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LucidElement

Russia in Syria

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Space Commander Travis

that wasn't a very nice thing to say was it....

you I mean ... not 'Bibi'....

.

Oh dear, people are being nasty and cruel to Bibi now? The man is vile, a liar, a hypocrite, a fraud and a monster.
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bee

Oh dear, people are being nasty and cruel to Bibi now? The man is vile, a liar, a hypocrite, a fraud and a monster.

LOL...takes one to know one.....

as they say

.

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Space Commander Travis

....

His intent is clear and the West does, but the West is showing itself to be weak so there is nothing to stop him. Ukraine or Poland haven't shown any intent to invade or destroy Russia. Iran has threatened time and time again to destroy Israel. So has Hamas and Hezbollah. I think that Israel has every right to remove these threats.

Like NATO really hasn't put "defensive" missiles right on Russia's borders, has it. Like it hasn't indulged in the most provocative militaristic sabre-rattling close enough to Russia's borders that you could spit at them. Like Dr Strangelove, Supreme NATO Commander, wouldn't like to press the button right now and turn Moscow into smoking ash if only those darn politicians weren't such cowardly liberal pussycats.

The extent to which you delude yourself is really quite dazzling.

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Space Commander Travis

LOL...takes one to know one.....

as they say

.

Oh right, now we know where we are. I'm a liar, a fraud and a hypocrite then. Go on then, why exactly? i thought, according to you, I never made any secret of my hatred of the Jews.

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Space Commander Travis

Tell me, bee, is there anything at all that Israel could do or say that you would say was too much, or even was a bit out of order? is anything at all - even supporting what its own puppy, the US Government, has described as the greatest danger the world faces, that could shake you out of this adoration for Bibi Netanyahu and his Zionist regime?

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bee

.

@norbert...I'm sorry Mr Strawman...you and your jew-bashing is not what I want to focus on at the moment :/

.

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RavenHawk

you really don't like Obama eh

No I don't. I don't think I've hated anyone as much as I hate Obama. And let's get this out of the way. It has nothing to do with his race. He is as phony as the day is long. If you've heard me say this once, you've heard me say it many times. I voted against this guy twice. Not for the color of his skin but because of the content of his character.

In the movie "JFK", you see the reaction of some people that hated Kennedy when he was assassinated. And it was truly distasteful to me that people could hate a President like that. I couldn't understand that but everything changes. Yes, he was a Democrat but you knew he loved this country and had the best interests of this nation at heart. That has been the case with every President up till today. The Presidents between JFK and now, may have made mistakes, or were misguided, or whatever, but you knew they were doing their best. And because of that, a love or respect grew. That is not the case with this current Administration. And if some mishap were to befall him, it would be good riddance. He has over stayed his welcome.

Obama could come to my home and spend hours personally trying to convince me that he loves this nation and would fail in doing so. I see through his façade. As a baby, if someone of poor character held me, my mom told me that I would spit on them. Well, I'm still doing it today but rhetorically. How much I wish to be a baby again and be held by Obama. :)

but it was Bush who led the charge into Iraq on false pretenses

Not *false* pretenses but *hyped* pretenses would be better?? The invasion of Iraq was very necessary as it would have given us the needed leverage against both Iran *AND* Saudi Arabia. It was a perfect situation and it didn't matter how we got there. Yes, there were WMD but they were in the form of the power that Saddam wielded. Like the desert he was from, they were intermitted by nature. If Carter had only supported the Shah, we wouldn't be in this situation today. If Obama had kept a presence of troops in Iraq, we wouldn't have this situation today. Russia would not be in Syria and ISIS would not be entrenched. When are we going to learn and stop being PC?!

EVEN though he knew almost certainly very quickly

after the tragic events there was some official Saudi involvement in 9/11 - work that one out...

(ie. the reacted 28 pages (and more) from the 9/11 Commission that the families of victims are trying

to get made public so they can take Saudi Arabia to court)

I don't think it was that easy. The Saud family is very large. As strict as they are even amongst themselves, they can't police everyone. The Wahabbists are a faction that could easily bring down the House of Saud. I think the King just looks the other way too many times to placate them. I think the King is intent on reforms but to insure stability, reforms take a long time. Taking the Sauds to court wouldn't go anywhere. It would be there for a while.

