constant nefarious meddling like in Iraq and Syria.

I feel sympathic to fellow human suffering, but I'm a realist too. If people can't intergrate or won't cause of culture or religion then maybe they should emigrate to nations with a similar culture or stay only until it's safe to go back. I don't see why my country should resemble another country just to prove to a bunch of strangers I'm not a racist or xenophobic. It's not about being scared it's about harmony and go to some places in France, Germany etc etc and you can see what a failed policy unplanned and uncoordinated immigration has become. I don't see any value in making the same mistakes for the same results.

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Again, if I were called anything like that, I would certainly classify it as "hate speech". In general, there's little difference between

insulting someone at any level, and calling for the deaths of others because of skin color, beliefs, what not. It's all negative, just

varying levels of negative.

I´m in the opinion that our dialogue unfortunately turns into nitpicking. Of course it can be discussed on if the wording "Merkel is a

limping duck" should be declared as to be hate speech or not, but such a discussion isnt the point here. The point here are comments

like the example that I posted in post #38 and the social responsibility of so called "social networks", like FB, in relation to such

comments. And to give the option to separate in future discussions, I will give the hate speech level that I`m talking about the

description "nazi speech".

Sure, that's hate speech, pretty minor stuff at that, but

that doesn't change a thing I posted at all. In fact, you're just showing a "level" of hateful speech. It's stupid, it's insulting...but in the

long run it's just words. Toughen yourselves up....as the saying goes "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never

harm me."

Yeah, I was talking about "just" one level of hate speech and I will continue to do so if required. And the level I`m talking about is the

level, again, I gave an example for in post #38 and such comments are not just words, as you say, such comments are against all (high)

ethical standards that you and I have. And no, I will never toughen myself up for these nazi speech comments as I do not accept them

and I do not accept that such comments are getting published, especially on public social network boards where even underaged ppl

can or have to read them.

I also want to point out to the other side of this argument about free speech. Everyone should have the right to free speech, they

should be allowed to think and say what they want to. This is and should be an inalienable right to all human beings.

Absolutely but the freedom of speech have to be limited down in case the free speech turns into racism, appeal for violence/murder

and similar, not just on public boards like FB.

However, the platform upon which they use to say such

stuff has the final say what they want or don't want. For example, Facebook has every right to censure what they want posted...it's

their site after all. "Hateful" speech as perceived by the mods on this very site is monitored and censured.

I never said that there is no censorship on FB, I was only talking about the FB nazi speech comments there, where the FB

management, so the CEO as well, failed at high-grade. As FB does not have the needed number of ppl speaking German language,

to be able to monitor and to censor the board in compliance to their own guidelines, nazi speech is quite present on the board even if

these comments have been reported thousands of times. But nothing happend, nothing. It took the German minister of justice to take

action and to set FB under pressure to take action. And that is, for a billion dollar company like FB, a very poor behavior and it opens

the question if their own ethical standards are just valid for the US, but not for countries outside the US.

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I had a sneaking suspicion you would like the concept of globalisation. Me personally no. I'm all into the beauty of diversity and differences. And this is at the heart of what I'm saying... people generally don't care for globalisation and living in the 'tower of Babylon' type societies. YET politicians, the world over, seem to go out of their way to force this on the people they govern. I would feel more comfortable if Western nations help build third world nations instead of the constant nefarious meddling like in Iraq and Syria.

I feel sympathic to fellow human suffering, but I'm a realist too. If people can't intergrate or won't cause of culture or religion then maybe they should emigrate to nations with a similar culture or stay only until it's safe to go back. I don't see why my country should resemble another country just to prove to a bunch of strangers I'm not a racist or xenophobic. It's not about being scared it's about harmony and go to some places in France, Germany etc etc and you can see what a failed policy unplanned and uncoordinated immigration has become. I don't see any value in making the same mistakes for the same results.

I wouldn't say I like the concept of globalization, since I see good and bad things in it, but living and working in both Korea and Germany makes me pretty much a product of it. And I am also well aware of the fact that we live in the age of globalization and it's certainly not going to change back. I also do not see most people living in, as you put it, 'tower of Babel' type societies, but rather people who embrace their "internationality" and stays in or connection to other countries. May I ask where you are from?

There is also a lot of aids from western countries going to third world countries - socially and economically - but that doesn't help now if you have such a devastating and cruel war going on like it Syria and Iraq right now, does it? For the moment, these people have no future in their countries, and need a different kind of help, and gladly they are receiving it.

So, why did you not answer any of my questions? Why do you believe the majority of these people are unwilling to integrate? From the contact that I recently had with refugees (There is an office of social workers dealing with refugees including a language school close to the place where I live in Berlin.), Syrians and Iraqis, I could see that they all have a strong desire to return to their home and families, who are scattered or still in danger at home. They are normal, everyday people, who just want an honest and save living, and most of all, stay alive.

And then there is also the fact that 'integration' does not mean 'assimilation'. To integrate means to combine two or more things to form or create something, and not that one simply adopts another culture. So yes, they can course bring their culture, religion and traditions over here. But only if they also respect ours. If there are clashes, they should be dealt with under German law, which is also the reason why we have to help these people.

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You're saying that why? I was pointing out that there are already four almost identical threads on the go.

Of course - and you're right.

