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LucidElement

Russia in Syria

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bee

I notice you didn't actually reply to what I said there. Could this be because even you find this behaviour by Israel (and its main supporter the US) difficult to defend?

You're very argumentative today, Norb -

The one-liner flame post wasn't worthy of a reply

.

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bee

.

saw this earlier -

http://www.telegraph...ks.html?ref=yfp

US wants Britain, Germany and France excluded from Syria peace talks

European countries lobby US over plan to limit Syria talks to US, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey

Even Syria (Assad) is excluded from the Syria Talks - what a farce...

.

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Deleted

.

saw this earlier -

http://www.telegraph...ks.html?ref=yfp

Even Syria (Assad) is excluded from the Syria Talks - what a farce...

.

Assad is not excluded Russia speaks on behalf of him.....

Interview with Assad

Also it seems that SA wont accept Russia`s, China's and Iran's military operation supporting Assad. UK also doesn't stop their indirect support for the rebels while the US has stopped supporting the rebels according to internet sources. SA is thinking about a military expedition into Syria against Assad according to those sources.

Edited by hellwyr
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RavenHawk

SA is thinking about a military expedition into Syria against Assad according to those sources.

Oh lovely! Wouldn't that just be par for the course. I'm telling you it's that Super Blood Moon Tetrad. This is not the time to be playing ignorant with dark energy.

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bee

Assad is not excluded Russia speaks on behalf of him.....

Interview with Assad

Also it seems that SA wont accept Russia`s, China's and Iran's military operation supporting Assad. UK also doesn't stop their indirect support for the rebels while the US has stopped supporting the rebels according to internet sources. SA is thinking about a military expedition into Syria against Assad according to those sources.

I was going to say - - and who is Saudi Arabia speaking on behalf of?

Your edit seems to indicate that they would be speaking for the Islamic State / 'rebels' and terrorist allies?

Hmmm I hope our own Cameron and Hammond see how untenable Britains position is...(and always was)

thanks for link will take a look later...

.

Edited by bee
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RavenHawk

Your edit seems to indicate that they would be speaking for the Islamic State / 'rebels' and terrorist allies?

Not necessarily. For SA, ISIS is only a means to an end. The dream for a Pan-Arabia is still in play. That means removal of all secular non-Sunni leaders.

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Deleted

I was going to say - - and who is Saudi Arabia speaking on behalf of?

Your edit seems to indicate that they would be speaking for the Islamic State / 'rebels' and terrorist allies?

Hmmm I hope our own Cameron and Hammond see how untenable Britains position is...(and always was)

thanks for link will take a look later...

.

I guess we only can speculate I don't know how reliable all those sources are including the mainstream media, we will see how it unfolds. Some things seem obvious though for example that China and Russia side with Assad, while the "west's" priority was (and maybe is) to get rid of Assad. There is a conflict of interest here it is up to the politicians to resolve that conflict or it might as well become a spiral leading into a global conflict.

Edited by hellwyr

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bee

Not necessarily. For SA, ISIS is only a means to an end. The dream for a Pan-Arabia is still in play. That means removal of all secular non-Sunni leaders.

Do you think that America has been actively helping them to create the desired Pan-Arabia?

For some reason...maybe the petro-dollar deal?

That would certainly explain the interference in Iraq, Libya and now Syria...

.

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Space Commander Travis

Also it seems that SA wont accept Russia`s, China's and Iran's military operation supporting Assad. UK also doesn't stop their indirect support for the rebels while the US has stopped supporting the rebels according to internet sources. SA is thinking about a military expedition into Syria against Assad according to those sources.

well, if that's as successful as the expedition into Yemen, I expect Assad would welcome it as yet another distraction for the K of SA to get bogged down in and have to draw on yet more from its financial reserves so it'll be heading even more on the road to bankruptcy. Maybe we're seeing the real genius of Assad here. Edited by Norbert the Powerful

