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LucidElement

Russia in Syria

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Frank Merton

My views are my own and by all means feel free to disagree. I am confident however, that I have proven the accuracy of my claim with external sources as has been requested by you. There's no point calling me a 'disinformationist' because you won't accept them. May I ask, what have you provided Frank? Can you demonstrate how many ''moderate rebels'' are left fighting for non-jihadist groups? What territories they hold ect?

I'm not pushing a line of propaganda. Whether you do this from your own personality or for other reasons is not for me to speculate, but I don't believe assertions, nor claims that they have been proven, when I know better. I do think distortions of the truth are part of the world's problems, though.

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Shiloh17

I think they do represent the majority -- a majority that has been suppressed since WWII.

I don't think what you say represents reality. Please provide some evidence, or is it just what you think may be the case?

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bee

Personally, I don't like any of the major players in this Syria fiasco. IMO no good will come of this regardless of who prevails.

re underlined -

does that include the United States, Lilly..?

.

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Frank Merton

I don't think what you say represents reality. Please provide some evidence, or is it just what you think may be the case?

Like what kind of evidence? I think the Shia-Sunni populations should make the point well enough, if you want to be bothered actually checking.

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Phaeton80

A professional "disinformationist" (I coin words sometimes) knows what to do, and does exactly what I've been saying -- makes statements of "fact" that are misleading if not downright untrue. When challenged they quote slanted news reports, often just propaganda sheets, and even here they both pick and choose (cherry picking) and often as not quote something that doesn't even confirm their claim.

About all an objective person can do is challenge these things, fully expecting just what we saw today. About the best I can do is form my opinions from the mainstream press, reading both the right and the left, but discrediting much of what the slanted reports contain.

What about a great 'informationist' like yourself proving the rebels do indeed have majority support amongst the Syrian people? Seems to me that if this would be the case, Assad would not have been able to maintain his position like he has.

And please, stop patting yourself on the back for basing your 'objective' opinion on the mainstream media landscape while always succesfully discrediting the 'slanted (non mainstream) reports'.. It does very little lest tickle a funnybone, given the sorry state of the fourth estate.

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Space Commander Travis

Hello everyone. I haven't bothered reading all this thread, so much anti-Russia hysteria as there no doubt has been would probably be a bit much for this time in the morning, but here's an interesting piece of information for all those of you who hate Russia and support Israel in everything they do: did you know that Israel supports Al Qaeda, and has in fact been carrying out air strikes, completely unilaterally and without reference to anyone else, on Syrian government targets in support of the Al Nusra Front, a branch of Al Qaeda? And it's these same people that the monster Putin has been attacking? I know, the usual people would simply deny this flatly, I expect Frank would say it's blinkered brainwashed ignorance, but i just thought I'd mention it.

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Space Commander Travis

I don't think what you say represents reality. Please provide some evidence, or is it just what you think may be the case?

And what do you base your opinion - sorry, not opinion, what you know to be fact on? You just know it's the truth because the American government says that the "Moderate" Rebels have a chance of defeating both ISIS and Al Qaeda and Assad, if only we just gave them enough support? And you consider that Putin's policy - that the only hope of getting any stability is by fighting all the "Rebels", not just picking and choosing which ones you think are "good" - is incoherent and shows that he's out of his depth?
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Phaeton80

Some more slanted reports filled to the very brim with disinformation..

http://www.worldtribune.com/greatest-hits-2013-nato-data-assad-winning-the-war-for-syrians-hearts-and-minds/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/09/us-syria-crisis-rebels-idUSBRE9070VV20130109

And one of the worst, most obvious disinformation sources:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-syrians-support-bashar-al-assad/5405208

Ofcourse, it is nothing but sheer luck Assad has maintained his position the last 5 years.. and every source that tells us he has significant support from the Syrian people is disinformation. Hoorah for Western maistream media!