If Trump gets elected - - he has publicly stated that he approves of what Putin is doing..

not sure what his chances really are..

I think if Trump was elected, he and Putin would hit it off so well, that they'd be drinking buddies. That's one main reason I like Trump. There'd be so many beer summits that they'd have to restrict them to one a year. Beer Summit 2017 would be bigger than the Olympics in Sochi. It'd become a national holiday in both countries.

And if Iran and SA are going in on the ground...well we will see what happens. .

That's where the action is. Iran already has influence in 5 Sunni nations or entities. The ball is now in SA's court. That's why I think Baghdad is close to falling. The air war is just a distraction.

anyway it annoys me that the US make an enemy of Russia when there is no need to...

I agree. It's time that the Bear and the Eagle become allies. But that will unleash our ambitions. If these two things occur (Trump becomes President and we become allies with Russia), I don't think Assad will have long on the throne. China, the Middle East, and Europe would start sweating. Israel would be safe.

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RavenHawk

Like NATO really hasn't put "defensive" missiles right on Russia's borders, has it. Like it hasn't indulged in the most provocative militaristic sabre-rattling close enough to Russia's borders that you could spit at them. Like Dr Strangelove, Supreme NATO Commander, wouldn't like to press the button right now and turn Moscow into smoking ash if only those darn politicians weren't such cowardly liberal pussycats.

The extent to which you delude yourself is really quite dazzling.

Firstly, I wouldn't talk about delusional if I were you.

Secondly, let's back up for one moment. Why would NATO have such a desire to put missiles on Russia's border in the first place? If you want provocative, then think Georgia, Ukraine, threatening fuel supplies, and naval exercises just outside territorial waters of other nations for starters.

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RavenHawk

Tell me, bee, is there anything at all that Israel could do or say that you would say was too much, or even was a bit out of order?

Tell you what, let Israel say or do whatever, then we can comment on it. Then you might have a leg to stand on.

is anything at all - even supporting what its own puppy, the US Government, has described as the greatest danger the world faces, that could shake you out of this adoration for Bibi Netanyahu and his Zionist regime?

Because you hate Jews more than Yamato, that comment is understandable. The adoration of Bibi is all yours. He is just a good leader that Israel needs right now. You're the one making him into some god. And I'd take a Zionist regime over an Islamic one any day. Do you not understand that Zionism is just the Jewish version of Manifest Destiny on a land that was left open by war?

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President-Elect Acidhead

.

@norbert...I'm sorry Mr Strawman...you and your jew-bashing is not what I want to focus on at the moment :/

.

If Norbert was simply bashing jews he would be bashing the six million who don't live in Israel.

It's you Bee, who raises the strawman argument by implying over and over criticism of Israel = anti-Semitism.

But in your defense you more than likely don't even realize you see the world this way as do most in western culture.

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bee

If Norbert was simply bashing jews he would be bashing the six million who don't live in Israel.

constantly trying to weaken the Jewish Homeland through writing posts - is in a sense bashing all the Jews who don't live their as well..

It's you Bee, who raises the strawman argument by implying over and over criticism of Israel = anti-Semitism.

he makes provocative remarks to try and goad and twist the debate....

But in your defense you more than likely don't even realize you see the world this way as do most in western culture.

and in your defense - criticizing Israel seems to be a knee jerk reaction that you can't control...

:)

anyway this is getting way off topic - thanks to Norbert -

.

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President-Elect Acidhead

constantly trying to weaken the Jewish Homeland through writing posts - is in a sense bashing all the Jews who don't live their as well..

:)

anyway this is getting way off topic - thanks to Norbert -

.

By this logic: To criticise Saudi Arabia or Iran is to criticise muslims who dont live there???? really????

Also... you made a choice to reply to Norbert.... thank yourself as well.

Edited by acidhead
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bee

By this logic: To criticise Saudi Arabia or Iran is to criticise muslims who dont live there???? really????

