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LucidElement

Russia in Syria

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NewAge1
And "bulk of the population"... Please... Who cares about "bulk of the population"...

Ask Europe and all those who will receive a flood of refugees as a result.

Edited by Draco20

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bee

Ask Europe and all those who will receive a flood of refugees as a result.

exactly

it's as if the US and Britain et al - haven't learnt a thing about the damage they are doing - not just to Iraq, Libya and Syria,

but Europe as well...

is 'destabilising' Europe part of the (ridiculous) plan...??

anyone could be forgiven for wondering if it is...

.

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bmk1245

Ask Europe and all those who will receive a flood of refugees as a result.

With 60-80% of non refugees, EU will deal with the rest, the ones that really need help and refuge.

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Phaeton80

Some more of that blatantly obvious Russian propaganda. Making all sorts of ridiculous claims like the FSA consisting of all sorts of other extremist groups, int. mercenaries.. A futile attempt to counter the most recent US allegations if I ever did see one. Thank god my home is the West.

The obvious main difference between both policies is that Russia sees 'the Assad regime' as pivotal in the stabilization efforts regarding the Syrian situation. The US, does not. Which is remarkable, given past experiences.

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NewAge1

With 60-80% of non refugees, EU will deal with the rest, the ones that really need help and refuge.

We don't need to create another refugee crisis if it can be avoided. If the regime in Damascus falls, not only will this benefit ISIS/al-Qaeda's expension first and foremost but without the basic protection offered by moderates of the Syrian Army, that means millions of people will have to flee the country to neighborhing states in the region, Europe as well as America and this will not be pretty at all. I think everyone understands that by now.

Edited by Draco20

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bmk1245

We don't need to create another refugee crisis if it can be avoided. If the regime in Damascus falls, not only will this benefit ISIS/al-Qaeda's expension first and foremost but without the basic protection offered by moderates of the Syrian Army, that means millions of people will have to flee the country to neighborhing states in the region, Europe as well as America and this will not be pretty at all. I think everyone understands that by now.

Well... Zugzwang in all glory...

OK, lets say you are a God. What you would do to resolve Syrian crisis?

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NewAge1

Well... Zugzwang in all glory...

OK, lets say you are a God. What you would do to resolve Syrian crisis?

I am all for including a moderate opposition in talks but the reality is that more than 50% of Syria is controlled by extremist groups.

I don't think the anwser is removing the Syrian regime, whose Army is actually taking the fight to these terrorists.

Edited by Draco20

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bmk1245

I am all for including a moderate opposition in talks but the reality is that more than 50% of Syria is controlled by extremist groups.

I don't think the anwser is removing the Syrian regime, whose army is actually taking the fight to these terrorists.

Heh, do you see, how you avoid straight solution, just as the leaders in the power (US, EU, Russia)?! Try again, and avoid 'I am all for' and 'I don't think', just say: I will do this, I will do that, etc...

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NewAge1

Heh, do you see, how you avoid straight solution, just as the leaders in the power (US, EU, Russia)?! Try again, and avoid 'I am all for' and 'I don't think', just say: I will do this, I will do that, etc...

There's no 'straight' solution. Syria is a mess. There is a disagreement between the West and Russia over the future of Assad that can only be resolved through negotiation with the regime and what's left of the healthy opposition. But the extremist groups have become a big problem and if the priority is to defeat them, coordinating the efforts with the Syrian Army makes a lot of sens. That's the path that Russia has decided to take. Edited by Draco20

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bee

.

they are ramping up the anti-Putin propaganda by the minute - and on Sky news just now we had a heavy dose -

what exactly has the 'West' got against Assad anyway -

it looks like they/we would rather see the country over run by extremists and millions more refugees be created than swallow their pride

and work with Russia and the Syrian Army -

.

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Lilly

Personally, I don't like any of the major players in this Syria fiasco. IMO no good will come of this regardless of who prevails.

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NewAge1

Personally, I don't like any of the major players in this Syria fiasco. IMO no good will come of this regardless of who prevails.

We have created this fiasco. While Western politicians doesn't seem to look favorably at Russia's intervention, I see it as a huge relief for us, as we have been incapable of finding a suitable force to counter Daesh and al-Qaeda on the ground and have been stuck in damage control ever since. Now after 4 years and considering what most of the opposition looks like, Assad - for all the demonization campaign against him - definitly stands out as the lesser of two evil.

Edited by Draco20
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Frank Merton

do you think there might - - just might be an information war going on regarding all this, Frank...?

and as I said earlier we should brace ourselves for an onslaught of propaganda -

https://www.rt.com/n...ivilians-syria/

Just who are the Syrian opposition forces now anyway....terrorists, Western puppets, Islamic State, mercenaries...?

.

Oh yea the disinformation campaign is in full swing.

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Frank Merton

Personally, I don't like any of the major players in this Syria fiasco. IMO no good will come of this regardless of who prevails.