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bee

Hello everyone. I haven't bothered reading all this thread, so much anti-Russia hysteria as there no doubt has been would probably be a bit much for this time in the morning, but here's an interesting piece of information for all those of you who hate Russia and support Israel in everything they do: did you know that Israel supports Al Qaeda, and has in fact been carrying out air strikes, completely unilaterally and without reference to anyone else, on Syrian government targets in support of the Al Nusra Front, a branch of Al Qaeda? And it's these same people that the monster Putin has been attacking? I know, the usual people would simply deny this flatly, I expect Frank would say it's blinkered brainwashed ignorance, but i just thought I'd mention it.

re underlined -

and how do YOU know that, Norbert..?

what are your sources and....let's see them

.

Edited by bee

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bee

Hello everyone. I haven't bothered reading all this thread, so much anti-Russia hysteria as there no doubt has been would probably be a bit much for this time in the morning,

actually if you had read the thread you would have seen that it is more pro the Russian involvement,

to try and sort the terrorist / Islamic State coalition out in Syria - than anti -

.

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Space Commander Travis

re underlined -

and how do YOU know that, Norbert..?

what are your sources and....let's see them

.

How did I guess you'd jump up to defend the beloved country.

Deaths reported in Israeli air strike inside Syria - Al Jazeera ...

www.aljazeera.com/.../deaths-reported-israeli-air-strike-syria-golan-heigh...


22 Aug 2015

Israeli air strikes hit Syrian military targets - The Guardian

www.theguardian.com › World › Israel


22 Jun 2014

Attacking government military targets can only benefit ISIS and Al Nusra, you must realise that.

Israel says air strike on Syrian border was targeting militants ...

www.theguardian.com › World › Syria


26 Apr 2015

And even the (govt. approved) Israeli media admits that they have been .. although of course, it's only in self defense... :innocent:

Israel Strikes Syria in Response to Rocket Fire in the North ...

www.haaretz.com › News › Diplomacy and Defense


21 Aug 2015

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Space Commander Travis

And here we have the former Israel ambassador admitting that they prefer the "Lesser of two evils" (get that, ISIS and Al Q are the lesser) in the form of the Sunnis who are fighting Assad. And why? Because the Sh'ites are supported by Iran. So it always comes back to Israel's paranoia about Iran.

Edited by Norbert the Powerful

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bee

.

@norbert

Gosh that was quick...wasn't it - well done you - and there you were going all 'this is so tedious' on us -

but then you were like a greyhound out of the traps to start slagging off the Jews..

I will have a look at your links - of course Israel is in a unique position in regards to all this and may have stupidly

been coerced by America into 'doing stuff'...dunno...I will look at your links after breakfast and see what i think :)

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Space Commander Travis

Oh ho, now it's "The Jews". Good grief, you are obssessed. Just ignore everything that anyone says if you can turn it round to "you hate the jews, na na na na na". You absolutely will not listen to anything that might portray the Beloved Country as anything less than the poor persecuted martyr, will you. Just pull out that magic word Jew and instantly shut down all argument. Well, I'm afraid it isn't so effective now.

And it's pointless to try to suggest to you that Israel, and particularly Netanyahu's Zionist government, does not automatically = The Jews.

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bee

And here we have the former Israel ambassador admitting that they prefer the "Lesser of two evils" (get that, ISIS and Al Q are the lesser) in the form of the Sunnis who are fighting Assad. And why? Because the Sh'ites are supported by Iran. So it always comes back to Israel's paranoia about Iran.

politics eh..?

International politics.......eeeehhhhhhhh

nothing is set in stone though is it - - - - - - - except your ever ready criticism of Israel

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Space Commander Travis

So basically you're just brushing aside a high up figure in the Israeli government saying that they'd prefer the Sunni extremists, as represented by ISIS and Al Qaeda (who destroyed the World trade Center and killed thousands of Americans), to win over the Shi'ites, as represented by Iran, as "politics, eh", because Israel can never be criticised.

Edited by Norbert the Powerful

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bee

Oh ho, now it's "The Jews". Good grief, you are obssessed. Just ignore everything that anyone says if you can turn it round to "you hate the jews, na na na na na". You absolutely will not listen to anything that might portray the Beloved Country as anything less than the poor persecuted martyr, will you. Just pull out that magic word Jew and instantly shut down all argument. Well, I'm afraid it isn't so effective now.