Israel is in a particularly unique situation with it's history and geographical position -

.

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bee

.

aaaaanyway - more on topic - the propaganda machine is infecting all the main stream media here...

even local radio stations manage to pop in a bit of anti Russia propaganda...in their news slots..

Finally someone is really tackling the Islamic State / so called rebels / terrorist coalition group...in Syria

But...but.... we are being brainwashed to believe is that Russia is targeting civilians and the mythical moderate 'rebels'..

Politicians and commentators who are conning the public quite deliberately should be ashamed of themselves...

IMO

.

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Harry_Dresden

.

aaaaanyway - more on topic - the propaganda machine is infecting all the main stream media here...

even local radio stations manage to pop in a bit of anti Russia propaganda...in their news slots..

Finally someone is really tackling the Islamic State / so called rebels / terrorist coalition group...in Syria

But...but.... we are being brainwashed to believe is that Russia is targeting civilians and the mythical moderate 'rebels'..

Politicians and commentators who are conning the public quite deliberately should be ashamed of themselves...

IMO

.

Yeah they should be. Amazing that the U.S. and it's "anti-ISIS" alliance have performed 7000 sorties against ISIS and along comes Russia, and their 40 bombing missions and everyone is screaming blue murder you're killing our, now wait for it... "moderate" Islamic allies. If these "moderate" Islamic allies are so moderate then way is everyone fleeing Syria?

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Harry_Dresden

Israel is in a particularly unique situation with it's history and geographical position -

.

They are unique and deserving of a lot of latitude when it comes to defending their state but something tell's me that Israel is not an innocent bystander in all this.

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Black Red Devil

Firstly, I wouldn't talk about delusional if I were you.

Secondly, let's back up for one moment. Why would NATO have such a desire to put missiles on Russia's border in the first place? If you want provocative, then think Georgia, Ukraine, threatening fuel supplies, and naval exercises just outside territorial waters of other nations for starters.

Delusional? In case you haven't figured it out. Russia is the big yellow one and all the blue dots are NATO basis. But you must be right, they're probably pointing the missiles southwards, towards that warmongering nation, Israel.

1bqFaoP.jpg

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Harry_Dresden

Firstly, I wouldn't talk about delusional if I were you.

Secondly, let's back up for one moment. Why would NATO have such a desire to put missiles on Russia's border in the first place? If you want provocative, then think Georgia, Ukraine, threatening fuel supplies, and naval exercises just outside territorial waters of other nations for starters.

Washingtons objective is to pull Russia into its sphere of influence. What better way than to encroach into Russia's sphere of influence. Remember reading about the Cuban missile crises? Well it's not much different to what's happening now. In fact it's uncanny.

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Black Red Devil

No I don't. I don't think I've hated anyone as much as I hate Obama. And let's get this out of the way. It has nothing to do with his race. He is as phony as the day is long. If you've heard me say this once, you've heard me say it many times. I voted against this guy twice. Not for the color of his skin but because of the content of his character.

I thought you would have loved Obama's neocon policies of muscling up against Assad by supporting and supplying the rebels (who turned into ISIS)? What went wrong?

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Black Red Devil

Not *false* pretenses but *hyped* pretenses would be better?? The invasion of Iraq was very necessary as it would have given us the needed leverage against both Iran *AND* Saudi Arabia. It was a perfect situation and it didn't matter how we got there. Yes, there were WMD but they were in the form of the power that Saddam wielded. Like the desert he was from, they were intermitted by nature. If Carter had only supported the Shah, we wouldn't be in this situation today. If Obama had kept a presence of troops in Iraq, we wouldn't have this situation today. Russia would not be in Syria and ISIS would not be entrenched. When are we going to learn and stop being PC?!

No, false pretenses and you can be in eternal denial as much as you want, it won't change a thing. It started in 2003 and Bush was in power until 2009. He had 6 years and left with the place in perennial turmoil and you have the hide to blame Obama, LOLOLOL, what a joke. Bush brought war to a country for no reason which costed (by some sources) over a million lives. Out of this, 4,400 US soldiers died and over 30,000 wounded. Simple facts.

