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LucidElement

Russia in Syria

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bee

.

Will the US and Britain dare to side with Saudi Arabia and IS and against Assad and Putin?

I bloody well hope not..

.

Edited by bee

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Dark_Grey

Will the US and Britain dare to side with Saudi Arabia and IS and against Assad and Putin?

I bloody well hope not..

Sorry to disappoint, but America has turned a blind eye to Saudi Arabia's transgressions for a long time now. I'd say the alliances have all but been officially established for this precursor to WW3 whatever is going to happen post-Syria!

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Mr.United_Nations

It seems the UK might back Russia on what I read.

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odas

Nice rant. You're wrong on nearly every point.

Not a rant just frustration. I do really hope i am wrong.

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Shiloh17

I said years ago Assad wouldn't come out of power. If there were rebels attacking within Israel whom we have been allied with for decades, and we sent airpower to strike the rebels, and Russia told us to stay out, would we listen or laugh in their face?

Remember, from the very beginning we heard Assad say he was fighting terrorist. The same rebels we wanted to arm who beheaded children, who shot children lying on the dirt, killed christians, killed other sects within Islam, used gas I suspect ( to try and pin the blame on Assad) on innocents. And these were the rebels and not ISIS. If those examples are not terroristic what is? Love Assad, hate Assad. He is a better leader than what he is fighting on two fronts could ever hope to be.

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Crabby Kitten

The West is being stupid. We need to be allies with Russia and get rid of ISIS extremists.

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Space Commander Travis
Russians 'attack Syrian rebels' Warplanes have reportedly hit Syrian Free Army rather than targeting IS

Which perhaps suggests that they know what they're doing rather better than the American Government's preposterous idea that they can "target ISIS" and support the other "Rebels" at the same time. Perhaps they realise that the main priority is to stabilise the situation, which would mean tackling all the anti-Assad "Rebels". Perhaps they might even have a strategic plan rather than clinging to the fond belief that they can make any discernible difference by "taking out" the odd "ISIS Fighter" in "surgical Strikes" like America seems to believe. Perhaps they realise that it's a ruthless business, and ruthlessness is needed.

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CrimsonKing

As i writing on your status update Norbert before i noticed you deleted it lol

I never trusted those "freedom fighters" we all kept hearing about on the news,just seemed like

another western backed group to unsettle the region before coming back and biting us in the ass at a later time...

We have seen this before yet refuse to learn from our mistakes!

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Susanc241

As far as I understand the situation, Assad is only a "problem" within Syria as far as outsiders are concerned. ISIS is a threat to the whole region and possibly the whole world eventually. Why can't all the nations involved collaborate to get rid the the bigger threat (ISIS) and worry and deal with local issues (Assad) later. Though if you ask me, Hussein, Gadaffi and the like may have been tyrants in their own countries but they wouldn't have let ISIS get a foothold - doubt the geographical and political opening for it to start up would have been there anyway. Sometimes better the devil(s) you know ...................

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Frank Merton

So it appears the Russians are using ISIS as an excuse to reinforce Assad and are targeting the other rebels in Syria. I don't get it -- sounds underhanded, hypocritical (what do we expect) and stupid. Russia can't afford this, has little to gain, will make enemies all over the Muslim world on both sides of the extremes, will stimulate his own ISIS problem in his backyard -- all for a tin-pot incompetent like Assad. Sheesh.

Poverty in Russia under Yeltsin has more than doubled. I guess nowadays the levers of power, once firmly grasped, can well sustain almost any misgovernment.

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Space Commander Travis

So it appears the Russians are using ISIS as an excuse to reinforce Assad and are targeting the other rebels in Syria. I don't get it -- sounds underhanded, hypocritical (what do we expect) and stupid. Russia can't afford this, has little to gain, will make enemies all over the Muslim world on both sides of the extremes, will stimulate his own ISIS problem in his backyard -- all for a tin-pot incompetent like Assad. Sheesh.

Poverty in Russia under Yeltsin has more than doubled. I guess nowadays the levers of power, once firmly grasped, can well sustain almost any misgovernment.