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bee

I guess we only can speculate I don't know how reliable all those sources are including the mainstream media, we will see how it unfolds. Some things seem obvious though for example that China and Russia side with Assad, while the "west's" priority was (and maybe is) to get rid of Assad. There is a conflict of interest here it is up to the politicians to resolve that conflict or it might as well become a spiral leading into a global conflict.

re underlined...

like I said in my other post - could the US,....(and Britain etc) be secretly helping Saudi Arabia for undisclosed financial/political benifits -

the whole thing stinks IMO - all those people killed and displaced - countries destroyed...

to fulfill Saudi Arabian plans?

no wonder SA is getting frustrated with Russian involvement and I expect they would love there to

be an open American/Russian conflict .... this is what no-one wants...no one except SA (and other Islamic countries)

.

Edited by bee

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Space Commander Travis

re underlined...

like I said in my other post - could the US,....(and Britain etc) be secretly helping Saudi Arabia for undisclosed financial/political benifits -

the whole thing stinks IMO - all those people killed and displaced - countries destroyed...

to fulfill Saudi Arabian plans?

.

Of course, they have the "West" under their thumb just as much as another Middle Eastern state does (Whose agenda is surprisingly similar to the K of SA's.)

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Space Commander Travis

This is an article, from January but still pertinent, about that question..

Why the U.S. Is Stuck With Saudi Arabia - The Atlantic

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bee

Of course, they have the "West" under their thumb just as much as another Middle Eastern state does (Whose agenda is surprisingly similar to the K of SA's.)

well SA appears to want to take over the world (eventually) with the Global Jihad - the other group that you allude to just

want to be left alone to exist in Peace on a relatively small land mass that they are historically connected with ...

so I don't see how the agendas are similar...

.

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Space Commander Travis

Their agendas are very very similar. Top of the immediate list for both of them is to get rid of Assad, and to go on from there to do all they can to destabilize the current regime in Tehran.

Do you really believe the Beloved Country has no ambitions beyond wanting to protect itself from those who Want to Destroy It™? It may be, as those who are honest about their ambitions insist, that those ambitions are ultimately self-defensive, in that they believe they have to get rid of the Iranian "problem" before they can live in peace, but that is their ambition just the same. (And it's worth remembering that that's always been the excuse tyrants have used for attacking and over-running other countries, that it's just to ensure their security, but it's only when some countries do that that the guardians of the world's morals get outraged. It could easily be the justification, for instance, that Putin could use for over-running Ukraine, and Poland, and the baltic States, if he really was the tyrant he's made out to be. Would the West condemn him if he did that? I expect so. So would that be perfectly all right if Israel did it to Iran to guarantee their "Security"?)

Edited by Norbert the Powerful

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RavenHawk

Do you think that America has been actively helping them to create the desired Pan-Arabia?

"Actively" may be the wrong word. We are perhaps unwittingly involved. Our attempt to use our influence for change (reform) in the region is being manipulated to achieve this goal. I think that the Bush Administration was perhaps sympathetic toward this idea and intended it to occur in a peaceful manner but the Obama Administration is clueless to the dynamics going on. Everything Obama touches is deteriorating. We see this not only on the foreign stage but also domestically as unrest continues to grow. The best gun control is to get Obama out of office.

For some reason...maybe the petro-dollar deal?

For sure that is part of the tie between us but not the whole answer. We were very close to Iran and the Soviets had close ties to the Sunnis. And that changed. I think the idea of flip-flopping alliances every few generations had also fell out of favor and is viewed as being fickle which is not an attribute to have as far as influence goes. But the current President is fickle anyway and the Sauds recognize that and are doing what they are doing. Everyone is trying to get in what they can before a new Conservative President is elected. That's why I think Baghdad will fall before next November. As long as the foreign powers waste time in the air, the Sauds have the ground game.

That would certainly explain the interference in Iraq, Libya and now Syria...