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Deleted

Actually it seems that the objective is to weaken Russia and China, but probably mainly Russia: First the USA focuses on Russia's allies or countries which have/had an interest in alining with Russia and breaking the US`s world-status (Lybia), Syria (RU ally), Iran (RU ally), Iraq (good ties with Russia), Ukraine (wanted to join Russian Economy Union prior the coup d'état). But there is also another hidden objective; by destabilizing Ukraine they poisoned the relations between Germany (EU) and Russia, they created some sort of march in Ukraine, which acts as an artificial hindrance between Germany and Russia.

The destabilization in Ukraine and Afghanistan both happened at Russian`s border, which also must be taken into account. The USA doesn't want to lose her status as superpower which controls the global politics and she apparently does anything to keep it.

I want to add that Russia properly would do the same if she was in the same position as the USA. Anyway Russia and China are obviously challenging the USA and the USA cant (dont want to) accept a world where there are various global players and not just herself who dictates everything.

Edited by hellwyr
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Black Red Devil

They are unique and deserving of a lot of latitude when it comes to defending their state but something tell's me that Israel is not an innocent bystander in all this.

It also must be said that a lot of their latitude in defending their State came via the means of billions of US dollars each year in Military Aid in the last 40-50 years. Feel proud, their resilience is also thanks to your tax contributions.

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Harry_Dresden

I thought you would have loved Obama's neocon policies of muscling up against Assad by supporting and supplying the rebels (who turned into ISIS)? What went wrong?

Obama is just an executive in charge of the Greater Middle East project. It's ongoing and from what i read organic with a life of its own. They foster the conditions and if they take root they support it. Syria should have been solved 4 years ago and saved the people of Syria alot of grief and heartache, instead it became a cruel work in progress. If the West is losing Syria it's by there own making. Hillary is right to state that a no fly zone should be in place over Syria BUT only 4 years too late.

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Harry_Dresden

It also must be said that a lot of their latitude in defending their State came via the means of billions of US dollars each year in Military Aid in the last 40-50 years. Feel proud, their resilience is also thanks to your tax contributions.

Yes but in all fairness, with out those billions Israel would have been wiped off the map. The Jews deserve to live in their ancestral lands in peace and prosperity. And i would feel proud that if my tax dollars found their way to Israel it would be to stop another holocaust. My issue is that I'm just annoyed with all the skullduggery and deception going on. You turn on the telly and all they do is repeat the same nonsensical anti Assad propaganda. Even the Israeli leaders are unconvincing when they state their case for more war to remove a tyrant so Islamic headcutters can take over.

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Black Red Devil

Actually it seems that the objective is to weaken Russia and China, but probably mainly Russia: First the USA focuses on Russia's allies or countries which have/had an interest in alining with Russia and breaking the US`s world-status (Lybia), Syria (RU ally), Iran (RU ally), Iraq (good ties with Russia), Ukraine (wanted to join Russian Economy Union prior the coup d'état). But there is also another hidden objective; by destabilizing Ukraine they poisoned the relations between Germany (EU) and Russia, they created some sort of march in Ukraine, which acts as an artificial hindrance between Germany and Russia.

The destabilization in Ukraine and Afghanistan both happened at Russian`s border, which also must be taken into account. The USA doesn't want to lose her status as superpower which controls the global politics and she apparently does anything to keep it.

I want to add that Russia properly would do the same if she was in the same position as the USA. Anyway Russia and China are obviously challenging the USA and the USA cant (dont want to) accept a world where there are various global players and not just herself who dictates everything.

I don't believe Russia nor China want hegemony. Maybe some old heads from the Soviet Politburo days may still have dreams of grandeur but definitely China doesn't, at least not militarily. IMO this isn't a direct Russia/China vs US/West scuffle and won't escalate (I hope) into any major war. It's more of a show of support for their allies. I suppose Putin got sick of many years of western interference and decided to do something for his Shiite friends. Also, it helps take away the focus on the Ukraine.

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