Stupid? Your apparent hatred of the Russkies really seems to be coming out here. It's stupid for America to try to pretend that they can "support" the "moderate rebels" and help them defeat Assad, and, either at the same time or subsequently, then take on ISIS and defeat them. That's a stupid policy. The only possible way to any solution is to stabilise the situation, which means cooperating with, or at least not standing in the way of, Assad, and then trying to engineer some kind of diplomatic solution. Once again it only seems to be the stupid Russkies that have any grasp of the realities.
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CrimsonKing

I can see Franks side of the argument about the hate being aimed at the Russians for their efforts and have no doubt that will come to pass...

These wars are a culture clash and are being fought over much more than just lands,either we all combine our efforts to truly root out the problem and stop it...Or its about time we box countries in and say the hell with them!

The Russians are not exactly magic,their Afghan war didnt go any better than ours did as far as changing anything...

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Frank Merton

Stupid? Your apparent hatred of the Russkies really seems to be coming out here. It's stupid for America to try to pretend that they can "support" the "moderate rebels" and help them defeat Assad, and, either at the same time or subsequently, then take on ISIS and defeat them. That's a stupid policy. The only possible way to any solution is to stabilise the situation, which means cooperating with, or at least not standing in the way of, Assad, and then trying to engineer some kind of diplomatic solution. Once again it only seems to be the stupid Russkies that have any grasp of the realities.

It is a bit much to say I hate Russians because I think Putin is out of his depth -- way out. You have blinders on, I think from a not-uncommon knee-jerk hostility to all American foreign behavior.
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Frank Merton

I can see Franks side of the argument about the hate being aimed at the Russians for their efforts and have no doubt that will come to pass...

These wars are a culture clash and are being fought over much more than just lands,either we all combine our efforts to truly root out the problem and stop it...Or its about time we box countries in and say the hell with them!

The Russians are not exactly magic,their Afghan war didnt go any better than ours did as far as changing anything...

I think maybe there is a fanaticism problem with ISIS not unlike that of the militarists in Japan before WWII. Most of the population is cowed by a few ruthless radicals, and nothing but world-wide attack will remove it. The Russians are instead playing their own game (they did in WWII as well). That is no help.
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CrimsonKing

I think maybe there is a fanaticism problem with ISIS not unlike that of the militarists in Japan before WWII. Most of the population is cowed by a few ruthless radicals, and nothing but world-wide attack will remove it. The Russians are instead playing their own game (they did in WWII as well). That is no help.

I agree Frank,the way this type of problem spreads is like a Hydra.We (the world) isolate and attack one part at a time then turn around and find more trouble than we had before...

It's either all in or nothing!

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Space Commander Travis

It is a bit much to say I hate Russians because I think Putin is out of his depth -- way out. You have blinders on, I think from a not-uncommon knee-jerk hostility to all American foreign behavior.

Well, i think he's the only leader of any significant country who has any idea. You don't think Obam, who can't even control his own government, isn't out of his depth? You think he knows what he's doing more than Putin? Or cameron, his chubby little lackey? Or Harper, who tries to out-neocon the neocons in order to prove his loyalty? Do you think American foreign policy in Syria is likely to succeed? Can you identify any actual policy, come to that? Edited by Norbert the Powerful
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Frank Merton

Well, i think he's the only leader of any significant country who has any idea. You don't think Obam, who can't even control his own government, isn't out of his depth? You think he knows what he's doing more than Putin? Or cameron, his chubby little lackey? Or Harper, who tries to out-neocon the neocons in order to prove his loyalty? Do you think American foreign policy in Syria is likely to succeed? Can you identify any actual policy, come to that?

I admire Obama much more than Yeltsin. Obama runs a democratic country and in many ways has his hands tied politically. As far as I can measure Yeltsin, he is just simply corrupt and after power, having made his start in just such an environment. Of course it will be decades before this assessment will be really tested. I do think however, and repeat myself here, that your assessment is just knee-jerk and not realistic.

It is, however, all a bit academic -- the Russians are there now and other than risking world peace will have to be accommodated as much as possible. They may even get their way and reinsert Assad, at least in the areas not controlled by ISIS. That will be wrong, but lots of wrong things happen all the time. Sooner or later ISIS will either decay or be defeated, but it will take time and by a scenario that now seems out of reach.

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bmk1245

[...]

The Russians are not exactly magic,their Afghan war didnt go any better than ours did as far as changing anything...

Yeap. In Afghanistan they had helluva ground troops (more than 14000 were killed, with more than 50000 wounded), and Russkies will not send ground forces to Syria... Unless they have some magic weaponry, they'll achieve zero.