"Good" rarely results from civil wars and revolution, and it takes great patience by the prevailing forces to achieve it -- something that a large part of the American public obviously lacks. Otherwise I think the Americans could do a lot of good, but not the Russians, whose motives are ignoble. I suspect though that Russia will prevail here as they don't have a fickle public back home to deal with (or one might say these elements of the public have been suppressed).

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NewAge1

"Good" rarely results from civil wars and revolution, and it takes great patience by the prevailing forces to achieve it -- something that a large part of the American public obviously lacks. Otherwise I think the Americans could do a lot of good, but not the Russians, whose motives are ignoble. I suspect though that Russia will prevail here as they don't have a fickle public back home to deal with (or one might say these elements of the public have been suppressed).

The problem, Frank, is that most of the ''moderate rebels'' have joined ISIS and al-Nusra, groups the American public wants nothing to do with.

It may have started as a positive revolution but it's no longer one. Jihadists have come out on top of the opposition with the desire of establishing an Islamic State.

Edited by Draco20

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Hammerclaw

We have created this fiasco. While Western politicians doesn't seem to look favorably at Russia's intervention, I see it as a huge relief for us, as we have been incapable of finding a suitable force to counter Daesh and al-Qaeda on the ground and have been stuck in damage control ever since. Now after 4 years and considering what most of the opposition looks like, Assad - for all the demonization campaign against his regime - definitly stands out as the lesser of two evil.

I agree. Syria is a post colonial patchwork country made up of many disparate groups and has always been held together by the peace of the gun. The rebels are not, nor do they represent

the majority of Syrians.

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Frank Merton

The problem, Frank, is that most of the ''moderate rebels'' have joined ISIS and al-Nusra, groups the American public wants nothing to do with.

It may have started as a positive revolution but it's no longer one. Jihadists have come out on top of the opposition with the desire of establishing an Islamic State.

I don't think what you say represents reality. Please provide some evidence, or is it just what you think may be the case?

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Frank Merton

I agree. Syria is a post colonial patchwork country made up of many disparate groups and has always been held together by the peace of the gun. The rebels are not, nor do they represent

the majority of Syrians.

I think they do represent the majority -- a majority that has been suppressed since WWII.

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NewAge1

I don't think what you say represents reality. Please provide some evidence, or is it just what you think may be the case?

Free Syrian Army Rebels Defect To Islamist Group Jabhat al-Nusra:

Link: http://www.theguardi...-islamist-group

Main U.S-Backed Syrian Rebel Group Disbanding, Joining Islamists:

Link: http://www.thedailyb...-islamists.html

Four Years Later, The Free Syrian Army Has Collapsed:

Link: http://www.ibtimes.c...llapsed-1847116

US-Trained Divison 30 Rebels 'Betray US And Hand Weapons Over To al-Qaeda Affiliate In Syria':

Link: http://www.telegraph...e-in-Syria.html

Edited by Draco20
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Hammerclaw

Raqqa's FSA Brigades Join Jabhat Al-Nusra

Link: http://www.syriadeep...abhat-al-nusra/

Main U.S-Backed Syrian Rebel Group Disbanding, Joining Islamists:

Link: http://www.thedailyb...-islamists.html

Ouchie! :whistle:

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Frank Merton

I am underwhelmed. Can't you produce unslanted reports? Of course it doesn't much matter -- you appear to be engaging in disinformation anyway, picking and choosing. I'm not much interested in that sort of thing.

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NewAge1

I am underwhelmed. Can't you produce unslanted reports? Of course it doesn't much matter -- you appear to be engaging in disinformation anyway, picking and choosing. I'm not much interested in that sort of thing.

I provided news reports from reputed Western sources. That's as much as the simple citizen can have access to at this point, and that's really not encouraging.

Edited by Draco20

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President-Elect Acidhead

Come on Draco! Give something for Frank to get overwhelmed with!!!! Throw him a bone for gods sake man!!!!

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Frank Merton

A professional "disinformationist" (I coin words sometimes) knows what to do, and does exactly what I've been saying -- makes statements of "fact" that are misleading if not downright untrue. When challenged they quote slanted news reports, often just propaganda sheets, and even here they both pick and choose (cherry picking) and often as not quote something that doesn't even confirm their claim.

About all an objective person can do is challenge these things, fully expecting just what we saw today. About the best I can do is form my opinions from the mainstream press, reading both the right and the left, but discrediting much of what the slanted reports contain.

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NewAge1

My views are my own and by all means feel free to disagree. I am confident however, that I have proven the accuracy of my claim with external sources as has been requested by you. There's no point calling me a 'disinformationist' because you won't accept them. May I ask, what have you provided Frank? Can you demonstrate how many ''moderate rebels'' are left fighting for non-jihadist groups in Syria? What territories they hold, ect?

Edited by Draco20

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