I think that is just plain ineptness on Obama's part. He thinks he's made some good deals and he's acting on them, but he's only being used. Obama sees himself aligned with the Socialists and dictators and they are all laughing behind his back. By now everybody knows about this narcissistic clown. And that vacuum that was once known as American Hegemony is sucking in the Dark Energy.

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third_eye

THe plot , if there ever was one , no longer thickens and whatever strategies put in place prior to this has been torn to shreds, if there ever was an occasion for far too little into much much too late ... I hope you guys has the backbone for it all for wanting to push this all the way to the hilt ...

~ there's still some ways to go yet before any of this precipitate to any sort of a calm ...

... even Bibi 'wants' to talk to the Palestinian Authority leaders :o

bet that really made his mouth felt like the bottom of some third world prison sewer ~

`

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bee

Their agendas are very very similar. Top of the immediate list for both of them is to get rid of Assad, and to go on from there to do all they can to destabilize the current regime in Tehran.

Do you really believe the Beloved Country has no ambitions beyond wanting to protect itself from those who Want to Destroy It™? It may be, as those who are honest about their ambitions insist, that those ambitions are ultimately self-defensive, in that they believe they have to get rid of the Iranian "problem" before they can live in peace, but that is their ambition just the same. (And it's worth remembering that that's always been the excuse tyrants have used for attacking and over-running other countries, that it's just to ensure their security, but it's only when some countries do that that the guardians of the world's morals get outraged. It could easily be the justification, for instance, that Putin could use for over-running Ukraine, and Poland, and the baltic States, if he really was the tyrant he's made out to be. Would the West condemn him if he did that? I expect so. So would that be perfectly all right if Israel did it to Iran to guarantee their "Security"?)

yes I do believe Israel's over riding ambition is to be left alone to live in peace but they might get tough to achieve that,

depending on who they elect as their political leaders....

Netanyahu was in talks with Putin very recently and I expect some stuff was ironed out before Russia started the military

campaign - including stuff about Iran...?

Why you have to keep hammering away at Israel I don't know...

.

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bee

... even Bibi 'wants' to talk to the Palestinian Authority leaders :o

bet that really made his mouth felt like the bottom of some third world prison sewer ~

`

that wasn't a very nice thing to say was it....

you I mean ... not 'Bibi'....

.

Edited by bee

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third_eye

that wasn't a very nice thing to say was it....

you I mean ... not 'Bibi'....

.

You have no idea how distasteful it is to Bibi to even mention the Palestinians by name much less acknowledge their existence ~

~ edit : you might want to watch the vid of his Address at the UN ... perhaps you may not agree with my assessment ~ his face was worth a million bucks when he was saying the words ~

Edited by third_eye
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bee

"Actively" may be the wrong word. We are perhaps unwittingly involved. Our attempt to use our influence for change (reform) in the region is being manipulated to achieve this goal. I think that the Bush Administration was perhaps sympathetic toward this idea and intended it to occur in a peaceful manner but the Obama Administration is clueless to the dynamics going on. Everything Obama touches is deteriorating. We see this not only on the foreign stage but also domestically as unrest continues to grow. The best gun control is to get Obama out of office.

you really don't like Obama eh :)

but it was Bush who led the charge into Iraq on false pretenses EVEN though he knew almost certainly very quickly

after the tragic events there was some official Saudi involvement in 9/11 - work that one out...

(ie. the reacted 28 pages (and more) from the 9/11 Commission that the families of victims are trying

to get made public so they can take Saudi Arabia to court)

For sure that is part of the tie between us but not the whole answer. We were very close to Iran and the Soviets had close ties to the Sunnis. And that changed. I think the idea of flip-flopping alliances every few generations had also fell out of favor and is viewed as being fickle which is not an attribute to have as far as influence goes. But the current President is fickle anyway and the Sauds recognize that and are doing what they are doing. Everyone is trying to get in what they can before a new Conservative President is elected. That's why I think Baghdad will fall before next November. As long as the foreign powers waste time in the air, the Sauds have the ground game.