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stevewinn

Russia doing what Russia does best protecting its own foreign interests. - Its funny How Saudi and Turkey caused the utter chaos in Syria and then We- the Stupid West got involved. - Its Funny how The West approach of 4 years of utter chaos is the correct action - and Russian action is the bad approach. - This could be the ticket out for the West. Let Russia Back Assad, Let Russia bring stability to Syria or at least the conditions for Assad to gain control over the country and put the lid back on the pressure cooker. - Or is this a case of the West is always right?

Who here fancies spending countless Billions carrying out yet another Nation Building exercise in the middle east? Not me, Thank god for Russia getting involved the UK should be approaching Russia with the information we've been gathering for the last few years and wish Russia well in its endeavour. and the US, UK can concentrate our efforts in Northern Iraq/Iraq. AND while were at it tell Turkey and Saudi where to go.

Edited by stevewinn
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Mr.United_Nations

The attack on homs was an al nusra front position, rather than the FSA thatvwas reported yesterday

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rivendel

On Sept. 11, the media reported that the CIA will be delivering weapons to Assad's rebels.

CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels

https://www.washingt...f889d_story.htm

So yesterday, Russia started bombing an area saturated with Syrian rebels which also was where their headquarters was located.

So the bottom line is, this is really a proxy war between Russia and the US.

The Obama Administrations main objective is to unseat Assad.... And why is that? To prevent Putin/Russia from gaining any more influence and power in the middle east and Syria. Forget ISIS.... it's all about untoppling Assad from his throne.

Update:

Russian warplanes target insurgents in Syria but not Islamic State

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/01/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-idUSKCN0RV41O20151001

Russian jets launched a second day of air strikes in Syria on Thursday, targeting areas held by an insurgent alliance that includes a group linked to al Qaeda, but not the Islamic State militants Moscow said it had hit.

Russia said it had launched eight air strikes with Sukhoi warplanes overnight, hitting four Islamic State targets. However, the areas where it said the strikes took place are not held by Islamic State.

The bottom line? Russia's main target are the Syrian rebels that are supported and equipped by the US. ISIS is clearly NOT Russia's main target... It's the US.

Edited by rivendel
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Mr.United_Nations

Its Al Nusra Front they targeted. which seems now everyone is agreed on

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Leonardo

For information, before Russia started any missions over Syria it declared it would target ISIS, al-Qaeda and any associated 'factions'. The al-Nusra Front, which was targeted in the first Russian missions, is a known al-Qaeda affiliate, and so the Russians are targeting exactly who they said they would be. Anything else you read is propaganda spread by the Western media.

As for whether Russia are 'right' to get involved, they were invited to intercede by the legitimate and internationally recognised govt of Syria. The US, and other Western powers, only decided to recognise the Syrian National Council (based in Turkey) as a "legitimate government" in order to attempt to side-step international law which otherwise declares their intervention in Syria a war crime.

This doesn't make Russia as a political entity any "better" than the US, but it does in this instance mean they have legitimacy in undertaking military action in Syria, whereas "the West" does not.

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third_eye

At least the Russian advisory strategists seems to be better informed at the grass roots level of the goings and comings among the many factions of this mess ~ thanks much to the contributions of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden if I were to hazard a guess ... but causes much concerns detrimental to the Intelligence Operations of the other interests and strategics in the region.

~

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bee

So it appears the Russians are using ISIS as an excuse to reinforce Assad and are targeting the other rebels in Syria. I don't get it -- sounds underhanded, hypocritical (what do we expect) and stupid. Russia can't afford this, has little to gain, will make enemies all over the Muslim world on both sides of the extremes, will stimulate his own ISIS problem in his backyard -- all for a tin-pot incompetent like Assad. Sheesh.

do you think there might - - just might be an information war going on regarding all this, Frank...?

and as I said earlier we should brace ourselves for an onslaught of propaganda -

https://www.rt.com/n...ivilians-syria/

Reports of civilian casualties caused by Russia in Syria mostly originate from the Syrian opposition forces, who blame Russia for helping President Bashar Assad. Some of the photo evidence of the ‘killings by Russia’ was easily disproven. A photo of a Syrian rescue worker carrying an injured girl –resulting from a “Russian strike in Homs” that killed 33 civilians, including three children first appeared on September 25, almost a week before the airstrikes started.

Just who are the Syrian opposition forces now anyway....terrorists, Western puppets, Islamic State, mercenaries...?

.

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