Russia in Syria

[+and-then]

There is a clearly established pattern of the US using guerilla organizations to do their bidding in proxy wars. Should this claim of Russian oligarchs being on this plane bare out then noone should be shocked that a US funded terrorist organization is the one that took the aircraft down. That serves two purposes, harms Russia who has flatly called the US out on their BS lately , and gives the propaganda machine publicity tool for fear mongering and money raising.

I see, so magic glasses it is BTW - the pilots radioed a technical problem before the plane began it's plunge. Sometimes planes just...crash. Who was on board really shouldn't matter. They were at about 30,000 ft and the plane began falling, basically. Can you imagine what it was like in that couple of minutes?

[Farmer77]

I see, so magic glasses it is BTW - the pilots radioed a technical problem before the plane began it's plunge. Sometimes planes just...crash. Who was on board really shouldn't matter. They were at about 30,000 ft and the plane began falling, basically. Can you imagine what it was like in that couple of minutes?

Busy .

Yes you are correct if the plane was not shot down it should not matter who was on board. If it WAS shot down however there are several issues to begin looking at. Starting with where did this branch of ISIS (the ones who claimed to have done it) get the technology to shoot down an aircraft when all intelligence reports currently state they don't.

Where did you hear they radiod in about technical difficulties? RT is reporting that the pilots DID NOT radio about any technical difficulties and made no indications the aircraft was having trouble at all

Edited October 31, 2015 by Farmer77

[Farmer77]

18:03 GMT

The pilot of the crashed plane did not address flight operations officers at Sharm El-Sheikh International Airport before the catastrophe, said the Egyptian civil aviation minister Hossam Kamal.

“Communication between flight operations officers and [the] Russian aircraft was carried out in normal way up to the moment of the catastrophe,” he said at a press-conference in Cairo, stressing that the pilot had not asked for help and the plane “suddenly” disappeared.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Farmer77

[Farmer77]

I see, so magic glasses it is BTW - the pilots radioed a technical problem before the plane began it's plunge. Sometimes planes just...crash. Who was on board really shouldn't matter. They were at about 30,000 ft and the plane began falling, basically. Can you imagine what it was like in that couple of minutes?

Interestingly, cuz im at work and bored, I read CNN, NBC, RT Yahoo and Foxnews about the crash. Foxnews is the only one reporting what you said about the pilots reporting a technical issue with the others not mentioning it at all , and RT directly contradicting that report.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Farmer77

[EEHC]

Starting with where did this branch of ISIS (the ones who claimed to have done it) get the technology to shoot down an aircraft when all intelligence reports currently state they don't.

Qatar.

There were reports back in 2013 that Qatar shipped shoulder-fired missiles (that can be used to down an aircraft) to rebel groups in spite of the US warning to avoid delivering this kind of weapon. If and where these missiles still exist, it may not be impossible that ISIS got it's hands on some of them.

http://www.nytimes.c...es-in.html?_r=0

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sam.

[Farmer77]

Qatar.

There were reports back in 2013 that Qatar shipped shoulder-fired missiles (that can be used to down an aircraft) to rebel groups in spite of the Washington's warning to avoid delivering this kind of weapon. If and where these missiles still exist, it may not be impossible that ISIS got it's hands on some of them.

http://www.nytimes.c...es-in.html?_r=0

Iiiinteresting thanks! Lets hope Russia buys it.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Farmer77

[EEHC]

Iiiinteresting thanks! Lets hope Russia buys it.

But even with sophisticated MANPADS, it's highly doubtful that ISIS could have downed an airliner which was apparently 300,000ft in the air. It's a strange coincidence taken with Russia's recent involvement in Syria, though it's very possible they are trying to claim responsability for something they didn't do.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sam.

[+and-then]

Busy .

Yes you are correct if the plane was not shot down it should not matter who was on board. If it WAS shot down however there are several issues to begin looking at. Starting with where did this branch of ISIS (the ones who claimed to have done it) get the technology to shoot down an aircraft when all intelligence reports currently state they don't.

Where did you hear they radiod in about technical difficulties? RT is reporting that the pilots DID NOT radio about any technical difficulties and made no indications the aircraft was having trouble at all

It was an early report so I realize now that it might have been in error but here: http://www.usatoday....egypt/74934010/

"An Egyptian aviation official says the pilot of the Airbus A321 had reported technical difficulties before losing contact with air traffic controllers. Ayman al-Muqadem, a member of the Aviation Incidents Committee, said the pilot had reported his intention to attempt to land at the nearest airport.

So at least one other source besides Fox. And as Sam pointed out, manpads are not capable of hitting an aircraft at such altitude - IF it was really at 30,000 ft. There is still a lot we don't know. If ISIS shot it down - or for that matter, ANY rebel group - then Russia is only reaping the whirlwind. They cannot expect to kill these animals with impunity. I don't believe Obama has the guts to strike against Putin in such a way - he's obviously afraid of the little man... The sad thing is that he SHOULD be afraid of the Clerics in Tehran and they cause him no pause at all.

Edited October 31, 2015 by and then

[EEHC]

I don't believe Obama has the guts to strike against Putin in such a way - he's obviously afraid of the little man... The sad thing is that he SHOULD be afraid of the Clerics in Tehran and they cause him no pause at all.

Given that it was an airliner full of innocent people going back to Russia, only terrorists would do such a thing. If that's not an accident (but it seems to be the case here), the fact that the plane crashed over the Sinai Peninsula could only mean ISIS-affiliates, which are known to cause trouble in that part of Egypt.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Sam.