If Trump gets elected - - he has publicly stated that he approves of what Putin is doing..

not sure what his chances really are..

And if Iran and SA are going in on the ground...well we will see what happens. .

anyway it annoys me that the US make an enemy of Russia when there is no need to...

I think that is just plain ineptness on Obama's part. He thinks he's made some good deals and he's acting on them, but he's only being used. Obama sees himself aligned with the Socialists and dictators and they are all laughing behind his back. By now everybody knows about this narcissistic clown. And that vacuum that was once known as American Hegemony is sucking in the Dark Energy.

yikes

thanks for your reply...

.

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bee

You have no idea how distasteful it is to Bibi to even mention the Palestinians by name much less acknowledge their existence ~

~ edit : you might want to watch the vid of his Address at the UN ... perhaps you may not agree with my assessment ~ his face was worth a million bucks when he was saying the words ~

I watched it this morning and I think you are probably seeing what you want to see....

.

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RavenHawk

Their agendas are very very similar. Top of the immediate list for both of them is to get rid of Assad,

Seems like Putin is the only one that doesn't.

and to go on from there to do all they can to destabilize the current regime in Tehran.

And who doesn't want that? Your agendas are turning out to be common held desires by just about everybody.

Do you really believe the Beloved Country has no ambitions beyond wanting to protect itself from those who Want to Destroy It™?

They haven't shown to be anything else.

It may be, as those who are honest about their ambitions insist, that those ambitions are ultimately self-defensive, in that they believe they have to get rid of the Iranian "problem" before they can live in peace, but that is their ambition just the same.

A nation without ambition is not a nation. If it is their ambition to be left alone, that is a noble ambition. The world is not Hollywood, the good guys (white hats) in the real world don't wait for the bad guy to throw the first punch.

(And it's worth remembering that that's always been the excuse tyrants have used for attacking and over-running other countries, that it's just to ensure their security,

That's the story of history. In this sense, all leaders are tyrants. It's interesting that you want to label Netanyahu a tyrant but not Khamenei?

but it's only when some countries do that that the guardians of the world's morals get outraged.

Intent is the key. The US is the superpower at this point in time, so the outrage is our prerogative. That is the way it has always been. Would you prefer living by Russian or Chinese Hegemony? Or left to the chaos of an arms race as we saw between 1870 and 1914? It's all about choices.

It could easily be the justification, for instance, that Putin could use for over-running Ukraine, and Poland, and the baltic States, if he really was the tyrant he's made out to be.

But he is. You did watch that clip of his interview. Making it sound that America's actions in the Middle East are unjustified as if he and his actions have been totally innocent. His tactic is like that of Obama, he separates himself from an event and acts like he's enraged with the rest of us. He's just playing the game and satisfying his ambition to reconstitute the old Empire. The problem in the past for previous Soviet leaders has been the inability to control the soft underbelly of Russia which is the Middle East. Putin is just protecting his flank so that he can concentrate on regaining the ex-Soviet Republics. Can you not see the writing on the wall?

Would the West condemn him if he did that? I expect so. So would that be perfectly all right if Israel did it to Iran to guarantee their "Security"?)

His intent is clear and the West does, but the West is showing itself to be weak so there is nothing to stop him. Ukraine or Poland haven't shown any intent to invade or destroy Russia. Iran has threatened time and time again to destroy Israel. So has Hamas and Hezbollah. I think that Israel has every right to remove these threats.

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third_eye

I watched it this morning and I think you are probably seeing what you want to see....

.

yeah ... I guess we kinda do things like that , other than those such as yourself ~

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bee

yeah ... I guess we kinda do things like that , other than those such as yourself ~

well you've got three eyes so you do it more than me.... :P

.

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third_eye

well you've got three eyes so you do it more than me.... :P

.

well I do keep an eye out ... you know just in case :D

~ *derail alert* ~ deterrent sequencing commence ~

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