And it's pointless to try to suggest to you that Israel, and particularly Netanyahu's Zionist government, does not automatically = The Jews.

you''ll be telling us next that there are no Jews living in Israel...... :rolleyes:

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Harry_Dresden

And here we have the former Israel ambassador admitting that they prefer the "Lesser of two evils" (get that, ISIS and Al Q are the lesser) in the form of the Sunnis who are fighting Assad. And why? Because the Sh'ites are supported by Iran. So it always comes back to Israel's paranoia about Iran.

Why should this surprise you? Islamic State and the other collection of "moderate" fanatics are creatures of Israel and America. They have collaborated in this enterprise with the "hated" Arabs in the soap opera called Syria. Israel and America can switch off these medieval thugs within 24 hours if they wanted too... switching off Iran and Russia is infinitely harder. So when the Israelis and their Sunni contractors say that Islamic State is the lessor of the two evils they aren't lying.

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bee

So basically you're just brushing aside a high up figure in the Israeli government saying that they'd prefer the Sunni extremists, as represented by ISIS and Al Qaeda (who destroyed the World trade Center and killed thousands of Americans), to win over the Shi'ites, as represented by Iran, as "politics, eh", because Israel can never be criticised.

that was a bit of very undignified editing Norbert - ^_^ ***

*** reference to what I saw before the edit...

.

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Phaeton80

.

@norbert

Gosh that was quick...wasn't it - well done you - and there you were going all 'this is so tedious' on us -

but then you were like a greyhound out of the traps to start slagging off the Jews..

I will have a look at your links - of course Israel is in a unique position in regards to all this and may have stupidly

been coerced by America into 'doing stuff'...dunno...I will look at your links after breakfast and see what i think :)

Israel stupidly being coerced by the US.. somehow seems erm.. wrong to me. Oh well, guess I shouldnt read so many slanted reports.

Lets count the unprecedented number of (fanatic) standing ovations the US senate showered this foreign leader of state in, shall we?

I wonder how many of these warm applauds would be given if Obama visited the Israeli government. Id put my money on... none.

Edited by Phaeton80

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bee

Why should this surprise you? Islamic State and the other collection of "moderate" fanatics are creatures of Israel and America. They have collaborated in this enterprise with the "hated" Arabs in the soap opera called Syria. Israel and America can switch off these medieval thugs within 24 hours if they wanted too... switching off Iran and Russia is infinitely harder. So when the Israelis and their Sunni contractors say that Islamic State is the lessor of the two evils they aren't lying.

interesting analysis, thanks

International politics, unfortunately, is a dirty business at the best of times and it's about to get a whole lot dirtier, I think...

.

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Harry_Dresden

interesting analysis, thanks

International politics, unfortunately, is a dirty business at the best of times and it's about to get a whole lot dirtier, I think...

.

Dirty and interesting at the same time. They certainly are. Strange that the good guy's have switched places with the bad guy's. I think we should also add 'confusing' too.

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bee

Dirty and interesting at the same time. They certainly are. Strange that the good guy's have switched places with the bad guy's. I think we should also add 'confusing' too.

haha - yes 'dirty' can be interesting ...

as long as all our heads don't explode with the conflicting propaganda - - - - - :passifier:

It's an Orwellian nightmare for sure -

:tu:

.

Edited by bee

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Harry_Dresden

haha - yes 'dirty' can be interesting ...

as long as all our heads don't explode with the conflicting propaganda - - - - - :passifier:

It's an Orwellian nightmare for sure -

:tu:

.

Yes indeed Bee. Dirty people do seem to be the most interesting.

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Space Commander Travis

that was a bit of very undignified editing Norbert - ^_^ ***

*** reference to what I saw before the edit...

.

I notice you didn't actually reply to what I said there. Could this be because even you find this behaviour by Israel (and its main supporter the US) difficult to defend?
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