[+and-then]

Given that it was an airliner full of innocent people going back to Russia, only terrorists would do such a thing. If that's not an accident (but it seems to be the case here), the fact that the plane crashed over the Sinai Peninsula could only mean ISIS-affiliates, which are known to cause trouble in that part of Egypt.

If the aircraft was at 30,000 ft then no manpad I've ever heard of would reach them. Also, the wreckage was concentrated so it isn't likely there was catastrophic failure at altitude that normally accompanies such a scenario. One thing I do find odd is that when the Indonesian aircraft was shot down over Ukraine, US sources mentioned having evidence of a missile being to blame within the first few hours. Surely we have assets close enough to know if missile fire caused this. And the Russians absolutely should know.

[Shiloh17]

Here's what I think about ISIS shooting it down:

Edited November 1, 2015 by Shiloh17

[+and-then]

If the aircraft was at 30,000 ft then no manpad I've ever heard of would reach them. Also, the wreckage was concentrated so it isn't likely there was catastrophic failure at altitude that normally accompanies such a scenario. One thing I do find odd is that when the Indonesian aircraft was shot down over Ukraine, US sources mentioned having evidence of a missile being to blame within the first few hours. Surely we have assets close enough to know if missile fire caused this. And the Russians absolutely should know.

Well now they seem to be saying that this was not the case at all.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34694057 If THIS report is accurate it sounds like maybe someone's luggage exploded? Unless a real AA battery was used.

[Farmer77]

Well now they seem to be saying that this was not the case at all.

http://www.bbc.com/n...st-34694057 If THIS report is accurate it sounds like maybe someone's luggage exploded? Unless a real AA battery was used.

.

IDK why but your link wouldnt work for me. Here is my attempt at sharing it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34694057

Still a ton of scary questions.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Pan American deja vu?

[Farmer77]

Latest claims are an external force had to have brought it down. Note I said claims, who knows at this point if anything we hear on this will ever be true.

https://www.rt.com/news/320469-sinai-plane-owner-statement/

[+and-then]

If a bomb was placed on board then I hope the perp that allowed it to be loaded is found and executed. Russia may have to rethink the involvement in Syria if terror attacks spike inside Russia. Since Putin seems to be like Obama and will not admit errors it might get bad for Russians for awhile. My guess is that burying a few thousands of his citizens will seem a fair price to pay for a warm water base on the Mediterranean.

[EEHC]

Russia's stance on Assad's future seems ambiguous:

http://www.cbsnews.c...le-must-decide/

http://www.reuters.c...N0SS0TY20151103

Edited November 3, 2015 by Sam.

[ian hacktorp]

If a bomb was placed on board then I hope the perp that allowed it to be loaded is found and executed. Russia may have to rethink the involvement in Syria if terror attacks spike inside Russia. Since Putin seems to be like Obama and will not admit errors it might get bad for Russians for awhile. My guess is that burying a few thousands of his citizens will seem a fair price to pay for a warm water base on the Mediterranean.

A rather indelicate comment...even for the most ardent hasbara.

Nevertheless, the downing of a passenger jet is a desperate move; one that signals defeat. Putin knows this. As for the "perps", my guess is that when Russia gets around to identifying the responsible parties, it won't look good for the Saudi/Israeli consanguinity.

Edited November 4, 2015 by hacktorp

[+and-then]

A rather indelicate comment...even for the most ardent hasbara.

Nevertheless, the downing of a passenger jet is a desperate move; one that signals defeat. Putin knows this. As for the "perps", my guess is that when Russia gets around to identifying the responsible parties, it won't look good for the Saudi/Israeli consanguinity.

Dream on. Putin won't attack a strong leader. He would never chance trading Moscow for Tel Aviv. I doubt he will even try anything covertly against S.A. because he KNOWS they could unleash hell on his cities.

[ian hacktorp]

Dream on. Putin won't attack a strong leader. He would never chance trading Moscow for Tel Aviv. I doubt he will even try anything covertly against S.A. because he KNOWS they could unleash hell on his cities.

Putin won't need to attack. He will draw the cockroaches out into the sunlight where the world will see the truth behind their terrorism-by-proxy. Any attack (false flag or otherwise) will be merely their death-rattle.

[+and-then]

Putin won't need to attack. He will draw the cockroaches out into the sunlight where the world will see the truth behind their terrorism-by-proxy. Any attack (false flag or otherwise) will be merely their death-rattle.

Maybe you should polish his shoes while your down on the knees in from of the little man Seriously though, it's insane to be huffing and puffing about which dog is the meanest. That death rattle could literally be the whole civilized world.

[EEHC]

Syria just got more dangerous, Putin deploys air-defence systems:

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-russia-syria-missiles-20151105-story.html

Edited November 5, 2015 by Sam.

[docyabut2]

Its going to make Russia want to retaliate against these demons,and this whole state of ISIS even more.I wouldn't be supprised if they would go in Syria now and join forces with America and really bomb the hell out of them.

http://www.aol.com/a...pLid=1654158355

Edited November 5, 2015 by docyabut2

[+and-then]

Syria just got more dangerous, Putin deploys air-defence systems:

http://www.latimes.c...1105-story.html

Wild Weasels anyone? Anyone?

Vlad is putting on his stack heels

[EEHC]

Its going to make Russia want to retaliate against these demons,and this whole state of ISIS even more.I wouldn't be supprised if they would go in Syria now and join forces with America and really bomb the hell out of them.

Russia could be dragged in further in this mess like Afghanistan 1979-1989. I hope they learned their history lessons. Obama's approach seems more careful (some mistake it for complacency) but so far he's taken actions against ISIS while avoiding the US military to get sucked in too deeply in a Mid East war.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Sam.