Just thought I would share that interesting titbit......and as far as there being four threads on the go....well that should be left for the moderators to decide.

Don't you think ?

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Of course - and you're right.

Just thought I would share that interesting titbit......and as far as there being four threads on the go....well that should be left for the moderators to decide.

Don't you think ?

Sorry what? I don't get what the controversy was over me pointing that out, and no, it would be up to the mods to decide if there are four too many threads, that there are multiple threads of a recycled topic is not really debatable, but I guess some will debate it anyway.

But I consider myself wrist slapped for.... Something.

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I wouldn't say I like the concept of globalization, since I see good and bad things in it, but living and working in both Korea and Germany makes me pretty much a product of it. And I am also well aware of the fact that we live in the age of globalization and it's certainly not going to change back. I also do not see most people living in, as you put it, 'tower of Babel' type societies, but rather people who embrace their "internationality" and stays in or connection to other countries. May I ask where you are from?

There is also a lot of aids from western countries going to third world countries - socially and economically - but that doesn't help now if you have such a devastating and cruel war going on like it Syria and Iraq right now, does it? For the moment, these people have no future in their countries, and need a different kind of help, and gladly they are receiving it.

So, why did you not answer any of my questions? Why do you believe the majority of these people are unwilling to integrate? From the contact that I recently had with refugees (There is an office of social workers dealing with refugees including a language school close to the place where I live in Berlin.), Syrians and Iraqis, I could see that they all have a strong desire to return to their home and families, who are scattered or still in danger at home. They are normal, everyday people, who just want an honest and save living, and most of all, stay alive.

And then there is also the fact that 'integration' does not mean 'assimilation'. To integrate means to combine two or more things to form or create something, and not that one simply adopts another culture. So yes, they can course bring their culture, religion and traditions over here. But only if they also respect ours. If there are clashes, they should be dealt with under German law, which is also the reason why we have to help these people.

I like to think I answered all your questions and those that I didn't answer directly I left an implied response. I know immigrants that I get on very well but I can't see how that alters any of my opinions. But this isn't about me and what I would do this is about politicians that by being inept at enforcing the rules find it easier to accept an apology than ask someone to ask for permission.

And this is globalisation summed up... Cheers

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lol do you seriously think I want trust from someone who calls a whole group of people lazy thugs.....I dont befriend myself to racists, sorry.

You should befriend someone who can read, it is quite clear that Astra was not referring to Muslims as whole, this argument comes up all the time and it is BS. We know there are Moderate Muslims, they are not the ones making these headlines now are they?

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You can be sure that the home grown grlz and ladies give a **ht on what some radical Muslims think the women should wear or

not.

I feel local knowledge is a huge advantage, toast, would you say the article in the OP is entirely unfounded? I mean about the lawless state described, they make it sound like things went to hell in a handbasket overnight, is that the case mate, or is this a huge exaggeration?

I have seen migrants arrive here in Australia, and then bleat that the community living conditions are not acceptable, when they just spent 6 months in a leaky boat!! And burn the accommodation down, vandalise, and make unrealistic demands, so it hits home for some, and reminds us of that which we have heard before. Because of that, it is easy to give the benefit of the doubt here to the article.

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You should befriend someone who can read, it is quite clear that Astra was not referring to Muslims as whole, this argument comes up all the time and it is BS. We know there are Moderate Muslims, they are not the ones making these headlines now are they?

You take some criminal muslims and say all immigrants are like that and they must proof their innocence to you, otherwise the topic of muslim thugs, wouldnt come up.

This whole discussion is only about that; muslim terrorists, thugs thievs...etc there are no reasonable arguments only fearmongering, hatespeach and agitation.

Also people with criminal mindsets are found everywhere you dont need to be moslem to be criminal, there is enough rape and other criminal acts commited by christians and historically viewed christianity has a lot more blood on their hands than moslems. Anyway this whole discussion is useless. If there is something to be afraid of then its people who create scapegoats and persons who split the people into varous hostile groups which fight eachother and not some immigrants.

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You take some criminal muslims and say all immigrants are like that and they must proof their innocence to you, otherwise the topic of muslim thugs, wouldnt come up.

This whole discussion is only about that; muslim terrorists, thugs thievs...etc there are no reasonable arguments only fearmongering, hatespeach and agitation.

Also people with criminal mindsets are found everywhere you dont need to be moslem to be criminal, there is enough rape and other criminal acts commited by christians and historically viewed christianity has a lot more blood on their hands than moslems. Anyway this whole discussion is useless. If there is something to be afraid of then its people who create scapegoats and persons who split the people into varous hostile groups which fight eachother and not some immigrants.

Let me ask you: are you muslim preacher, or smthng?
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Nope I am pagan but IT IS NON OF YOUR BUSINESS what SOMEONE BELIEVES. Typical western imperialistic mindset, same mindset people fought against for centuries :).

Edited by hellwyr
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Nope I am pagan but IT IS NON OF YOUR BUSINESS what SOMEONE BELIEVES. Typical western imperialistic mindset, same mindset people fought against for centuries :).

Well, well, well... Leftie "so in the trend" pagan... Shove your skit paganism up your rear end, efkin' moron. Do you have slightest idea/clue about pagan rituals, starting with animal and human sacrifice, huh? Want bloody eagle much? Ask your "pagan mindset" pals to perform such... There will be sea of vomit...
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